Media Stories, Rumours and Gossip

[flllerywhereru2]

1 minute ago, flllerywhereru2 said:

Absolutely and it shows what a factor the inneptitude/bias/fussiness of the officials is. Last night we managed to overcome that, at Fulham we may or may not dependimng on what is thrown at us. Last season the red card for Felix turned that game, hopefully this time we don't get that.

For instance Liverpool have had two soft penalties in home games where they were struggling or a goal behind this season. we seem to have the opposite treatment from officials

[paulw66]

28 minutes ago, flllerywhereru2 said:

For instance Liverpool have had two soft penalties in home games where they were struggling or a goal behind this season. we seem to have the opposite treatment from officials

Liverpool get a soft penalty when they are struggling? Knock me down with a feather. 

[paulw66]

I see Madueke was allegedly out partying, which led to his exclusion last night. 

[chara]

3 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Liverpool get a soft penalty when they are struggling? Knock me down with a feather. 

By Chelsea....Straight Red Card and penalty............ others ? let the feathers flow......

[My Blood Is Blue]

The outrage throughout the media following the Tottenham - Liverpool match, is infuriating. The red cards are fair, if you compare them to other incidents this season, we’ve seen players sent off for far less (see Gusto) and the offside call, whilst being clearly wrong and unacceptable, is not the first time it’s happened, yet it seems as though because it’s now (finally) happened to their beloved Liverpool, who as we all know are always the victims, it is deemed too much and something needs to be done about it… incredibly, the Broja own half offside incident doesn’t come up in any conversations or even talked about in the media. It’s sickeningly bias, as it always is when it’s related to this lot.

PGMOL started apologising to Liverpool before the end of the match!

[chara]

47 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

The outrage throughout the media following the Tottenham - Liverpool match, is infuriating. The red cards are fair, if you compare them to other incidents this season, we’ve seen players sent off for far less (see Gusto) and the offside call, whilst being clearly wrong and unacceptable, is not the first time it’s happened, yet it seems as though because it’s now (finally) happened to their beloved Liverpool, who as we all know are always the victims, it is deemed too much and something needs to be done about it… incredibly, the Broja own half offside incident doesn’t come up in any conversations or even talked about in the media. It’s sickeningly bias, as it always is when it’s related to this lot.

PGMOL started apologising to Liverpool before the end of the match!

Never gets old and out of use,         SHEER BUFFOONERY.🤡

They will never walk alone as long as the media survives!

[Backbiter]

53 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

The outrage throughout the media following the Tottenham - Liverpool match, is infuriating. The red cards are fair, if you compare them to other incidents this season, we’ve seen players sent off for far less (see Gusto) and the offside call, whilst being clearly wrong and unacceptable, is not the first time it’s happened, yet it seems as though because it’s now (finally) happened to their beloved Liverpool, who as we all know are always the victims, it is deemed too much and something needs to be done about it… incredibly, the Broja own half offside incident doesn’t come up in any conversations or even talked about in the media. It’s sickeningly bias, as it always is when it’s related to this lot.

PGMOL started apologising to Liverpool before the end of the match!

The Guardian has gone completely overboard:

Quote

The sending-off of Curtis Jones in the 26th minute was more puzzling, and indeed more representative of the issues with subjectivity around VAR, the illusion of precision or objective truth.

This was a very modern kind of red card: a red card that wasn’t obviously unfair or incorrect; but which also wasn’t obviously correct or fair. It was a red card that happened because the tools exist to call it into being. And because refereeing a football match has now become an active pursuit, the refereeing cadre mob-handed and tooled-up, poised with its finger on the button.

As Klopp pointed out afterwards, it was a slow-motion red card. Initially Simon Hooper awarded a foul and a yellow card as Jones tackled Yves Bissouma at close quarters. Hooper was duly summoned to the VAR screen and shown initially a freeze frame of the contact, followed by repeated slow motion replays of Bissouma’s ankle turning over.

This seems misleading in itself, unrepresentative of how sport happens in real time. Jones’s foot was off the ground, but it also slid over the top of the ball at high speed in a tiny space, end point of micro-calculations made, brain and limbs and moving ball triangulated. It was mistimed and overeager. But his foot was also touching the ball when he made contact with Bissouma’s ankle. And we know how this works. Freeze frame any incident, slow it down, it will instantly ooze guilt.

They didn't give a toss about the Gusto one last week that led to our defeat.

