Mason Mount

[thevelourfog]

On 13/04/2023 at 02:51, xceleryx said:

I'm not saying Mount hasn't been professional through all of this time. However, as a player that's risen from the junior ranks of the club right through to the senior setup where he's been a mainstay for much of that time, under several managers no less, while having this persona of being a Chelsea lad, one would think he'd be doing all he could to stay here for the foreseeable future. Part of doing this may mean leaving a little on the table financially in order to continue that bonded relationship. 

I get it, football is still a business and players want to maximise their earning power while they can, but when we've seen both RJ and more recently Chilwell agree to new long term deals with little to no fuss, one does have to question where Mount's priorities lie.

While I do understand players can outgrow clubs, or where the clubs level no longer matches the ambition of the player - see Rice at West Ham for example, then it's natural for a player to explore their options. The issue with Mount in this case, and this is of  course based on media reports, is that his possible destination would be Liverpool - a club that's on the decline itself and requires its own rebuilding process. If nothing else it's a lateral move at best. Now, if Mount was to end up at say Real Madrid or Bayern then you could maybe be more understanding because those sorts of moves reflect a step up. 

We've been more than good to Mount since he came onto the scene. Whether it was handing him an £80k pw deal immediately after returning from Derby and not having kicked a competitive senior ball here, consistent playing time as an important player in the side, or even trying to reward him with a new contract at a reported £180k pw at the back end of Roman's time here that he turned down. It would just be nice to see Mount maybe making a greater effort to remain here - at least in the short term. By all means, if in another two or so years we're still this awful I'll not begrudge him a desire to move, but right now it has a little bit of that "jumping ship" feel to it. 

All very well and good, but a narrative for why you think he should stay and not a justification for criticism of his "character" (which none of us know anything about). Nor does it explain why we aren't dubious of the "character" of players who leave clubs they have similar relationships with. I ask again ... Are you at all sceptical of what kind of person Mudryk is for leaving a club devastated by war, or Fernández for buggering off from Benfica about 10 minutes into his contract there? If, by unlikely chance you are, why are you so quiet about it? Because they signed for Chelsea.

The last bit doesn't work and is just your projection. Contract negotiations stalled months ago, long before this rot and it is a revision of very recent history to link them. If he's "jumping ship", he started doing it when the ship was in plain-sailing ... So not what counts as "jumping ship".

I'm really not even defending Mount. For all I know, he's an arsehole (I do doubt it). 

[thevelourfog]

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

A few rumours circulating now that the club are confident he will sign a new deal! Who knows.

Saw that, seems to originate from 90minutes who I don't think have ever struck me as having much of an inside track. It did suggest the confidence came from the club accepting a shorter deal needs to be offered ... It may be that none of this is about Mount or his "character", and about the owners started to see reason. 

I expect to see the same sources say he's agreed a £250k a week deal with Liverpool tomorrow (who are making loud, public noises about not being able to afford those sorts of deals).

[xceleryx]

10 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

All very well and good, but a narrative for why you think he should stay and not a justification for criticism of his "character" (which none of us know anything about). Nor does it explain why we aren't dubious of the "character" of players who leave clubs they have similar relationships with. I ask again ... Are you at all sceptical of what kind of person Mudryk is for leaving a club devastated by war, or Fernández for buggering off from Benfica about 10 minutes into his contract there? If, by unlikely chance you are, why are you so quiet about it? Because they signed for Chelsea.

The last bit doesn't work and is just your projection. Contract negotiations stalled months ago, long before this rot and it is a revision of very recent history to link them. If he's "jumping ship", he started doing it when the ship was in plain-sailing ... So not what counts as "jumping ship".

I'm really not even defending Mount. For all I know, he's an arsehole (I do doubt it). 

I wasn't really criticising his "character", although upon reflecting the use of "character" initially on my behalf probably wasn't' the right descriptor to use. Maybe it's more the expectation placed upon him being a Chelsea lad, and him seemingly unwilling to agree on new terms despite this whole contract extension process having begun under Roman's ownership. To then see a fellow Chelsea lad like Reece James sign up without hesitation, and then Chillwell - a English lad that's only been here a few seasons now also effortlessly extending, compounds the situation further. 

