Chelsea Sack Graham Potter

[Thiago97]

19 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

I think Villa and Wolves have hired "better" coaches than us this season. Better at setting up teams to get results consumerate to their ability, at least.

Which would probably be the problem with that table. Coaches don't all really have the same job, don't all specialise in the same thing. Potter would probably be 3rd or 4th in what he does well, but nowhere even close to that in getting, grinding out even, results.

I agree on this and I rate both those two coaches. However, if we had appointed either one of those two, many would be up in arms about them being poor appointments due to what happened at Arsenal and Real Madrid. I would go as far ad say many would be questioning why we didn’t look at Graham Potter, instead of hiring either one of the two managers who failed at big clubs! 

[Thiago97]

13 hours ago, chara said:

Still not sure why GP is getting a relatively easy ride from us here on the Forum.

He doesn't have the goodwill factor going for him afforded Frank..the least we could do forSFL...the results of TT or Jose or the early realisation, and voicing, that AVB and Avram were not up to the job.

I personally have written him off for practical purposes but still can't find enough anger to castigate him and call for his removal..which basically is my stance re him..strange.

Anyone else feeling as puzzled?

He’s maybe getting a little more slack because it feels as if we are trying to build something. It’s the first appointment from the new owners, who appear to want to build a stable club environment (similar to what I believe they have done in baseball) .

He may or may not be the right man for that job, but the only real way we find out is by giving it some time. It really is that simple.

In an ideal world, we all want that stability and continuity at the club. Pulling the plug after 6 months is not really giving it a go. 
 

To my mind, he has between now and end of the season to show why he is the manager to be given this opportunity long term. If we don’t see that over the final 3 months of the season, then he will be moved on. It’s a great opportunity for him and his team, but he clearly has to improve the players and clubs results.

I think we are seeing minor improvements. It’s such fine margins in games at this level, we are currently not on the right end of the percentage calls of these margins. That’s something he needs to influence and try to change quickly.

[McCreadie]

1 hour ago, Thiago97 said:

 He may or may not be the right man for that job, but the only real way we find out is by giving it some time. It really is that simple.

In an ideal world, we all want that stability and continuity at the club. Pulling the plug after 6 months is not really giving it a go. 

To my mind, he has between now and end of the season to show why he is the manager to be given this opportunity long term. If we don’t see that over the final 3 months of the season, then he will be moved on. It’s a great opportunity for him and his team, but he clearly has to improve the players and clubs results.

Common sense at last.

[thevelourfog]

1 hour ago, Thiago97 said:

I agree on this and I rate both those two coaches. However, if we had appointed either one of those two, many would be up in arms about them being poor appointments due to what happened at Arsenal and Real Madrid. I would go as far ad say many would be questioning why we didn’t look at Graham Potter, instead of hiring either one of the two managers who failed at big clubs! 

Definitely. Both are managers who have had their career peaks already and established themselves as good but not in those top two or three tiers we are accustomed to appointing from, coaches seemingly on their way up or already established.

Potter is much more in the Villas-Boas/Lampard camp (at the time of appointment) than any other appointment in the last 25 years. Benitez and Hiddink are only appointments in that time I'd put in the Emery/Lopetugi category, and they were explicitly temporary. 

Thinking about our managers over the last 25 years has got me thinking "how the hell did Avram Grant get this job?!". Over a decade on and still don't get it, a real outlier!

[ChelseaJambo]

As a relative outsider looking in, persevering is the sunk cost fallacy imo. It ain't working, yes we were good for a bit yesterday but it quickly descended into cluelessness again, and the handball has masked that. My 'main' team, Hearts went through similar with a past manager...turning the corner was always, well, just around the corner. We kept going and going before ended up bottom of the table. The risk of course is the next appointment, we got the immediate replacement wrong as the damage had been done, before getting it right and rebuilding.

 

I was all for stability, Tuchel was the first manager I thought was going to be here for the long haul which I was delighted about and he had money in the bank that suggested persevering was worth it despite a tougher start this year. We got that decision wrong, it appears we've got this one wrong too. Fail fast, and move on for me.

