Mason Mount

[kev61]

36 minutes ago, Ham said:

You write this like Mount had nothing to do with us being outside the top 4 last season. 

 

He was part of a TEAM that failed...as was Silva.

[Ham]

2 minutes ago, kev61 said:

He was part of a TEAM that failed...as was Silva.

Our defensive stats were good. 

Our attacking stats were what hurt us.  Truly abysmal. Broke every record we didn't want to break. 

[ROTG]

10 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

 

Do they have someone on the side of the pitch shouting " in -out" so they don't forget how to breathe too? 

If you see the running stats and ground covered last season, that exactly what they needed.

If memory serves me, one of Frank final passing shots something to do with the nobody coach letting the players  fitness deteriorate?

 

[kev61]

6 minutes ago, Ham said:

Our defensive stats were good. 

Our attacking stats were what hurt us.  Truly abysmal. Broke every record we didn't want to break. 

So mount was a key factor in why we failed in attack?.

[ROTG]

14 minutes ago, Ham said:

Our defensive stats were good. 

It was nothing to do with the nobody coach playing 3 at the back, 5-6 across the midfield and being very defensive unit,

Just asking?

[Ham]

9 minutes ago, kev61 said:

So mount was a key factor in why we failed in attack?.

Not on his own but Silva was not among the reasons we finished 12th.  

2 minutes ago, ROTG said:

It was nothing to do with the nobody coach playing 3 at the back, 5-6 across the midfield and being very defensive unit,

Just asking?

It was more to do with the rubbish final balls and piss poor finishing. 

Lost count of the number of shots Mount and others smashed into row z. 

[xceleryx]

40 minutes ago, ROTG said:

I believe they won silverware last season, qualified for the CL and finished 14 pts off top spot.

The club was 27pts off 4th spot, Pochettino may be a good coach but he is not a miracle worker.

Ah yes, the almighty league cup.

Do you think Man Utd are going to compete deep in Europe based on their current squad? What about compete for a title next season? 

No one is arguing we were putrid last season, but let's call a spade a spade here, Man Utd aren't in that much better of a position than us at present. But I'm sure Mount doesn't mind that when he's being paid the reported £250k per week raising to £300k with bonuses. 

[Thiago97]

44 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Bang on MK - Go look at the how the club went into free fall after TB decided to replace a top class coach with a nobody 

Fook me , last season not far away from Ted Lasso story without the success, Its a real pity Amazon were not doing one of there fly on the wall documentaries.

Back to MM, let see if the club replaces him with someone of the same calibre and CV? And good luck to MM

This did make me smile a bit.........a nice reminder of the early positions you insist on taking ie : Noni , Jackson scouting level of Brighton / Bournemouth etc etc

The top class coach bit.........I seem to remember  prior to him joining and early on when he joined. I think you christened TT ' Klopp lite'

Just saying 🙂

 

[kev61]

7 minutes ago, Ham said:

Not on his own but Silva was not among the reasons we finished 12th.  

It was more to do with the rubbish final balls and piss poor finishing. 

Lost count of the number of shots Mount and others smashed into row z. 

I beg to differ.Silva was showing his age and who can blame him?.

Mount was a victim of terrible management that has put us in this predicament. 

[kev61]

1 hour ago, Ham said:

Our defensive stats were good. 

Our attacking stats were what hurt us.  Truly abysmal. Broke every record we didn't want to break. 

I'll tell you what I would do with stats.I would wring your neck with them!

In a very polite way.

[ROTG]

25 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

The top class coach bit.........I seem to remember  prior to him joining and early on when he joined. I think you christened TT ' Klopp lite'

Not quite, i had reservations if he was not anything more than a poor mans klopp, fortunately he was not. That said some of his tactics were mind blowing at times.

[Thiago97]

Just now, ROTG said:

Not quite, i had reservations if he was not anything more than a poor mans klopp, fortunately he was not. That said some of his tactics were mind blowing at times.

Kinda  reinforces my point. A very early position taken without the background knowledge to support it, I can only presume you believe that you got that wrong , based on what you have said here and as you have just referred to TT as a top class coach.

Noni was Brighton level after about 30 minutes in a Chelsea shirt. Jackson is not Chelsea level before he has kicked a ball for us, based on Bournemouth nearly signing him and no other big club linked to him.

