Chelsea Sack Graham Potter

[Mark Kelly]

1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

It is bizarre that Potter's coaching skills are still being lauded. It is precisely a lack of coaching that was most concerning and just objectively readily observable in our play. We looked like Cobham was being used as a fancy gym.

I'm not trying to funny here but I genuinely do not recall any football club in history that has looked less coached than ours did , we cannot do any of the basic things you learn at junior school properly , I've never seen so many underhit or overhit passes or passes behind the receiver , from the age of five I was told to play the ball in front of the player. 

We have no clue what anyone is doing on corners , free kicks or throw in's and employing a set piece specialist makes a mockery of that , the only player who has improved , and even he is regressing recently under Potter was Kepa and he had his own coach.

The media are making us the villains once again out of hatred and nothing more , Potter by any metric was dreadful , absolutely dreadful .

[ROTG]

4 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

The media are making us the villains once again out of hatred and nothing more , Potter by any metric was dreadful , absolutely dreadful .

Here is a thought, If RDZ get the milan gig, would Brighton offer GP his old job back?

[Mark Kelly]

16 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Here is a thought, If RDZ get the milan gig, would Brighton offer GP his old job back?

Not now no 

[Ham]

9 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

I think most of this is fiction. Of course he was under pressure. Of course some players - Ziyech, Werner, Pulisic, , Hudson-Odoi, Lukaku were unhappy. They were garbage under Tuchel and they have been garbage ever since, even those that left.

He was 6 games into a new season after a sudden change of ownership. Things would have calmed down. 

 

There's been a fair bit of revisionism on here and twitter in relation to the end of the Tuchel era, the appointment of Potter and the last two transfer windows.

I can't believe just how many people claim to have been 100% behind Tuchel always, 100% against Potter being appointed and of the opinion that the windows were disastrous.

My recollection was that our form plummeted under TT, that most thought Potter was a decent appointment and that the vast majority thought we had smashed the transfer windows at the time.

Fast forward to challenging periods and now the vast majority claim to have felt very differently.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Tuchel, that's not my point. It just makes me laugh how people behave on social media.

BTW, this isn't aimed at you. 

[Holymoly]

10 hours ago, Bones said:

Bruno Saltor keeps banging about how difficult this sacking was for the players and Graham’s family.

I don't know but if I walked in the house and told the wife I'd just been sacked but here's a cheque for £20m (probably less, but you get my point) I'm pretty sure she would give me a big kiss.

[Ham]

1 minute ago, Holymoly said:

I don't know but if I walked in the house and told the wife I'd just been sacked but here's a cheque for £20m (probably less, but you get my point) I'm pretty sure she would give me a big kiss.

£13m apparently. Still not a bad day at work. Travel brochures would be out for a long holiday. 

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, Bones said:

Right. My point is why would you even have Bruno Saltor as an interim?

I guess we had Hiddink or Avram Grant in similar way, but having BS around in the coaching team just doesn’t brim me with confidence that players respect their coaches (Potter and his staff).

TBF no one has an ounce of an idea of what Bruno is like as a coach, so it's difficult to pass judgement upon him when we've yet to see what can he do. If anything, a lack of a Chelsea reputation and being connected to Brighton/Potter is largely why some are dismissing him.

An interim is just that, a temporary place holder until we find a more suitable permanent option. Given we've kinda got this next decision right, and the nature of this season largely being a write off as it is, there's not much left to really lose.

[Max Fowler]

17 minutes ago, Ham said:

There's been a fair bit of revisionism on here and twitter in relation to the end of the Tuchel era, the appointment of Potter and the last two transfer windows.

I can't believe just how many people claim to have been 100% behind Tuchel always, 100% against Potter being appointed and of the opinion that the windows were disastrous.

My recollection was that our form plummeted under TT, that most thought Potter was a decent appointment and that the vast majority thought we had smashed the transfer windows at the time.

Fast forward to challenging periods and now the vast majority claim to have felt very differently.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Tuchel, that's not my point. It just makes me laugh how people behave on social media.

