Chelsea Sack Graham Potter

[kev61]

On 22/03/2023 at 22:43, xceleryx said:

 Right now though it's tough to envision when a substantial portion of what's let us down this season falls at the feet of the manager and his decisions. 

Really?.All we need to do is give the manager more time?.

He has a multi million array of talent before him and he can't even make a baby step that will give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[xceleryx]

38 minutes ago, kev61 said:

Really?.All we need to do is give the manager more time?.

He has a multi million array of talent before him and he can't even make a baby step that will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Didn't I say we should give him more time, although I do think he'll get it. 

Irrespective of ones opinion on Potter (and I didn't want him hired in the first place for what it's worth), you can't deny that this season hasn't been turbulent from the very beginning which hasn't helped.

A better manager would've done a bit better but we'd still be in the shit. I said this season would be rough even under Tuchel, you could see it from a mile away and it's why I predicted we'd finish anywhere between 3rd and like 7th depending how things faired. We've obviously fallen further than that, but again isn't a surprise. 

I think the players hold a level of responsibility, namely those who've now been here several years and haven't stepped up in our time of need, but Potter also has his share of the blame through straight up naive management. 

[kev61]

12 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

 

I think the players hold a level of responsibility, namely those who've now been here several years and haven't stepped up in our time of need, but Potter also has his share of the blame through straight up naive management. 

Agree.We will see Tuchel getting the best out of Munich(you can quote me on that).Potter v Tuchel  God help us.

[thevelourfog]

5 hours ago, xceleryx said:

A better manager would've done a bit better but we'd still be in the shit. 

Yes and no. A "bit better" would still be absolutely miles of where we want to (and on spending, really should) be, I'd agree. But look at the table. A "bit better" is all it would have taken this season to qualify for next year's CL and have that important income and clout.

I think even an only slightly different manager would have had very significant, positive, impact on this season and what it means for next season. It's essentially why Potter is looking, to me, a complete disaster. 

[My Blood Is Blue]

Potter isn’t going anywhere soon, for whatever reason, the owners are fully backing him and I worry that will mean he’ll get the pre-season and the start of the next. I think it’s massively the wrong decision, the guy just is not cut out for the level we want to be playing at.

Nagelsmann has apparently said he’d be interested in talking to Spurs about becoming their manager. Absolutely no idea if that’s true or not, but the Chelsea owners should be all over him.

If we go into next season with Nahelsmann as the manager of an opposing PL club whilst we still have Potter, then you have to seriously question the owner’s understanding of the situation we’re in.

My biggest concern at this point is how far this period under him is going to set us back. 

[xceleryx]

43 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Yes and no. A "bit better" would still be absolutely miles of where we want to (and on spending, really should) be, I'd agree. But look at the table. A "bit better" is all it would have taken this season to qualify for next year's CL and have that important income and clout.

I think even an only slightly different manager would have had very significant, positive, impact on this season and what it means for next season. It's essentially why Potter is looking, to me, a complete disaster. 

A "bit better" is a pretty generalised expression to be fair. Maybe as you said it would've meant possibly being closer to qualifying for the Champions League next season. It could also resemble results still being similar to what we're seeing but the nature of our performances looking more promising, and so on. 

Do think we'd be in a better position with Tuchel opposed to looking miles away under Potter. Ultimately though, I'm not shocked we've been this bad either.

[Box of Tricks]

While he's in the chair, he has to be braver. Being cowardly means results like Everton happen and they completely change the mood.

However, I fear that even if we maintain periods of better form (from here on in), we're already in a trap like United were in with Solskjaer. As in, not quite a good enough manager to turn us into a serious contender, but not bad enough to be booted out.

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

If we go into next season with Nahelsmann as the manager of an opposing PL club whilst we still have Potter, then you have to seriously question the owner’s understanding of the situation we’re in.

I believe it is Ted Lasso's last season as coach of Richmond FC

I'll get my coat.

Edited March 25, 2023 by ROTG

[Blue Moon]

Ted had Beard. And Roy. Just saying…

[Ham]

28 minutes ago, ROTG said:

I believe it is Ted Lasso's last season as coach of Richmond FC

I'll get my coat.

I gave up on that program in season 2 which was quite possibly the worst series in the entire history of TV.

It was as if they had picked a different writer for each episode and locked each of them in separate rooms until they had 10 separate scripts to act out. 

 

 

[thevelourfog]

5 minutes ago, Ham said:

It was as if they had picked a different writer for each episode and locked each of them in separate rooms until they had 10 separate scripts to act out.

Executive Producer: Graham Potter

[McCreadie]

8 hours ago, ROTG said:

Which begs the question which i have asked from day one of his appointment, does anyone believe the media hyped Potter can coach a team to 74points in a season and +85 points to have a chance of winning the league.

