Chelsea Sack Graham Potter

[chara]

14 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Another myth cooked up by the press to protect GP. 
 

Agree but why?...Having "backed" GP as the next coming in the EPL and Pep mk2 I can only assume it's to save face or try to show a relevance.

As far as I can see hardly anyone on here has any real belief that GP is making progress or shows any signs of being a viable Chelsea winning coach...the best backing as far as it appears to me is to give him time.

Over simplification but from the grass roots upwards every successful side has a system aligned with the players available..it's not Rocket Science.

 

 

[xceleryx]

3 hours ago, chara said:

Agree but why?...Having "backed" GP as the next coming in the EPL and Pep mk2 I can only assume it's to save face or try to show a relevance.

As far as I can see hardly anyone on here has any real belief that GP is making progress or shows any signs of being a viable Chelsea winning coach...the best backing as far as it appears to me is to give him time.

Over simplification but from the grass roots upwards every successful side has a system aligned with the players available..it's not Rocket Science.

To earn time there surely needs to be some sort of progression being made, right?  

That's what I sort of struggle with when taking a view to Potter's time here. I can understand it's been a less than ideal season for various reasons, not all of which are in control of the manager. At the same time you still expect whoever is in charge to be making more of what's on hand, and at least demonstrating encouraging signs that provide belief more positive things are to come.  I'm still waiting to see that and we're heading towards the last 10 games of the seasons - surely a concern? 

Maybe once we trim the fat off the squad, bring in a couple of players in positions of significant need, we'll finally see a few things fall into place. Right now though it's tough to envision when a substantial portion of what's let us down this season falls at the feet of the manager and his decisions. 

[Willian Dollar Baby]

On 13/03/2023 at 14:17, Willian Dollar Baby said:

It hurts more because given the money in the PL its highly likely he will end up at Liverpool or Spurs over the next few years. I'm hoping Nagelsman gets the boot at Bayern so TT can go there. Incedentally I think Nagelsman could then be a great option for us! 

I'm shocked it happened so quickly. Earlier this week I was becoming resigned to TT ending up at Spurs following Contes outbursts. 

Whilst it still hurts to see him moving on to Bayern, I'm very pleased TT has not landed in the PL at this stage. I think we should go all out for Nagelsman now as he's a very good manager and Spurs will be all over this already. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Willian Dollar Baby

[Miguelito07]

52 minutes ago, Willian Dollar Baby said:

I'm shocked it happened so quickly. Earlier this week I was becoming resigned to TT ending up at Spurs following Contes outbursts. 

Whilst it still hurts to see him moving on to Bayern, I'm very pleased TT has not landed in the PL at this stage. I think we should go all out for Nagelsman now as he's a very good manager and Spurs will be all over this already. 

I have a really bad feeling that we will stick with Potter for next season. 

[Willian Dollar Baby]

57 minutes ago, Miguelito07 said:

I have a really bad feeling that we will stick with Potter for next season. 

On the plus side our Technical Director Christopher Vivell worked with Nagelsmann at both Leipzig and Hoffenheim, albeit Vivell was only a scout with the latter.  Whilst previously there was no clear candidate to replace Potter,  this could be the kind of opportunity that forces Boehlys hand. 

[martin1905]

2 hours ago, Willian Dollar Baby said:

I'm shocked it happened so quickly. Earlier this week I was becoming resigned to TT ending up at Spurs following Contes outbursts. 

Whilst it still hurts to see him moving on to Bayern, I'm very pleased TT has not landed in the PL at this stage. I think we should go all out for Nagelsman now as he's a very good manager and Spurs will be all over this already. 

I never thought he would end up at Tottenham, he's absolute elite and said at the time of his sacking he would end up at one of the elite clubs and no suprise he has. 

I have no doubt the club will be assessing their options for the summer, absolutely no doubt and whilst none of the obvious candidates may have been what we were looking for, for various reasons, the perfect man has just become available. He ticks literally every single box for us.

He can not end up at Tottenham whilst we amble along with Potter before the inevitable. I think the new owners will be rubbing their hands together waiting for it all to be official before they act and expect them to act swiftly. They must not let this opportunity pass us by.

[McCreadie]

1 minute ago, martin1905 said:

I never thought he would end up at Tottenham, he's absolute elite and said at the time of his sacking he would end up at one of the elite clubs and no suprise he has. 

I have no doubt the club will be assessing their options for the summer, absolutely no doubt and whilst none of the obvious candidates may have been what we were looking for, for various reasons, the perfect man has just become available. He ticks literally every single box for us.

He can not end up at Tottenham whilst we amble along with Potter before the inevitable. I think the new owners will be rubbing their hands together waiting for it all to be official before they act and expect them to act swiftly. They must not let this opportunity pass us by.