 

[ROTG]

30 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

This did make me smile a bit.........a nice reminder of the early positions you insist on taking ie : Noni , Jackson scouting level of Brighton / Bournemouth etc etc

Not changing my opinion of those two, if he hd not failed a medical Action Jackson "one for the teenagers" would have been playing for Bournemouth last season. Maybe the failed medical was a blessing in disguise stoping Bournemouth humping the club for £65m.

Hopefully I keep you smiling, would it not be boring if everyone had the same views 😃

[Thiago97]

Just now, ROTG said:

Not changing my opinion of those two, if he hd not failed a medical Action Jackson "one for the teenagers" would have been playing for Bournemouth last season. Maybe the failed medical was a blessing in disguise stoping Bournemouth humping the club for £65m.

Hopefully I keep you smiling, would it not be boring if everyone had the same views 😃

It's not really a different view as such. I just don't see the reward on offer by being correct when making such quick knee jerk calls. The risk of looking a bit daft surely outweighs the kudos ( or lack of it) for happening to get it right.

 

[ROTG]

1 minute ago, Thiago97 said:

Noni was Brighton level after about 30 minutes in a Chelsea shirt

Wrong thread, however watched him  against Forrest and could understand why he was hauled off after 70 minutes

[Gurj SS]

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Highlighted a few things here.

If Mase was Chelsea through and though he'd not have thrown that away so easily to make a lateral move to a rival. He'd want to be part of the project to bring the club back to where it wants to be, where he could've been a key figure in that and built himself a good legacy in the process. 

He was offered a substantial pay rise by all accounts after we won the Champions League and turned it down. 

Whether you like Sterling or not, his record speaks for itself - both in terms of team accolades and individual production. As I've shared before, up until this season he had played something like the 3rd most games under Pep out of all players he's managed, had the 2nd or 3rd most goals behind Messi and Aguero, and similarly for assists behind KdB and Messi. He may not be everyones cup of tea as a player, but he's been far more productive than most over recent years and it's disingenuous to try and claim otherwise. His wages here are also marginally more compared to what he got at City also. 

I think that's harsh on Mase, he probably preferred staying in England and where else could he have gone where everyone would have thought it was fine to go to? He'd have had to pick a team outside of the top 8 because until we improve they're all our rivals; if anything a top 4 team is not our rival, it's more positions 5 to 8 at present.

What's a substantial pay rise? When you have high earners at the club then that's where all wage negotiations will be based from; none of us would be paid less than our co-workers for no good reason and expecially those who weren't around when the company was at its most successful.

Its the old battle of the stats, did the club fail every player who has arrived with good stats over the years or was it the players who couldn't bring their stats with them? Its the age old debate. I watched Sterling's goals and assist carefully when we first signed him, he played the ghost striker role very well and fair play to him; but we didn't sign him for that reason and if we did then it's worse than I thought; because that Man City team literally put 80% on a plate for him. we can't do what they can do and we haven't been able to since the days of Lamps, Ballack and co. Sterling won't contribute much to the build up play which is the area where we require most input from him in, if anything Pep moved him away from being part of the build up process and focused more on using him right at the end of play; then when he was able to bring a player in who can play more dimensionally off the wing and replace his injury prone strikers he moved Sterling on. City look, and are, better without him. His wages aren't justified, nor were those of KK to be fair, but none of that is Mase's fault; he didn't choose for the club to put players on such crazy wages. The bar was set, and still is set until players are moved on. If it were the other way around and we were buying someone like Fernandes from Man Utd, what would his wages be like? Probably the same as Sterling or within touching distance.

There's a clear shift in our business model regarding wages but that will also mean signing players before they produce the goods elsewhere, and also losing them before the big contracts are requested; I'm not sure how I feel about that type of business, it's like a bus stop between feeder clubs like Brighton and the very best teams in the league. While I say that, if we're successful and we need to give players a pay rise in order to ward off the likes of City, Real, PSG etc, we're back at offering players wages around £250,000, if not more closer to £300,000.

