Chelsea Sack Graham Potter

[Holymoly]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

Daily Mail now speculating that Potter was simply too nice , the players were ignoring his instructions and not carrying out his instructions in the knowledge that he was too soft to throw his weight around and put them in their place.

Make.of that what you will.

I've highlighted the important words in your post.

[Mark Kelly]

2 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

And to be fair it's becoming a massive achievement to emerge from a Premier League season nowadays without some sort of European football to look forward to.

(I'm using the term "achievement" in an ironic way.)

It truly is.

However it would be nice to ease in the new guy with more coaching and less playing time so may be a blessing in disguise.

[thevelourfog]

Matt Law reporting the players found out about the sacking through the public statement.

[Bert19]

5 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Matt Law reporting the players found out about the sacking through the public statement.

Something about stopping leaks emerging, so they weren't told ahead of time?

[Original 21]

Posted again now that Nagelsmann is the favourite to be next manager…

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2023/apr/01/tottenham-beware-nagelsman-has-reached-a-crisis-point-in-his-career

[Mark Kelly]

9 minutes ago, Bert19 said:

Something about stopping leaks emerging, so they weren't told ahead of time?

I expect so , I read they'd made the decision at 2-45 pm and it was hours later when they told the media.

[Bison]

Considering our team news is usually leaked 2+ hours before games I think it's wise they didn't share the information with the players.

[Bones]

Sources close to the Chelsea squad pondered whether Potter had the force of character to convince players to do things they deep down did not want to like Tuchel possessed.

There was an expectation and it would even have been understood at times if Potter did things in a bid to ruffle a few feathers or pinned a few players up against the dressing room wall when things were not going to plan.

Some Chelsea players felt a stronger personality was needed and someone to be far more firmer with them.

[Mail Sport]

[Lump Of Celery]

I am wondering if the severance package means we can still command a fee for anyone wanting to hire GP.  Apparently he is favourite for the Leicester job, what do we do if for example they want to hire all of his staff while we are still interviewing managers. Either have to lose all of our coaching staff in the interim, or keep them and pay them off when the new manager comes in.

I would have just put him on gardening leave knowing he would have wanted to take another job at some point in the next 6 years...

[Bones]

Just now, Bones said:

Sources close to the Chelsea squad pondered whether Potter had the force of character to convince players to do things they deep down did not want to like Tuchel possessed.

There was an expectation and it would even have been understood at times if Potter did things in a bid to ruffle a few feathers or pinned a few players up against the dressing room wall when things were not going to plan.

Some Chelsea players felt a stronger personality was needed and someone to be far more firmer with them.

[Mail Sport]

This makes perfect sense tbh. I know many situations where people perform better if they are held accountable rather than slapped wrist like or no punishment for underperforming at all. It's nice to be nice, but it's all about the balance, unfortunately Potter was too nice here.

[Original 21]

4 hours ago, martin1905 said:

I expect Nagelsmann within the next 48 hours.

As I understand it, Nagelsmann is still under contract to Bayern Munich until 2026. So not sure how we get around that without paying compensation. However, they want Barry as a coach, which we are also asking compensation for. So maybe there’s a deal to be done there? 

[Max Fowler]

For everyone who was quoting Simon Jordan (including myself) about the reasons Tuchel got fired, and Jordan always said he would have fired him if he was owner, Keown finally challenged him on that and Jordan was less clear cut on the reasons than ever.

Basically it sounds like, as we knew, Tuchel was basically ignoring messages, not turning up for meetings etc.

Enough reasons to get fired?!?!?! Even Jordan now admits that Boehly may have "made a rod for his own back" in hindsight.

Clearly Tuchel should have behaved better, impossible for me to believe it couldn't have been worked out though. And Simon Jordan always takes a strong view in favour of chairmen and owners (fair enough).

But we should have never sacked Tuchel - Boehly could have had meeting after meeting clearly warning him that he will get fired if he continues in this way. Or given him some f'in space to start the season and address this in a disciplinary fashion later on.

