Liverpool 2 Chelsea 1

[boratsbrother]

2 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

But the posters that from day one have just kept repeating “we’re shit we’re shit we’re shit” , even in victory, are becoming increasingly annoying. They can produce good content usually but they are stuck in the circle of doom. 

I haven't seen anyone say we are shit  I personally think we are  just average because we simply have a team full of average players.

Palmer is the only one who's consistently anywhere near good enough for a title challenging team. Jackson is doing well scoring enough goals to justify his place. Others show moments of quality but they are just moments, with  Madueke being a prime example. In between those moments are a lot of bang average or poor performances.  

The defence remains a joke. The keeper costs us as many points as he saves.  I'm still far from convinced about any of our wide players becoming the consistent level we need to challenge the best again.

The midfield remains a problem. Play Caicedo and Enzo and we can so easily be overrun and they don't offer enough protection to put creaky defence. Play Caicedo and Lavia and we don't have enough going forward from them. Put an extra man in midfield and it takes away some of the attacking threat from the best part of the team.

That Liverpool team yesterday was about as moderate as we could wish to face. They were nothing more than a 6/10.  Like City, they are just jogging along as they usually do until the new year when they step up to top gear. They were there for the taking, but once again we failed in a big game.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Box of Tricks]

Found myself struggling to comment this season because I've accepted that sometimes we're going to fall short (not fail) and it's simply going to be down to the learning curve (and trying to walk before we can run). Yesterday was the third youngest line up in Premier League history (or something ridiculous like that) and I think on the whole we gave a good account of ourselves.

Liverpool, City and Arsenal away are our toughest games of the season, so there's no disgrace in the scoreline, although I hoped for more once we got ourselves back in it.

We do need a keeper though. Sanchez will never cut out what we need him to cut out because that's in his goalkeeper DNA. Going to be hard to find a real upgrade though as a fair number of keepers out there have flaws that you can't look past.

On a different note, I don't know if it's the case here, but there's a minority still clamouring for Pochettino. I just don't get it. He was a coward, was inept with his in-game management (and seemingly a destructive influence at half-time) and worse than anything else, failed in his duty of care to keep his players fit and healthy. I never want to see injury lists like the ones under his reign, ever again.

[Siidi]

I am surprised the pundits are bigging up Liverpool and  a little embarrassed some Chelsea fans have joined them.  I saw nothing particularly great about Liverpool's performance. They played like the away team, in counterattack which  would not have troubled us at all if we had decent central defenders. Nottingham Forest defence coped with a lot more from them.  

[Miguelito07]

13 minutes ago, Siidi said:

I am surprised the pundits are bigging up Liverpool and  a little embarrassed some Chelsea fans have joined them.  I saw nothing particularly great about Liverpool's performance. They played like the away team, in counterattack which  would not have troubled us at all if we had decent central defenders. Nottingham Forest defence coped with a lot more from them.  

The presenters in ESPN were actually quite complementary on the Chelsea performance and less so on the liverpool performance. Stevie Nichols especially

[NoblyBobly]

1 hour ago, boratsbrother said:

I haven't seen anyone say we are shit  I personally think we are  just average because we simply have a team full of average players.

Palmer is the only one who's consistently anywhere near good enough for a title challenging team. Jackson is doing well scoring enough goals to justify his place. Others show moments of quality but they are just moments, with  Madueke being a prime example. In between those moments are a lot of bang average or poor performances.  

The defence remains a joke. The keeper costs us as many points as he saves.  I'm still far from convinced about any of our wide players becoming the consistent level we need to challenge the best again.

The midfield remains a problem. Play Caicedo and Enzo and we can so easily be overrun and they don't offer enough protection to put creaky defence. Play Caicedo and Lavia and we don't have enough going forward from them. Put an extra man in midfield and it takes away some of the attacking threat from the best part of the team.