The "jumping ship" aspect is more tied to the current predicament because he's dragged things out for years now. We've hit a point where it really is extend now or be sold, because of this ultimatum like set of circumstances it does feel a little like jumping ship - especially if he ends up at Liverpool, even if it's not in the traditional way. We obviously want to keep him, we've made efforts to do that, it would just be nice if he committed his future despite both his and the clubs respective struggles this season.

Duly noted though, 

[Michael Tucker]

Mason is an outstanding footballer, and from everything I've heard/read, has an outstanding character. If he re-signs I'll be delighted but if he decides to move on,, then so be it.

[chrisb]

With all this talk of players having to agree to structured wages, could this be a feature in the reason Mount is not agreeing to a new contract?

[Mark Kelly]

17 minutes ago, chrisb said:

With all this talk of players having to agree to structured wages, could this be a feature in the reason Mount is not agreeing to a new contract?

I would imagine it's part of it , especially since he reportedly turned down a contract extension under Roman that was structured differently to the Boehly ones . I bet he feels hard done by now but it was his own decision not to sign so he can only blame himself and his agent at the time who was his Dad apparently .

I think he's gone regardless now. 

[Lump Of Celery]

48 minutes ago, chrisb said:

With all this talk of players having to agree to structured wages, could this be a feature in the reason Mount is not agreeing to a new contract?

I came here to say the same thing, will surely be an issue given that next season we will definitely be out of the CL. If everyone else signing up has the clause then we can't start making exceptions.

Also players signing earlier in the season probably had more faith in the new project, with rumours now that there is discontent I wonder if the players still believe in the new owners vision that was convincing to the likes of Shaktar.

Having said all of that I can only imagine it being the 2 Manchester clubs who could offer more wages than us, and Liverpool no longer have the draw of fighting at the top of the table and in CL finals each season

[xceleryx]

57 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I would imagine it's part of it , especially since he reportedly turned down a contract extension under Roman that was structured differently to the Boehly ones . I bet he feels hard done by now but it was his own decision not to sign so he can only blame himself and his agent at the time who was his Dad apparently .

I think he's gone regardless now. 

Said this from the beginning but Mount's contract stalemate is firmly of his own doing. He's had years to agree to new offers, the reported £180k pw under Roman, and whatever he's being offered now which I can't envision would be beyond the claimed £250k pw deal of Reece James. I don't think you can say the club has low-balled him at any point with anything unjust or undervalue. 

Can't see him getting anything beyond those figures either, nor do I even think he'd be worth it after the season he's just had which puts him in a weaker position to negotiate from. At Liverpool £250k pw would make him their second highest earner behind Salah, and about £30k pw more than the likes of VVD and Thiago based on the figures out in the wild. 

[thevelourfog]

The very fact that Mount can't realistically be expecting better wages than we can offer him elsewhere should be telling us something about why he hasn't signed a new deal. It isn't about money. 

[Mark Kelly]

4 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

The very fact that Mount can't realistically be expecting better wages than we can offer him elsewhere should be telling us something about why he hasn't signed a new deal. It isn't about money. 

I wish we knew what it is then because the coach has left and a new ones coming in, personally I think his mind was made up when Lukaku was rewarded for Mounts endeavours.

I'm guessing you're more on the because Boehly had made a balls up of everything side of the fence but I think the seeds were sewn with Lukaku and his wages. 

 

[thevelourfog]

4 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I wish we knew what it is then because the coach has left and a new ones coming in, personally I think his mind was made up when Lukaku was rewarded for Mounts endeavours.

I'm guessing you're more on the because Boehly had made a balls up of everything side of the fence but I think the seeds were sewn with Lukaku and his wages. 

Tbf, I'm guessing as much as anyone else. But the logical end point of any position that's "he won't get offered more money elsewhere" has to be that money is not the barrier. No one can have their cake and eat it on that.

