West Ham United 1 Chelsea 1

[chara]

I have just watched the game in relative calmness and with a conscious effort not to interpret the game to fit my views on GP and the present state of play.

I have to agree with the last two posts here and indeed with the overall views expressed by all on here.

If all the offside goals had been allowed to stand that would have probably been a fair result and reflection of the game giving WH a shade of benefit of the doubt as 3-1 would have looked a bit unfair..to me anyway...but not unreasonable.

Great to see the Felix goal as if it was the easiest thing in the world for him and he knew exactly what he was going to do , so for me it was a goal before the ball reached him if that makes any sense.

Some thuggish tackles from WH somewhat ignored by the ref and the disgrace that was the waved away handball is mind boggling...the player only went down to get at the shot and repeated replays in calmness showed his palm out,,as per a keeper.. not a natural break fall action with his hand only intent on cushioning the "fall". (block).

Feel a bit easier about the Dortmund game but no Bad'ass in the squad is still a bit of a puzzle and worry.

Lot of serious pace and football ability in the squad now and far less of the inevitable knocking the ball around at the back  or the arriving en masse on the edge of the oppo box to repeat the passing exercise.

With complete bias towards my overall opinion of the situation I saw a group of talented players working out how to play together rather than trying to adhere to any coaching orders.

Bowen bouncing off James was a delight to see as was seeing RJ and Chilly back.

I believe Silva will be playing for another ten years at least and many of the players on show today will retire before him!

Again to fit my views,,not agenda... I think the potential of the young players being assembled plus the best of the rest is too "hot" for GP to handle and lead to long term success...but again..just my opinion.

[xceleryx]

9 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

He's being subbed every game which is very telling and wouldn't be getting a start at all if Chilwell was fully fit. Looks closer to a bargain basement £6 million player than one which cost a whopping 60 million.

Being subbed constantly as a fullback isn't that big of a surprise, it's a demanding position in modern football and we know Cucurella has had health issues on top. Not to say form hasn't always been a factor here, but there's other variables involved also. 

A fit Chilwell starting over Cucurella again isn't that great of a shock, he's our first choice option and Cucurella was brought in to provide competition. 

Cucurella was worth what the market and Brighton dictated at the time. He was nothing short of excellent last season, including great outings against us and picked up Brighton's POTY. He drew interest from arguably the best side in the league, and was tied down to Brighton long term. This is the nature of the beast, especially in the domestic market. 

Cucurella is fast becoming the new whipping boy, even when some of it is unjust. He is the easy target right now. 

[ROTG]

10 hours ago, McCreadie said:

My exact words were “This was an improvement, much as a few don’t want it to be.”

Which in my mind meant “This was an improvement. A few people refuse to acknowledge that, because of their deeply entrenched Potter-out agendas.”

“Improvement” to me, is “better play for longer periods”. Simple. We saw that. We need to keep seeing “improvement”, week on week.

It does seem to me, that to a few on here, “improvement” equals “win.” Or at least “cannot exist without win”.

 

 

 

 There is no agenda against potter and his coaching staff, it is very clear GP and his team do not have the knowledge or skill sets to get a team to reach a minimum of 75 pts in the PL regardless of the money spent on squad improvements. 

I cannot fathom how drawing against a team which was 17th in the league and not know for being a possession based team an improvement. It took moyes 10 minutes to counter whatever game plan GP had and thereafter the game was over. 

Maybe it a case of ambling along until June and hope the penny drops with  the new formed sports department and they hit the reset button. 
 

Edited February 12, 2023 by ROTG

[ROTG]

23 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Cucurella is fast becoming the new whipping boy, even when some of it is unjust. He is the easy target right now. 

He’s just not very good. Got a feeling Maatsen will give him a run for his money in pre-season. 

[boratsbrother]

8 hours ago, ROTG said:

He’s just not very good. 

Azpi, KK, Pulisic, Auba, Ziyech, RLC, Mendy, have all been consistently criticized for their performances this season so it's really not true that Cucu is being singled out. 

[Mark Kelly]

8 hours ago, ROTG said:

He’s just not very good. Got a feeling Maatsen will give him a run for his money in pre-season. 

It just goes to show how awful Lukaku was then because when we played Brighton , Cucurella made Lukaku look like a child , barging him off the ball like he was inconsequential.

Cucurella is a decent player , if anything he's suffering a crisis of confidence. 

[martin1905]

Only thing wrong with Cucurella is his price tag. He's nowhere near as bad as people are making out but it's no wonder City walked away at £30m.

A ridiculous amount of money but it's really not his fault.