Our current top earners are: Sterling (£325,000!) James (£250,000), Fofana (£200,000), Chilly (£200,000), Enzo (£180,000), Dave (£180,000), Cucurella (£175,000!). Mount was on £80,000. He was apparently offered the same wages Fofana is on, a player who still has so much to do in order to justify his wages and transfer fee since he joined, I'd put Mount level with James if not £15k more because attackers in general earn more, and a 5,6,7 year contract would have been his main contract for his career. In an ideal world Sterling doesn't arrive to set an unrealistic benchmark or accepts a pay cut for a starting role, James is on £180,000, Fofana is on £80k less, Chilly is on £150,000, same for Enzo as Chilly, and Cucrella is still at Brighton. But that didn't and won't happen, so Mase should have been offered £250-275k. If he said no to that, then fair enough.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Gurj SS

[jasonb]

8 hours ago, kev61 said:

I remember when Mata left(sorry dumped by Mourhino) there was no hue and cry about a player that had just won player of the year twice.

Some trusted Mourhino because of what he achieved for us.

We now know Mourhino was full of manic canine excrement.

I'm confident we have let another top class player get away, who was also twice player of the year - only this time it was unknown circumstances that lead to Mounts departure and not one man's ego.

Seems different to me, yes we let Mata go which was a shock given how well he had been playing and got £37m for him which was reasonable yet we also signed Fabregas and Luiz and were league winners within a year, 

[Thiago97]

54 minutes ago, Gurj SS said:

Our current top earners are: Sterling (£325,000!) James (£250,000), Fofana (£200,000), Chilly (£200,000), Enzo (£180,000), Dave (£180,000), Cucurella (£175,000!). Mount was on £80,000. He was apparently offered the same wages Fofana is on, a player who still has so much to do in order to justify his wages and transfer fee since he joined, I'd put Mount level with James if not £15k more because attackers in general earn more, and a 5,6,7 year contract would have been his main contract for his career. In an ideal world Sterling doesn't arrive to set an unrealistic benchmark or accepts a pay cut for a starting role, James is on £180,000, Fofana is on £80k less, Chilly is on £150,000, same for Enzo as Chilly, and Cucrella is still at Brighton. But that didn't and won't happen, so Mase should have been offered £250-275k. If he said no to that, then fair enough.

Ref this paragraph. It doesn't really work like this though and I would say that is the case in many walks of life.

The likes of Fofana , Enzo , Chillwell all joined Chelsea in massive transfers. When clubs are prepared to fork out £50 million plus to bring you to the club, clearly you will be receiving very large wages as part of that.  So I don't think these are an accurate or fair barometer for Mount. Just like in many working practices out there, you might do your job well for say 50k pa and been with your company 15 years. If you leave and they recruit externally, the new person is probably coming in on 60k. Not saying its right or wrong, but it is how things tend to work .

You could argue that James contract is a better benchmark. However,  Reece James is regarded as one of the best in the world in his position. Now injuries mean we have not seen that too much in the last season, but we all know when he is playing injury free, we would fit it hard to identify many players who are better than him. The same cannot be said for Mount. He is clearly a very good footballer, but he is not really anywhere near the best around for players who play in a similar role.

He has been offered a fantastic contract and turned it down. He clearly either wants to leave for sporting reasons, or he wants to leave for more money elsewhere. Personally,  I am not really to bothered which of these two it is, its his prerogative and his career at the end of the day.  The facts are though, he clearly isn't the Mr Chelsea that was made out (not by him I should add). We are all Chelsea fans and if were were lucky enough to be here earning 80k a week, then offered a new deal which doubles that, I think +95% of us would sign it, as its the club we love and our connection to the club outweighs an extra 100k somewhere else.

[Gurj SS]

4 hours ago, Thiago97 said:

Ref this paragraph. It doesn't really work like this though and I would say that is the case in many walks of life.

The likes of Fofana , Enzo , Chillwell all joined Chelsea in massive transfers. When clubs are prepared to fork out £50 million plus to bring you to the club, clearly you will be receiving very large wages as part of that.  So I don't think these are an accurate or fair barometer for Mount. Just like in many working practices out there, you might do your job well for say 50k pa and been with your company 15 years. If you leave and they recruit externally, the new person is probably coming in on 60k. Not saying its right or wrong, but it is how things tend to work .

You could argue that James contract is a better benchmark. However,  Reece James is regarded as one of the best in the world in his position. Now injuries mean we have not seen that too much in the last season, but we all know when he is playing injury free, we would fit it hard to identify many players who are better than him. The same cannot be said for Mount. He is clearly a very good footballer, but he is not really anywhere near the best around for players who play in a similar role.