That Liverpool team yesterday was about as moderate as we could wish to face. They were nothing more than a 6/10.  Like City, they are just jogging along as they usually do until the new year when they step up to top gear. They were there for the taking, but once again we failed in a big game.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes I’m afraid posters have been saying we are just as shit as in previous seasons under Poch and Potter and no improvements made. The criticism has been scathing only tempered when we score six. 
Now of course Palmer looks better than the rest. That’s because he’d look better than the rest in any other team in the PL ( probably Europe). So because we have a world beater you’re pissed at the other players for not being as good. 
7 games under a new coach with new players and a new system . And I think you’d agree results wise pretty good. Are we languishing in 16th? No went  toe toe with City and Dippers and lost by fine margins. . And don’t tell me Pool strolled through that match in second gear. You know that’s bollocks. We had more attacking play, more possession and same good chances. A pen and goalkeeping error cost us. We can argue about a pen for us but I’m sure you don’t want to or we’re even a bit miffed about it. 
Tbh , I’m getting a bit fed up with telling people not to be so fking miserable so I won’t any more.  Just so long a they don’t tell me I shouldn’t be positive and optimistic about this very new and very young side . 

Edited 13 hours ago by NoblyBobly

[Siidi]

15 minutes ago, Miguelito07 said:

The presenters in ESPN were actually quite complementary on the Chelsea performance and less so on the liverpool performance. Stevie Nichols especially

Good to have some objective voices in punditry. 

I don't know how we solve our defensive problems. Good defenders are harder to find than strikers. Goals can come from all over the pitch, but there is no substitute for a good pair of centre halves. We sold Guehi for nothing, let Rudiger leave, now ended up with this.

[Ham]

40 minutes ago, Siidi said:

I am surprised the pundits are bigging up Liverpool and  a little embarrassed some Chelsea fans have joined them.  I saw nothing particularly great about Liverpool's performance. They played like the away team, in counterattack which  would not have troubled us at all if we had decent central defenders. Nottingham Forest defence coped with a lot more from them.  

 

26 minutes ago, Miguelito07 said:

The presenters in ESPN were actually quite complementary on the Chelsea performance and less so on the liverpool performance. Stevie Nichols especially

This ☝🏻🏻🏻

All I've been reading since yesterday from the Liverpool and MSM side (I know-same thing) is how much we've improved and how Liverpool were lucky to hang on for the win.  

A few ex Liverpool players said we should have won. The difference being a penalty not given, a couple of blocks and Palmer missing the target. 

Some mad stats came out of the game too including a record pass completion stat at Anfield.  

The only negative comments I saw from non Chelsea fans were in relation to Palmer's performance. 

Edited 13 hours ago by Ham

[Sleeping Dave]

5 hours ago, paulw66 said:

So your implication is that he only gets picked because of his price tag. If you genuinely believe that, can you please explain how that reconciles with:

Mudryk being behind players Sancho and Madueke, both of whom cost a lot less?

Or why Colwill (cost nothing) consistently starts over Badiashile? Or why Tosin (cost nothing) started over Disasi? Jackson over Nkunku?

 

Fernandez wasn't just expensive, his fee was astronomical. €121m. For a player like him is beyond a joke. 

I'm not claiming that Mudryk was a great signing, but at least he isn't playing that much. Why has Enzo played 87% of all available minutes for us? He should be permanently benched and Lavia and Caicedo is by far our best CM-pairing. 

It will be interesting to see if Maresca is strong enough to do what is obvious for most - bench him pemanently. 

3 hours ago, JaneB said:

Premier League release statement as Liverpool denied second penalty vs Chelsea

I've probably missed something but is it normal practice for the PL to release statements as to why Liverpool don't get awarded penalties?

They still won ffs.

It really is quite astonishing. The Sancho-incident is more of a penalty I think than the one Jones got. Nothwithsating the handball that led up to that incident. 

1 hour ago, Box of Tricks said:

Found myself struggling to comment this season because I've accepted that sometimes we're going to fall short (not fail) and it's simply going to be down to the learning curve (and trying to walk before we can run). Yesterday was the third youngest line up in Premier League history (or something ridiculous like that) and I think on the whole we gave a good account of ourselves.

Liverpool, City and Arsenal away are our toughest games of the season, so there's no disgrace in the scoreline, although I hoped for more once we got ourselves back in it.

We do need a keeper though. Sanchez will never cut out what we need him to cut out because that's in his goalkeeper DNA. Going to be hard to find a real upgrade though as a fair number of keepers out there have flaws that you can't look past.

