Official: Chelsea sign Joao Felix on loan for the remainder of the season

[Bison]

On 21/03/2023 at 10:48, paulw66 said:

Perhaps we'll use more than 11 players next season?

In 2004/05 we had Duff, Robben, Cole

In 2005/06 those 3 plus SWP

In 2009/10 we had Cole, Anelka, Kalou, Malouda

In 2014/15 we had Hazard, Willian, Schurrle, Oscar, KdB (repalced by Cuadrado in Jan!)

In 2016/17 we had Hazard, William, Pedro

Amazes me how people still talk about an XI. If you have European football, you need at least 2 players per position, especially in forward areas

Fair point but not sure spending 60m+ on somebody and then using them as squad filler is the best use of resources.

And it's looking very likely we will not have European football next season anyway so we should be working with a relatively smaller squad.

[xceleryx]

11 hours ago, Bison said:

Fair point but not sure spending 60m+ on somebody and then using them as squad filler is the best use of resources.

And it's looking very likely we will not have European football next season anyway so we should be working with a relatively smaller squad.

I suppose it could also be seen as "quality in depth" type of deal, something we used to have at our peak and have been without in more recent years. 

The priority is of course to address our main areas of need first, as long as we do that (or have a plan on doing that at a minimum), then I don't have too big of an issue spending to improve other areas of less need.

We may also end up carrying a slightly bigger squad than what's typically been the case for a side that's just competing domestically, as we've got quite a few players that are susceptible to injuries. We may require having some additional insurance on those to prevent leaving us precariously short.

[Bison]

On 27/03/2023 at 23:29, xceleryx said:

I suppose it could also be seen as "quality in depth" type of deal, something we used to have at our peak and have been without in more recent years. 

The priority is of course to address our main areas of need first, as long as we do that (or have a plan on doing that at a minimum), then I don't have too big of an issue spending to improve other areas of less need.

We may also end up carrying a slightly bigger squad than what's typically been the case for a side that's just competing domestically, as we've got quite a few players that are susceptible to injuries. We may require having some additional insurance on those to prevent leaving us precariously short.

I agree that we will likely carry a bigger squad but not for that reason. A lot of the players we need to move on earn too much money and there is no real market for them.

I would be amazed if there is much joy offloading players in the summer.

[thevelourfog]

Apparently (not checked the stats myself) Atletico have got more points and scored more goals than anyone other than Barca, which is a substantial uptake on their form, since Felix left. And his 2 goals in 14 games for us is his worst return from that many games in his career.

We should fold the recruitment department if anyone within it tries to make this deal permanent.

[Mark Kelly]

19 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Apparently (not checked the stats myself) Atletico have got more points and scored more goals than anyone other than Barca, which is a substantial uptake on their form, since Felix left. And his 2 goals in 14 games for us is his worst return from that many games in his career.

We should fold the recruitment department if anyone within it tries to make this deal permanent.

One does question what stats exactly we keep looking at , FIFA ultimate team by EA Sports perhaps?

[Bison]

53 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

One does question what stats exactly we keep looking at , FIFA ultimate team by EA Sports perhaps?

I don't think any real analysis or scouting went into Felix. Some reports even suggest it was a favour to Enzo's agent who also manages Felix and that helped the Enzo deal get done.

And as @thevelourfog said, Atletico are flying without him:

 

[JaneB]

According to Simon Phillips on twitter, Felix is likely to stay another year on his loan deal, but wants reassurances from the incoming manager that he will get game time.

Not possible I'd say.

[xceleryx]

6 hours ago, JaneB said:

According to Simon Phillips on twitter, Felix is likely to stay another year on his loan deal, but wants reassurances from the incoming manager that he will get game time.

Not possible I'd say.

Hard to see where he fits moving forward.

We'll have Nkunku arriving who plays the same position in behind/off a CF, which is also likely where Mount would be competing for a place in the side should he remain and Poch goes with his usual 4231. Then there's Havertz who'd ideally want to be playing in that same spot himself should we find a proper striker. 

Not really sure how Joao Felix slots in anywhere but out of position on the wing, which helps neither him or the side. 

Bit of an unnecessary signing based on profile and fit. Would rather find ourselves another out and out winger, or a functional backup striker over another attacking midfielder/#10 type. 

[Ham]

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Hard to see where he fits moving forward.

We'll have Nkunku arriving who plays the same position in behind/off a CF, which is also likely where Mount would be competing for a place in the side should he remain and Poch goes with his usual 4231. Then there's Havertz who'd ideally want to be playing in that same spot himself should we find a proper striker. 

Not really sure how Joao Felix slots in anywhere but out of position on the wing, which helps neither him or the side. 

Bit of an unnecessary signing based on profile and fit. Would rather find ourselves another out and out winger, or a functional backup striker over another attacking midfielder/#10 type. 

Talk of Zaha on a free today. 

