Official: Chelsea sign Joao Felix on loan for the remainder of the season

[kev61]

32 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Not so sure about that.

As someone that was unconvinced about bringing Joao Felix in on the sort of deal we did originally, he has shown more of what a true creative, technical and intricate number #10 does. Mount's game is far more centred around industry and doing a lot of the fundamental things managers love to see from their players - he doesn't have the same technical level, goal sense, or natural creativity of a more flair filled Joao Felix. This is quite visible when watching the two  play. 

Not that Joao Felix has the numbers right now either, but I do think if you provided both players with the same even split of games in that central attacking midfield role Joao Felix would be the more influential in the attacking third of the two. Mount however would give you more within the general game itself. Depending on the supporting cast and teams needs, both players have their attractiveness in the position for different reasons - although I do believe Mount ultimately wants to play that deeper #8 role in midfield. 

I think their skills overlap.I think Mount is a better all round player.

I think we have the squad now to stop buying new players.our focus now is to get rid the deadwood.  

[Michael Tucker]

3 minutes ago, kev61 said:

I think we have the squad now to stop buying new players.our focus now is to get rid the deadwood.  

I agree, but will we stop, Kev? And as for getting rid of the deadwood, who'll take them?

[kev61]

9 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

I agree, but will we stop, Kev? And as for getting rid of the deadwood, who'll take them?

I think we have already stopped michael if I'm right.

The only way to get rid of the deadwood is to drastically reduce their value in the transfer market.

[Michael Tucker]

47 minutes ago, kev61 said:

I think we have already stopped michael if I'm right.

Well the rumours keep coming from what I've been looking at! Hope that you're right!

 

47 minutes ago, kev61 said:

The only way to get rid of the deadwood is to drastically reduce their value in the transfer market.

i think that most of them have done that themselves 😅

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, kev61 said:

I think their skills overlap.I think Mount is a better all round player.

I think we have the squad now to stop buying new players.our focus now is to get rid the deadwood.  

Not sure I'd agree that their skillset overlap, but do think Mount is the better player overall in terms of having a wider skillet range. 

We've got a good portion of it sorted but we're still short in several areas that do require some immediate addressing still - holding midfield, centre forward and I think we could use another creative CM to supplement Enzo. I do fear that if he was to miss any extended period of time we'd be right back to seeing the midfield struggle with creation. That may even need to be extended to further CM additions depending on the futures of Kovacic, Mount and even Kante. 

We will however bin quite a few of the deadwood, and I can see a couple others being jettisoned if good offers come in.

[paulw66]

4 hours ago, kev61 said:

I think their skills overlap.I think Mount is a better all round player.

I think we have the squad now to stop buying new players.our focus now is to get rid the deadwood.  

 

4 hours ago, Michael Tucker said:

I agree, but will we stop, Kev? And as for getting rid of the deadwood, who'll take them?

So neither of you think we need a no9 or a defensive midfielder? And less urgent, a world class keeper? 

Until we fix at least two of these issues, we won't compete for the title.

[Willian Dollar Baby]

6 hours ago, Michael Tucker said:

I agree, but will we stop, Kev? And as for getting rid of the deadwood, who'll take them?

Here lies the biggest problem. No club outside the Premier league is going to pay any big transfer fees. 

Players like Ziyech, Pulisic, Aubameyang, Lukaku all need to be cleared out however no club in Europe is paying anything. I'd expect loan deals and many cut-price deals, if we are lucky we might convince a prem club to take someone. Unfortunately any hope of a fee is going to be for a player worth keeping like Mount, Gallagher or Colwill. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by Willian Dollar Baby

[jasonb]

Mendy might well leave too and that would generate a fee though not a large one for sure.

[Sleeping Dave]

On 15/03/2023 at 13:53, paulw66 said:

In response to the bolded bits:

1. so, you compound it by signing another non scoring forward?

2. If that is an excuse for Felix..........why not everyone else?

The attackers you list are all largely irrelevant to the Felix argument, as they are surely all* going regardless. The real argument is do you spend 60, 70m, or whatever it is when, even if all of those go, we would still have Mount, Havertz, Mudryk, Nkuknku, Modueke and Sterling, Can only see it making sense if Mount goes.  

