Chelsea Sack Graham Potter

[thevelourfog]

Just now, Trini_Blue said:

You must be living in a bubble and excluding all the social media stuff.

Death threats against him and his family. Calling for him to be fired. Labeling him the worst manager in the club's history. Par for the course, right?

We'll agree to disagree. 

Do you go to games at all regularly? I only ask because I think you mentioned watching games in an American timezone. If so, you're really not well placed to be telling anyone commenting on the atmosphere around the club that they're "in a bubble".

There's been one game where there's really been palpable ill feeling in the stadium and it wasn't explicitly directed at Potter, so in the places it really matters it really isn't at the same venom Benitez received. I'd be very surprised if it ever matches it.

[Trini_Blue]

2 hours ago, Bert19 said:

He shouldn't be trying to keep everyone happy though.  There are some (like Ziyech and Pulisic) that clearly think they are above Chelsea and want out.  So separate them and anyone else that doesn't want to be here next year and focus on those that do have a future here. And drop those that aren't performing - to show that sub-standard isn't going to be accepted. 

It's not like that they have outstanding transfer value anyway, everyone has watched them play over the last few years has seen we overpaid. 

Well you mentioned the drop in transfer value when you take courses of action like that.

And I also do wonder what happens in terms of contracts when such actions are taken. In an ideal world, you separate the ones you want to work with for 6 months from the ones you don't want to work with. But what about the HR aspect?

What happens if you can't agree a deal with the purchasing clubs in the summer, or if the player himself doesn't want to accept a lesser wage and can't agree personal terms?

I'm not sure how well a player will take it to be basically pushed out the door like that when they've got a contract in place.

[Trini_Blue]

Just now, thevelourfog said:

Do you go to games at all regularly? I only ask because I think you mentioned watching games in an American timezone. If so, you're really not well placed to be telling anyone commenting on the atmosphere around the club that they're "in a bubble".

There's been one game where there's really been palpable ill feeling in the stadium and it wasn't explicitly directed at Potter, so in the places it really matters it really isn't at the same venom Benitez received. I'd be very surprised if it ever matches it.

A frankly moronic view. If only this was the 1960s and people couldn't see all the games on TV or gauge the atmosphere around an organization using social media platforms from actual supporters. 

I'm sure the atmosphere must be great around Potter right now. He doesn't look like he's under severe pressure at all. Right? I mean, it's not like he's spoken about it? 

Are you part of that "true" category of supporters able to share an opinion because you attend games regularly? I only ask because, well, I want to.

But then again, surely I shouldnt be entitled to have an opinion if I don't pay for a ticket, right? 

Oh, and I'll respond how I please to someone replying to my post. The question is, why have you reared your head? 

[thevelourfog]

16 minutes ago, Trini_Blue said:

A frankly moronic view. If only this was the 1960s and people couldn't see all the games on TV or gauge the atmosphere around an organization using social media platforms from actual supporters. 

I'm sure the atmosphere must be great around Potter right now. He doesn't look like he's under severe pressure at all. Right? I mean, it's not like he's spoken about it? 

Are you part of that "true" category of supporters able to share an opinion because you attend games regularly? I only ask because, well, I want to.

But then again, surely I shouldnt be entitled to have an opinion if I don't pay for a ticket, right? 

Oh, and I'll respond how I please to someone replying to my post. The question is, why have you reared your head? 

I didn't say the bold bit, so you're arguing with a "moronic" point of your own imagining. And if you don't like someone on a public forum replying to a public post you've made, then try out the private message function.

Very simply, there has not been anything close to "venom" towards Potter from match going supporters in grounds. Things seem at a very early stage there, and I am genuinely interested to see if it ramps up on Saturday. That was my point, and the point I read in the post you replied to. I can tell you this because I go to the games. It doesn't qualify me as a "true' fan who has greater entitlement to an opinion. But it does qualify me as a firsthand witness, something even the most dedicated fan not at games just plainly is not. No matter how much that seems to upset you. Home fans, in particular, just don't really do "venom". There isn't enough atmosphere at all for that. This is a "social media platform" and I'm an "actual supporter" (whatever that means) telling you that. 

Weird you'd get so arsey so quickly on being at all challenged when you're clearly comfortable telling people how they perceive things isn't correct. Dial it down, no one here is pulling the "true fan" card.

Edited February 28, 2023 by thevelourfog

[martin1905]

27 minutes ago, Trini_Blue said:

You must be living in a bubble and excluding all the social media stuff.

Death threats against him and his family. Calling for him to be fired. Labeling him the worst manager in the club's history. Par for the course, right?

We'll agree to disagree. 

Well, I don't see them as proper fans so probably best to leave it there.

[Max Fowler]

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Max Fowler

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, boratsbrother said:

Maybe I'm losing the plot? but I still want Potter to be given a summer to work with the players in a much smaller squad and with the addition of a new CF and creative midfielder. Give him 10 games next season to show some real signs of improvement.

Without Tuchel's points we would be in the relegation zone right now. That tells you all you need to know.