Edited February 12, 2023 by ChelseaJambo

[Holymoly]

On 11/02/2023 at 17:02, chara said:

Looking at the table and the head coach at each side I got to wondering where I would place GP on a table of coaches.

It's true that Grame Potter doesn't seem to be an "impact" manager but whether he will be a long term success remains to be seen as it is the latter that the owners maintain they were looking for when they appointed him. Personally I feel he lacks that hard edge that you need when dealing with players and the media. He just seems to want to be everyone's friend, and to be honest that may help keep him in a job as it less likely that the media will begin gunning for him.

[Holymoly]

Interesting thoughts from Yannick giving an alternative view on Graeme Potter

[Blue Moon]

Another view of Mr Potter from todays Times …

”Deflecting criticism is weak – Premier League needs strong managers like Graham Potter.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/753884ea-ab11-11ed-ad1a-af90319d4b0d?shareToken=ee4bf5a3177d075acc13c9d67be58cbf

[Thiago97]

11 minutes ago, Blue Moon said:

Another view of Mr Potter from todays Times …

”Deflecting criticism is weak – Premier League needs strong managers like Graham Potter.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/753884ea-ab11-11ed-ad1a-af90319d4b0d?shareToken=ee4bf5a3177d075acc13c9d67be58cbf

It's an interesting discussion point this. I'm not exactly sure where I sit on this, probably with my feet tentatively in both camps. A lot was made of Potter's post match comments regarding the non penalty for handball, for which I can see it from both sides.

Personally, I get tired and bored of managers constantly deflecting criticism as talking points for why the result didn't go their way. We see it time and time again and it fools absolutely nobody, it don't fool the players, fans, pundits, referees etc etc. In many cases, it just plain outright lying that managers come out and spout, as they try to defend why/why not certain scenarios and decisions didn't go their way.

At the same time, it would also be nice to see a bit of passion from your manager in the right situation. I think Potter could have made a bit more of the lack of decision from the game on Saturday. At the same time, I wouldn't want to see him going full Mourinho , Klopp etc and turning it into a huge event, that you know you will be on other end of and some point, then blindly back and defend that.

It should be about focusing on ourselves in my opinion. Better decision making in forward areas when on top in the first 25 mins, we don't need to have that penalty decision go our way (That's not to say the decision can be justified as it was a dreadful call)

Edited February 13, 2023 by Thiago97

[Mark Kelly]

14 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

 

Personally, I get tired and bored of managers constantly deflecting criticism as talking points for why the result didn't go their way. We see it time and time again and it fools absolutely nobody.

 

Just listen to Moyes after the game , he's still moaning about a correct decision that cost his side last time we played them.

Loser mentality

[Bob Singleton]

Agree with you on this @Thiago97 

Klopp's rants, for example - and in an era now gone - Wenger never seeing anything, etc., are all just ridiculous posturing and can be seen right through. But as you say, a bit of passion also wouldn't go amiss. If as a manager you don't always try to deflect, then Potter getting angry about the handball would possibly have a greater impact, given he'd be seen as a person who doesn't normally get angry.

 

[Bob Singleton]

From The Athletic:

 

❝Chelsea’s draw at West Ham United on Saturday means Graham Potter’s side have won just two of their last 13 Premier League matches, leaving them ninth in the table and 10 points off the top four.

The run of results, especially with so much money spent in the summer and January transfer windows, has led to some unrest among supporters. The Champions League is the last chance the club have for silverware this season.

But though some fans are questioning whether Potter is the right man to lead the club in the post-Roman Abramovich era, the club’s owners have no such concerns, reports David Ornstein, whose column returns next week.

The feeling within the Chelsea hierarchy is that the former Brighton coach should be judged in years not months and they are confident they have one of the best managers in the game. They have a lot of changes still to make at the club and decided early on not to judge him on whether they qualify for the Champions League this season.

The leadership team feel Potter coming in mid-season with a squad that needed such a big overhaul meant success was always very unlikely in the short term and that there is still a lot of change to come to what is now a youthful team. It’s felt he has been very unlucky with injuries too.