[Guest mrsm81]

4 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

The Guardian has gone completely overboard:

They didn't give a toss about the Gusto one last week that led to our defeat.

I try to stand back and take a view on things without my blinkers on. But I can't help but agree that's true. You only need to look at the pundits to know the media preferences. 

[Rob B]

In fairness though, this was Liverpool v Tottenham on a Saturday evening live on Sky.   Both teams were unbeaten and Man City had just lost earlier that day. 

It’s had all of the media attention because that’s the way the programme is structured.  It runs for another hour after the final whistle to pick the bones out of everything.

Ours of the other hand, wasn’t a televised match and was being played at the same time as about 4 others. 

I’ve also seen a few comments about where was the PGMOL statement for Broja’s offside.  That was again different because there was no VAR in that game and Broja hadn’t scored, so a goal wasn’t actually rescinded. 

I just put it down to really poor officiating, whatever way you look at it.   I’m not sure the standards have ever been so low. 

[Sleeping Dave]

2 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

The outrage throughout the media following the Tottenham - Liverpool match, is infuriating. The red cards are fair, if you compare them to other incidents this season, we’ve seen players sent off for far less (see Gusto) and the offside call, whilst being clearly wrong and unacceptable, is not the first time it’s happened, yet it seems as though because it’s now (finally) happened to their beloved Liverpool, who as we all know are always the victims, it is deemed too much and something needs to be done about it… incredibly, the Broja own half offside incident doesn’t come up in any conversations or even talked about in the media. It’s sickeningly bias, as it always is when it’s related to this lot.

PGMOL started apologising to Liverpool before the end of the match!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12579683/Luis-Diazs-opener-incorrectly-disallowed-VAR-official-Darren-England-wrongly-thought-goal-AWARDED-told-referee-stick-decision-Liverpools-loss-Tottenham.html
 

Quite. The bias against us is so damn obvious it’s sickening. I’m all for banning English refs from refereeing in the PL, giving the job to other European refs instead. I think the level would increase immediately. 

English refs are among the most overrated in the world. Morons in the vast majority of cases. 

[Sleeping Dave]

1 hour ago, Backbiter said:

The Guardian has gone completely overboard:

They didn't give a toss about the Gusto one last week that led to our defeat.

Klopp claiming it was a slow-motion red? 😂 Seriously, I find him to be absolutely detestable. If Jones was a wrongly called red what on earth was Gusto’s? Daylight robbery??? 

[Bones]

When was the last time PGMOL apologised to us? 😅

[Dwmh]

12 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Klopp claiming it was a slow-motion red? 😂 Seriously, I find him to be absolutely detestable. If Jones was a wrongly called red what on earth was Gusto’s? Daylight robbery??? 

There is a point for this red and Gusto that when the ref approached the screen they were shown a screenshot of the actual foot on foot with no context.  Only after they had walked 30 yds towards the screen did they play the clip.
That is exactly what you would do if you didn't want the ref to use his own judgement.

Sure this was a blatant red, not just wildly worse than the Gusto one, but worse than even the big Les one against Brighton which should have been Red (and probably would have been if VAR had turned up).

[flllerywhereru2]

1 hour ago, Backbiter said:

The Guardian has gone completely overboard:

They didn't give a toss about the Gusto one last week that led to our defeat.

Ah the Guardian who have published two articles taking a pop at Chelsea today on a weekend where we arent even playing. One of which (of course its Marshman Steinberg) calling Gustos '' a needless red card''. Compare that to the attempts to influence future officials of Liverpool games....

 

Now I'm going to be fair, Liverpool were denied a goal that could have been pivotal to their result, however both their red cards were justified. To compare Jones to Gustos-our man got the ball before catching the man, Jones missed the ball and caught the man, so you cannot say that one is and one isnt having given Gustos. But of cfourse the big difference is the attempts by pundits and ex liverpool mouthpieces to suggest it was not a red card. There are clearly still issues with VAR or the application of it ''in England'' (compare international tournmaents/european club competitions) but it is wrong to imply the red cards yesterday came under that heading.

 

But of course the medias protection of Liverpool is another issue, they still have several pro red mouthpieces in the media and given unhealthy influence of the UK media on the game (and i include the officials peformances here) it is no wonder we see some of the anomalies in games affecting Liverpool. Mostly to their benefit. This includes non decisions a la MIke Dean from VAR, in that respect yesterday was encouraging if it signals an even playing field...if...but now of course come scutiny following on from yesterday, could be a while before they get a red card again.