I think Potter is starting next season. I also think we are going to be drawing a lot of games between now and the end of this season.

[chrisb]

With the £23 million it cost to buy out GP and his staff’s Brighton contracts plus however much it would cost to get rid of them all I can’t really see them going anywhere anytime soon.

Serious question here, if we were to get rid of them all does the money spent come under FFP rules?

[Willian Dollar Baby]

7 minutes ago, chrisb said:

With the £23 million it cost to buy out GP and his staff’s Brighton contracts plus however much it would cost to get rid of them all I can’t really see them going anywhere anytime soon.

Serious question here, if we were to get rid of them all does the money spent come under FFP rules?

Yeah this might be a problem. We spent a fortune getting him out of Brighton and it will cost us more to buy him out his 5 year contract.

Roman wouldn't have hired Potter, wouldn't have given a manager a 5 year contract and would have sacked him about about 3 times over by now. The long term contracts might be good for FFP but are very expensive when they go wrong. We learned this when Malouda, Essien ect were on high wages well into their 30s and we couldn't get rid. This is why we started only offering 1 year deals for 30+ players! 

I suspect as time goes on Boehly will have to re-learn some of these lessons and we will adapt. 

[martin1905]

25 minutes ago, McCreadie said:

I think Potter is starting next season. I also think we are going to be drawing a lot of games between now and the end of this season.

Will be disastrous.

One bad season can be written off but if we go into next season with him in charge we can kiss goodbye any chance of getting back into Europe. It then becomes a very slippery slope.

21 minutes ago, chrisb said:

With the £23 million it cost to buy out GP and his staff’s Brighton contracts plus however much it would cost to get rid of them all I can’t really see them going anywhere anytime soon.

Serious question here, if we were to get rid of them all does the money spent come under FFP rules?

The implications of finishing mid table and no Europe year on year far outweigh the cost of sacking him sooner rather than later.

Also Nagelsmann is rumoured to be on fairly low wages, could offset some of the cost of sacking Potter by bringing him in on similar terms, around £5m a year if what's written about their contracts have any truth. 

 

[McCreadie]

27 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Will be disastrous.

One bad season can be written off but if we go into next season with him in charge we can kiss goodbye any chance of getting back into Europe. It then becomes a very slippery slope.

 

 

If we were to improve enough to win half of our 8 drawn games, we end up miraculously, pretty close to top 4. That is not an impossible idea, even after this woeful season. 

 

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, chrisb said:

With the £23 million it cost to buy out GP and his staff’s Brighton contracts plus however much it would cost to get rid of them all I can’t really see them going anywhere anytime soon.

Serious question here, if we were to get rid of them all does the money spent come under FFP rules?

on the other hand, 23m vs losing two seasons of CL money using the assumption he fails miserably next season, and the club misses the top 4 again.

[Mark Kelly]

3 hours ago, ROTG said:

on the other hand, 23m vs losing two seasons of CL money using the assumption he fails miserably next season, and the club misses the top 4 again.

How do you think a coach who'd seen his side drop to second place in the league , who's journalist girlfriend was leaking line ups to the press , then decides to go skiing in the International break would go down with TB considering that's exactly what Nagelsmann  has just done. I think he'd rather take his chances with GP 

[McCreadie]

4 hours ago, ROTG said:

on the other hand, 23m vs losing two seasons of CL money using the assumption he fails miserably next season, and the club misses the top 4 again.

The assumption should probably be that Nkunku, Gusto and a DM and maybe a ST added to this squad will be able to achieve a few more wins than we have managed this season. Because we are only talking about a few more wins.  As a quick example:

Spurs H

Southampton H

Everton H

One of the Fulham games

Forest A

All games where a relatively small improvement would have delivered wins. 12 points gone missing there. There are others...

We would be 4th, level with Utd. I'm sure a few could argue the toss about some of these individual games, but my point is that it is not that massive a leap for us to take, despite how terrible this season has been.

I've deliberately not factored in that Potter might improve things. Happy to just accept that is something that quite a few are not willing to entertain. Personally, I would still rather see him turn it around than not.

[martin1905]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

How do you think a coach who'd seen his side drop to second place in the league , who's journalist girlfriend was leaking line ups to the press , then decides to go skiing in the International break would go down with TB considering that's exactly what Nagelsmann  has just done. I think he'd rather take his chances with GP 

I guess it would go down a lot better than seeing his side drop to 10th.

[Mark Kelly]

10 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

I guess it would go down a lot better than seeing his side drop to 10th.

Second in a two horse race I should have said. 

Newcastle have gone to Dubai during the International break, can you imagine this forum if our coach has gone skiing? 

[martin1905]

9 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Second in a two horse race I should have said. 

