Nottingham Forest 2 Chelsea 3

[east lower]

1 hour ago, Thiago97 said:

This is so misleading. He didn’t play for pens in a cup final. It was obvious what he tried to do once extra time came. He tried playing counter attack against what was a very young and experienced Liverpool team. He banked on them making a mistake. It didn’t happen and was the wrong call. 
 

Not really, not sure what you’re basing that assumption on - but it’s contrary to the fella’s own words:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13125743/Jamie-Carragher-stunned-Mauricio-Pochettino-admits-Chelsea-felt-penalties-good-following-dire-extra-time-display-Carabao-Cup-defeat-Liverpool.html

https://talksport.com/football/1763636/mauricio-pochettino-wanted-chelsea-penalty-shootout-against-liverpool/amp/
 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/chelsea-carragher-pochettino-penalties-liverpool-32213177.amp

Not good enough for any team wanting to challenge for any trophies. But  it was most certainly the wrong call. As was the semi-final team sheet and he’s done it wrong for at least three teams when there are big games or calls to make.

Edited May 7 by east lower

[Thiago97]

55 minutes ago, east lower said:

Not really, not sure what you’re basing that assumption on - but it’s contrary to the fella’s own words:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13125743/Jamie-Carragher-stunned-Mauricio-Pochettino-admits-Chelsea-felt-penalties-good-following-dire-extra-time-display-Carabao-Cup-defeat-Liverpool.html

https://talksport.com/football/1763636/mauricio-pochettino-wanted-chelsea-penalty-shootout-against-liverpool/amp/
 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/chelsea-carragher-pochettino-penalties-liverpool-32213177.amp

Not good enough for any team wanting to challenge for any trophies. But  it was most certainly the wrong call. As was the semi-final team sheet and he’s done it wrong for at least three teams when there are big games or calls to make.

So you are happy to go with  what Jamie Carragher’s opinion on a Chelsea matter that didn’t work out vs Liverpool? A guy with a strong  track record for negative  sniping at Chelsea for what , let’s say the last two decades !

Quoting Carragher on anything Chelsea related couldn’t have less credibility.

Edited May 7 by Thiago97

[NoblyBobly]

2 hours ago, Thiago97 said:

This is so misleading. He didn’t play for pens in a cup final. It was obvious what he tried to do once extra time came. He tried playing counter attack against what was a very young and experienced Liverpool team. He banked on them making a mistake. It didn’t happen and was the wrong call. 
Agree with the comments about ending the season well though. I do think these things can have an influence going into a new season, albeit relatively minor. 

I didn’t mean he entered the game with a plan to go to pens ( obviously not) . I’m saying that after full time , when we had them on the ropes he didn’t go for the jugular , he went for pens. That isn’t misleading , that is what Poch actually said. 
I’m assuming  you made a typo when you said Liverpool had an “experienced “ team in extra time. They were very young and  very inexperienced , hence the gags going around that the team had failed a drug test and tested positive for Calpol. The dippers made enormous mileage out of the fact their injury racked b team had beaten our first team. You can’t blame them. 
it was appalling management and I would say cowardly management. I’m not going to airbrush what has gone on this season because we have put a three game run together. Having said that , I commend Boehly for letting Poch finish the season , but I wonder whether he has already set the ball rolling with another appointment. And tbh you can’t blame him. After the Arsenal game , everything looked lost. 

[Thiago97]

9 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

I didn’t mean he entered the game with a plan to go to pens ( obviously not) . I’m saying that after full time , when we had them on the ropes he didn’t go for the jugular , he went for pens. That isn’t misleading , that is what Poch actually said. 
I’m assuming  you made a typo when you said Liverpool had an “experienced “ team in extra time. They were very young and  very inexperienced , hence the gags going around that the team had failed a drug test and tested positive for Calpol. The dippers made enormous mileage out of the fact their injury racked b team had beaten our first team. You can’t blame them. 
it was appalling management and I would say cowardly management. I’m not going to airbrush what has gone on this season because we have put a three game run together. Having said that , I commend Boehly for letting Poch finish the season , but I wonder whether he has already set the ball rolling with another appointment. And tbh you can’t blame him. After the Arsenal game , everything looked lost. 