Cleary Boehly wanted his own man and was ready to pull the trigger way too early. In favour of what, a collaborative man who collaborates us into 11th position in the league?

WE MOVE FORWARD and hope Boehly learns from this catastrophic mistake. 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Max Fowler

[chara]

Bottom line....was GP doing a good acceptable job?

Regardless of reasons,excuses or media mischief.

I do not believe the decision was made on the spur of the moment but discussions had been ongoing for some time...the "interim" wasn't approached Sat/Sun and asked if he would step in.

Fashionable for the media to call out Todd and Co...been doing that from day one. (Justified or not)

GP's appointment was a mistake in hindsight but at the time not so much so.

Not the first person to be promoted above his ability but unless they step up and work at a higher level there is no way of knowing....GP was found wanting.

IF the Advisory setup is competant then an underperforming employee will be moved on..basic law of the employment jungle.

We as outside long term observers of the game were especially "confused" by the selection at the weekend...how did real in game pro's see it?

With no real injury debilitation of the squad available for selection how did RJ feel/think when instructed to play as some sort of central defender hybrid when his strengths and threat to the opposition is elsewhere?..certainly not a case of making the best of a sparse choice due to injuries.

Forget the media feeding frenzy...Conte,Brenda and GP (and the previous sackings this season) all went because they were not ,for what ever reason, succeeding at the job they were being well paid for.

No crocodile tears please from the media and elsewhere.

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by chara

[thevelourfog]

1 hour ago, Bones said:

This makes perfect sense tbh. I know many situations where people perform better if they are held accountable rather than slapped wrist like or no punishment for underperforming at all. It's nice to be nice, but it's all about the balance, unfortunately Potter was too nice here.

High support, high challenge. In any people management role, you need to have standards and hold people accountable to them. You just need to also give them what they need to meet those standards.

From the outside, you couldn't defensibly suggest Potter managed to do either.

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

For everyone who was quoting Simon Jordan (including myself) about the reasons Tuchel got fired, and Jordan always said he would have fired him if he was owner, Keown finally challenged him on that and Jordan was less clear cut on the reasons than ever.

Basically it sounds like, as we knew, Tuchel was basically ignoring messages, not turning up for meetings etc.

Enough reasons to get fired?!?!?! Even Jordan now admits that Boehly may have "made a rod for his own back" ...

 

I'm not a Talksport watcher/listener, and if Martin Keown is the voice of reason on it, I feel pretty vindicated!

This clip is, though, revealing on several levels. I think its implicit that Tuchel didn't do anything drastic or untoward in a discrete way, and it was how he communicated with Boehly that was the problem. The bigger reveal, though, is Jordan's response to Keown's challenge. I think it says a lot about Jordan and about most owners, Boehly included. They might talk the "collaboration" talk, but it is just that. Talk. What they really are is autocrats. Do as I say, and tell me what a great idea it is as you do it. Any model of leadership will tell you that Jordan's "managing up" has it all backwards. A leader should invite challenge and should be creating the circumstances for their people to thrive and succeed. My big hope here is that Boehly has the self-awareness and reflexivity to think on this, and to realise the next coach has to be someone who he can hear "no" (and maybe even an occasional very impolite "no", this is football after all!) from.

Edited April 3, 2023 by thevelourfog

[Bob Singleton]

As always there are two sides to the one coin.

Potter was clearly promoted beyond his current abilities.  Going from Brighton to Chelsea was (and the pun is very much intended... if only to make some of you groan) A Bridge Too Far!

It all started OK with a mix of wins and draws and getting out of the CL qualifying stages reasonably comfortably, but things quickly started to fall apart. Some of that could be laid against our 'injury crisis' and most people (supporters, commentators, club owners) seemed to have sympathy with what he was up against in those early days. But as time went on, as players returned from injury, as new players were added to the squad, it became clear that instead of progressing, we were continuing to regress. I'm sure that, high up, questions were starting to be asked a few months ago... long before playing two full backs at centre back with two centre backs on the bench!  Maybe the sacking of Naglesmann at Bayern precipitated the sacking of Potter... I'm not sure anyone outside the 'board' / owners will 100% know the answer to that.