BTW, this isn't aimed at you. 

Agree with most of this - but our form didn't plummet under Tuchel. We were 6th.

And many of those who defended Potter for months based on injuries ignored the fact our form also dropped under Tuchel because of a ton of injuries and Covid and a much thinner squad.

Not because of some predestined decline that always happens to Tuchel or some narrative like that.

Tuchel hugely over-performed - unsurprisingly couldn't keep that up and then we needed to rebuild under him. Simple:)

[Max Fowler]

4 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

TBF no one has an ounce of an idea of what Bruno is like as a coach, so it's difficult to pass judgement upon him when we've yet to see what can he do. If anything, a lack of a Chelsea reputation and being connected to Brighton/Potter is largely why some are dismissing him.

An interim is just that, a temporary place holder until we find a more suitable permanent option. Given we've kinda got this next decision right, and the nature of this season largely being a write off as it is, there's not much left to really lose.

I mean it does worry me a bit that he's never managed a game in his life.

Would much prefer an actual manager than an ex-Potter coach for the sake of collaboration and transition.

Honestly, I think it's a bit unfair for him to be asked to stick around because he's clearly upset.

[Max Fowler]

3 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

It is bizarre that Potter's coaching skills are still being lauded. It is precisely a lack of coaching that was most concerning and just objectively readily observable in our play. We looked like Cobham was being used as a fancy gym.

I am gonna back Potter as a coach.

I just don't think he was able to implement it at this level.

Brighton played unbelievable football at times under him.

Question marks should have been asked how about consistent his results were.

I think he's clearly a very good coach but he's found his level.

If you have no authority over elite players there's not much you can do.

EDIT: But many of the journos are not recognising this and just write...

"He's a top-level coach full-stop". That's clearly not the full picture.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Max Fowler

[xceleryx]

2 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I mean it does worry me a bit that he's never managed a game in his life.

Would much prefer an actual manager than an ex-Potter coach for the sake of collaboration and transition.

Honestly, I think it's a bit unfair for him to be asked to stick around because he's clearly upset.

And that's understandable.

I suppose I'm also at the point where I just don't care either, so as long as it's not Potter on the bench I'm pretty much okay with whoever seeing the season out.

[martin1905]

1 minute ago, Max Fowler said:

I mean it does worry me a bit that he's never managed a game in his life.

Would much prefer an actual manager than an ex-Potter coach for the sake of collaboration and transition.

Honestly, I think it's a bit unfair for him to be asked to stick around because he's clearly upset.

For all the talk that the club will take it's time on the appointment of the new manager and they are in no rush I very much think it will be done this week, in time for Madrid.

All the best candidates are without a job, in fact not just all the best, literally all of them. 

The club should have, and I believe they would have been, speaking to people weeks, if not months, ago.

There will be a que of managers wanting this job and it won't be hard to get someone appointed very quickly.

It makes absolutely no sense to wait until the summer, if we were going to do that we might as well have kept Potter, after all his record in Europe this season has been very good and even I, probably his biggest critic on here, would have kept him for the Madrid games, if we haven't got someone already lined up.

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, Holymoly said:

You're entitled to your opinion as I am mine. The guy was clearly losing it at the end and the results were suffering. So he trousered his not insignificant payoff and went off to India for alternative therapy treatment. We hardly chucked him out on the street.

We were 6th.

Tuchel had no summer. He clearly was shellshocked by the decision and needed to let it go.

He's always been into meditation, eastern wisdom etc.

That wasn't a mental breakdown that was a chance to recover and see the bigger picture.

Of course he was under pressure. Wouldn't you have been?

Some people say Klopp is now losing it under less circumstances but they back him for what he's done.

Simple.

[Max Fowler]

Just now, martin1905 said:

For all the talk that the club will take it's time on the appointment of the new manager and they are in no rush I very much think it will be done this week, in time for Madrid.

All the best candidates are without a job, in fact not just all the best, literally all of them. 