I suspect he feels he's been messed about a bit with offers and has lost any faith in negotiations and those leading them.

[Holymoly]

Mount has deleted his Twitter account. Cynics might say it is to avoid the fan fallout when he signs for Liverpool.

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, Holymoly said:

Mount has deleted his Twitter account. Cynics might say it is to avoid the fan fallout when he signs for Liverpool.

He gets plenty of unwarranted grief from alleged Chelsea fans who couldn't find Stamford Bridge if you dropped them outside Fulham Broadway as it is. 

[Sleeping Dave]

If the club accepts losing Mount then we might as well pack it in. Can’t keep our best academy prospects and buy shit for £600m. 

If you couldn’t laugh you’d kill yourself. 

I don’t buy it for a second he’d rather join Liverpool than stay with us. Not a chance. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Sleeping Dave

[kev61]

On 12/04/2023 at 15:01, xceleryx said:

Speaks volumes about his character if he's content with walking away once the going gets a little tough, much less from the club he's come through the ranks at.

Oh come on!.So Mount should stay loyal to us because he came through the ranks?

If he wasn't performing as a junior he would have been dropped like a hot potato

There is no loyalty in football anymore.Mounts "responsibility" lies with himself and his family full stop.

Edited April 20, 2023 by kev61

[Chelsea_Matt]

57 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

He gets plenty of unwarranted grief from alleged Chelsea fans who couldn't find Stamford Bridge if you dropped them outside Fulham Broadway as it is. 

From what I have read - not saying it’s true - it’s possibly because of alleged threats made to him. 

[Bob Singleton]

Mount looked happiest when surrounded by players he'd come through the ranks with.  Many of them - Guehi, Tomori, Abraham, etc - have gone.  Maybe he just doesn't think Chelsea is very "Chelsea" any more?  Maybe he's hurt by the vitriol aimed at him on-line by so-called Chelsea fans (many from overseas, admittedly) when he's always seemed to give his all?  Maybe he's pissed off at players with big egos coming in and attempting to dominate the dressing room despite winning nothing?  Maybe he's now at an age and stage in his career where he wants to be regularly played in his favoured position/role rather than having his versatility be used to make up for the failings of others?

[Lump Of Celery]

11 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Said this from the beginning but Mount's contract stalemate is firmly of his own doing. He's had years to agree to new offers, the reported £180k pw under Roman, and whatever he's being offered now which I can't envision would be beyond the claimed £250k pw deal of Reece James.

At those figures he must have also missed out on over of £5m of wage uplift this year alone. 

[Michael Tucker]

3 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

If the club accepts losing Mount then we might as well pack it in.

Apart from some of the usual media nonsense, I'm not sure why we'd imagine that the club has given up on Mount.

3 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

I don’t buy it for a second he’d rather join Liverpool than stay with us. Not a chance. 

Neither do I. 

[kev61]

3 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

Mount looked happiest when surrounded by players he'd come through the ranks with.  Many of them - Guehi, Tomori, Abraham, etc - have gone.  Maybe he just doesn't think Chelsea is very "Chelsea" any more?  Maybe he's hurt by the vitriol aimed at him on-line by so-called Chelsea fans (many from overseas, admittedly) when he's always seemed to give his all?  Maybe he's pissed off at players with big egos coming in and attempting to dominate the dressing room despite winning nothing?  Maybe he's now at an age and stage in his career where he wants to be regularly played in his favoured position/role rather than having his versatility be used to make up for the failings of others?

Nailed it.Whatever the reason all are valid in my mind.

Edited April 21, 2023 by kev61

[kev61]

4 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

If the club accepts losing Mount then we might as well pack it in. Can’t keep our best academy prospects and buy shit for £600m. 

 

Ain't that the truth!.I know i keep defending mount(even though he hasn't been anywhere near his best)he is a special player that has been dragged down by a combination of things,some we know and some we can only guess,but  mainly because he plays for Chelsea.

After all he's not the first player with great potential that has bombed with us.

 

[xceleryx]

5 hours ago, kev61 said:

Oh come on!.So Mount should stay loyal to us because he came through the ranks?

