Chelsea Sack Graham Potter

[Bison]

4 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I don't think we're that good.

Clearly. But we're being made even worse by Potter. That is now undeniable. 

[Holymoly]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

He's been around for years now and his record is phenomenal. 

Really? What's he won apart from the league with Bayern when even Potter could have achieved that. Possibly. Maybe.

[Thiago97]

Nagelsmann has a feeling of Potter MKII to me. I don’t want a young relatively inexperienced manager in and I don’t think it will be of any benefit to the players. Nagelsmann maybe a very good manager, but I’m a little tired of style over substance.

We need an experienced manager who will have these players coached and organised in a more pragmatic sense, but also who will improve the players and return the club to being hard to beat.

Plenty of options out there…..Enrique, Mancini, Poch, Deschamps, Conte.

I’d take any of these 5 over Nagelsmann right now. That just does not feel a good fit to me.
 

 

[thevelourfog]

lol, I've never watched a Bundesliga game in my life. I'm not on Twitter or Instagram, and I don't subscribe to any football media or podcasts. Basically, I go to our games, watch maybe 5-10 PL or CL games we're not in a year and read the BBC gossip page.

I've known of Nagelsmann for about 7 years. So weird that not having even the most basic football knowledge is something to try and leverage in an online argument.

[martin1905]

2 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

Really? What's he won apart from the league with Bayern when even Potter could have achieved that. Possibly. Maybe.

Nothing.

Have a look at what he did at Hoffenheim, at the age of 28/29, take a look at his record at Leipzig and watch some of their matches, look at his record at Bayern which is identical to Peps. 

[Bob Singleton]

11:00am and he still hasn't been sacked yet 😟

[thevelourfog]

3 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Nagelsmann has a feeling of Potter MKII to me. I don’t want a young relatively inexperienced manager in and I don’t think it will be of any benefit to the players. Nagelsmann maybe a very good manager, but I’m a little tired of style over substance.

We need an experienced manager who will have these players coached and organised in a more pragmatic sense, but also who will improve the players and return the club to being hard to beat.

Plenty of options out there…..Enrique, Mancini, Poch, Deschamps, Conte.

I’d take any of these 5 over Nagelsmann right now. That just does not feel a good fit to me.
 

 

Agree with the line of thinking, just not all of the names. I think we do need someone whose strengths are pragmatic and concrete. Someone who puts the cones out, demands players train to drill and makes them do it again, and again, and again until they get it right and are doing it without being reminded. We need that much, much more than we need someone more aspirational, whose ideas are more abstract. We had that person. It would somewhat worry me that the club who've just moved Nagelsmann on did so to bring in that very coach.

[thevelourfog]

7 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

11:00am and he still hasn't been sacked yet 😟

He isn't going to get sacked. He hasn't been sacked for almost exactly this performance and result on multiple occasions already, and those times our position in the league was more precarious. There's no one to come in as an interim* from within, and there's a game on Tuesday.

I don't personally think they'll sack him in May even, but I reckon there's basically no chance it will be before then.

*There's an idea ... Anthony, how do you fancy acting up for the next 7 weeks?

Edited April 2, 2023 by thevelourfog

[ROTG]

8 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

Really? What's he won apart from the league with Bayern when even Potter could have achieved that. Possibly. Maybe.

So funny and wrong.

it about a coach coming to a club and putting the club in an upward trajectory from day one, once it Plato’s or goes south you replace.  

Chelsea history supports the philosophy under RA and maybe BM like many other clubs are using that model. 

[Mark Kelly]

5 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

He isn't going to get sacked. He hasn't been sacked for almost exactly this performance and result on multiple occasions already, and those times our position in the league was more precarious. There's no one to come in as an interim from within, and there's a game on Tuesday.

I don't personally think they'll sack him in May even, but I reckon there's basically no chance it will be before then.

I don't think they care about public opinion , he's here for the long run , if it takes him ten years to turn it around then that's how long they'll give him.

Boehly is a bigger idiot than Potter and that has to be recognised .

[martin1905]

18 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Nagelsmann has a feeling of Potter MKII to me. I don’t want a young relatively inexperienced manager in and I don’t think it will be of any benefit to the players. Nagelsmann maybe a very good manager, but I’m a little tired of style over substance.