The club should have, and I believe they would have been, speaking to people weeks, if not months, ago.

There will be a que of managers wanting this job and it won't be hard to get someone appointed very quickly.

It makes absolutely no sense to wait until the summer, if we were going to do that we might as well have kept Potter, after all his record in Europe this season has been very good and even I, probably his biggest critic on here, would have kept him for the Madrid games, if we haven't got someone already lined up.

My only concern would be we pick Nagelsmann as our number one and he needs a break until the summer.

What happens then?

Do we wait until Madrid and possibly PSG come circling?

[Mark Kelly]

29 minutes ago, Ham said:

There's been a fair bit of revisionism on here and twitter in relation to the end of the Tuchel era, the appointment of Potter and the last two transfer windows.

I can't believe just how many people claim to have been 100% behind Tuchel always, 100% against Potter being appointed and of the opinion that the windows were disastrous.

My recollection was that our form plummeted under TT, that most thought Potter was a decent appointment and that the vast majority thought we had smashed the transfer windows at the time.

Fast forward to challenging periods and now the vast majority claim to have felt very differently.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Tuchel, that's not my point. It just makes me laugh how people behave on social media.

BTW, this isn't aimed at you. 

Hands up here , I really thought that Potter would be good for us , I stood up for him for ages until I just couldn't anymore to the point where I would have happily set his beard on fire .

Tuchel I can't recall what my stance was but I was 100% behind the appointment of Potter 

[Max Fowler]

9 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Hands up here , I really thought that Potter would be good for us , I stood up for him for ages until I just couldn't anymore to the point where I would have happily set his beard on fire .

Tuchel I can't recall what my stance was but I was 100% behind the appointment of Potter 

Actually I think the beard did wonders for Potter and he would have never ever got the Chelsea job if not for it.

Genuinely think the beard earned him that 60 million contract.

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Max Fowler

[martin1905]

12 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

My only concern would be we pick Nagelsmann as our number one and he needs a break until the summer.

What happens then?

Do we wait until Madrid and possibly PSG come circling?

We get him signed up ready for the summer or we move on, simple as that.

Same applies for anyone really. We do not need to wait, we shouldn't wait and Bruno being put in temporary charge, whatever the club is saying publicly, says to me we won't wait.

[thevelourfog]

9 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Hands up here , I really thought that Potter would be good for us , I stood up for him for ages until I just couldn't anymore to the point where I would have happily set his beard on fire .

Tuchel I can't recall what my stance was but I was 100% behind the appointment of Potter 

Not because I feel accused of anything but because I think it is interesting to see how our opinions change ...

I was always 100% against Tuchel being sacked, I remain that way and I feel about as vindicated in that as you can. There were issues, yes. But he was clearly worth investing in. I find it pretty distasteful that the initial idea that he was struggling and going through a difficult time has become, for some, this reified fact that he was having a "breakdown". We can't diagnose that from where we are and anyway should not be divorced from context. Who and what, after all, might have been contributing to that?

I was never strongly against Potter, but never for him either. Wary is probably the fairest word,  and I don't remember many people other than me talking about how often his teams went on long winless and low scoring runs, and how the press goodwill towards him was seemingly deliberately blind to his obvious flaws. I'd say I was pretty confident he was useless by January. But even I was surprised by how poor he was and the sack coming before May.

I have no real idea who is best from this point on. There are a few I know we need to stay clear of (Zidane, Mourinho, Conte, anyone currently employed) but of the other options, who knows.

[Max Fowler]

2 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Not because I feel accused of anything but because I think it is interesting to see how our opinions change ...

I was always 100% against Tuchel being sacked, I remain that way and I feel about as vindicated in that as you can. There were issues, yes. But he was clearly worth investing in. I find it pretty distasteful that the initial idea that he was struggling and going through a difficult time has become, for some, this reified fact that he was having a "breakdown". We can't diagnose that from where we are and anyway should not be divorced from context. Who and what, after all, might have been contributing to that?

