Official: Enzo MARESCA announced as new Chelsea Head Coach

[Bob Singleton]

2 hours ago, Sabrina F. said:

Jackson picked up an ankle strain, which is usually estimated to be between 4 to 6 weeks.

He's probably individually training, and shoud be back training with the team sometime during the US tour.

That's what I was thinking.

[Sabrina F.]

It explains Broja's inclusion despite being on the "we really need the FFP money" transfer list with Chalobah.

[Miguelito07]

1 hour ago, Sabrina F. said:

It explains Broja's inclusion despite being on the "we really need the FFP money" transfer list with Chalobah.

David Forfana could have gone too but hey, lets buy him and sell him for nothing close to what we bought him for. FFS

[paulw66]

10 minutes ago, Miguelito07 said:

David Forfana could have gone too but hey, lets buy him and sell him for nothing close to what we bought him for. FFS

I full expect DDF to be sold for more than what we paid during the summer. Not a lot more, but more. 

[Bob Singleton]

5 hours ago, paulw66 said:

I full expect DDF to be sold for more than what we paid during the summer. Not a lot more, but more. 

Indeed. We bought him for €12m.  I can see us getting €15-€20m for him. After his wages, agent's fees etc., we'll probably break even (maybe even get enough to cover the taxi ride from the training ground to Stoke d'Ab station)

[ROTG]

8 hours ago, paulw66 said:

I full expect DDF to be sold for more than what we paid during the summer. Not a lot more, but more. 

I thought we brought him in potters January window?

[Backbiter]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

I thought we brought him in potters January window?

That's right.

[paulw66]

8 hours ago, ROTG said:

I thought we brought him in potters January window?

Maybe that was poor grammar. I meant when we sell him in the summer 

[Sleeping Dave]

11 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

Indeed. We bought him for €12m.  I can see us getting €15-€20m for him. After his wages, agent's fees etc., we'll probably break even (maybe even get enough to cover the taxi ride from the training ground to Stoke d'Ab station)

So a massive waste of time then? Begs the question, why did they bother in the first place? What do they think they achieve with stupid shit like that? 

[Sciatika]

Is it because they have no clue which will succeed and which will not? Noone does. If you buy a group of young players and all but one, don't make it, but you get a return that covers your outlay, then you are up in the books because of the one.

[paulw66]

1 hour ago, Sleeping Dave said:

So a massive waste of time then? Begs the question, why did they bother in the first place? What do they think they achieve with stupid shit like that? 

Begs the question, why so angry? So long as we don't lose money,  who cares?

I guess their hope, or gamble is that a player like him either grows and becomes good enough for the first team, or they can be sold at a profit. 

The whole system cannot really be judged case by case, but on the overall outcome. 

[Sleeping Dave]

1 hour ago, Sciatika said:

Is it because they have no clue which will succeed and which will not? Noone does. If you buy a group of young players and all but one, don't make it, but you get a return that covers your outlay, then you are up in the books because of the one.

I can assure you we won't make money from this strategy. Thinking that you can is foolish. You pay agents, you pay hefty transfer fees, you pay wage to the player.

When we also seemingly have no plan for how we are going to either;

1. Make them into genuine first team candidates or,

2. Increase their value with solid loans

Then what chance does this trategy have to succeed? 

[Sleeping Dave]

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

Begs the question, why so angry? So long as we don't lose money,  who cares?

I guess their hope, or gamble is that a player like him either grows and becomes good enough for the first team, or they can be sold at a profit. 

The whole system cannot really be judged case by case, but on the overall outcome. 

But what chance have we given him to be successful? One bad loan to Germany and then we flogged him to Burnley. Now we give up? It's money we spend on futile game slike this that should be used to actually improve the squad. Also, what does this do to the culture of the club? 

It lacks dignity and class. We treat the players like they are products we can sell/buy/loan however we want. Where is the humanity in this? The club is losing it's soul and very fast I might add. I'm angry because I genuinely think these clowns are the worst that could have happened to us as a club. The sooner they leave the better for all of us. 

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

Begs the question, why so angry? So long as we don't lose money,  who cares?

I guess their hope, or gamble is that a player like him either grows and becomes good enough for the first team, or they can be sold at a profit. 

The whole system cannot really be judged case by case, but on the overall outcome. 

Fingers crossed Brighton might come back for him. 

[xceleryx]

3 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

So a massive waste of time then? Begs the question, why did they bother in the first place? What do they think they achieve with stupid shit like that? 

Can't win either way with people like yourself.

 Don't buy talent early enough before they fully blossom and end up elsewhere, complain. Spend money on big name established players that flop and then become difficult to sell, complain. 

It's all a little like trying to piss into the wind.

[ROTG]

^^^^^^^
nobody wins with you, hiding behind the ignore button. 

[Sleeping Dave]

9 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Can't win either way with people like yourself.

 Don't buy talent early enough before they fully blossom and end up elsewhere, complain. Spend money on big name established players that flop and then become difficult to sell, complain. 

It's all a little like trying to piss into the wind.

LOL. You're funny. 

Tell me how we have given him the right conditions to blossom? I'll wait. 

[Bison]

15 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

I can assure you we won't make money from this strategy. Thinking that you can is foolish. You pay agents, you pay hefty transfer fees, you pay wage to the player.

When we also seemingly have no plan for how we are going to either;

1. Make them into genuine first team candidates or,

2. Increase their value with solid loans

Then what chance does this trategy have to succeed? 