[Max Fowler]

Another "scheduled day off" training this week... 😑

[Trini_Blue]

9 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

I didn't say the bold bit, so you're arguing with a "moronic" point of your own imagining. And if you don't like someone on a public forum replying to a public post you've made, then try out the private message function.

Very simply, there has not been anything close to "venom" towards Potter from match going supporters in grounds. Things seem at a very early stage there, and I am genuinely interested to see if it ramps up on Saturday. That was my point, and the point I read in the post you replied to. I can tell you this because I go to the games. It doesn't qualify me as a "true' fan who has greater entitlement to an opinion. But it does qualify me as a firsthand witness, something even the most dedicated fan not at games just plainly is not. No matter how much that seems to upset you. Home fans, in particular, just don't really do "venom". There isn't enough atmosphere at all for that. This is a "social media platform" and I'm an "actual supporter" (whatever that means) telling you that. 

Weird you'd get so arsey so quickly on being at all challenged when you're clearly comfortable telling people how they perceive things isn't correct. Dial it down, no one here is pulling the "true fan" card.

I generally get "arsey" with people who like to pretend that they've got a "real" finger on the pulse - especially when they're so often widely off the mark.

If you think Potter is under pressure because of the match going fans, you must really be in a bubble too. Because the matchgoing fans aren't the source of venom I referred to. I guess you were wide off the mark yet again? And clearly they aren't the ones seemingly that Potter referred to (hopefully).

Is it possible in this day and age that people can be exposed to hateful messages outside of the 40-odd thousand fans attending games? Like, from the media perhaps? Social media? Emails? Do you even watch the press conferences with him? Did you see how he responded to the questions Matt Lawton (?) put forward to him?

Oh, and someone doesn't need to attend games regularly to know that Stamford Bridge lacks an atmosphere. Try watching a game on TV once. It could be a remarkable experience for you.

As you're so regularly at games, and you've got a real finger on the pulse, maybe you can try to validate my point more often? It's generally lovely reading your accurate opinions and being lectured by you..

[ROTG]

3 hours ago, Phoenix Blue said:

The other feeling I and I am sure many of you have is the sense of resignation and a shrugging of shoulders after a match result, something I do not remember since the seventies. It is very worrying.

1988 relegation by the play-off to middlesborough was a real kick in the teeth

[Mark Kelly]

7 minutes ago, ROTG said:

1988 relegation by the play-off to middlesborough was a real kick in the teeth

Imagine, being relegated because you couldn't score goals when it mattered, thank goodness all that is behind us now. 

[Max Fowler]

 

 

[thevelourfog]

10 minutes ago, Trini_Blue said:

I generally get "arsey" with people who like to pretend that they've got a "real" finger on the pulse - especially when they're so often widely off the mark.

If you think Potter is under pressure because of the match going fans, you must really be in a bubble too. Because the matchgoing fans aren't the source of venom I referred to. I guess you were wide off the mark yet again? And clearly they aren't the ones seemingly that Potter referred to (hopefully).

Is it possible in this day and age that people can be exposed to hateful messages outside of the 40-odd thousand fans attending games? Like, from the media perhaps? Social media? Emails? Do you even watch the press conferences with him? Did you see how he responded to the questions Matt Lawton (?) put forward to him?

Oh, and someone doesn't need to attend games regularly to know that Stamford Bridge lacks an atmosphere. Try watching a game on TV once. It could be a remarkable experience for you.

As you're so regularly at games, and you've got a real finger on the pulse, maybe you can try to validate my point more often? It's generally lovely reading your accurate opinions and being lectured by you..

Jesus, being disagreed with isn't that big a deal. It's kind of what a forum is for. Very odd to get so angry about being "lectured" while so obviously lecturing.

The post we're replying to is about there not being the same venom towards Potter as there had been towards Benitez. It isn't. Not at the ground, but also not online. Because Chelsea supporters, on the whole (in the stands and online), hated Benitez. The man, not the coach. I don’t think you would particularly need your "finger on the pulse" to see the very plain fact that Potter does not attract the same level of hatred or ire, certainly not on the same majority level. Many think he's too nice, or out of his depth or (and this is the worst criticism I've seen or heard anywhere, albeit sometimes worded ... more harshly, shall we say) an incompetent chancer, but there's definitely no majority hatred of him. And as much as you don't like this, the stands simply are a better barometer of this than the internet. You buy a ticket and go to Stamford Bridge, the overwhelming likelihood is you're a dedicated Chelsea supporter. Any dickhead can fire off an abusive email. How do we know the people making death threats are even Chelsea supporters? Did I claim at any point Potter wasn't getting stick online?

If you want to argue with a position you're imagining I have, go ahead. I'll leave you to it from now on.

 

[thevelourfog]

2 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

 

Interesting, because it's clear these owners have a very different relationship with the press to Abramovich. They seem much more willing to feed stories to the press and to want to control the public narrative rather than just stonewall. I can genuinely believe they're testing out responses.

[Mark Kelly]

TB - Things aren't looking great Graham if things don't improve within the next three seasons we're going to have to rethink your bonus. 

GP - Bold move boss, now can you get off my reiki mat there's a queue forming for some home style GP pastoral care. 