[McCreadie]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

It just goes to show how awful Lukaku was then because when we played Brighton , Cucurella made Lukaku look like a child , barging him off the ball like he was inconsequential.

Cucurella is a decent player , if anything he's suffering a crisis of confidence. 

This.

[CarefreeMuratcan]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

Only thing wrong with Cucurella is his price tag. He's nowhere near as bad as people are making out but it's no wonder City walked away at £30m.

A ridiculous amount of money but it's really not his fault.

Our chaotic situation this season hasn't helped of course. I bet if he had ended up at City, he would have better found his feet more quickly. 

Cucu will come good once the structure around him is sorted. 

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

Azpi, KK, Pulisic, Auba, Ziyech, RLC, Mendy, have all been consistently criticized for their performances this season so it's really not true that Cucu is being singled out. 

He’s now being targeted by the opposition every game and looks every piece a £7m Brighton player. 

KK & PEA are non starters so they are irrelevant. 
 

Azpi, Pulisic, Ziyech, RLC, Mendy all earned their stripes winning trophies and continually getting the team into then CL and winning it.  

[ROTG]

3 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Cucurella is a decent player , if anything he's suffering a crisis of confidence. 

Maybe Lukaku had the same issue. 

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

Our chaotic situation this season hasn't helped of course. I bet if he had ended up at City, he would have better found his feet more quickly. 

Cucu will come good once the structure around him is sorted. 

You need a top draw coaching team to  build a structure. 
 

i hate to say this Ten Haig is a coach who improves teams by coaching and improves toilet players likes of wan-Bissaka to be good enough to use in the first team. 

[Mark Kelly]

7 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Maybe Lukaku had the same issue. 

Comfort eating?

[CarefreeMuratcan]

2 minutes ago, ROTG said:

You need a top draw coaching team to  build a structure. 
 

i hate to say this Ten Haig is a coach who improves teams by coaching and improves toilet players likes of wan-Bissaka to be good enough to use in the first team. 

I think Potter deserves time. Far too early to make these kind of rash calls. 

[ROTG]

13 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Comfort eating?

Well there is a good possibility he will be back next season 

 

13 minutes ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

I think Potter deserves time. Far too early to make these kind of rash calls. 

Disagree. 
good, bad or indifferent the club strives and normally succeeded at making the top 4 because the club hires winners and not a journey man, who claim to fame is keeping Brighton in the PL.

Edited February 13, 2023 by ROTG

[Rob B]

16 minutes ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

I think Potter deserves time. Far too early to make these kind of rash calls. 

Hmm fine line.  He deserves some time of course, but he also has to earn time.   I'm not quite sure where the line is, but he's probably quite close for me personally. 

What is giving me some comfort post West-Ham is that we had Reece James, RLC, Felix, Mudryk and Madueke who all started off the back of considerable spells out.  Add in an off-form Cucurella and Enzo starting only his second game, actually it's easy to see why we dropped points.  

Difficult to put dates / matches on these things but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a significant improvement in performances / results by this time next month - which is 6 matches.  Obviously not expecting perfection, but we should be seeing some green shoots IMO. 

[CarefreeMuratcan]

4 minutes ago, Rob B said:

Hmm fine line.  He deserves some time of course, but he also has to earn time.   I'm not quite sure where the line is, but he's probably quite close for me personally. 

What is giving me some comfort post West-Ham is that we had Reece James, RLC, Felix, Mudryk and Madueke who all started off the back of considerable spells out.  Add in an off-form Cucurella and Enzo starting only his second game, actually it's easy to see why we dropped points.  

Difficult to put dates / matches on these things but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a significant improvement in performances / results by this time next month - which is 6 matches.  Obviously not expecting perfection, but we should be seeing some green shoots IMO. 

Looking at the games themselves, and not the results, I think we have played well in the games against Fulham, the game against Liverpool and this West Ham game and have been incredibly unlucky to not win in my opinion.

It's different to how it was just before the World Cup and after the World Cup when we had some absolutely terrible performances. 

The on field performances are now there, just need to start getting the wins we have deserved. 

[Mark Kelly]

I think most of us are fairly non-plussed by Potter now , but it seems he's going to be the coach for a long time if you listen to the rumours that TB and the board believe he needs a lot longer to put his stamp on the side that are being reported. .

I think it would take something really major to get him out now , something news-worthy , like active demonstrations. 

However , lets just imagine that we got Poch as a new manager , with his modus operandi of collective fouling , sneaky fouls , pressurising the referee , debating every decision , diving , feigning injury , we'd have no players left by the end of the first month given how much the PGMOL are biased against us and more importantly pro whoever is playing against us. 