On a different note, I don't know if it's the case here, but there's a minority still clamouring for Pochettino. I just don't get it. He was a coward, was inept with his in-game management (and seemingly a destructive influence at half-time) and worse than anything else, failed in his duty of care to keep his players fit and healthy. I never want to see injury lists like the ones under his reign, ever again.

I'm also in this camp. We are not good enough to challenge. It's a shame some people are drumming up such expectations on the team because its delusional. We are a few good years away from challenging imo. These guys needs a few years of experience before that is even likely to happen. But we are also missing some important pieces - goalkeeper is obvious and we've been lacking that ever since we sold Courtois. CB is another one - we need a proper leader and a CB that is right up there with the best in the world. Currently we have neither leadership not world class. 

Colwill isn't bad. He'd be a lot better playing with an experienced CB with outstanding leadership skills. James/Gusto/Cucurella aren't bad either. But imagine if we could swap Fofana for a top class CB and Sanchez for a top class GK. What a difference that would make. Making those two changes alone might see us back in the top three. Adda few years of experience and we can probably challenge for the title. 

[Siidi]

2 minutes ago, Ham said:

 

This☝🏻

All I've been reading since yesterday from the Liverpool and MSM side (I know-same thing) is how much we've improved and how Liverpool were lucky to hang on for the win.  

A few ex Liverpool players said we should have won. The difference being a penalty not given, a couple of blocks and Palmer missing the target. 

Some mad stats came out of the game too including a record pass completion stat at Anfield.  

The only negative comments I saw from non Chelsea fans were in relation to Palmer's performance. 

But there are those who think Liverpool "eased" to it, which is ridiculous given what we all watched. I thought we played well mostly.  We looked confident for such a young team. Maybe there is no place for youth when it comes to defending 

[flllerywhereru2]

2 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

 

It really is quite astonishing. The Sancho-incident is more of a penalty I think than the one Jones got. Nothwithsating the handball that led up to that incident. 

 

Totally agree, if the one for Sancho isnt then this isnt either, the only thing i can think is that they turned down an appeal just before and that clouded their judgement of this one.  On the day Liverpool had two or three penalty shouts of varying validity and we had about the same. The difference is re how they are dealt with. Very quick to decide sanchos  isnt, equally quick to decide  Jones is, I was more annoyed with the non decision right at the death with Robertson's block with his arm. Can kind of excuse the ref who may have been unsighted but VAR have seen and ignored it. Of course the ref blowing for time gave them the perfect opportunity, i you want the reaction of Gusto you see him appeal for it.

[KingThistle]

3 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

I haven't seen anyone say we are shit  I personally think we are  just average because we simply have a team full of average players.

I think it is very harsh to say we were average as these games between the big boys always fail to deliver - both sides in any elite match up result in negative games as the sides tend to cancel each other out. I get that we lost and there is disappointment there, I also get that to move to the next level we need to win against top-6 opponents regularly but without a couple of really rookie errors, we were a match for them yesterday in most areas of the pitch. We are in transition and as such a total summary of "we are just average" is cruel.

[boratsbrother]

2 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Fernandez wasn't just expensive, his fee was astronomical. €121m. For a player like him is beyond a joke. 

I'm not claiming that Mudryk was a great signing, but at least he isn't playing that much. Why has Enzo played 87% of all available minutes for us? He should be permanently benched and Lavia and Caicedo is by far our best CM-pairing. 

It will be interesting to see if Maresca is strong enough to do what is obvious for most - bench him pemanently. 

It really is quite astonishing. The Sancho-incident is more of a penalty I think than the one Jones got. Nothwithsating the handball that led up to that incident. 

I'm also in this camp. We are not good enough to challenge. It's a shame some people are drumming up such expectations on the team because its delusional. We are a few good years away from challenging imo. These guys needs a few years of experience before that is even likely to happen. But we are also missing some important pieces - goalkeeper is obvious and we've been lacking that ever since we 

Colwill isn't bad. He'd be a lot better playing with an experienced CB with outstanding leadership skills. James/Gusto/Cucurella aren't bad either. But imagine if we could swap Fofana for a top class CB and Sanchez for a top class GK. What a difference that would make. Making those two changes alone might see us back in the top three. Adda few years of experience and we can probably challenge for the title. 