We need an experienced manager who will have these players coached and organised in a more pragmatic sense, but also who will improve the players and return the club to being hard to beat.

Plenty of options out there…..Enrique, Mancini, Poch, Deschamps, Conte.

I’d take any of these 5 over Nagelsmann right now. That just does not feel a good fit to me.
 

 

Agree with the sentiment, don't agree with the Potter comparison though. Like chalk and cheese.

Biggest problem with what you say is the people you list that are most likely the people we could bring in other than Enrique I wouldn't go anywhere near them.

 

[Holymoly]

14 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Nagelsmann has a feeling of Potter MKII to me.

I agree. Potter became the rent boy of the media for a year or so before we "snapped him up". The club clearly believed the hype and I feel that Nagelsmann may well be the same. He's had a good year or so (albeit at better clubs than Potter) but he's too young to be able to project that level of performance forward. He may well be that good, or he may just have had one of the best periods of his overall career. I don't think we can risk a similar scenario in consecutive seasons. Hell's teeth I'd even welcome Jose back for one season just to get the squad back onside and firing then get rid of him before the rot sets in.

[ROTG]

4 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

I don't personally think they'll sack him in May

You are right. 
More than likely after CL exit. Especially the pl results against the dippers, wolves are not positive. 
 

if I was a betting man of the above turns out to be reality and then lose to Brighton will be the end of team GP. 

[Holymoly]

12 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Someone who puts the cones out, demands players train to drill and makes them do it again, and again, and again until they get it right and are doing it without being reminded.

I agree totally however after the laissez faire attitude that Potter appears to exude on the training pitch it is likely to put several noses out of joint.

Incidentally, regarding Kante's cameo yesterday, did anyone else notice the marked difference in attitude he seemed to have compared with the other players? Maybe it's because he's spent so long away from the squad but his approach seemed to be so much more professional than the rest. Compared to him the other players looked like a kick about in the playground. I sincerely hope the young players new to the club look to him and Silva for advice on how to conduct themselves.

[Bob Singleton]

16 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

He isn't going to get sacked. He hasn't been sacked for almost exactly this performance and result on multiple occasions already, and those times our position in the league was more precarious. There's no one to come in as an interim* from within, and there's a game on Tuesday.

I don't personally think they'll sack him in May even, but I reckon there's basically no chance it will be before then.

*There's an idea ... Anthony, how do you fancy acting up for the next 7 weeks?

Yeah, I know. More wishful thinking than anything else. Potter is here until at least November/December time. He'll get the rest of this season, he'll get the pre-season it's claimed the owners believe he deserves, and then he'll get most of the first half of the season. If things go well (I doubt it, but will be more than happy if they do) he'll carry on, but if next season mirrors this one, then hopefully he'll be gone before Christmas before any further damage is done.

[Mark Kelly]

At this point I despise the players so much I'd have Jose back just to scare them .

[martin1905]

I think some need to have a bit more of an in-depth look at Nagelsmann before passing judgement.

He's had nearly 250  Bundesliga games spread over 7 years. Took Hoffenheim from bottom 3 to 4th, then 3rd before going to Leipzig and making them one of the best teams in Europe, taking them out of the group stage for the first time in their history to the semi finals.  That was before going to Bayern and having an identical record to the great Pep.

He's far from inexperienced and there are absolutely no similarities to Potter. There are reasons not to want him, or to prefer someone else but it has nothing to do with Potters career before he came here.

The pickings are slim. We aren't going to be able to go out and get whoever we want.

[RDCW]

4 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

At this point I despise the players so much I'd have Jose back just to scare them .

I don't. I think the players are trying; it's just that they are being undercoached and undermined by constant tinkering and being played illogical out of position. This is all on Potter.

[RDCW]

Just now, RDCW said:

I don't. I think the players are trying; it's just that they are being undercoached and undermined by constant tinkering and being played illogically out of position. This is all on Potter.

 

[Bison]

8 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

Yeah, I know. More wishful thinking than anything else. Potter is here until at least November/December time. He'll get the rest of this season, he'll get the pre-season it's claimed the owners believe he deserves, and then he'll get most of the first half of the season. If things go well (I doubt it, but will be more than happy if they do) he'll carry on, but if next season mirrors this one, then hopefully he'll be gone before Christmas before any further damage is done.