It was a typo and I meant inexperienced, which become even more inexperienced as the game went on. I don’t believe he did play for pens from extra time, I agree he got it wrong though. I genuinely believe he thought their lack of experience would lead to a mistake, so he tried getting us to sit in and hit them on the break when that mistake happened. We should have gone for the jugular, as we were the better team on the day. 

[NoblyBobly]

11 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

It was a typo and I meant inexperienced, which become even more inexperienced as the game went on. I don’t believe he did play for pens from extra time, I agree he got it wrong though. I genuinely believe he thought their lack of experience would lead to a mistake, so he tried getting us to sit in and hit them on the break when that mistake happened. We should have gone for the jugular, as we were the better team on the day. 

I also find it hard to believe that he would play for pens in extra time but unfortunately that is what he said his plan was,  so no real point in debating that ( unless he was lying for some reason). 
After being all over them like a rash at the end of full time, he reverted to defensive posture which invited them onto us and completely changed the dynamic of the game ( which we subsequently lost). 
Did you defend that tactic at the time, because I seem to recall a forum that unanimously condemned it? 

[east lower]

1 hour ago, Thiago97 said:

So you are happy to go with  what Jamie Carragher’s opinion on a Chelsea matter that didn’t work out vs Liverpool? A guy with a strong  track record for negative  sniping at Chelsea for what , let’s say the last two decades !

Quoting Carragher on anything Chelsea related couldn’t have less credibility.

No, I'm quoting three separate reports, and two quote the coach personally. You were incorrect, both in the assessment that the coach played on the break and that he did not say he and the team had played for penalties, so throwing Carragher's name in counts for nowt - as I suspect you well know.

[thevelourfog]

14 hours ago, Ham said:

Doesn't a fellow relegation threatened team play before Forest?  If so, they could be playing for nothing. 

You're right, for some reason thought Luton played on Sunday. If they and Burnley both lose their 3pms, Forest are effectively safe (something like a 12 goal swing would be needed on the last day!).

[Thiago97]

1 hour ago, east lower said:

No, I'm quoting three separate reports, and two quote the coach personally. You were incorrect, both in the assessment that the coach played on the break and that he did not say he and the team had played for penalties, so throwing Carragher's name in counts for nowt - as I suspect you well know.

To be honest, I didn't read the links first time, cos seeing Carragher's name attached just completley devalued it for me. He is just disingenuous on anything when it comes to clubs he hates. 

I still believe my overriding viewpoint though. We have all seen and heard many interviews from Poch where it's not 100% clear with what he is exactly saying. His English is decent , but also lacks the depth and context, something I think he has also used to his advantage over the years. So for Poch to say a comment along the lines of what he did referencing penalties, does not straight up translate to we were playing for penalties. I firmly stand by my view that he tried to play more counter attack in that extra time period, expecting that a young and naive Liverpool team would make an error that we could punish.

Ultimately, where we agree is it was a wrong call either way. There is just no logic to any manager playing and instructing his team to aim for what is effectively a coin toss, in a scenario where you have been marginally the better team for 90 minutes. It just doesn't make sense for any manager to do this, so some pigeon English comment the manager made afterwards, should not be taken as a literal tactic/aim in the context of the situation imo.  

[NoblyBobly]

If ever there was a definition of ‘must win games’, for Poch , he has them coming up. My sources say ( and I’m very well connected 🤣 ) say if he gets Europa league he stays. Let’s see if the players want him to stay… which I think they do. 

[ROTG]

2 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

If ever there was a definition of ‘must win games’, for Poch , he has them coming up. My sources say ( and I’m very well connected 🤣 ) say if he gets Europa league he stays. Let’s see if the players want him to stay… which I think they do. 

Poch hit the 50pts mark so he is guaranteed to stay, also it would look bad on the not so dynamic duo who championed him to Toddles and Eggy's.

Its all in the data 😮

[NoblyBobly]

6 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

To be honest, I didn't read the links first time, cos seeing Carragher's name attached just completley devalued it for me. He is just disingenuous on anything when it comes to clubs he hates. 

I still believe my overriding viewpoint though. We have all seen and heard many interviews from Poch where it's not 100% clear with what he is exactly saying. His English is decent , but also lacks the depth and context, something I think he has also used to his advantage over the years. So for Poch to say a comment along the lines of what he did referencing penalties, does not straight up translate to we were playing for penalties. I firmly stand by my view that he tried to play more counter attack in that extra time period, expecting that a young and naive Liverpool team would make an error that we could punish.