 

[ROTG]

11 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

However , lets just imagine that we got Poch as a new manager , with his modus operandi of collective fouling , sneaky fouls , pressurising the referee , debating every decision , diving , feigning injury , we'd have no players left by the end of the first month given how much the PGMOL are biased against us and more importantly pro whoever is playing against us. 

Yeah let imagine. 
A serial choker in finals who would get a better tune out of this lot. 

still do not want him at the club, however his CV is way better than team GP. 

[east lower]

27 minutes ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

Looking at the games themselves, and not the results, I think we have played well in the games against Fulham, the game against Liverpool and this West Ham game and have been incredibly unlucky to not win in my opinion.

It's different to how it was just before the World Cup and after the World Cup when we had some absolutely terrible performances. 

The on field performances are now there, just need to start getting the wins we have deserved. 

I love your optimism however the on-field performances and tactically naivety being displayed week-on-week do not show me we are getting any nearer becoming a better side. The results have been absolutely dire and we simply cannot win a game and haven't looked like winning a game for weeks.

We win 20 minute spells, but that won't win you games.

Declan Rice spoke after the game and said (not quotes from me, but words along the lines of) we spotted the weaknesses, the full backs were being exposed as the wide attackers were not tracking back and then exploited it. GP didn't counter that and WHU specifically targeted our L/H/S - Doesn't take a tactical genius to see why. Where did the goal come from, our left-hand side and no one gets within 5-10 yards of the fella mitting the cross in.

This season reminds me of the AVB and Avram Grant seasons - problem is we only have the one high-performing leader (Tiago Silva) to try and drag us through and it just isn't enough.  

I've seen enough to come up with a consensus and additional time isn't going to help much.

Our best performances under GP have come in the CL, so maybe this week might see an improved performance. If we don't beat Southampton on Saturday, I think that there will more than just murmuring's (from supporters) as regards Mr Potter's future. 

[Bob Singleton]

32 minutes ago, east lower said:

[SNIP]

Declan Rice spoke after the game and said (not quotes from me, but words along the lines of) we spotted the weaknesses, the full backs were being exposed as the wide attackers were not tracking back and then exploited it. GP didn't counter that and WHU specifically targeted our L/H/S - Doesn't take a tactical genius to see why. Where did the goal come from, our left-hand side and no one gets within 5-10 yards of the fella mitting the cross in.

[SNIP]

While I don't doubt that opposition managers are 'enjoying' playing against us at the moment, this is just another form of mindless Cucurella bashing. He received what was in essence a hospital pass and lost the ball. One can argue until the cows come home whether he is to be blamed for that. What cannot be argued, however, is that a good 15 seconds elapses before the goal is scored, and that is entirely down to both Reece James and Noni Madueke not doing their jobs on the right. Neither tracked their man, and ultimately Reece James allowing Emerson a free run into the area led to the goal.

[Mark Kelly]

2 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

While I don't doubt that opposition managers are 'enjoying' playing against us at the moment, this is just another form of mindless Cucurella bashing. He received what was in essence a hospital pass and lost the ball. One can argue until the cows come home whether he is to be blamed for that. What cannot be argued, however, is that a good 15 seconds elapses before the goal is scored, and that is entirely down to both Reece James and Noni Madueke not doing their jobs on the right. Neither tracked their man, and ultimately Reece James allowing Emerson a free run into the area led to the goal.

And , West Ham really exploited that space well didn't they ? The game finished 1-1 and should have finished 1-2 if anyone in charge did their jobs properly.

[Miguelito07]

Just to add to the points above - has anyone noticed how (more) crap we are after half-time? It must be a snooze fest in those 15 minutes

[Holymoly]

2 hours ago, ROTG said:

Disagree. 
good, bad or indifferent the club strives and normally succeeded at making the top 4 because the club hires winners and not a journey man, who claim to fame is keeping Brighton in the PL.

Different club now mate. Different owners, with a different view on how to win consistently without having to reinvent the wheel every time a manager changes. Graeme Potter would never have even got an interview under Abramovich. The fact that he is in post means that Clearlake is not about to use the previous regime's blueprint. We'd all better get used to that otherwise we will stress ourselves into an early grave.

[Holymoly]

52 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

What cannot be argued, however, is that a good 15 seconds elapses before the goal is scored, and that is entirely down to both Reece James and Noni Madueke not doing their jobs on the right. Neither tracked their man, and ultimately Reece James allowing Emerson a free run into the area led to the goal.

I pointed out yesterday if you look at Thiago Siva he is motioning for someone to cover Emerson well before the cross comes over. He sees that almost with his back to Emerson, but then the guy is superhuman, while neither James nor Madueke are experienced enough to sense it themselves.