On the other hand Potter was brought in as a long-term, "slow burn" appointment. A coach who had slowly but methodically improved squads of 'journeymen' players, turning some almost into 'gems'.  He was told, "yeah, we'll give you time to implement your vision and to build a great team" and then a few short months later "oh by the way, here's 15 new players for you to integrate into a squad you've only barely begun to know". I'm not sure what the owners were playing at, bringing in a guy with a particular work style and then undermining his style by doing the opposite of what he'd been brought in to do!

Ultimately the ones who bear the brunt of the blame are Todd Boehly, Behdad Eghbali - and those who suggested Potter to them - for giving the job to Potter in the first place, then those same people for going out and buying players like drug addicts in a crack den, and then again for taking so long to realise their mistake before finally sacking him yesterday. Let us not also forget all the other upheavals, from sacking the entire medical staff to getting rid of the groundsman. Changes needed to be made, but everything seems to have been rushed to prove a point that there are new owners around.

[Bison]

Reading new Tuchel quotes from today. Yet again talking about how much he loved the club, how he made friendships for life and how much it shocked him to leave.

I still can't believe we lost not just a great coach but somebody that passionate about the club for Graham Potter.

[chara]

24 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

As always there are two sides to the one coin.

Potter was clearly promoted beyond his current abilities.  Going from Brighton to Chelsea was (and the pun is very much intended... if only to make some of you groan) A Bridge Too Far!

It all started OK with a mix of wins and draws and getting out of the CL qualifying stages reasonably comfortably, but things quickly started to fall apart. Some of that could be laid against our 'injury crisis' and most people (supporters, commentators, club owners) seemed to have sympathy with what he was up against in those early days. But as time went on, as players returned from injury, as new players were added to the squad, it became clear that instead of progressing, we were continuing to regress. I'm sure that, high up, questions were starting to be asked a few months ago... long before playing two full backs at centre back with two centre backs on the bench!  Maybe the sacking of Naglesmann at Bayern precipitated the sacking of Potter... I'm not sure anyone outside the 'board' / owners will 100% know the answer to that.

On the other hand Potter was brought in as a long-term, "slow burn" appointment. A coach who had slowly but methodically improved squads of 'journeymen' players, turning some almost into 'gems'.  He was told, "yeah, we'll give you time to implement your vision and to build a great team" and then a few short months later "oh by the way, here's 15 new players for you to integrate into a squad you've only barely begun to know". I'm not sure what the owners were playing at, bringing in a guy with a particular work style and then undermining his style by doing the opposite of what he'd been brought in to do!

Ultimately the ones who bear the brunt of the blame are Todd Boehly, Behdad Eghbali - and those who suggested Potter to them - for giving the job to Potter in the first place, then those same people for going out and buying players like drug addicts in a crack den, and then again for taking so long to realise their mistake before finally sacking him yesterday. Let us not also forget all the other upheavals, from sacking the entire medical staff to getting rid of the groundsman. Changes needed to be made, but everything seems to have been rushed to prove a point that there are new owners around.

All very valid points Bob and well presented. In agreement overall.

My only niggle...GP had a squad to pick from and seemed unable to balance out anything or lay foundations...spoilt for choice is not a valid excuse.

The one season Moses change up as opposed to RLC at wb/wingman? Says a lot to me.

[chara]

Just read a summary of Bruno's first presser.

Leaps out at me.

"Preparation helps a lot for performance"

 

[chrisb]

10 minutes ago, chara said:

Just read a summary of Bruno's first presser.

Leaps out at me.

"Preparation helps a lot for performance"

 

In a previous job we used to have a saying called “the seven P’s” which went…

Prior planning and preparation prevent a p*ss poor performance.

Always worked for me!

[Mark Kelly]

Reading Tuchels quotations today about the Chelsea job becoming available just as he signs for Munich it really does seem he would still like to be here. 

[Original 21]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Reading Tuchels quotations today about the Chelsea job becoming available just as he signs for Munich it really does seem he would still like to be here. 