The success of Mikel Arteta at Arsenal with a young squad after a mixed start is also seen as reassuring and the board feel that it will take some time for all the new faces to gel and understand Potter’s tactics and methods.❞

 

[Mark Kelly]

7 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

From The Athletic:

 

 

The success of Mikel Arteta at Arsenal with a young squad after a mixed start is also seen as reassuring and the board feel that it will take some time for all the new faces to gel and understand Potter’s tactics and methods.❞

 

I think I'd agree more if it said 

The success of Mikel Arteta at Arsenal with a young squad after a mixed start is also seen as reassuring , what with him being an utter bellend and the board feel that it will take some time for all the new faces to gel and understand Potter’s tactics and methods.❞

 

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

Just listen to Moyes after the game , he's still moaning about a correct decision that cost his side last time we played them.

Loser mentality

For a toilet coach he’s coached three teams finish higher in the PL than than team GP.

[RDCW]

2 hours ago, Thiago97 said:

It's an interesting discussion point this. I'm not exactly sure where I sit on this, probably with my feet tentatively in both camps. A lot was made of Potter's post match comments regarding the non penalty for handball, for which I can see it from both sides.

Personally, I get tired and bored of managers constantly deflecting criticism as talking points for why the result didn't go their way. We see it time and time again and it fools absolutely nobody, it don't fool the players, fans, pundits, referees etc etc. In many cases, it just plain outright lying that managers come out and spout, as they try to defend why/why not certain scenarios and decisions didn't go their way.

At the same time, it would also be nice to see a bit of passion from your manager in the right situation. I think Potter could have made a bit more of the lack of decision from the game on Saturday. At the same time, I wouldn't want to see him going full Mourinho , Klopp etc and turning it into a huge event, that you know you will be on other end of and some point, then blindly back and defend that.

It should be about focusing on ourselves in my opinion. Better decision making in forward areas when on top in the first 25 mins, we don't need to have that penalty decision go our way (That's not to say the decision can be justified as it was a dreadful call)

I think there's a big difference between irrational rage and expressing a legitimate concern and anger over the latest in a series of gross refereeing and VAR decisions which have affected the outcomes of Chelsea's matches during Potter's reign. You can be logical without being totally bloodless. Unfortunately cold, hard logic is not the only, or even necessarily always the most important element in inspiring young sportsmen to produce their best for you........then there's the coaching: there is not sufficient evidence of flexible, innovative attacking strategies, or paradoxically a settled, slick plan A. I find myself therefore with a toe in the Potter camp, but a size 11 boot in the ffs show some passion, nous and coaching ability camp!

[RDCW]

1 hour ago, Bob Singleton said:

From The Athletic:

 

❝Chelsea’s draw at West Ham United on Saturday means Graham Potter’s side have won just two of their last 13 Premier League matches, leaving them ninth in the table and 10 points off the top four.

The run of results, especially with so much money spent in the summer and January transfer windows, has led to some unrest among supporters. The Champions League is the last chance the club have for silverware this season.

But though some fans are questioning whether Potter is the right man to lead the club in the post-Roman Abramovich era, the club’s owners have no such concerns, reports David Ornstein, whose column returns next week.

The feeling within the Chelsea hierarchy is that the former Brighton coach should be judged in years not months and they are confident they have one of the best managers in the game. They have a lot of changes still to make at the club and decided early on not to judge him on whether they qualify for the Champions League this season.

The leadership team feel Potter coming in mid-season with a squad that needed such a big overhaul meant success was always very unlikely in the short term and that there is still a lot of change to come to what is now a youthful team. It’s felt he has been very unlucky with injuries too.

The success of Mikel Arteta at Arsenal with a young squad after a mixed start is also seen as reassuring and the board feel that it will take some time for all the new faces to gel and understand Potter’s tactics and methods.❞

 

Thanks Bob  as always  for showing some content to which many of us would not otherwise have access.

I think we all know GP is going to remain in post for the foreseeable, or at least until Boehly and co come to the realisation that in soccer the short term imperatives have a direct effect on the achievement of long term objectives. Mangerial stability is only worthwhile as a servant of success and is nor an end in itself.