[chiswickblue]

5 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12579683/Luis-Diazs-opener-incorrectly-disallowed-VAR-official-Darren-England-wrongly-thought-goal-AWARDED-told-referee-stick-decision-Liverpools-loss-Tottenham.html
 

Quite. The bias against us is so damn obvious it’s sickening. I’m all for banning English refs from refereeing in the PL, giving the job to other European refs instead. I think the level would increase immediately. 

English refs are among the most overrated in the world. Morons in the vast majority of cases. 

I don't think the refs themselves are the problem, it's the culture in which they operate. English refs look decent in UEFA competitions. Italian and Spanish fans would probably say the same thing about theirs.

[chara]

6 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12579683/Luis-Diazs-opener-incorrectly-disallowed-VAR-official-Darren-England-wrongly-thought-goal-AWARDED-told-referee-stick-decision-Liverpools-loss-Tottenham.html
 

So..in the normal World the questioning person..the ref in this case repeats back the decision just to clarify and confirm...

Doesn't wash...complete F'Up...feels like someone is pulling my hair..sorry..chain.

[east lower]

4 hours ago, chiswickblue said:

I don't think the refs themselves are the problem, it's the culture in which they operate. English refs look decent in UEFA competitions. Italian and Spanish fans would probably say the same thing about theirs.

VAR offers a very rewarding source of additional income to PGMOL members that wasn’t available to them pre-VAR. 

They want VAR to continue and will do all they can do to ensure it will do. My own view is that this latest bunch of new PL referees is as poor a collective as we’ve had in years and will not be able to replace our current FIFA/UEFA licenced officials - not that, that’s a massive slight on their ability.

Scrap VAR apart from the goal-line decision system. I’ve only seen one occurrence of that failing.

[Backbiter]

2 hours ago, east lower said:

 

Scrap VAR apart from the goal-line decision system. I’ve only seen one occurrence of that failing.

That was at Villa. It was early in the season, but it was a mistake that technically got Sheff U relegated, based on the points margin at the end of the season. Somehow I doubt this latest VAR rumpus will lead to Liverpool being relegated.

What was astonishing about the non-awarded Sheff U goal was that, while the technology failed to cause the ref's watch to beep, the video evidence that the ball had crossed the line was crystal clear. But the imbeciles behind VAR had come up with a rule that video evidence could not overrule goalline technology.

As we've always known, the biggest issue with VAR is the incompetence of the officials using it.

The problem yesterday was simply that VAR failed to intervene. No different to Mike Dean over the Cucurrella hair pull which directly robbed us of two points.

[Backbiter]

10 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

That was at Villa. It was early in the season, but it was a mistake that technically got Sheff U relegated, based on the points margin at the end of the season. Somehow I doubt this latest VAR rumpus will lead to Liverpool being relegated.

What was astonishing about the non-awarded Sheff U goal was that, while the technology failed to cause the ref's watch to beep, the video evidence that the ball had crossed the line was crystal clear. But the imbeciles behind VAR had come up with a rule that video evidence could not overrule goalline technology.

As we've always known, the biggest issue with VAR is the incompetence of the officials using it.

The problem yesterday was simply that VAR failed to intervene. No different to Mike Dean over the Cucurrella hair pull which directly robbed us of two points.

Here's another instance of VAR failing to intervene:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11095/12554101/carabao-cup-final-liverpools-naby-keita-should-have-seen-red-for-trevoh-chalobah-tackle-says-jimmy-floyd-hasselbaink

Oh look. Liverpool were the beneficiaries and avoided being reduced to 10 men in the first half of a cup final they undeservedly won. We all remember the joke Lukaku offside, but this was a worse decision.

Oh look. The VAR who helped Liverpool win a trophy they shouldn't have was the same one Liverpool have said undermined 'sporting integrity'. Well, it wouldn't be the first time he's done that. But I don't recall them making that accusation until now. And funnily enough. I don't recall us receiving a grovelling apology from the PGMOL.

[martin1905]

I know I'm in the minority with a lot of my opinions but I think on this one we have to remove our hatred for Liverpool.

The decision isn't that big a deal, they have got hundreds wrong. Normally, with offfside, even if it takes ages and the line and camera angle look wrong I think they generally get it right. At least we can only hope that the technology, with the lines and camera angles, are correct and they are getting it right.