Ultimately, where we agree is it was a wrong call either way. There is just no logic to any manager playing and instructing his team to aim for what is effectively a coin toss, in a scenario where you have been marginally the better team for 90 minutes. It just doesn't make sense for any manager to do this, so some pigeon English comment the manager made afterwards, should not be taken as a literal tactic/aim in the context of the situation imo.  

Ok , I’ve re listened to the post match interview and his English and his grammar are fine. He claimed that at extra time some of the players were getting tired and losing energy and he thought that and said out loud ( and I quote) “ Maybe penalties would be good for us”.  That is why , instead of pushing for a winning goal, he tried to hang on to a draw. He said it with his own mouth , it’s on YouTube and it’s crystal clear. 
Now he might have had a point if we had been dead on our feet after 90 mins , but we weren’t …we were on top and looking most likely to score. If you are then faced with an injury ravaged side with a lot of young and inexperienced  players , what you do is pressure them , swarm them , force them into mistakes, capitalise on their inexperience. We did the opposite. We sat back. Let them have the ball and hoped to score on the break. This gave them confidence as they recognised OUR lack of confidence in winning the game. Not only that, but what is our record of pen shoot outs against the Dippers? It’s not as if we had 10 Lampards queuing up to take them. We’d have lost that too. 
If he stays , we can only hope we can only hope he learns from his mistakes and loses that rather cowardly part of his coaching tactic. We are Chelsea. Two times winners of the CL , 5 times winners of the PL  with more FA cups and League cups than you can shake a stick at. We are not Spurs. 
My desire for Ponch next season is to grow a pair. 

[NoblyBobly]

20 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Poch hit the 50pts mark so he is guaranteed to stay, also it would look bad on the not so dynamic duo who championed him to Toddles and Eggy's.

Its all in the data 😮

I will make you a sportsman’s bet that if we don’t get Europa , data says he’s off. 
50 pts guarantees you sweet FA. You’re sounding a bit Droy like there. 
 

[Thiago97]

1 minute ago, NoblyBobly said:

Ok , I’ve re listened to the post match interview and his English and his grammar are fine. He claimed that at extra time some of the players were getting tired and losing energy and he thought that and said out loud ( and I quote) “ Maybe penalties would be good for us”.  That is why , instead of pushing for a winning goal, he tried to hang on to a draw. He said it with his own mouth , it’s on YouTube and it’s crystal clear. 
Now he might have had a point if we had been dead on our feet after 90 mins , but we weren’t …we were on top and looking most likely to score. If you are then faced with an injury ravaged side with a lot of young and inexperienced  players , what you do is pressure them , swarm them , force them into mistakes, capitalise on their inexperience. We did the opposite. We sat back. Let them have the ball and hoped to score on the break. This gave them confidence as they recognised OUR lack of confidence in winning the game. Not only that, but what is our record of pen shoot outs against the Dippers? It’s not as if we had 10 Lampards queuing up to take them. We’d have lost that too. 
If he stays , we can only hope we can only hope he learns from his mistakes and loses that rather cowardly part of his coaching tactic. We are Chelsea. Two times winners of the CL , 5 times winners of the PL  with more FA cups and League cups than you can shake a stick at. We are not Spurs. 
My desire for Ponch next season is to grow a pair. 

That's fine if you want to take that comment as literally saying this was our aim. Personally, all managers say comments that should not be translated as literal as the words they are saying. I think this is one of them. We agree to differ here.

[NoblyBobly]

9 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

That's fine if you want to take that comment as literally saying this was our aim. Personally, all managers say comments that should not be translated as literal as the words they are saying. I think this is one of them. We agree to differ here.

It wasn’t lost in translation, we was speaking plain  English…. “ maybe penalties would be good for us”.  Now maybe you’re right and what he was really thinking was “ no way do I want the lottery of a pen shoot . We are on top here and we need to put this bunch of shite to the sword”.   I wonder if he’s as vague in his team talks ‘ don’t do as I say but do as I think’.
Perhaps you have access to the inner workings of our coaches mind, or perhaps you can’t quite believe he said and meant those words.  But he said them, and he didn’t retract or clarify them. It really isn’t a difference of our opinions.  

