Sleeping Dave Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 24 minutes ago, xceleryx said: Whether or not you deem the others better or starting material doesn't make Chalobah any more the solution. It would have saved us a lot of money for no material impact on quality. So there's your answer. That alone is enough for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chara Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 I posted a while back that the general approach to players over here particularly in NFL,is subtly,or perhaps not, different from the way players are seen elsewhere, With a few well publisised exceptions there does not appear to be the same "fondness" and connection to players representing a club that we have for "our" players. The player as a commodity easily moved around a specific sport is casually accepted and generally the feelings across our game regarding disloyal, as we judge it, actions from players and the "not at any price" transfers in are not part of the Sports scenario here. I think perhaps this mindset is part of the New Regime...a terrible mistake imho. Worth a thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeping Dave Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 Maresca confirming the club has decided to leave Chalobah at home due to having other options at CB (he mentions Disasi, Fofana and Acheampong). So the club is actively pushing him out. I really feel for Trevoh. It won’t be any lack of interest for him. He’ll play in the PL this season if he wants to. So that’s us selling defenders like Guehi, Tomori, Maatsen, Hall, Livramento and now Chalobah. That’s 6 players who would all be good enough to be part of the squad. Instead we pay silly money for a LB2 or CB4. Geniuses. 🤷🏻♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 1 hour ago, Sleeping Dave said: So that’s us selling defenders like Guehi, Tomori, Maatsen, Hall, Livramento and now Chalobah. That’s 6 players who would all be good enough to be part of the squad. Instead we pay silly money for a LB2 or CB4. Geniuses. 🤷🏻♂️ Not blaming the bolded ones on Todd, are you? It's old ground but Guehi and Livramento wouldn't sign new contracts, and Tomori wasn't getting a game, so made sense to let him go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeping Dave Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 5 minutes ago, paulw66 said: Not blaming the bolded ones on Todd, are you? It's old ground but Guehi and Livramento wouldn't sign new contracts, and Tomori wasn't getting a game, so made sense to let him go. No of course not. But it is very depressing to see how we have wasted the best bunch of academy players ever coming out of the club and only managed to have three (potentially only two) of them as part of the squad. IMO our squad should have looked something like this today; GK: GK1, Petrovic, Bettinelli RB: James, Livramento CB: CB1, Colwill, Guehi, Chalobah, Tomori LB: Chilwell, Maatsen, Hall CM: CM1, Caicedo, Mount, Gallagher, Loftus-Cheek RW: Palmer, Nkunku, Madueke LW: LW1, Hudson-Odoi, George S: S1, Abraham I concede that you can argue about the small details in what I've outlined above, but the main point remain - by utilising the academy players like this we could focus on truly world class players throughout the central line and where the academy players aren't good enough for being genuine starters. GK1 James CB1 Colwill Chilwell CM1 Caicedo Mount Palmer S1 LW1 But this has not been the strategy in the slightest, instead we are selling off the academy and replacing them with absolute fucking rubbish like Washington, Angelo and the likes who will never contribute to anything meaningful. But what really grates me big time is that we are pouring massive money buying players like Ugochukwu, Chukwuemeka, Fofana, Badiashile, Disasi, Cucurella and the likes for no good reason at all. I swear that I'd build a far better squad at Chelsea than what the current ownership has managed. I'd also do it for a lot less money spent. You could spend £500m for the five holes in this squad and I promise you this is a top 4 side for years to come. No sweat. How much have we spent over the last three windows? 22/23 we bought players for €630m. 23/24 we bought players for €464m. So far this window that's €112m. All this money spent and the only viable starters we managed to snap up for €1.12B (net spend €770m) is Caicedo and Palmer. It really is that bad. Our recruitment strategy is probably the worst in world football. The reason why we haven't been able to keep hold of our best prospects is because they have known how we operate. If you throw the academy on the wayside for expensive foreign imports who are no better than of course you leave. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeping Dave Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 Trying to focus on how the squad may look like come start of the season. Given what we have available at the club right now, I predict the following squad: GK: Sanchez, Petrovic, Bettinelli RB: James, Gusto LB: Cucurella, Chilwell CB: Colwill, Disasi, Badiashile, Fofana, Adarabioyo, Acheampong DM: Caicedo, Lavia CM: Fernandez, Gallagher, Dewsbury-Hall, Chukwuemeka AM: Palmer, Nkunku, Sterling, Mudryk, Madueke, George S: Jackson, Guiu 27 players with Acheampong, George and Guiu being proper youngsters in the squad just to learn. They are likely off on loan in 25/26. Loan out (22): Slonina, Bergström, Beach, Gilchrist, Humphreys, Wiley, Samuels-Smith, Ugochukwu, Veiga, Tauriainen, Casadei, Matos, Santos, Castledine, Kellyman, Vale, Moreira, Gabriel, DD Fofana, Washington, Burstow, Richards Sell/release (6): Arrizabalaga, Chalobah, Sarr, Anjorin, Broja, Lukaku Looking at this, I think it is clear we lack another goalscorer to ease the burden on Jackson and Palmer. Sure, Nkunku may sparkle this season. But even so, I'd feel a whole lot better with another striker in place. Having Guiu as S2 on paper (won't happen, Pamler, Nkunku, Sterling will play ahead of him) doesn't fill one with confidence. So, ideally a new GK1 and a proper striker who can add another 15 goals across the season would be nice. If Gallagher and Chilwell are sold as rumoured, then a space opens up for either Ugochukwu or Santos and most likely Veiga. Disclaimer: I'm never right when trying to predict these things, so I'm sure it will look a lot different once the window closes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulw66 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 33 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said: Trying to focus on how the squad may look like come start of the season. Given what we have available at the club right now, I predict the following squad: GK: Sanchez, Petrovic, Bettinelli RB: James, Gusto LB: Cucurella, Chilwell CB: Colwill, Disasi, Badiashile, Fofana, Adarabioyo, Acheampong DM: Caicedo, Lavia CM: Fernandez, Gallagher, Dewsbury-Hall, Chukwuemeka AM: Palmer, Nkunku, Sterling, Mudryk, Madueke, George S: Jackson, Guiu The balance of this looks about right. Any "ins" are going to mean some "outs" from the above. 33 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said: Loan out (22): Slonina, Bergström, Beach, Gilchrist, Humphreys, Wiley, Samuels-Smith, Ugochukwu, Veiga, Tauriainen, Casadei, Matos, Santos, Castledine, Kellyman, Vale, Moreira, Gabriel, DD Fofana, Washington, Burstow, Richards This bit looks challenging. Some people are going to be very busy. I would expect some of those to be sold. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiswickblue Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 3 hours ago, paulw66 said: The balance of this looks about right. Any "ins" are going to mean some "outs" from the above. This bit looks challenging. Some people are going to be very busy. I would expect some of those to be sold. The list also includes about 13 players that are either over 21 or not homegrown so only 6 of them can go overseas. I don't think the restriction applies to domestic loans yet but there's a limit to how many decent spots you can find in the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeping Dave Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 1 hour ago, chiswickblue said: The list also includes about 13 players that are either over 21 or not homegrown so only 6 of them can go overseas. I don't think the restriction applies to domestic loans yet but there's a limit to how many decent spots you can find in the Championship. Actually I think the U21 rules are the same as for how it’s classified for the CL squad (could be wrong though). If so, every single one of them classifies as a U21 (turning 22 within the current season). So I believe there are no restrictions in place for any of them. That being said, it’s not easy to find 22 loan deals in less than two months! But still, what are we supposed to do with them? Ugochukwu can still be part of the squad and not play very much. Veiga, Fofana, Santos and Casadei same. But the rest of them would be so far off senior squad quality there is no point keeping them around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiswickblue Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said: Actually I think the U21 rules are the same as for how it’s classified for the CL squad (could be wrong though). If so, every single one of them classifies as a U21 (turning 22 within the current season). So I believe there are no restrictions in place for any of them. That being said, it’s not easy to find 22 loan deals in less than two months! But still, what are we supposed to do with them? Ugochukwu can still be part of the squad and not play very much. Veiga, Fofana, Santos and Casadei same. But the rest of them would be so far off senior squad quality there is no point keeping them around. Unfortunately they have to be club-trained as per FIFA's regulations, which are the same as UEFA's club-trained criteria and not as generous as the Premier League's squad rules! Club-trained player: a player who, between the age of 15 (or the start of the season during which he turns 15) and 21 (or the end of the season during which he turns 21), and irrespective of his nationality and age, registered with his current club for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons or of 36 months. Edited July 24 by chiswickblue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeping Dave Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 14 minutes ago, chiswickblue said: Unfortunately they have to be club-trained as per FIFA's regulations, which are the same as UEFA's club-trained criteria and not as generous as the Premier League's squad rules! Club-trained player: a player who, between the age of 15 (or the start of the season during which he turns 15) and 21 (or the end of the season during which he turns 21), and irrespective of his nationality and age, registered with his current club for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons or of 36 months. I’m confused. You have to be essentially club trained to be able to be sent out on loan? Is that only foreign loan or is that also true for loans within the UK? Sure there are 6 exemptions, but come on. We have way more players than that. If yes, then our recruitment strategy is beyond retarded. There’s no way to give these players the minutes they need! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiswickblue Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 2 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said: I’m confused. You have to be essentially club trained to be able to be sent out on loan? Is that only foreign loan or is that also true for loans within the UK? Sure there are 6 exemptions, but come on. We have way more players than that. If yes, then our recruitment strategy is beyond retarded. There’s no way to give these players the minutes they need! At the moment this only applies to international loans but the FA is supposed to align its own regulations by next year: https://inside.fifa.com/about-fifa/organisation/media-releases/fifa-to-introduce-new-loan-regulations This was meant to reduce player hoarding and limit loans to U21 club-trained players. We are quickly going in the opposite direction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeping Dave Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 11 hours ago, chiswickblue said: At the moment this only applies to international loans but the FA is supposed to align its own regulations by next year: https://inside.fifa.com/about-fifa/organisation/media-releases/fifa-to-introduce-new-loan-regulations This was meant to reduce player hoarding and limit loans to U21 club-trained players. We are quickly going in the opposite direction! I'm not sure you are right here mate. Every player on my loan list is under 21, or turns 22 within this season. It is my understadning that you can count as a U21 if that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiswickblue Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 44 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said: I'm not sure you are right here mate. Every player on my loan list is under 21, or turns 22 within this season. It is my understadning that you can count as a U21 if that is the case. For the Premier League squad rules, yes. But for the international loan rules you have to be U21 and club-trained. Only the six exceptions allowed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledblue Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 How are we back to Sanchez in goal...dreadful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, exiledblue said: How are we back to Sanchez in goal...dreadful I thought he did really well. Eddie Beach had a mare though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallgalley Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 2 hours ago, Ham said: I thought he did really well. Eddie Beach had a mare though. I thought he was on the bench all game.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 hour ago, hallgalley said: I thought he was on the bench all game.. Sorry, Bergstrom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chara Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 minute ago, Ham said: Sorry, Bergstrom. I thought I saw Del Boy in the crowd but dismissed it until I saw Rodney in goal for the second half... (as was pointed out earlier)I guess the Trigger name thing is not just Trigger but not surprising given the Chelsea ruling pair, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiswickblue Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Some players we might want to loan but they aren't U21 and club-trained so only 6 of them can go overseas: Ugochukwa (keep?) Casadei Washington Bergström Burstow D Fofana Angelo Gabriel (Strasbourg?) Kellyman Guiu (keep?) Andrey Santos (Strasbourg?) Slonina Veiga Wiley (Strasbourg?) Moreira Richards Assuming we sell/release: Sarr, Kepa, Lukaku, Anjorin, Broja I don't see how we're going to find spots for all of these players to continue their development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lump Of Celery Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 hour ago, chiswickblue said: Some players we might want to loan but they aren't U21 and club-trained so only 6 of them can go overseas: Ugochukwa (keep?) Casadei Washington Bergström Burstow D Fofana Angelo Gabriel (Strasbourg?) Kellyman Guiu (keep?) Andrey Santos (Strasbourg?) Slonina Veiga Wiley (Strasbourg?) Moreira Richards Assuming we sell/release: Sarr, Kepa, Lukaku, Anjorin, Broja I don't see how we're going to find spots for all of these players to continue their development. It is madness, their will have to be a lot of domestic loans which i think will see a few drop down to the championship to get game time. And then at the end of the window any player that is left in limbo with no loan spot their value will absolutely plummet as teams will know