Mason Mount

[Michael Tucker]

1 hour ago, RDCW said:

I agree. It starts with playing him in his best position, rather than as a utility player to fill in for the poor players who are supposed to play in the various positions he has to cover.

With you. 

And Potter isn't helping!

[kev61]

On 18/03/2023 at 15:48, martin1905 said:

You can pretty much take my word for the fact that it's not about money Chara, he wants to play as a cm and not be the utility man anymore. He always saw it as good for his development, playing different roles but at the start of this season he was 23,  after being at the club his whole life and winning the champions league, with two years left on his contract he saw this season as the one he would finally be given the chance to play in what he strongly sees as his best position.

It hasn't happened and Liverpool or most likely Klopp 100% want him, they see him as literally THE perfect CM for Klopp's team and he has had his head turned. They want both him and Bellingham and believe they will transform them into title challengers again and unfortunately I think they are right.

Some may remember from the old forum that I have a friend who worked at the club, it wasn't very often he would tell me things and when he did they generally either happened or at least had some truth. Morata coming when everyone said he was going to United and we were getting Lukaku and Havertz signing ,long before he did are two examples I spoke of at the time. Other times he has been wrong, of course but most the time he was on the money.

I am so confident about this one as he used to coach Mount in the youth set up, when he was just a boy and still has a good relationship with his Dad so anything he tells me about it I will believe, it's up to others to make of of it what they will but, just by the fact that he still hasn't signed, regardless of whether people want to believe me, is really not good. 

From what I gather, and I so hope I'm wrong as he is by far and away my favourite Chelsea player and one I rate so high I think he will be one of the best CM's in the world when he finally plays there, under the right manager, there is almost no chance of him signing an extension. He feels like he has put the club before his own career for years now and whatever happens with us going forward, playing for Klopp, the way they set up, he sees as the best possible next step in his career. 

 

Yep I said a long time ago Mount was being used in positions that never suited him.

I agree he has all the attributes to be one of the best central midfielders in the world.

Quite frankly,for his sake,it is better if he leaves.We have owners that think we can stick with a manager that takes a central defender off with minutes left when there is only a goal in it!.

Giving minutes to players in a big squad is absolute nonsense.Players can fight for their place if they'r deemed not good enough.They are entitled to nothing and a manager should pick his best eleven when available.

Mount was used to plug a hole in our inadequate positions going forward.

I'm 80% sure Mount is going.I wonder if there was a vote among supporters who they would rather see going Mount or Potter ?- I'm  fairly confident most people would choose Potter.

We witnessed a watershed moment when Antonio Conte had the audacity to criticise his players and questioned their commitment and asked the question to the owners how many managers do you need to go through to realise it's not the talent of a player it's also the attitude of a player?

I don't often agree with our simian friend Keown,but he was right when he said Conte is exasperated with with players and owners.

I think Tuchel felt  the same,and now we have a manager who wouldn't say boo to a goose,,,god help us.

 

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, RDCW said:

I agree. It starts with playing him in his best position, rather than as a utility player to fill in for the poor players who are supposed to play in the various positions he has to cover.

Playing Mount in his best position is easier said than done though and there's a lot of other outside variables that influence this being possible or not. 

Tactically, if Mount wants to play CM then we're literally locked into a shape that contains 3 CM's - there is no escaping that, as he's neither suited nor a complimentary partner for Enzo in a double pivot. This more or less ties us to a 433 as we're not going to play a system with a diamond midfield if we're to push forward with a back four. Presuming we're signing a starting calibre holding midfielder it'll virtually leave one starting CM position open to be fought between Mount, Kova and Kante. We've also made great effort to secure Nkunku early for next season, a talented and skilful attacking midfield type that plays best behind a striker like Joao Felix currently does. There's a knock-on effect all of this has just to fit Mount into what he believes is his best position. 

The other thing to consider is that if we did do the above to get Mount playing as a CM in a midfield three, he's going to be the "attacker" in that trio. We'll all have different views about this I'm sure, but how many truly see Mount as being a player that's going to consistently deliver the sort of open-play production needed from that role? He'll of course give us a good base of fundamentals, the work-rate, the pressing, etc but if he's going to be the attacking option of the three he'll need up his production by some margin. 

Not quite the most simplistic of situations as it's made to sound.

[kev61]

11 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Playing Mount in his best position is easier said than done though and there's a lot of other outside variables that influence this being possible or not. 