Piss poor decision from Boehly (or whoever advised him!) simply because the new owners wanted to make a statement and presumably a fresh start. What a disaster it’s proved. I just hope they learned from their mistake. 

[blueandproud]

Desperately wanted GP to succeed, but unfortunately it has ended in tears.  Boehley is making himself look silly with some of his decisions, he should bring in some people with good football knowledge to help him.  We must make the right choice to succeed Potter, otherwise we are well and truly in the brown stuff.

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

High support, high challenge. In any people management role, you need to have standards and hold people accountable to them. You just need to also give them what they need to meet those standards.

From the outside, you couldn't defensibly suggest Potter managed to do either.

I'm not a Talksport watcher/listener, and if Martin Keown is the voice of reason on it, I feel pretty vindicated!

This clip is, though, revealing on several levels. I think its implicit that Tuchel didn't do anything drastic or untoward in a discrete way, and it was how he communicated with Boehly that was the problem. The bigger reveal, though, is Jordan's response to Keown's challenge. I think it says a lot about Jordan and about most owners, Boehly included. They might talk the "collaboration" talk, but it is just that. Talk. What they really are is autocrats. Do as I say, and tell me what a great idea it is as you do it. Any model of leadership will tell you that Jordan's "managing up" has it all backwards. A leader should invite challenge and should be creating the circumstances for their people to thrive and succeed. My big hope here is that Boehly has the self-awareness and reflexivity to think on this, and to realise the next coach has to be someone who he can hear "no" (and maybe even an occasional very impolite "no", this is football after all!) from.

Also, I just can't believe Boehly couldn't see the wood from the trees and why Tuchel might have been emotionally unavailable.

Why? Because of EVERYTHING WE WENT THROUGH as a club together and sure some personal issues.

Was he too burned out to carry on? NO!!!

But maybe giving it a few weeks and months for the season to kick into gear, have these "ways of working" conversations in the international break.

It screams to me that Boehly subconsciously wanted his own man all along.

He was willing to find an excuse to pull the trigger and not give Tuchel the benefit of the doubt.

[chara]

3 minutes ago, blueandproud said:

Desperately wanted GP to succeed, but unfortunately it has ended in tears.  Boehley is making himself look silly with some of his decisions, he should bring in some people with good football knowledge to help him.  We must make the right choice to succeed Potter, otherwise we are well and truly in the brown stuff.

Good to see another straggler return!

The media are in full cry calling out Todd and Co....suits their agenda regardless of validity.

I think the effort to bring in football people has been under reported deliberately,

There is plenty of room for criticism of the new owners but the media poor GP dialogue is somewhat disingenuous.;

GP was no unwitting dupe and was not getting anywhere with a "slow burn", whatever the sweet F that means, approach to his job.

Bad decision lauded by the media initially and now seeking to blame the appointees for GP's failure to rise to the challenge.

[exiledblue]

11 hours ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65158578

"Chelsea's brutal sacking of manager Graham Potter is the latest twist in the brief and chaotic reign of owner Todd Boehly.

Boehly lured the 47-year-old away from the stable surroundings of Brighton and a team he had been allowed to build with patience, time and stability in September into a club where those three commodities are alien concepts."

McNumpty at it again. 

 

 

 

 

Chelsea bashing by McNulty and alot of the usual suspects,

ignore the facts he had such a poor win rate,

ignore the fact he went out of both domestic cups without a fight,

ignore the fact he never played the same 11

ignore the fact he couldnt get them to score

ignore the fact he didnt inspire from the sideline

ignore the fact nobody knew what his tactics were

ignore the fact his press conferences were to point out the oppo was better organised than we were

ignore the face he was over paid as the 4th best paid manager in the world

ignore the fact we gave him so many new players

ignore the fact Soton did the double

ignore the fact he was 11th,

ignore the fact our GD is MINUS 1

ignore the facts he chose to dump Auba even though there was no true CF available

and

ignore the fact Roman is no longer here

 

It was 100% the right decision to sack him, just too late.