Newcastle have gone to Dubai during the International break, can you imagine this forum if our coach has gone skiing? 

Think that's a bit of a smokescreen Mark , no way he would have gone without the club knowing, whatever they claim.

I think it boils down to them wanting Tuchel,  who could blame them, and he wasn't willing to wait.

And personally I wouldn't care if Potter went away on an international break, I mean what is he supposed to do when 90% of the squad is away. 

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by martin1905

[Max Fowler]

Weirdly now Tuchel has gone I'm largely patient with Potter.
Was a long period of grief and struggling to accept the loss of TT.
Now I am not really bothered who we have in charge and trust the owners.
If we go on another terrible run surely Potter should be fired.
But if our results stay mixed I am happy now to see where this goes.
Potter won't destroy the dressing room and maybe we are building something.
Even if he doesn't take us all the way he might be right for this transition period.

[martin1905]

16 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Weirdly now Tuchel has gone I'm largely patient with Potter.
Was a long period of grief and struggling to accept the loss of TT.
Now I am not really bothered who we have in charge and trust the owners.
If we go on another terrible run surely Potter should be fired.
But if our results stay mixed I am happy now to see where this goes.
Potter won't destroy the dressing room and maybe we are building something.
Even if he doesn't take us all the way he might be right for this transition period.

When did the terrible run stop?

 

 

[Max Fowler]

7 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

When did the terrible run stop?

 

 

I mean - we've won 3 of our last 4. 

Didn't watch Everton but you might have expected any manager to draw a game here or there.

Apparently Potter blew it with subs - in which case that might be more of a cause for concern.

I still think Boehly blew it with Tuchel but we are where we are now.

I don't have any particular connection to Nagelsmann or other options so I am open to what happens.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Max Fowler

[chara]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

Weirdly now Tuchel has gone I'm largely patient with Potter.
Was a long period of grief and struggling to accept the loss of TT.
Now I am not really bothered who we have in charge and trust the owners.
If we go on another terrible run surely Potter should be fired.
But if our results stay mixed I am happy now to see where this goes.
Potter won't destroy the dressing room and maybe we are building something.
Even if he doesn't take us all the way he might be right for this transition period.

Surely Max that is supporting a default position?

Mixed results are what mid table sides survive on,

As pointed out when did the terrible run end?...three out of four sounds good but against who? only one "good" result and as ever it's more than just the points..welcomed as they are.

There is no "transition" evident..new players are just that.

Accept mid table security and mediocre football if anyone wants to..let GP show us what he can do. Obviously the last six months have been a bedding in process and the tactic is to lull the rest of the EPL into false confidence.

 

[thevelourfog]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

And personally I wouldn't care if Potter went away on an international break

Me neither, it's the coming back after that would bother me.

[boratsbrother]

From  Claudio Catuogno -  journo for Munich based daily paper Suddeutsche Zeitung

Nagelsnann is a fickle and moody character who annoys his players. There's also this comment "One couldn't really tell whether Nagelsnann was a footballing teacher or a celebrity for the tabloid columns anymore."

 

Be careful what you wishes for guys and gals!

[ROTG]

9 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

How do you think a coach who'd seen his side drop to second place in the league , who's journalist girlfriend was leaking line ups to the press , then decides to go skiing in the International break would go down with TB considering that's exactly what Nagelsmann  has just done. I think he'd rather take his chances with GP 

When have i written about Nagelsmann replacing Potter?

Next.

[ROTG]

8 hours ago, McCreadie said:

The assumption should probably be that Nkunku, Gusto and a DM and maybe a ST added to this squad will be able to achieve a few more wins than we have managed this season. Because we are only talking about a few more wins.  As a quick example:

Spurs H

Southampton H

Everton H

One of the Fulham games

Forest A

All games where a relatively small improvement would have delivered wins. 12 points gone missing there. There are others...

We would be 4th, level with Utd. I'm sure a few could argue the toss about some of these individual games, but my point is that it is not that massive a leap for us to take, despite how terrible this season has been.

I've deliberately not factored in that Potter might improve things. Happy to just accept that is something that quite a few are not willing to entertain. Personally, I would still rather see him turn it around than not.

Good Points, however, your math's take into account the points won by TT. Strip them away and look directly at Potter then his PL form at Chelsea Played 21, Points 28 which is a ~50-point season.

In order to qualify for CL next season Potter would need to improve the team by ~24 points which equates to a minimum of 8 additional wins for a total of 74 points which is probably good enough for 4th.

Which begs the question which i have asked from day one of his appointment, does anyone believe the media hyped Potter can coach a team to 74points in a season and +85 points to have a chance of winning the league. It worth bearing in mind the dippers, Newcastle, Spuds, Arse, ManUre, and Chitty will be strengthening their squads over the summer.