* bit harsh on Broja, but expect he'll be loaned post injury 

 

Let me clarify Paul, I think Felix looks a hell of a lot more dangerous than virtually any other attacking player we currently have on our books. If I’m picking a starting XI Felix is the first attacking player I’d pick. After that probably Havertz and then a toss up between Sterling/Mudryk. 

In other words, I think he is the best attacker we have. He’s dangerous, fast and plays direct. He’s also far more vertical in his movement which is exactly what this team lacks. So for me it’s not a question of whether he scores more or less, for me he is the best we have. But it comes at a price and the real question is whether we think we can use that money to improve more by signing someone else. 

Potter needs to settle on his preferred eleven and for me that’s;

                          Kepa

James Silva Badiashile Chilwell

     Kovacic     Enzo    Mount

 Felix             Havertz     Sterling 

To improve on this further, we need a proper S1 and a real DM1. Preferably a GK1 as well. 

[paulw66]

3 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Let me clarify Paul, I think Felix looks a hell of a lot more dangerous than virtually any other attacking player we currently have on our books. If I’m picking a starting XI Felix is the first attacking player I’d pick. After that probably Havertz and then a toss up between Sterling/Mudryk. 

In other words, I think he is the best attacker we have. He’s dangerous, fast and plays direct. He’s also far more vertical in his movement which is exactly what this team lacks. So for me it’s not a question of whether he scores more or less, for me he is the best we have. But it comes at a price and the real question is whether we think we can use that money to improve more by signing someone else. 

Potter needs to settle on his preferred eleven and for me that’s;

                          Kepa

James Silva Badiashile Chilwell

     Kovacic     Enzo    Mount

 Felix             Havertz     Sterling 

To improve on this further, we need a proper S1 and a real DM1. Preferably a GK1 as well. 

I think we largely agree, although against the best teams, Silva in a 4 is slow.  I really like Fofana now I have had the chance to have a proper look.

I also wonder for how much longer, the "Felix looks dangerous" argument remains tenable. Looking dangerous and being dangerous are two entirely things.

[Sleeping Dave]

8 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

I think we largely agree, although against the best teams, Silva in a 4 is slow.  I really like Fofana now I have had the chance to have a proper look.

I also wonder for how much longer, the "Felix looks dangerous" argument remains tenable. Looking dangerous and being dangerous are two entirely things.

True. But the sample size is very small so small margins will have a large impact on his output. After the season we will have a better idea. 

[xceleryx]

11 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Let me clarify Paul, I think Felix looks a hell of a lot more dangerous than virtually any other attacking player we currently have on our books. If I’m picking a starting XI Felix is the first attacking player I’d pick. After that probably Havertz and then a toss up between Sterling/Mudryk. 

In other words, I think he is the best attacker we have. He’s dangerous, fast and plays direct. He’s also far more vertical in his movement which is exactly what this team lacks. So for me it’s not a question of whether he scores more or less, for me he is the best we have. But it comes at a price and the real question is whether we think we can use that money to improve more by signing someone else. 

Potter needs to settle on his preferred eleven and for me that’s;

                          Kepa

James Silva Badiashile Chilwell

     Kovacic     Enzo    Mount

 Felix             Havertz     Sterling 

To improve on this further, we need a proper S1 and a real DM1. Preferably a GK1 as well. 

And here lies the problem we're going to have moving forward whether Joao Felix remains or not, as we're going to be seeing Nkunku arrive in the summer and he plays in a similar position just behind a striker. The 433 simply doesn't have this role available, it does however give us the ability to play an extra CM which is good news for both Mount and Kante. However, if we are to sign a DM - which we should be doing, then that removes one of the midfield positions available. With Enzo being a lock himself, it realistically only leaves one real CM opening to be contested between Kovacic, Mount, Kante and Gallagher. Ironically, all four have uncertain futures here for next season. 