You could argue there's a lot of damage being done right now that may take a long time to resolve. Somebody like Mudryk looks completely devoid of confidence and plays  timidly. How much good would a better coach do for players like him?

We have invested an awful lot into young players. Getting their Chelsea careers started in this manner isn't ideal.

[Mark Kelly]

He's struggling because we never had a preseason. 

Someone else who didn't have a preseason

[Ham]

40 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

I agree. Potter became the rent boy of the media for a year or so before we "snapped him up". 

Did he? 

No wonder they're giving him an easy ride 😏

[Bob Singleton]

10 minutes ago, RDCW said:

I don't. I think the players are trying; it's just that they are being undercoached and undermined by constant tinkering and being played illogical out of position. This is all on Potter.

I agree. They look confused. I know some are saying "look at all the chances we created... not putting the ball in the back of the net is down to the players, not Potter" but I disagree.

Confidence plays a huge part; a confident player will score great goals and flukey goals. A player lacking confidence will just miss and miss and miss. The lack of confidence we have in front of goal is down to lack of routines being coached into them and the confusion generated by constant chopping and changing. Some of that chopping and changing was forced on us due to injuries and a depleted squad. Since January, injuries have been less of a problem, and now the squad is too big... but still we chop and change.

We need to have a core... somewhere between 8 or 9 players who start every game (injury or suspension notwithstanding) with another 5 or so who might sometimes start, or sometimes come on to change a game. Patterns of play can then be drilled in to everyone, so that all the match-day squad, be they starters or on the bench, know exactly what their role is in any given situation.

At the moment, I see no patterns of play. I see no 'familiarity' other than a few rare occasions between Havertz and Felix. I see no 'collective'. All I see are otherwise decent players putting together disjointed performances. That's down to coaching, or rather, lack of coaching.

[RDCW]

2 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

I agree. They look confused. I know some are saying "look at all the chances we created... not putting the ball in the back of the net is down to the players, not Potter" but I disagree.

Confidence plays a huge part; a confident player will score great goals and flukey goals. A player lacking confidence will just miss and miss and miss. The lack of confidence we have in front of goal is down to lack of routines being coached into them and the confusion generated by constant chopping and changing. Some of that chopping and changing was forced on us due to injuries and a depleted squad. Since January, injuries have been less of a problem, and now the squad is too big... but still we chop and change.

We need to have a core... somewhere between 8 or 9 players who start every game (injury or suspension notwithstanding) with another 5 or so who might sometimes start, or sometimes come on to change a game. Patterns of play can then be drilled in to everyone, so that all the match-day squad, be they starters or on the bench, know exactly what their role is in any given situation.

At the moment, I see no patterns of play. I see no 'familiarity' other than a few rare occasions between Havertz and Felix. I see no 'collective'. All I see are otherwise decent players putting together disjointed performances. That's down to coaching, or rather, lack of coaching.

Nail on head.

[Thiago97]

33 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

I think some need to have a bit more of an in-depth look at Nagelsmann before passing judgement.

He's had nearly 250  Bundesliga games spread over 7 years. Took Hoffenheim from bottom 3 to 4th, then 3rd before going to Leipzig and making them one of the best teams in Europe, taking them out of the group stage for the first time in their history to the semi finals.  That was before going to Bayern and having an identical record to the great Pep.

He's far from inexperienced and there are absolutely no similarities to Potter. There are reasons not to want him, or to prefer someone else but it has nothing to do with Potters career before he came here.

The pickings are slim. We aren't going to be able to go out and get whoever we want.

It’s not a comparison with Potter as a manager per se. The comparison is both relatively young managers who have done well at a much lower level, climbed their way up through the ranks and both been found out at the very highest level.

They both also have a hipster reputation for their managerial approach over the last 7-8 years.

I’m not doubting Nagelsmann is a good manager, but I don’t also doubt that Potter is a good manager. 
 

To use a boxing term, it’s about levels for me.  Respect , reputation, desire, experience, ego are all key attributes at the very highest level for any manager. We need someone who can come in and handle himself, the players, the expectation , raise standards and mix it with opposition managers.

Nagelsmann represents more of a  risk on all these fronts right now. It’s a risk we cannot afford to gamble on again right now.