we are desperate and have to sell. I think Veiga, Guiu and one of Santos or Les may stay I'm not sure what happens next year when the fa rules align. Does that mean 6 x domestic loans and 6 x foreign loans available, or just 6 loan spots available in total. I don't really see what the point of Strasbourg being in the group is atm, there are 4-5 on that list that should have signed there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 2 hours ago, chiswickblue said: Some players we might want to loan but they aren't U21 and club-trained so only 6 of them can go overseas: Ugochukwa (keep?) Casadei Washington Bergström Burstow D Fofana Angelo Gabriel (Strasbourg?) Kellyman Guiu (keep?) Andrey Santos (Strasbourg?) Slonina Veiga Wiley (Strasbourg?) Moreira Richards Assuming we sell/release: Sarr, Kepa, Lukaku, Anjorin, Broja I don't see how we're going to find spots for all of these players to continue their development. Fiorentina want Casadei, unsure if that's a loan or an outright purchase though. Santos is heading back to Strasbourg and already agreed I believe, similar case with the recently signed Wiley. Sarr has left already and joined Lens on a free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeping Dave Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 23 hours ago, chiswickblue said: For the Premier League squad rules, yes. But for the international loan rules you have to be U21 and club-trained. Only the six exceptions allowed. 5 hours ago, chiswickblue said: Some players we might want to loan but they aren't U21 and club-trained so only 6 of them can go overseas: Ugochukwa (keep?) Casadei Washington Bergström Burstow D Fofana Angelo Gabriel (Strasbourg?) Kellyman Guiu (keep?) Andrey Santos (Strasbourg?) Slonina Veiga Wiley (Strasbourg?) Moreira Richards Assuming we sell/release: Sarr, Kepa, Lukaku, Anjorin, Broja I don't see how we're going to find spots for all of these players to continue their development. 4 hours ago, Lump Of Celery said: It is madness, their will have to be a lot of domestic loans which i think will see a few drop down to the championship to get game time. And then at the end of the window any player that is left in limbo with no loan spot their value will absolutely plummet as teams will know we are desperate and have to sell. I think Veiga, Guiu and one of Santos or Les may stay I'm not sure what happens next year when the fa rules align. Does that mean 6 x domestic loans and 6 x foreign loans available, or just 6 loan spots available in total. I don't really see what the point of Strasbourg being in the group is atm, there are 4-5 on that list that should have signed there If you’re right @chiswickblue (and you seem to be) then our strategy is even more stupid than I initially thought. How anyone can defend this madness is beyond me (@martin1905 @xceleryx @Ham et al, I’m looking at you). Buying overpriced young players at the scale we have done was always a silly exercise. But knowing we can’t even get them all the minutes they need to develop is beyond stupid. Whoever devised the strategy needs a good sacking. Talk about burning money for no expected return. These clown need to get out of the club now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin1905 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 15 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said: If you’re right @chiswickblue (and you seem to be) then our strategy is even more stupid than I initially thought. How anyone can defend this madness is beyond me (@martin1905 @xceleryx @Ham et al, I’m looking at you). Buying overpriced young players at the scale we have done was always a silly exercise. But knowing we can’t even get them all the minutes they need to develop is beyond stupid. Whoever devised the strategy needs a good sacking. Talk about burning money for no expected return. These clown need to get out of the club now. Well, whilst it IS working, whatever you want to think, and we don't breach PSR I'm quite happy. What may or may not happen, time will tell but I'm not one to get annoyed at things that haven't happened and may never. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin1905 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) Ugochukwu, Washington, Angelo, Casadei, Santos, Fofana. That's 6 players right there that are all on 7 year contracts, low wages so a low book value. Pretty much guaranteed to sell them all in the next 3 years, so the next accounting period for PSR. Pretty much guaranteed to make profit on all of them, as a group, due to their low book value. The ones we bought after FIFA changed the rules on amortisation of contracts, well they will all be used in the accounting period after this one and again, low wages, low book value so by the time it comes to sell them guaranteed profit. We may not make money on an individual player but it's not about that It's all about 3 year accounting periods and getting through them. With numerous players on very low book values it's a pretty simple way of generating revenue. Its no longer about X amount of trasfer revenue coming in against X amount going out. It's working, whatever people want to say. It is working. Edited July 26 by martin1905 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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