[Mark Kelly]

[chara]

Anthony Barry...from where I am he has a low profile so I looked a bit closer.

When he arrived at Chelsea I recall he came with a good coaching reputation as reported but I knew nothing else about him apart from a journeyman playing career.

(I don't equate playing careers with good/bad coaching ability)

I have no idea how involved he is with the GP "plan" but part time International Coach with Belgium and now Portugal ?

Strange arrangement...can anybody enlighten me with any other info?

Could no worse as an interim than anybody else and what we have ain't working.

[Bob Singleton]

6 minutes ago, chara said:

Anthony Barry...from where I am he has a low profile so I looked a bit closer.

When he arrived at Chelsea I recall he came with a good coaching reputation as reported but I knew nothing else about him apart from a journeyman playing career.

(I don't equate playing careers with good/bad coaching ability)

I have no idea how involved he is with the GP "plan" but part time International Coach with Belgium and now Portugal ?

Strange arrangement...can anybody enlighten me with any other info?

Could no worse as an interim than anybody else and what we have ain't working.

Wasn't he brought in as a 'specialist' set-piece coach originally?

[Mark Kelly]

1 minute ago, Bob Singleton said:

Wasn't he brought in as a 'specialist' set-piece coach originally?

Working well then. 

[chara]

8 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

Wasn't he brought in as a 'specialist' set-piece coach originally?

I seem to remember something like that,,,but it's the part time elsewhere issue I was puzzled about..plus everything else as discussed on here!

[JaneB]

2 hours ago, Trini_Blue said:

A frankly moronic view. If only this was the 1960s and people couldn't see all the games on TV or gauge the atmosphere around an organization using social media platforms from actual supporters. 

I'm sure the atmosphere must be great around Potter right now. He doesn't look like he's under severe pressure at all. Right? I mean, it's not like he's spoken about it? 

Are you part of that "true" category of supporters able to share an opinion because you attend games regularly? I only ask because, well, I want to.

But then again, surely I shouldnt be entitled to have an opinion if I don't pay for a ticket, right? 

Oh, and I'll respond how I please to someone replying to my post. The question is, why have you reared your head? 

Look, it's genuinely great to have new members on here who are contributing a lot of posts, but not with added personal insults.  They just don't add anything to the debate and, as I always say, we are all Chelsea supporters aren't we?  

Thanks.

[Bob Singleton]

7 minutes ago, chara said:

I seem to remember something like that,,,but it's the part time elsewhere issue I was puzzled about..plus everything else as discussed on here!

Part time with Rep of Ireland, then Belgium during the WC and - now that Martinez has become Portugal coach - he's a part-time assistant to the Portuguese NT. Not really anything odd about that. Quite a lot of assistants to national teams work full time at clubs. After all, senior club football stops for internationals, and the major finals are during the close season (last WC notwithstanding), so from a timing perspective, there's often no conflict. I also imagine that clubs see their staff being involved at international level as bringing kudos to the club, as well as potentially useful in learning new ideas that the club could implement going forward.

I know everyone likes to take the p**s out of Martinez, but Anthony Barry must have something about him to have worked with two NTs and about to do so with a third. I recall Tuchel praising him, too.

As an assistant to Potter now, I guess he has to go along with Potter's methods, but that doesn't mean that if he were to get the job on an interim basis we wouldn't see something very different. What his 'vision' is, though, is anyone's guess as he's not given many interviews (unsurprisingly) and never really been alone in charge of a team.

[Bob Singleton]

31 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Working well then. 

That's assuming that Potter hasn't decided that the players don't need specialist coaching, of course. I recall a few new routines when he first came in. Not sure why we're now so poor. Is he to blame, or has the boss decided not to bother?

[chara]

8 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

Part time with Rep of Ireland, then Belgium during the WC and - now that Martinez has become Portugal coach - he's a part-time assistant to the Portuguese NT. Not really anything odd about that. Quite a lot of assistants to national teams work full time at clubs. After all, senior club football stops for internationals, and the major finals are during the close season (last WC notwithstanding), so from a timing perspective, there's often no conflict. I also imagine that clubs see their staff being involved at international level as bringing kudos to the club, as well as potentially useful in learning new ideas that the club could implement going forward.

I know everyone likes to take the p**s out of Martinez, but Anthony Barry must have something about him to have worked with two NTs and about to do so with a third. I recall Tuchel praising him, too.

As an assistant to Potter now, I guess he has to go along with Potter's methods, but that doesn't mean that if he were to get the job on an interim basis we wouldn't see something very different. What his 'vision' is, though, is anyone's guess as he's not given many interviews (unsurprisingly) and never really been alone in charge of a team.

Thanks Bob..appreciate that breakdown...I had thought along the same lines regarding working with NT's but no real info.

"Something different" is what we need ..no idea if AB can provide that.

[Mark Kelly]

15 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

That's assuming that Potter hasn't decided that the players don't need specialist coaching, of course. I recall a few new routines when he first came in. Not sure why we're now so poor. Is he to blame, or has the boss decided not to bother?

Well, judging by everything else...