 

What does that mean?.If you play a player in his best position variables don't come into it.He is suited to that position or not.

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, kev61 said:

What does that mean?.If you play a player in his best position variables don't come into it.He is suited to that position or not.

It means what I literally then followed up explaining.

The short is that there's more to the situation than just playing Mount as CM and problems solved - even if he may prefer and perform better in that space individually. Whether its tactical changes to create that extra CM spot, other players having their primary positions dissolved and needing to be shoehorned elsewhere, what alternative formations can be utilised when needed, the sudden logjam of players for that one CM role if you consider Enzo is a bonafide lock to start and we sign a primary DM, and so on. 

There's a ripple effect that takes place that'll all need to be resolved or worked around, while also trying to balance what's best for the team as a whole. 

I'll make it clear again I don't want Mount to leave and believe he's a good player, but I also don't believe he's a calibre of player that you tailor a side around either. If we were to do that then he'd have to raise his game to a completely new level, particularly from an attacking stand point where he'll have even greater attacking responsibility being the "attacking centre mid" of a midfield three. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by xceleryx
Amended structure.

[ROTG]

5 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Playing Mount in his best position is easier said than done though and there's a lot of other outside variables that influence this being possible or not. 

The only variable is currently having a coach who does not have the slightest clue on formation and tactic, who in desperation has gone back and used his predecessors playbook on formation without any tactics.

You're continual debate on MM best position can only have credibility if there was a top draw coach at the club with the team challenging on all fronts without MM as a key player.

[thevelourfog]

13 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

I wonder why nobody does that then? 

 

Nobody does what? Plenty of players play regularly, giving it their all, until their contract ends and then leave having known for months prior that's what they'd be doing. It's really not very long since that happened here.

I'll be gutted when he goes, and especially because of where it seems he'll go. I'll think and maybe say unpleasant things about him. 

[Mark Kelly]

3 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Nobody does what? Plenty of players play regularly, giving it their all, until their contract ends and then leave having known for months prior that's what they'd be doing. It's really not very long since that happened here.

I'll be gutted when he goes, and especially because of where it seems he'll go. I'll think and maybe say unpleasant things about him. 

Nobody allows their players to finish their contracts with no sell on value and pats them on the back and thanks them for their efforts as a tactic . They make sure that when the contract is running down they either renegotiate or sell the player.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Mark Kelly

[thevelourfog]

6 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Nobody allows their players to finish their contracts with no sell on value and pats them on the back and thanks them for their efforts as a tactic . They make sure that when the contract is running down they either renegotiate or sell the player.

I haven't suggested they do anywhere? Obviously most of the time the club tries to get some money back, and understandably. And they do that by selling the player to a club the player is happy to go to. Which takes us back to what I actually said ... No player is obliged to move to a club they don't want to go to because it's more convenient for the club. 

[Mark Kelly]

9 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

I haven't suggested they do anywhere? Obviously most of the time the club tries to get some money back, and understandably. And they do that by selling the player to a club the player is happy to go to. Which takes us back to what I actually said ... No player is obliged to move to a club they don't want to go to because it's more convenient for the club. 

The problem as I see it is that if Mount wants to go to Liverpool for example and the club would rather he goes to Newcastle , what do we do if Liverpool realise , that if they hang on for a year they can get him for nothing so wont give the club any money for him?

We are trying to run a business here and the players are very much commodities in that business whether it's morally right or not.

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, ROTG said:

The only variable is currently having a coach who does not have the slightest clue on formation and tactic, who in desperation has gone back and used his predecessors playbook on formation without any tactics.

You're continual debate on MM best position can only have credibility if there was a top draw coach at the club with the team challenging on all fronts without MM as a key player.

Out of 128 league appearances Mount has for us thus far only 24 have come in CM. 

• 8 under Tuchel
• 4 under Potter
• 12 under Lampard

He's not played an extensive amount of football in midfield under anyone, irrespective of the pedigree of the manager. So, either everyone here are Sunday League level managers with zero clue, or maybe, just maybe, there's other factors managers have to take into consideration and as such he's been best seen as used elsewhere.

My continued debate on Mount's best positions comes from the fact HE wants to play in midfield. I don't particularly care where he plays personally, but if it's going to be in CM as an #8 type then it's a situation that goes beyond just being picked there and the rest takes care of itself. There's a ripple effect that'll follow irrespective of the manager or their quality.