He has been offered a fantastic contract and turned it down. He clearly either wants to leave for sporting reasons, or he wants to leave for more money elsewhere. Personally,  I am not really to bothered which of these two it is, its his prerogative and his career at the end of the day.  The facts are though, he clearly isn't the Mr Chelsea that was made out (not by him I should add). We are all Chelsea fans and if were were lucky enough to be here earning 80k a week, then offered a new deal which doubles that, I think +95% of us would sign it, as its the club we love and our connection to the club outweighs an extra 100k somewhere else.

Sorry mate, but if I was Mount I'd want more money regardless of how much connected I am with the club, and much more than Fofana is on; regardless of how much he cost. Normally players who are free agents get paid more and get a larger signing on fee, Mount was due his. I can't see RA allowing Mount to leave over wages especially when others are on much more and have been for far too long.

All the club had to do was take 20% of the wages freed up from KK leaving and Mount stays, love for the club shouldn't get in the way of business. I'm going to go down the stats route, oh no... According to TransferMarkt: In 2021/22 Sterling got 17 goals and 9 assist, Mount got 13 goals and 16 assist; Sterling contributed to 26 goals in 47 games, Mount contributed to 29 goals in 53 games. Mount was 2 goals behind in the league and 4 assist ahead. There's hardly any difference in that, so you could argue that if Sterling was given his wages (as like James he must be one of the best in his position), then so is Mount; more so that Mount wasn't even playing in an advanced position as Sterling was, and at times was playing box to box to help us plug gaps. I think us fans have really forgot what Mount did on the pitch for us, I'm not his biggest fan by any means but he did perform; if we want to blame him for not performing last season then every player who was here last season needs their wages slashed in half.

The football world is different, Sancho is on £250,000, Madison is rumoured to be on £170,000 at Spurs, Foden £200,000, there's rummours Saka will be offered £300,000 (even if we say £275k or £250k), Son £200,000; and Mount has done more for us than any of those have done for their clubs at pivitol times. he would share the pitch and compete for the same prizes, so only fair his wage reflects it.

True, what is done is done, but I've always thought as a club we'd have looked after our own more. I said in another post that it currently feels like the roots are being ripped out of the club rather than the batton being passed on to a new set of players; we have so many players next season who don't have a connection with the club and won't have anyone around to explain/showcase the Chelsea culture. Hope it doesn't turn us into a mini PSG.

[Thiago97]

13 minutes ago, Gurj SS said:

Sorry mate, but if I was Mount I'd want more money regardless of how much connected I am with the club, and much more than Fofana is on; regardless of how much he cost. Normally players who are free agents get paid more and get a larger signing on fee, Mount was due his. I can't see RA allowing Mount to leave over wages especially when others are on much more and have been for far too long.

All the club had to do was take 20% of the wages freed up from KK leaving and Mount stays, love for the club shouldn't get in the way of business. I'm going to go down the stats route, oh no... According to TransferMarkt: In 2021/22 Sterling got 17 goals and 9 assist, Mount got 13 goals and 16 assist; Sterling contributed to 26 goals in 47 games, Mount contributed to 29 goals in 53 games. Mount was 2 goals behind in the league and 4 assist ahead. There's hardly any difference in that, so you could argue that if Sterling was given his wages (as like James he must be one of the best in his position), then so is Mount; more so that Mount wasn't even playing in an advanced position as Sterling was, and at times was playing box to box to help us plug gaps. I think us fans have really forgot what Mount did on the pitch for us, I'm not his biggest fan by any means but he did perform; if we want to blame him for not performing last season then every player who was here last season needs their wages slashed in half.

The football world is different, Sancho is on £250,000, Madison is rumoured to be on £170,000 at Spurs, Foden £200,000, there's rummours Saka will be offered £300,000 (even if we say £275k or £250k), Son £200,000; and Mount has done more for us than any of those have done for their clubs at pivitol times. he would share the pitch and compete for the same prizes, so only fair his wage reflects it.

True, what is done is done, but I've always thought as a club we'd have looked after our own more. I said in another post that it currently feels like the roots are being ripped out of the club rather than the batton being passed on to a new set of players; we have so many players next season who don't have a connection with the club and won't have anyone around to explain/showcase the Chelsea culture. Hope it doesn't turn us into a mini PSG.