I don’t think top 4 next season is beyond him. 85+ is hard to imagine from where we sit, but I imagine literally 100% of Arsenal supporters would have said the same about Arteta 12 months ago

[martin1905]

7 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Potter isn’t going anywhere soon, for whatever reason, the owners are fully backing him and I worry that will mean he’ll get the pre-season and the start of the next. I think it’s massively the wrong decision, the guy just is not cut out for the level we want to be playing at.

Nagelsmann has apparently said he’d be interested in talking to Spurs about becoming their manager. Absolutely no idea if that’s true or not, but the Chelsea owners should be all over him.

If we go into next season with Nahelsmann as the manager of an opposing PL club whilst we still have Potter, then you have to seriously question the owner’s understanding of the situation we’re in.

My biggest concern at this point is how far this period under him is going to set us back. 

I've read a lot about Tottenham wanting him but nothing about him being interested.  It sounds like he wants some time out which makes sense at this stage of the season. Come the summer there's a fair chance Tottenham, Madrid, PSG and Chelsea will be looking for a new manager and he will be number one target for all of them.

It's why we should act immediately and sack Potter now to make sure we get him. If nothing else tap him up now to ensure he comes in the summer.

If he goes to Madrid or PSG I wouldn't have a problem but he must not be allowed to go to Tottenham whilst we continue with Potter only for the inevitable to happen half way through the season.

[ROTG]

6 hours ago, McCreadie said:

I don’t think top 4 next season is beyond him. 85+ is hard to imagine from where we sit, but I imagine literally 100% of Arsenal supporters would have said the same about Arteta 12 months ago

12 months ago Arteta finished on 69 pts only 6 points off the top 4. So top 4 was a realistic target. Getting to +80 is a bonus, however I doubt any Arse fan thought that at was achievable at the beginning of the season or did they have thought two of the top four clubs were going to be so bad this season. 
 

like the GP optimism for next season, and should it happen there will be plenty with egg on on their faces. However reality says it will not happen. 

[chara]

1 minute ago, ROTG said:

12 months ago Arteta finished on 69 pts only 6 points off the top 4. So top 4 was a realistic target. Getting to +80 is a bonus, however I doubt any Arse fan thought that at was achievable at the beginning of the season or did they have thought two of the top four clubs were going to be so bad this season. 
 

like the GP optimism for next season, and should it happen there will be plenty with egg on on their faces. However reality says it will not happen. 

If I am wrong I will for once be very very pleased...BUT.......

[Bob Singleton]

4 hours ago, martin1905 said:

I've read a lot about Tottenham wanting him but nothing about him being interested.  It sounds like he wants some time out which makes sense at this stage of the season. Come the summer there's a fair chance Tottenham, Madrid, PSG and Chelsea will be looking for a new manager and he will be number one target for all of them.

It's why we should act immediately and sack Potter now to make sure we get him. If nothing else tap him up now to ensure he comes in the summer.

If he goes to Madrid or PSG I wouldn't have a problem but he must not be allowed to go to Tottenham whilst we continue with Potter only for the inevitable to happen half way through the season.

Can't say I was a huge fan of Naglesmann prior to his sacking by Bayern, and nothing in this article has made me change my mind. He may well be an upgrade on Potter, but he's still several rungs below what we require.

He just seems like another Potter in terms of not having a defined style, but rather changing formations on a game-by-game basis depending on the opposition - the difference between the two being that Potter seems to want to be everyone's friend, whilst Naglesmann doesn't seem to care who he pisses off within the squad.


https://theathletic.com/4344068/2023/03/25/julian-nagelsmann-future-club-tottenham-psg-real-madrid-chelsea/

[Michael Tucker]

1 hour ago, Bob Singleton said:

Can't say I was a huge fan of Naglesmann prior to his sacking by Bayern, and nothing in this article has made me change my mind. He may well be an upgrade on Potter, but he's still several rungs below what we require.

He just seems like another Potter in terms of not having a defined style, but rather changing formations on a game-by-game basis depending on the opposition - the difference between the two being that Potter seems to want to be everyone's friend, whilst Naglesmann doesn't seem to care who he pisses off within the squad.
 

Pretty much says it all really!

We need a head coach  who has a defined style, and who doesn't indulge in constant chopping and changing. I'm pretty sure that we have enough good players, so let's stick with the one's who appear to care.

[JaneB]

7 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

Pretty much says it all really!

We need a head coach  who has a defined style, and who doesn't indulge in constant chopping and changing. I'm pretty sure that we have enough good players, so let's stick with the one's who appear to care.

Well that narrows it down 😞

[Michael Tucker]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

Just because he adapts the formation from game to game and often during a game does not mean there is no system or style of play. 

Isn't this what Potter has been doing? Seriously?

[kev61]

2 hours ago, martin1905 said:

Doesn't have a defined style? Must be joking Bob. All his teams have played a very similar way, regardless of formation.

Just because he adapts the formation from game to game and often during a game does not mean there is no system or style of play. 