Edited March 20, 2023 by xceleryx

[Michael Tucker]

Seriously, you play Mount where Mount wants to play. And you pay him what he's worth. Give him that respect, which he deserves (because he's that good, and that important to us), and the rest will take care of itself.

[JaneB]

54 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

Seriously, you play Mount where Mount wants to play. And you pay him what he's worth. Give him that respect, which he deserves (because he's that good, and that important to us), and the rest will take care of itself.

Hallelujah 👏🏻

[Michael Tucker]

11 hours ago, xceleryx said:

My continued debate on Mount's best positions comes from the fact HE wants to play in midfield. 

Does he? Not trying to be difficult, but do you have a quote to back this up?

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, Michael Tucker said:

Does he? Not trying to be difficult, but do you have a quote to back this up?

I believe he spoke about it in an interview somewhere, might have been with Tubes but can't remember 100%. 

He basically see's himself as a midfielder, but also acknowledges the importance in being versatile and playing higher. It wasn't one of those "I want to play midfield or bust" type of deals, more that that's where he see's himself as a player. 

Edit: Found the clip. If the time stamp doesn't work skip to 4:15 in the video.

Edited March 21, 2023 by xceleryx

[Michael Tucker]

22 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

I believe he spoke about it in an interview somewhere, might have been with Tubes but can't remember 100%. 

Lovely young man! Very self-aware, and confident. Basically happy to play wherever the team needs him. Hope that the club and him can work it out, and he stays.

[xceleryx]

10 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

Lovely young man! Very self-aware, and confident. Basically happy to play wherever the team needs him. Hope that the club and him can work it out, and he stays.

Hopefully so, I certainly don't want him to leave much less to possibly end up at a Liverpool.

[Michael Tucker]

6 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Hopefully so, I certainly don't want him to leave much less to possibly end up at a Liverpool.

Now that would be tragic!

[xceleryx]

17 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

Now that would be tragic!

The ball is in Mounts court I suppose, without knowing the specifics of the contracts he's been offered it's hard to say where the hold up actually is. It's quite clear we want to retain him, so that's at least a positive sign. 

[JaneB]

Chelsea 'will demand £70m for Mason Mount this summer' with Liverpool 'seriously interested' | Daily Mail Online

Oh god 😞

 

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, JaneB said:

Chelsea 'will demand £70m for Mason Mount this summer' with Liverpool 'seriously interested' | Daily Mail Online

Oh god 😞

 

You might be lucky and he stays next season to run down his contract.
Sorry can’t see anyone spending that kind of money on MM purely because all clubs interested know there are alleged financial problems heading the clubs way this summer. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by ROTG

[thevelourfog]

2 minutes ago, ROTG said:

You might be lucky and he stays next season to run down his contract.
Sorry can’t see anyone spending that kind of money on MM purely because all clubs interested know there are alleged financial problems head the clubs way this summer. 

We'll need to sell players to comply with FFP, and we'll get most accounting bang for our buck with homegrown players. It feels inevitable to me we will sell Mason for whatever we can get, now. We've financially cornered ourselves into it. We need not only a real breakthrough in contact negotiations with Mason, but sizeable offers coming in for the likes of Gallagher, Chalobah and Loftus-Cheek from clubs they're happy to go to. Just can't see it all falling into place.

[JaneB]

53 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

We'll need to sell players to comply with FFP, and we'll get most accounting bang for our buck with homegrown players. It feels inevitable to me we will sell Mason for whatever we can get, now. We've financially cornered ourselves into it. We need not only a real breakthrough in contact negotiations with Mason, but sizeable offers coming in for the likes of Gallagher, Chalobah and Loftus-Cheek from clubs they're happy to go to. Just can't see it all falling into place.

Those three can go.  Mason is different level.  How have things got this far?  I blame GP for not valuing him and building the team around him 😡

[Sleeping Dave]

If we let Mount leave we’re absolutely insane. How it’s been allowed to get to this is beyond me. 

You simply do not let players like Mount go to a competitor. It’s as simple as that. Pay the lad a serious salary and be done with it. I’d rather see Potter go than Mount. 

[RDCW]

2 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

If we let Mount leave we’re absolutely insane. How it’s been allowed to get to this is beyond me. 

You simply do not let players like Mount go to a competitor. It’s as simple as that. Pay the lad a serious salary and be done with it. I’d rather see Potter go than Mount. 

I'd rather see Potter go than Lukaku 🥴