[Sciatika]

I would prefer that we focus on exploiting our best players which, to me, are the wing-backs. To do that we need a tall, strong striker who can

• provide an out ball when we are under pressure,
• hold the ball up to allow support to arrive,
• occupy central defenders to make more space for our other attackers,
• win headers and second balls,
• score with both feet and his head.

Second balls would allow us to bring those that operate in the hole or at the edge of the box into play. We need to stretch defences laterally and horizontally. Those that arrive help to do that. I think players like Felix are nice to watch, but I would have him lower on the priority list than a striker and a really reliable DM/deep-lyng midfielder. The latter needs to have a very good passing range. Having said that, you can do more than one thing at once. 

[ROTG]

On 17/04/2023 at 12:55, Bison said:

And as @thevelourfog said, Atletico are flying without him:

And we gave them £16m for the loan - that another fine mess you got us into TB sport department

 

[xceleryx]

45 minutes ago, Ham said:

Talk of Zaha on a free today. 

Might go against the grain a little but I wouldn't necessarily be mad if we picked up Zaha as a squad player, would rather that than loan Joao Felix again. 

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

Might go against the grain a little but I wouldn't necessarily be mad if we picked up Zaha as a squad player, would rather that than loan Joao Felix again. 

there are probably better tactical squad players coming available from the team who go down, than a prima donna like Zaha - Also his wage demands will be outrageous.

All that said, it would be better to reduce the squad before increasing it further

[Bison]

2 hours ago, Sciatika said:

I would prefer that we focus on exploiting our best players which, to me, are the wing-backs. To do that we need a tall, strong striker who can

• provide an out ball when we are under pressure,
• hold the ball up to allow support to arrive,
• occupy central defenders to make more space for our other attackers,
• win headers and second balls,
• score with both feet and his head.

Second balls would allow us to bring those that operate in the hole or at the edge of the box into play. We need to stretch defences laterally and horizontally. Those that arrive help to do that. I think players like Felix are nice to watch, but I would have him lower on the priority list than a striker and a really reliable DM/deep-lyng midfielder. The latter needs to have a very good passing range. Having said that, you can do more than one thing at once. 

Those days really should be over. They should be complimentary pieces at best. And by they I actually only mean Reece and Gusto moving forward. 

Chilwell simply isn't a good footballer. Building a system around a player as limited as that would be a mistake. And the same goes for Cucurella.

We need a new system which focuses far more on getting the best out of whichever new signings we have made and will make in midfield and forward positions. 

[Mark Kelly]

39 minutes ago, Bison said:

Those days really should be over. They should be complimentary pieces at best. And by they I actually only mean Reece and Gusto moving forward. 

Chilwell simply isn't a good footballer. Building a system around a player as limited as that would be a mistake. And the same goes for Cucurella.

We need a new system which focuses far more on getting the best out of whichever new signings we have made and will make in midfield and forward positions. 

Blimey someone else has realised. 

[Sciatika]

Fair enough. I have a different opinion of Chilwell, but it's all about opinions. In some games, he is very good, and in others, not so much. To be honest, I have seen that from Reece too.

Putting that aside, I am going to be wildly simplistic. It seems to me that our current problem is about being able to take the chances we create. I am not into stats, but I am told the xG is high, but our goal tally is not. Our strikers don't appear to be able to take chances with enough regularity. To me, that problem is a consequence of how we play, which comes down to our inability to create space. If there is more space, our players would have more time to make the right choices and a reduced likelihood that defenders can block. If we bring in new strikers that are the same as the ones we have, we will still have the same problem. We need to change the system - to stretch defences both widthwise and lengthwise to maximise space and likelihood of scoring.

Currently, to make space widthwise, we use our wingbacks, but it might be traditional wingers or even rotated strikers or attacking midfielders. But, to take advantage of spaces generated, those wide players need to convert possession into a chance. Usually, that's a cross (though we have to vary with cutbacks, dribbles and so on. For crosses, we need a striker or strikers that can challenge tall defenders. Playing with midgets or weeds up-front limits what we can do. As I say, this is both obvious and too simplistic.

Equally, we need to stretch defences lengthwise. This means getting players behind the defence to turn the defenders. This is something we don't do enough. Not sure why but maybe that has something to do with our timing as we get lots of offside decisions against us.  Also, we need to use players arriving late to the last third. This draws defenders out. 

Obviously, we cannot do all these things at once because we do not have fifty on the pitch. So, we need a team that is able to constantly vary tactics. That takes a lot of time on the training pitch (too much?). All the same, we need to get players up the pitch to stretch the defences. So, we need to be able to transition from defence to attack faster, but that is hard unless you have someone who stays up front and can protect the ball while his teammates are making that transition. We also need the players to be VERY fit. Also, many teams are pressing high against us because they know that the best place to win possession is near our goal. That makes it much harder to play out from the back, especially in a 3-4-3 where we often don't control the midfield. So we need an out-ball as an option to defeat that press and push their players back.