[Trini_Blue]

2 hours ago, RDCW said:

Thanks Bob  as always  for showing some content to which many of us would not otherwise have access.

I think we all know GP is going to remain in post for the foreseeable, or at least until Boehly and co come to the realisation that in soccer the short term imperatives have a direct effect on the achievement of long term objectives. Mangerial stability is only worthwhile as a servant of success and is nor an end in itself.

We can only assume that what they're seeing on a daily basis at the training facility is reassuring.

We've got a fairly stacked team of experts looking on at the footballing side of things. If Potter and his methods were sticking out like a sore thumb you have to assume that this would have been brought to the ownership group's attention.

I, for one, definitely noticed that the team looked really well-organized on Saturday. The attacking play wasn't as incisive as we would all like but we looked really comfortable defensively with 4 at the back - haven't been able to say that since pre-2016 tbh. 

It feels odd to see a Chelsea manager receive this amount of patience after years of instability, and I hope that it pays off. 

[My Blood Is Blue]

2 hours ago, Trini_Blue said:

We can only assume that what they're seeing on a daily basis at the training facility is reassuring.

We've got a fairly stacked team of experts looking on at the footballing side of things. If Potter and his methods were sticking out like a sore thumb you have to assume that this would have been brought to the ownership group's attention.

I, for one, definitely noticed that the team looked really well-organized on Saturday. The attacking play wasn't as incisive as we would all like but we looked really comfortable defensively with 4 at the back - haven't been able to say that since pre-2016 tbh. 

It feels odd to see a Chelsea manager receive this amount of patience after years of instability, and I hope that it pays off. 

Very good point this actually, yes Badiashile has been performing really well but Potter has to take some credit for the switch to a back 4. Hopefully it works as well without Badiashile on Wednesday.

[martin1905]

2 hours ago, Trini_Blue said:

We can only assume that what they're seeing on a daily basis at the training facility is reassuring.

We've got a fairly stacked team of experts looking on at the footballing side of things. If Potter and his methods were sticking out like a sore thumb you have to assume that this would have been brought to the ownership group's attention.

Absolutely no doubt it has been bought to their attention, that along with how blatantly obvious it is on the football pitch that Potter and his team are completely out of Thier depth is why he won't be here at the start of next season.

2 hours ago, Trini_Blue said:

I, for one, definitely noticed that the team looked really well-organized on Saturday. The attacking play wasn't as incisive as we would all like but we looked really comfortable defensively with 4 at the back - haven't been able to say that since pre-2016 tbh. 

Well organised? Comfortable defensively against a team that were 17th in the league and sat 10 men behind the ball? I mean Declan Rice even came out and said how easy it was to work us out.

If that is what people are seeing as improving then it really shows just how bad we are 

2 hours ago, Trini_Blue said:

It feels odd to see a Chelsea manager receive this amount of patience after years of instability, and I hope that it pays off. 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by martin1905

[Rob B]

5 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Well organised? Comfortable defensively against a team that were 17th in the league and sat 10 men behind the ball? I mean Declan Rice even came out and said how easy it was to work us out.

If that is what people are seeing as improving then it really shows just how bad we are 

 

Not sure that’s entirely fair.

I have as much doubt about Potter as the next person, believe me, but there’s no denying we have been defensively solid of late, with only 1 goal conceded in our last 4 matches. 

The real questions for me are…

1) Can he get our attack to gel effectively so we are scoring goals regularly?  (like Arteta has done where the team is greater than the sum of its parts) 

2) Is he a difference maker when it comes to Semi Finals / Finals / gruelling title races?  Will he give the team that extra edge?  Can he go head to head with Klopp / Guardiola etc and come out on top? 

My gut feel is probably yes to the first question (with enough time and maybe even more resources) but I doubt it in regard to question 2.    

[martin1905]

5 minutes ago, Rob B said:

Not sure that’s entirely fair.

I have as much doubt about Potter as the next person, believe me, but there’s no denying we have been defensively solid of late, with only 1 goal conceded in our last 4 matches. 