If he wasn't performing as a junior he would have been dropped like a hot potato

There is no loyalty in football anymore.Mounts "responsibility" lies with himself and his family full stop.

If you read the rest of the discussion had about this at the time, you'll note that I go on to clarify what was meant further.

In short though, no. I don't expect players to be loyal. It's a business after all and naturally everyone (club or player) are going to look after their best interests. There are however players that value that loyalty, especially when representing the club they've grown up with. Mount has somewhat been represented as being "Chelsea", there are players that will make sacrifices to preserve that bond because of its value. 

To potentially join Liverpool would likely sour a lot of what he's done here. They're a rival for one, there's no great sporting gain to be had given their own situation right now and needing a rebuild, and they certainly aren't going to pay him anything beyond what we can afford considering they have their own wage structure in place. It's a lateral move at best in every sense. Unlike if he left to join a Madrid or Barcelona - more prestigious clubs that constantly compete at the top end, something most would understand. 

There's obviously some hangup he has given the ease in which we've been able to extend Reece James and then Chilwell this season, but he's ultimately free to make his own decisions. Which, as of right now, all lead to him being sold in the summer to avoid losing him for nothing next season.

[xceleryx]

5 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

Mount looked happiest when surrounded by players he'd come through the ranks with.  Many of them - Guehi, Tomori, Abraham, etc - have gone.

I'd expect most players would be happiest getting to play with their mates, more so those they've grown up with. 

5 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

Maybe he just doesn't think Chelsea is very "Chelsea" any more?  

Part and parcel of ownership changing.

5 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

Maybe he's hurt by the vitriol aimed at him on-line by so-called Chelsea fans (many from overseas, admittedly) when he's always seemed to give his all? 

All players face these things to be fair, won't matter which club he plays for - it's the nature of social media unfortunately. If it was that big of a factor though he can control the narrative by either disabling comments or by not being on social media. There are ways around it, even if you can't stop the root of the problem that are fickle football fans. 

5 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

Maybe he's pissed off at players with big egos coming in and attempting to dominate the dressing room despite winning nothing?  

Which big egos have arrived? Outside of Koulibaly (not really his vibe) and Sterling (England team-mate that he'll have known for years), every other player that's joined this season has been 24 or younger.

5 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

Maybe he's now at an age and stage in his career where he wants to be regularly played in his favoured position/role rather than having his versatility be used to make up for the failings of others?

I think this has the most probability to it. He's spoken that he see's himself as an #8 and that's where he likes to play, but understands the value in being versatile and playing several positions. The biggest hurdle here is that to play him as an #8 we basically have to build the side around him. While a good player in his own right, I'm not convinced he's that level of good.

[kev61]

32 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

If you read the rest of the discussion had about this at the time, you'll note that I go on to clarify what was meant further.

In short though, no. I don't expect players to be loyal. It's a business after all and naturally everyone (club or player) are going to look after their best interests. There are however players that value that loyalty, especially when representing the club they've grown up with. Mount has somewhat been represented as being "Chelsea", there are players that will make sacrifices to preserve that bond because of its value. 

To potentially join Liverpool would likely sour a lot of what he's done here. They're a rival for one, there's no great sporting gain to be had given their own situation right now and needing a rebuild, and they certainly aren't going to pay him anything beyond what we can afford considering they have their own wage structure in place. It's a lateral move at best in every sense. Unlike if he left to join a Madrid or Barcelona - more prestigious clubs that constantly compete at the top end, something most would understand. 

There's obviously some hangup he has given the ease in which we've been able to extend Reece James and then Chilwell this season, but he's ultimately free to make his own decisions. Which, as of right now, all lead to him being sold in the summer to avoid losing him for nothing next season.

Forgive me - but Mount will suit himself.He has probably listened to the waffle that you exude and dismissed it.

Edited April 21, 2023 by kev61

[Michael Tucker]

26 minutes ago, kev61 said:

Forgive me - but Mount will suit himself.

Yes. He always has, and always will. Good luck to him, whichever way he chooses.