My point is that, yes, we need to get the best out of the new signings, but we need to be training them into a framework that maximises their chances of success.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Sciatika

[kev61]

On 28/04/2023 at 11:54, Bison said:

 

Chilwell simply isn't a good footballer. Building a system around a player as limited as that would be a mistake. And the same goes for Cucurella.

 

Chilwell IS a good footballer,but  building a system around a left full/wing back is ridiculous. 

You build a team around a good midfield.

We have been  lacking in that department for years.Every manager for many years has neglected this area.

It it so obvious to me it is ridiculous.

A good midfield will carry you through the bad times in a bad team as well as turbo charging an overall  good team in good times.

Edited April 30, 2023 by kev61

[Bison]

5 hours ago, kev61 said:

Chilwell IS a good footballer,but  building a system around a left full/wing back is ridiculous. 

You build a team around a good midfield.

We have been  lacking in that department for years.Every manager for many years has neglected this area.

It it so obvious to me it is ridiculous.

A good midfield will carry you through the bad times in a bad team as well as turbo charging an overall  good team in good times.

Absolutely need to improve our midfield. It kills me that some teams in our league have been able to build superior midfields for a fraction of the cost. It's almost as if we have the worst of both worlds; not technically gifted  and not good enough athletically to compete either.

As for Chilwell, I have to strongly disagree. He is a massive problem in possession. Just retaining the ball under even the slightest press is hard work for him. He is the pressing trigger for every team we play. Not sure how people don't see this when it happens every game.

[xceleryx]

20 hours ago, Bison said:

Absolutely need to improve our midfield. It kills me that some teams in our league have been able to build superior midfields for a fraction of the cost. It's almost as if we have the worst of both worlds; not technically gifted  and not good enough athletically to compete either.

Hopefully this summer is the one where we finally get a bit of a rejuvenation in the engine room, we're in prime position to do it given the futures of those holding roles there right now (Enzo aside). 

20 hours ago, Bison said:

As for Chilwell, I have to strongly disagree. He is a massive problem in possession. Just retaining the ball under even the slightest press is hard work for him. He is the pressing trigger for every team we play. Not sure how people don't see this when it happens every game.

Chilwell's biggest issue in possession is his inability to progress the ball well via the pass. He's more of a ball-carrier and runner in behind than he is that figure that's going to create a lot through moving the ball via foot. Yes, he can be a target for a pressing side, but he's also not entirely inept either. His game is simply limited on the position side, a Marcelo he ain't in that regard. He is however still good enough to work around and in a more functional side, especially down the left and with more midfield protection, it should be a more manageable situation to work around.

[blueandproud]

Frankly, we were better off signing Felix The Cat, this guy is rubbish.

[kev61]

On 30/04/2023 at 08:42, Bison said:

 

As for Chilwell, I have to strongly disagree. He is a massive problem in possession. Just retaining the ball under even the slightest press is hard work for him. He is the pressing trigger for every team we play. Not sure how people don't see this when it happens every game.

It wasn't that long ago most people were saying Chilwell  was one of our best players

Is it possible he could be another victim of our coaching methods?

[Michael Tucker]

36 minutes ago, kev61 said:

It wasn't that long ago most people were saying Chilwell  was one of our best players

This. Funny old world, isn't it?

 

[kev61]

11 hours ago, blueandproud said:

Frankly, we were better off signing Felix The Cat, this guy is rubbish.

He looked ok in his first few games.What player looks good in our recent signings?

Edited May 4, 2023 by kev61

[Mark Kelly]

7 hours ago, kev61 said:

It wasn't that long ago most people were saying Chilwell  was one of our best players

Is it possible he could be another victim of our coaching methods?

He still is one of our best players , all he needs is someone to help him focus on defence a bit more and look up and actually pick out a player when crossing .

When a lwb is a major part of your attacking ethos , gaps behind them will be left which is why Silva shouldn't be the one to cover for him as he's not got the legs for it .

He'd be one of the last ones I'd get rid of.

[east lower]

2 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

He still is one of our best players , all he needs is someone to help him focus on defence a bit more and look up and actually pick out a player when crossing .

When a lwb is a major part of your attacking ethos , gaps behind them will be left which is why Silva shouldn't be the one to cover for him as he's not got the legs for it .

He'd be one of the last ones I'd get rid of.

The best football we played in the last two  seasons was with RJ and BC operating at full-pelt - You have to go back when we were top of the league under TT - Leicester away when we won 3-0 I think and could have won by  8 and handed lessons to Juventus in the CL. We were brilliant.

There are a number of larger matters to deal with, than Ben Chilwell. Deal with the big issues first - new Manager, players out and key new players in, playing systems after that, improvement of roles/ development after that and in that order.

Edited May 4, 2023 by east lower