He's been phenomenal at all three clubs he's been at. What he did at Hoffenheim was outrageous taking them from 17th to 4th,and 3rd the next season, their highest ever finish and first time ever in the champions league.

His Leipzig team was brilliant to watch and he took them to the semi finals of the champions league, before him they had never got out the group stage, and they were one of the best teams in Europe that year.

His record at Bayern is pretty much identical to Peps.

He is able to adapt to what he's got or what the opposition have, which is the complete opposite of Potter and is tactically very astute, again the polar opposite of Potter and improves players, once  again.......

The difference between the two are night and day, they are incomparable. 

 

Then why did Bayern sack him?.I admit I nothing about him,but I think our loss is Bayern's gain.

I think Tuchel has the respect among the Bayern's hierarchy.

If I was a betting man(which I am) I would a put few quid on Bayern winning the champions league.

 

[martin1905]

4 hours ago, kev61 said:

Then why did Bayern sack him?.I admit I nothing about him,but I think our loss is Bayern's gain.

No idea but it's not like clubs haven't sacked managers before when they shouldn't have, I mean look at the man who's replacing him........

Nagelsmann's overall record at Bayern for what it's worth.

P80 W640 D14 L10

Scored 255 goals which is an average of over 3 goals a game.

He averaged 2.31 ppg

Win ratio of 71%

This season he has P37 W27 D7 L3 have scored 112 goals. In the champions League they are 8 wins out of 8, scored 21 conceded 2.

His record is phenomenal it's literally identical to Peps when he was there. Then there is what he did at Hoffenheim, at the age of 28. Kept  them up from 2nd bottom with 14 games to go then finished 4th and 3ts the two following seasons. 

It's quite clear they have not sacked him for footballing reasons and if we are concerned by the fact that he has been sacked then we won't hire any manager as they've all been sacked at some point. He obviously isn't what Bayern want, for whatever reason but that doesn't mean he's not the right fit for us. Quite clearly we will have to do our due diligence on him but every manager will have baggage from somewhere and who are the alternatives?

4 hours ago, kev61 said:

I think Tuchel has the respect among the Bayern's hierarchy.

If I was a betting man(which I am) I would a put few quid on Bayern winning the champions league.

 

Kev, I'm a massive Tuchel fan, was one of his most vocal supporters on here so your not gonna get any argument from me about how great he is and how scandalous his sacking was. 

 

[kev61]

18 hours ago, martin1905 said:

 

Kev, I'm a massive Tuchel fan, was one of his most vocal supporters on here so your not gonna get any argument from me about how great he is and how scandalous his sacking was. 

 

I know what you'r saying Martin.Since Potter was installed I find myself reminiscing  on Tuchel.

I'm one who criticised Tuchel but then I think of the joy he brought us.Winning the CL and outclassing Madrid and Man City on the way was mind blowing.

Now we have a PE  teacher in charge of multi millionaire players... god help us.

[xceleryx]

On 26/03/2023 at 13:25, kev61 said:

Then why did Bayern sack him?.I admit I nothing about him,but I think our loss is Bayern's gain.

There's been a few reasons crop up, not all have been on pitch related. I know Nagelsmann leaving his wife and then dating a reporter for Bild (basically the German Sun) caused a few issues, especially with rumours of information being leaked. He's butted heads in the dressing room with some key figures of the side - Neuer after he broke his leg skiing for example. His methods of training are said to have not been received well either.

How much of this is true enough to where it factored into the decision to sack him is anyones guess. Seems to have taken a lot of Bayern fans by surprise. 

My personal feeling is that the leaking of information to Bild, such as tactics for the Bochum game recently, may have had the biggest impact in all of this and caused such a knee jerk response from a board that's usually quite concise with their moves. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by xceleryx

[Ham]

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

There's been a few reasons crop up, not all have been on pitch related. I know Nagelsmann leaving his wife and then dating a reporter for Bild (basically the German Sun) caused a few issues, especially with rumours of information being leaked. He's butted heads in the dressing room with some key figures of the side - Neuer after he broke his leg skiing for example. His methods of training are said to have not been received well either.

How much of this is true enough to where it factored into the decision to sack him is anyones guess. Seems to have taken a lot of Bayern fans by surprise. 

My personal feeling is that the leaking of information to Bild, such as tactics for the Bochum game recently, may have had the biggest impact in all of this and caused such a knee jerk response from a board that's usually quite concise with their moves. 

Could be that they've had their eye on Tuchel for a while, saw problems mounting at Spurs and jumped before Levy could. 

 

[xceleryx]

3 minutes ago, Ham said:

Could be that they've had their eye on Tuchel for a while, saw problems mounting at Spurs and jumped before Levy could. 

Wouldn't be shocked by this either, he was arguably the best manager on the market and the opportunity may have been too good to pass up on.

As I said before, Bayern don't usually make rash decisions so you'd have to believe there was some prolonged thought behind the move.