The real questions for me are…

1) Can he get our attack to gel effectively so we are scoring goals regularly?  (like Arteta has done where the team is greater than the sum of its parts) 

2) Is he a difference maker when it comes to Semi Finals / Finals / gruelling title races?  Will he give the team that extra edge?  Can he go head to head with Klopp / Guardiola etc and come out on top? 

My gut feel is probably yes to the first question (with enough time and maybe even more resources) but I doubt it in regard to question 2.    

We've been fine defensively since he came though. We've got the second best defensive record in the league and that's after conceding 9 goals in our first 6 matches under Tuchel.

The improvement people are claiming hasn't really happened in that department, I'd argue it hasn't happened anywhere but that's another debate. The only real difference is Badiashile is better than Koulibaly.

Potters teams don't concede goals which is wonderful but they also don't score. This isn't a new thing, he's managed 135 games in the premier League and scored 146 goals, conceding 161. It's a pretty big sample and what we are seeing is very similar.

 

[Trini_Blue]

5 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Very good point this actually, yes Badiashile has been performing really well but Potter has to take some credit for the switch to a back 4. Hopefully it works as well without Badiashile on Wednesday.

Reece James and Cucurella are also staying at home more and Enzo is a fantastic addition to midfield. All of this has added to that balance too. 

[Trini_Blue]

5 hours ago, martin1905 said:

Absolutely no doubt it has been bought to their attention, that along with how blatantly obvious it is on the football pitch that Potter and his team are completely out of Thier depth is why he won't be here at the start of next season.

Well organised? Comfortable defensively against a team that were 17th in the league and sat 10 men behind the ball? I mean Declan Rice even came out and said how easy it was to work us out.

If that is what people are seeing as improving then it really shows just how bad we are 

 

We can agree to disagree. The man doesn't convince me either but we have to be fair and that's something that has been apparent so far. Maybe it's personnel solely but it seems like the guys are being drilled in that formation.

[xceleryx]

7 hours ago, Trini_Blue said:

I, for one, definitely noticed that the team looked really well-organized on Saturday. The attacking play wasn't as incisive as we would all like but we looked really comfortable defensively with 4 at the back - haven't been able to say that since pre-2016 tbh. 

It feels odd to see a Chelsea manager receive this amount of patience after years of instability, and I hope that it pays off. 

We looked no more or less organised than your standard Potter lead side. West Ham had like 28% possession and still ended up with only two less shots than us, more shots inside the box, and a higher expected goals rating. None of this is a positive when you really think about it. Especially when you consider the lowly state West Ham are in this season. 

5 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Very good point this actually, yes Badiashile has been performing really well but Potter has to take some credit for the switch to a back 4. Hopefully it works as well without Badiashile on Wednesday.

I don't think we can really give Potter too much credit in switching to a back four in all honestly. This was always going to happen once we were able to make the personnel changes needed, something prior managers didn't get and therefore stuck with what was best for the group in those times. You'd have to seriously question Potters IQ if he was still playing a back three with the arrivals of Felix, Mudryk and Noni in particular. 

[kev61]

On 12/02/2023 at 11:27, Blue Moon said:

Left arm, @kev61? That’s typical for golf - which I took up on retiring 3 years ago, and just before I got bored and went back to work part-time. My wrist packed up progressively last year to the point where I’m in a brace, with physio in progress. TFCC tear, apparently. Had Covid 3-4 times - once caught at the Bridge - no great shakes, but left me with brain fog - despite having shots and boosters - so won’t bother in future.

 

Also, two friends had all the shots, and had heart attacks within a week or so. Coincidental? Who knows …

Thanks for the info.I was talking to my sister in laws husband today.He is a lawyer in Washington DC.

He tells me there are a lot of lawsuits regarding a thing called SIRVA (shoulder injury related to vaccine administration).

Basically it is giving you an injection(shot) in the wrong place on the upper arm.

I'm certainly not going to attach blame to anyone,but the Doctors made a massive mistake with me that could have had massive consequences if I hadn't asked questions about a recent illness.

Just saying,  stay vigilant with your health and your loved ones,doctors don't always get it right especially when they are under pressure.