This then throws a spanner in the works with what we do with Nkunku - much less Joao Felix on top if he was to return. We'll have fallen back into the trap of signing a player how thrives in a position that'll possibly not exist, which means to play him (or Joao Felix should he remain) he'll be forced to either play on the wing or upfront neither of which are ideal solutions. If we move away from a 433 to create that CAM position we're creating other issues in the process. We'll likely run a double pivot in the midfield, one of which is going to be Enzo and you'd have to imagine a proper holding type if we're to fully maximise the Argentines quality. This squeezes Mount out of midfield altogether, likewise Gallagher as neither can play in a double pivot.  Kovacic and Kante wouldn't be regular starters, and again neither truly compliment Enzo in a pivot as he'll be the one who has to sacrifice his game by playing deeper - although maybe less so with Kovacic.

Then if we opt for a back three of some variety we're going to be in a situation we've purchased three actual wingers in Sterling, Mudryk and Madueke and now no longer have a proper place for them, unless they convert into attacking midfielders or forwards. 

Perfect would 433 is the go-to in my view also, but it may come at the cost of making a few bold decisions on the futures of some bigger name players we've currently got. 

[My Blood Is Blue]

7 hours ago, xceleryx said:

And here lies the problem we're going to have moving forward whether Joao Felix remains or not, as we're going to be seeing Nkunku arrive in the summer and he plays in a similar position just behind a striker. The 433 simply doesn't have this role available, it does however give us the ability to play an extra CM which is good news for both Mount and Kante. However, if we are to sign a DM - which we should be doing, then that removes one of the midfield positions available. With Enzo being a lock himself, it realistically only leaves one real CM opening to be contested between Kovacic, Mount, Kante and Gallagher. Ironically, all four have uncertain futures here for next season. 

This then throws a spanner in the works with what we do with Nkunku - much less Joao Felix on top if he was to return. We'll have fallen back into the trap of signing a player how thrives in a position that'll possibly not exist, which means to play him (or Joao Felix should he remain) he'll be forced to either play on the wing or upfront neither of which are ideal solutions. If we move away from a 433 to create that CAM position we're creating other issues in the process. We'll likely run a double pivot in the midfield, one of which is going to be Enzo and you'd have to imagine a proper holding type if we're to fully maximise the Argentines quality. This squeezes Mount out of midfield altogether, likewise Gallagher as neither can play in a double pivot.  Kovacic and Kante wouldn't be regular starters, and again neither truly compliment Enzo in a pivot as he'll be the one who has to sacrifice his game by playing deeper - although maybe less so with Kovacic.

Then if we opt for a back three of some variety we're going to be in a situation we've purchased three actual wingers in Sterling, Mudryk and Madueke and now no longer have a proper place for them, unless they convert into attacking midfielders or forwards. 

Perfect would 433 is the go-to in my view also, but it may come at the cost of making a few bold decisions on the futures of some bigger name players we've currently got. 

Great summary @xceleryx, I think you’re spot on in terms of the various dilemmas we could face. I guess the other side of it is that GP does like to switch things up and so he may well want a squad that allows him to play both formations and switch between them during games.

[thevelourfog]

I think we'd be mad to pay the sort of money Atletico likely would want for Felix given what we've seen of him, and that's not even factoring in the wages he's likely on (how would they fit with the "wage structure" that's reportedly a barrier to some other negotiations at the club?).

If Atletico are just wanting him out and could be persuaded to take a relatively low fee (idk, £50-60m) or some of our pricey deadwood (Lukaku, Ziyech, Pulisic) in exchange, fine. There's clearly enough for him to be a player who contributes. 

[xceleryx]

3 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Great summary @xceleryx, I think you’re spot on in terms of the various dilemmas we could face. I guess the other side of it is that GP does like to switch things up and so he may well want a squad that allows him to play both formations and switch between them during games.

GP may do, then I guess the squad size debate comes into play. If GP wants to keep his options open between several systems then it either means carrying a bigger squad to have these options on hand, or signing versatile players that can perform several roles to a high enough standard. Not all the players we've signed so far fit that last point. 

[FrankLampard8]

Is Felix good? It's been weeks now and I still can't tell.

I'm starting to think he might be the sort of player who does thinks that LOOK good rather than being really good... but i'm not confident in that. 

[xceleryx]

There's a couple reports in the last day or so suggesting we're working on signing Joao Felix permanently. If true, I do have to wonder what our plan actually is considering we'll have Nkunku arriving in the summer and who also plays the same position in behind a CF. 