It's a strategy top clubs don't entertain because it's a pointless exercise. Nobody is going to buy Angelo, Casadei or Datro Fofana for 30m each. We're now lumbered with three young players on multi year contracts who will take up loan spots for the foreseeable future. 

[paulw66]

26 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

 

It lacks dignity and class. We treat the players like they are products we can sell/buy/loan however we want. Where is the humanity in this? The club is losing it's soul and very fast I might add. I'm angry because I genuinely think these clowns are the worst that could have happened to us as a club. The sooner they leave the better for all of us. 

Come on, this is hardly 12 years a slave.

Nobody forces these players to sign for us and earn a weekly salary that most of us would happily earn in a year.

Poor lambs. 

[xceleryx]

31 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

LOL. You're funny. 

Tell me how we have given him the right conditions to blossom? I'll wait. 

Not every talent purchased has the end goal of being developed into first team players for ourselves, that's kinda the whole point of having many stokes in the fire.

The majority will be purchased with the notion of being flipped and using natural football inflation to elevate prices, plus the assumption they'll have a degree of development in that period. The key, and this has shown with quite a few we've purchased within this bracket, is the buy in cost has to be manageable. Players like Casadei, DD Fofana, Hutchinson (prior to sale), etc fall into this sort of bracket. 

Should any excel beyond exception then the opportunity to pivot and keep these players ourselves is there, otherwise they can be used  to allow further spending.

Really isn't that big of a deal IMO. 🤷‍♂️

[Sleeping Dave]

1 hour ago, Bison said:

It's a strategy top clubs don't entertain because it's a pointless exercise. Nobody is going to buy Angelo, Casadei or Datro Fofana for 30m each. We're now lumbered with three young players on multi year contracts who will take up loan spots for the foreseeable future. 

Exactly. Do you see any other top club doing this at this scale? No. Have we tried this before? Yes. Was it successful? No. Is there any reason why these clowns should be able to do it better than under Roman? No, quite the opposite in fact. 

And as you rightly point out. We now have stalwarts like Washington, Angelo, Moreira, Wiley, Casadei, Santos, Kellyman, Veiga, Guiu, Fofana, Chukwuemeka, Ugochukwu who will block our own academy players (who in most cases are just as good, if not better) from going on loan. Not just in the short term, but for the next 5-7 years. They are all on long contracts, and bought for quite a hefty sum. £19m for Kellyman was it? 2 apps for Villa... Imagine how good he must become under our ownership for us to make a profit on him. Imagine believing that a strategy where you buy dearly for questionable quality is some master plan to make money for the club. How delusional must you be? 

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

Come on, this is hardly 12 years a slave.

Nobody forces these players to sign for us and earn a weekly salary that most of us would happily earn in a year.

Poor lambs. 

I suppose you couldn't find any good arguments then? 

[Sleeping Dave]

38 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Not every talent purchased has the end goal of being developed into first team players for ourselves, that's kinda the whole point of having many stokes in the fire.

The majority will be purchased with the notion of being flipped and using natural football inflation to elevate prices, plus the assumption they'll have a degree of development in that period. The key, and this has shown with quite a few we've purchased within this bracket, is the buy in cost has to be manageable. Players like Casadei, DD Fofana, Hutchinson (prior to sale), etc fall into this sort of bracket. 

Should any excel beyond exception then the opportunity to pivot and keep these players ourselves is there, otherwise they can be used  to allow further spending.

Really isn't that big of a deal IMO. 🤷‍♂️

Sorry but this argument is laughable. Football inflation? That is not only applicable to overpriced foreign imports, it is just as true for the players you develop in your own academy. So I'm not buying that ragument for a second. 

So still, we've paid +€150m for Kellyman, Veiga, Wiley, Guiu, Washington, Angelo, Fofana, Slonina, Chukwuemeka, Casadei, Santos. If you think we will be able to recoup that money within their contract length with us you're delusional. Add salary cost, add money to agents. Add the opportunity cost as well when someone like Angelo takes up a loan spot from someone from the academy. These guys will need to sell at an average fee of €25m for us to go past break-even. If you think we will be successfull with that I think you could believe anything. 

On top of this, take someone like Lavia, 30 senior apps and we pay £60m for him. Ugochukwu is what, £25m? Fofana £80m? So not only do we spend ridiculous money on a strategy that is bound to fail, we also do silly things when it comes to our recruitment for the senior squad. 

We also can't hire managers. We can't get the clubs football people to know what they are doing. We piss off the fans. We do everything we can to get all that was good with Chelsea to leave the club (Fraser/Bath) and we refuse to use the academy most likely because it was built by Roman. I can honestly say that the current ownership is doing everything wrong here. Comfortably the worst owners of any major european club. Comfortably. 

[Sabrina F.]

I like what I see from Maresca and his training methods. Reminiscent of Sarri (which I know makes me in the minority to have  a positive association with that). 

It's the right objective to be able to control the ball, control possession as a way to create chances and maybe most importantly, prevent them.  It's variance minimization instead of last season's variance maximization. 

I would have wished  for someone with the same ideas, game models etc with a more substansive track record in implementing them at the highest level, but I'll just have to hope he can scale up, both in terms of his person as a coach, and his coaching ideas.

[paulw66]

47 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

 

I suppose you couldn't find any good arguments then? 

These players are going into this fully aware of what they are signing up to

[paulw66]

49 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

who will block our own academy players (who in most cases are just as good, if not better) from going on loan.

 

34 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Add the opportunity cost as well when someone like Angelo takes up a loan spot from someone from the academy.

Academy players U21 have unlimited loan spots.