Rather than waste time picking this apart. I’ll just state couldn’t disagree more with virtually all of it. 

[Mark Kelly]

18 minutes ago, Gurj SS said:

Sorry mate, but if I was Mount I'd want more money regardless of how much connected I am with the club, and much more than Fofana is on; regardless of how much he cost. Normally players who are free agents get paid more and get a larger signing on fee, Mount was due his. I can't see RA allowing Mount to leave over wages especially when others are on much more and have been for far too long.

All the club had to do was take 20% of the wages freed up from KK leaving and Mount stays, love for the club shouldn't get in the way of business. I'm going to go down the stats route, oh no... According to TransferMarkt: In 2021/22 Sterling got 17 goals and 9 assist, Mount got 13 goals and 16 assist; Sterling contributed to 26 goals in 47 games, Mount contributed to 29 goals in 53 games. Mount was 2 goals behind in the league and 4 assist ahead. There's hardly any difference in that, so you could argue that if Sterling was given his wages (as like James he must be one of the best in his position), then so is Mount; more so that Mount wasn't even playing in an advanced position as Sterling was, and at times was playing box to box to help us plug gaps. I think us fans have really forgot what Mount did on the pitch for us, I'm not his biggest fan by any means but he did perform; if we want to blame him for not performing last season then every player who was here last season needs their wages slashed in half.

The football world is different, Sancho is on £250,000, Madison is rumoured to be on £170,000 at Spurs, Foden £200,000, there's rummours Saka will be offered £300,000 (even if we say £275k or £250k), Son £200,000; and Mount has done more for us than any of those have done for their clubs at pivitol times. he would share the pitch and compete for the same prizes, so only fair his wage reflects it.

True, what is done is done, but I've always thought as a club we'd have looked after our own more. I said in another post that it currently feels like the roots are being ripped out of the club rather than the batton being passed on to a new set of players; we have so many players next season who don't have a connection with the club and won't have anyone around to explain/showcase the Chelsea culture. Hope it doesn't turn us into a mini PSG.

Maybe , what Mount could have done was sign his alleged £200K deal that was offered under the previous regime , he's missed out on a year of doubling his money because he wasn't offered quite as much as James was and would have been in a stronger position than he currently is when negotiating onwards 

[Holymoly]

8 hours ago, Ham said:

Our defensive stats were good. 

Our attacking stats were what hurt us.  Truly abysmal. Broke every record we didn't want to break. 

The more you think about it Mount seemed to become very fixated with his "brand" over the last 18 months. I think he had more advertising spots than assists in the Premier League. Interestingly, and going against my initial impression of him, Sterling on the other hand is apparently workng out like crazy in advance of preseason. Good on the guy.

[Gurj SS]

8 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Maybe , what Mount could have done was sign his alleged £200K deal that was offered under the previous regime , he's missed out on a year of doubling his money because he wasn't offered quite as much as James was and would have been in a stronger position than he currently is when negotiating onwards 

True, I'd agree it would have put him in a better position but only if it had been a 2-3 year extension, I think a longer term contract, which is what was offered, would have cemented him down. Also imagine he had signed a long term contract of £200,00 and the we'd gone the other way under new owners, and we got established internationals who were top class in on wages far above his; then he'd still be either fighting for more pay just as a rotation player or scrambling for the door for more playing time.

Hopefully we've made the right choice, and Mount has trouble settling at Man U; because even though he's no world beater his stats from a season where we were successful show how important he can be to a team. If he settles and starts firing we'll look silly quite quickly indeed, espeically when there had been a drive to get more English talent in recent years into the team and we've actually ended up ditching them all one by one. Even with James, it's easy to say no to Arsenal, but if we have a poor season will he say no to Real or some other? He'd be silly to ignore it, especially now his mates are gone.

Such an important season for us, so important that I'm actually more worried about Poch as manager than losing Mount.

[kev61]

19 hours ago, jasonb said:

Seems different to me, yes we let Mata go which was a shock given how well he had been playing and got £37m for him which was reasonable yet we also signed Fabregas and Luiz and were league winners within a year, 

Mata was handled disgracefully by Mourhino imo.

 

[kev61]

13 hours ago, Holymoly said:

Sterling on the other hand is apparently workng out like crazy in advance of preseason. Good on the guy.

He is still the 'best you can get' as far as shaving goes.