[paulw66]

14 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

It wasn’t lost in translation, we was speaking plain  English…. “ maybe penalties would be good for us”.  Now maybe you’re right and what he was really thinking was “ no way do I want the lottery of a pen shoot . We are on top here and we need to put this bunch of shite to the sword”.   I wonder if he’s as vague in his team talks ‘ don’t do as I say but do as I think’.
Perhaps you have access to the inner workings of our coaches mind, or perhaps you can’t quite believe he said and meant those words.  But he said them, and he didn’t retract or clarify them. It really isn’t a difference of our opinions.  

Nicely cropped

The team felt maybe penalties would be good for us

I guess it depends on what the definition of "the team" is. Is it the management, or is it the players, or both? We don't know. 

[paulw66]

3 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

 They were very young and  very inexperienced , hence the gags going around that the team had failed a drug test and tested positive for Calpol. The dippers made enormous mileage out of the fact their injury racked b team had beaten our first team. You can’t blame them. 

The average of our team was significantly lower than theirs, even in extra time. 

But I agree, we could and should have gone for it more. 

[martin1905]

47 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

I will make you a sportsman’s bet that if we don’t get Europa , data says he’s off. 
50 pts guarantees you sweet FA. You’re sounding a bit Droy like there. 
 

It's ridiculous that he thinks after all the money spent the board set him a target of 50 points. 

I doubt even he believes what he writes but if he says it enough it must make it true!

[NoblyBobly]

19 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

The average of our team was significantly lower than theirs, even in extra time. 

But I agree, we could and should have gone for it more. 

Oh it was , no doubt. That was bs that they had babies and we had men.  However we had World Cup winners and very experienced players amongst our young players.  The point made should have been that we had more experience PL players than them. The media LOVED the other narrative . I mean would anyone call Cole Palmer a novice just because he’s young? 

[paulw66]

Just now, NoblyBobly said:

Oh it was , no doubt. That was bs that they had babies and we had men.  However we had World Cup winners and very experienced players amongst our young players.  The point made should have been that we had more experience PL players than them. The media LOVED the other narrative . I mean would anyone call Cole Palmer a novice just because he’s young? 

True. You would think from the aftermath, we had a load of 27/28 year olds playing against their teenagers. 

Anyway, Forest away. Think it will be a very tough game. Important to score first, methinks. 

[ROTG]

30 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

It's ridiculous that he thinks after all the money spent the board set him a target of 50 points. 

I doubt even he believes what he writes but if he says it enough it must make it true!

Of course I believe what I write. 
Poch as a coach is not the issue as proven at his previous clubs that he is a 60pts plus coach.  Unfortunately it is the playing staff are the issue. The league doesn’t lie. 
 

Also who else can the not so dynamic duo turn to?  As proven last summer top coaches are not interested in the Chelsea Philosophy or the current hierarchy structure. 

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, NoblyBobly said:

I will make you a sportsman’s bet that if we don’t get Europa , data says he’s off. 
50 pts guarantees you sweet FA. You’re sounding a bit Droy like there. 
 

Done. 
two pints of larger and packet of  crisps 😀

[JonnyCFC]

As this game kicks off at 5.30pm on Saturday does that mean it’s shown on tv?

As it’s not saying it’s on tv on the Chels website?

 

[Thiago97]

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

Nicely cropped

The team felt maybe penalties would be good for us

I guess it depends on what the definition of "the team" is. Is it the management, or is it the players, or both? We don't know. 

Which is kind of the point I’m making. This does not translate to Poch being the manager and targeting penalties from extra time. There is enough ambiguity in what he said post match. Even the word maybe, could be taken in a sense that Poch is questioning this . It’s not cut and dry that it is the managers request. Which was my overriding point here . 

[Miguelito07]

15 minutes ago, JonnyCFC said:

As this game kicks off at 5.30pm on Saturday does that mean it’s shown on tv?

As it’s not saying it’s on tv on the Chels website?

 

its on Sky Sports

Live Football Games - Watch Football on TV | Sky Sports

[martin1905]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

Of course I believe what I write. 
Poch as a coach is not the issue as proven at his previous clubs that he is a 60pts plus coach.  Unfortunately it is the playing staff are the issue. The league doesn’t lie. 
 

Also who else can the not so dynamic duo turn to?  As proven last summer top coaches are not interested in the Chelsea Philosophy or the current hierarchy structure. 

So you think the board spent all that money on players they knew were shit and set a target of 50 points?