So now the qualification for being the level we need is "not being bad.." Crikey, how standards and expectations have fallen from what we once expected.. Furthermore, the clock is always being put forward  2 or 3 years with our squad these days. Next season I bet there'll still be more of this "wait another 2 or 3  years. The way people speak, you'd think we were playing with a bunch of teens when in fact the average age is just under 24. 

 

 

[Ham]

28 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

So now the qualification for being the level we need is "not being bad.." Crikey, how standards and expectations have fallen from what we once expected.. Furthermore, the clock is always being put forward  2 or 3 years with our squad these days. Next season I bet there'll still be more of this "wait another 2 or 3  years. The way people speak, you'd think we were playing with a bunch of teens when in fact the average age is just under 24. 

 

 

Most of the positive posters on here actually predicted top 4 this season and next season being the year we possibly challenge. 

Just because one poster says 2-3 years...... 🙄

[KingThistle]

3 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Fernandez wasn't just expensive, his fee was astronomical. €121m. For a player like him is beyond a joke. 

Sell him, take the financial hit and remove the expectation. It will never materialise with Enzo; I don't see what he does, what type of player he is, where he fits into the midfield which nails on Caicedo and Lavia to start. It's detrimental on all levels to persist with him. 

[blueandproud]

I thought we did OK, Jackson looked sharp and Caicedo was good in midfield,  James coming off the pitch intact was a plus.  However, we lacked experience against a streetwise Liverpool, and the ref, just like many before him, went down with Anfielditis, there's no point in having a ref when the Kop referees the game for them.  And why oh why isn't Nunez getting a pass from the media for his terrible performances?  If he played for us, those overpaid pen pushers and know-sod-alls pn TV would be telling the world how useless he is, he cost 85 million!  That;s a rip-off whichever way you look at it.  And Sanchez needs to be dropped.  NOW.  He will cost us more points than he will gain us, he can't kicka ball straight and he can't keep bees!  Newcastle next, and they're usually poor travellers, especially to London.

COME ON YOU BLUES!!!!!

[Sciatika]

Stee Nicholl on ESPN thought we were the better side but lost. It reminds me of Jimmy Hill. It doesn't matter whether you win or lose. What's important is whether Jimmy thought you deserved to win or not.

[east lower]

2 hours ago, KingThistle said:

Sell him, take the financial hit and remove the expectation. It will never materialise with Enzo; I don't see what he does, what type of player he is, where he fits into the midfield which nails on Caicedo and Lavia to start. It's detrimental on all levels to persist with him. 

There’s a few been saying this about him for a good while now - Reality will be dawning now, just got to hope Lavia stays fit. 

A travesty that we sold Gallagher, one of the reasons being to cover the absolute abhorrent decision to sign Fernandez, at any price - never mind £100m+!

[boratsbrother]

5 hours ago, KingThistle said:

I think it is very harsh to say we were average as these games between the big boys always fail to deliver - both sides in any elite match up result in negative games as the sides tend to cancel each other out. I get that we lost and there is disappointment there, I also get that to move to the next level we need to win against top-6 opponents regularly but without a couple of really rookie errors, we were a match for them yesterday in most areas of the pitch. We are in transition and as such a total summary of "we are just average" is cruel.

Don't agree about matches between top teams are usually negative ones.

Of course, there's always the odd boring game here and there, but City and Liverpool generally go at eachother.  We had a real good go at City last year. Spurs have a good go at City. 

In the second half of last season we mostly played without fear and went at teams home and away, which resulted in a top four points haul for that half of the season.  

Sorry, but until we start getting results to back up the claims about the clear improvement this season, then I'm going to continue to dispute them.  We ended last season as very clear favourites for fourth place this season. One point difference between us and third placed Liverpool from half a seasons games. The table clearly shows that so far, we have gone backwards from that second half of last season.

[McCreadie]

16 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Sorry, but until we start getting results to back up the claims about the clear improvement this season, then I'm going to continue to dispute them.  We ended last season as very clear favourites for fourth place this season. One point difference between us and third placed Liverpool from half a seasons games. The table clearly shows that so far, we have gone backwards from that second half of last season.

We have more points from the equivalent fixtures than last season. Any other metric to decide whether we have gone forwards or backwards is flawed.