I was never strongly against Potter, but never for him either. Wary is probably the fairest word,  and I don't remember many people other than me talking about how often his teams went on long winless and low scoring runs, and how the press goodwill towards him was seemingly deliberately blind to his obvious flaws. I'd say I was pretty confident he was useless by January. But even I was surprised by how poor he was and the sack coming before May.

I have no real idea who is best from this point on. There are a few I know we need to stay clear of (Zidane, Mourinho, Conte, anyone currently employed) but of the other options, who knows.

Now we're all owning up to our historical views.

Pretty sure I was an early detractor of Potter and slated our xG numbers even when he was injured.

I had recently come to accept that he would likely be here for a while and wanted to make the best of it.

Give him the benefit of the doubt.

Never wanted Tuchel sacked and cried about it on hear many times.

"Breakdown" - the guy was under a lot of pressure. He wasn't having a breakdown.

[Bones]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

Would not be surprised if Tiago S is asked to help out on the coaching side.

Also, This is the time when Neil Bath should step up and offer the likes of Andy Myers / Claude to help out the 1st team coaching squad. Would not hurt having a couple of true blues helping the coaching staff.

Yes indeed!

[Max Fowler]

I know we don't want to bang on about Tuchel but the biggest problem I had with him was he couldn't see it coming.

He should have been more aware that the new owners would have all these new ideas and he should have attended their meetings.

He takes 30% of the blame for being sacked with Boehly 70.

Who knows? Maybe he wouldn't have wanted to work under the new owners with their new ways of working anyway.

I'm not sure many of the top managers are so "collaborative" either and will want touchpoints every other day with Boehly.

Suspect Nagelsmann might have concerns about that and will be interesting to see if affects our ability to appoint.

Apparently the players have still been surprised at how much Boehly attends training. He needs to get out of the way.

 

[Bones]

40 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

TBF no one has an ounce of an idea of what Bruno is like as a coach, so it's difficult to pass judgement upon him when we've yet to see what can he do. If anything, a lack of a Chelsea reputation and being connected to Brighton/Potter is largely why some are dismissing him.

An interim is just that, a temporary place holder until we find a more suitable permanent option. Given we've kinda got this next decision right, and the nature of this season largely being a write off as it is, there's not much left to really lose.

Possibly. Bruno might be a good coach who knows, but we should be building around people who are true blues.

As ROTG said above we need an elite persona football wise amongst the assistant coaching staff, someone who is a true blue and radiates the vibe of the club.

[Bones]

Just now, Max Fowler said:

I know we don't want to bang on about Tuchel but the biggest problem I had with him was he couldn't see it coming.

He should have been more aware that the new owners would have all these new ideas and he should have attended their meetings.

He takes 30% of the blame for being sacked with Boehly 70.

Who knows? Maybe he wouldn't have wanted to work under the new owners with their new ways of working anyway.

I'm not sure many of the top managers are so "collaborative" either and will want touchpoints every other day with Boehly.

Suspect Nagelsmann might have concerns about that and will be interesting to see if affects our ability to appoint.

Apparently the players have still been surprised at how much Boehly attends training. He needs to get out of the way.

 

It just seemed to me he needed half a year off to vent and relax.

He is ready now to return to coaching it would have been a fairlytale if we could have signed him back now.

[Max Fowler]

1 minute ago, Bones said:

Possibly. Bruno might be a good coach who knows, but we should be building around people who are true blues.

As ROTG said above we need an elite persona football wise amongst the assistant coaching staff, someone who is a true blue and radiates the vibe of the club.

I agree -  but I also think the main reason people are dismissing him is he has NEVER MANAGED ONE GAME.

[CarefreeMuratcan]

Just now, Bones said:

Possibly. Bruno might be a good coach who knows, but we should be building around people who are true blues.

As ROTG said above we need an elite persona football wise amongst the assistant coaching staff, someone who is a true blue and radiates the vibe of the club.

I agree with this for the staff in general, not only coaching but off the pitch stuff too. It's why I was sad to see Cech leave.