Tactically, it may also push us towards a 4231 type of system and a line up like this if we're to try and fit both in the same team. With the attacking three behind the CF all being rather fluid. 

----------------------- CF 

Joao Felix ------ Nkunku ------ Sterling

------------ Enzo --------- DM

 

[Bison]

6 hours ago, xceleryx said:

There's a couple reports in the last day or so suggesting we're working on signing Joao Felix permanently. If true, I do have to wonder what our plan actually is considering we'll have Nkunku arriving in the summer and who also plays the same position in behind a CF. 

Tactically, it may also push us towards a 4231 type of system and a line up like this if we're to try and fit both in the same team. With the attacking three behind the CF all being rather fluid. 

----------------------- CF 

Joao Felix ------ Nkunku ------ Sterling

------------ Enzo --------- DM

 

This hypothetical 11 makes the transfer seem even more bizarre. Where does Mudryk fit for instance? 

[FrankLampard8]

I had high hopes when we started to bring these new recruitments guys in from here there and everywhere but I must admit I have no confidence there is any real plan for our transfers again now other than "he looks good" or "let's sign him so no one else can have him".

[boratsbrother]

8 hours ago, xceleryx said:

There's a couple reports in the last day or so suggesting we're working on signing Joao Felix permanently. 

 

During the match on Saturday the commebtators talked about his future at Chelsea. From what they have heard,  he might well sign for us if we qualify for the CL but probably won't sign  if we fail to qualify.

[asvaberg]

1 minute ago, boratsbrother said:

During the match on Saturday the commebtators talked about his future at Chelsea. From what they have heard,  he might well sign for us if we qualify for the CL but probably won't sign  if we fail to qualify.

....so we'll have to win this years CL then - maybe he can contribute with some goals?

[xceleryx]

6 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

During the match on Saturday the commebtators talked about his future at Chelsea. From what they have heard,  he might well sign for us if we qualify for the CL but probably won't sign  if we fail to qualify.

I have a feeling Champions League won't matter too much, he seems more like someone that want's to enjoy his football again and that's not looking like it'll be at Atletico. 

Not sure the whole no European football thing will hinder us too much with signing players IF it's only a solitary season out of the competition. Should we follow it up however and spend the next 2-3 years out then we might be in some strife, especially if Newcastle improve and Man Utd end up backed by a state. 

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, Bison said:

This hypothetical 11 makes the transfer seem even more bizarre. Where does Mudryk fit for instance? 

This is an issue we're going to have with respects to a few players.

I actually went on to make a post in the Squad Status thread which covers some of the issue we're going to face with our squad and tactical choices.

[paulw66]

1 hour ago, Bison said:

 

This hypothetical 11 makes the transfer seem even more bizarre. Where does Mudryk fit for instance? 

Perhaps we'll use more than 11 players next season?

In 2004/05 we had Duff, Robben, Cole

In 2005/06 those 3 plus SWP

In 2009/10 we had Cole, Anelka, Kalou, Malouda

In 2014/15 we had Hazard, Willian, Schurrle, Oscar, KdB (repalced by Cuadrado in Jan!)

In 2016/17 we had Hazard, William, Pedro

Amazes me how people still talk about an XI. If you have European football, you need at least 2 players per position, especially in forward areas

[Mark Kelly]

8 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Perhaps we'll use more than 11 players next season?

In 2004/05 we had Duff, Robben, Cole

In 2005/06 those 3 plus SWP

In 2009/10 we had Cole, Anelka, Kalou, Malouda

In 2014/15 we had Hazard, Willian, Schurrle, Oscar, KdB (repalced by Cuadrado in Jan!)

In 2016/17 we had Hazard, William, Pedro

Amazes me how people still talk about an XI. If you have European football, you need at least 2 players per position, especially in forward areas

I hate to bang on about Potter all the time but this is again one of his flaws in my opinion.

We finally have enough players to ensure there's competition for a starting place and he's trying to give them all minutes regardless.

We need to pick an eleven and then it's up to those holding a place to keep it and those outside the first team to put pressure on them .

It's all so nicey nicey wishy washy at the moment.

Personally I don't care if KK doesn't get a game because others are keeping him out , lets get to the place where they players are physically striving to do well and not turning up and getting paid regardless.