Offside should always be very black and white, there shouldn't really be any debate. Other decisions will always be down to interpretation and opinion, which is why VAR shouldn't be used for some things.

This decision though, isn't about Liverpool or that they got it wrong. It's about the fact that they didn't even put the lines on. It's about the fact that they came to a decision in seconds, without going through the correct protocols. The system for offfside is very simple. Freeze the frame at the correct moment, put the lines in, come to a decision. Yes you can argue about the moment they freeze the frame and the lines looking dodgy but to not even go through that very basic process is not acceptable, no matter the club on the recieving end of the decision.

There's a lot of Chelsea fans that think we get a raw deal, some even claiming corruption. Speak to ANY fans form ANY club and they all think the same.  We've had plenty go our way where other clubs have felt aggrieved and plenty go against us. More than others? Without seeing every single decision before and after VAR it's impossible to say.

If there is any corruption, it's not solely against us. You can't take human nature and emotions out of refereeing. These people making these decisions are football fans, some will absolutely hate us and favour other teams due to them being fans. Some may not like us due to previous encounters with individual players, staff or managers. It is literally impossible to be impartial. Can't happen even if you have no allegiance towards a club you will always have some sort of favouritism towards one club, set of fans, players, manager.

The biggest issue is the complete lack of competence by the referee's in this country. It's not being talked about anywhere near enough. The standard of refereeing is nowhere near good enough, regardless of VAR, add that in and it becomes utterly shambolic. That is the main issue and is what needs sorting out.

The next thing they absolutely have to do is remove referee's from the VAR room. Having already established theat it is impossible for them to be impartial, add in the fact that they don't want to make their mates look silly and add in the fact that you are now putting in two or three other impartial people into the decision process and it's a recipe for disaster.

They need to bring in an independent body, independent of the PGMOL. You don't have to have ever been a referee to work VAR, you just have to understand the laws of the game, from the perspective of a TV screen, not on field.

Of course none of this will ever happen and the controversy will continue, mainly because they actually want it to. It's incredible publicity for the 'brand'.

[Guest mrsm81]

Hey Martin. I think the answer is really quite simple.

VAR for instant goal line and offside. Think the tech is there to do both. 

Not have VAR for anything else.

Make every match reviewed by independent referees, just looking for abhorrent floul play. Then ban for ten Matches.

I appreciate it won't solve everything immediately but might make teams think twice.

[paulw66]

20 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

 

This decision though, isn't about Liverpool or that they got it wrong. It's about the fact that they didn't even put the lines on. It's about the fact that they came to a decision in seconds, without going through the correct protocols. The system for offfside is very simple. Freeze the frame at the correct moment, put the lines in, come to a decision. Yes you can argue about the moment they freeze the frame and the lines looking dodgy but to not even go through that very basic process is not acceptable, no matter the club on the recieving end of the decision.

 

 

I agree with the whole post, but this paragraph is key.

The statement they issued was a lie. There was no "I thought a goal had been awarded so said check complete". That is an excuse they have concocted after the event. 

The fact they didn't draw the lines and just said, crack on, means they weren't following procedure. I saw a rumour after the game that the VAR guy was in the toilet. That makes more sense, but they would never admit that in a million years. 

[paulw66]

3 minutes ago, mrsm81 said:

 

VAR for instant goal line and offside. Think the tech is there to do both. 

 

I really think there should be enough technology these days to have offside as an instant technological call, much like the goal line stuff. I have been playing video games for years, where every offside call is instant and 100% correct. There must be a way of doing with actual players in real time. 

[Mark Kelly]

I'm not sure I have faith that the blokes who flagged Broja offside in his own half have the first idea what they're doing to be honest. 

Just once I'd like to see a heartfelt apology all over the media immediately after they screw us over. Handballs in cup finals, hair pulls in penalty areas, when three ex referees safe in retirement admit they cheated us on purpose. 

An apology never comes for us though does it? 

[jasonb]

1 minute ago, Mark Kelly said:

I'm not sure I have faith that the blokes who flagged Broja offside in his own half have the first idea what they're doing to be honest. 

Just once I'd like to see a heartfelt apology all over the media immediately after they screw us over. Handballs in cup finals, hair pulls in penalty areas, when three ex referees safe in retirement admit they cheated us on purpose. 

An apology never comes for us though does it? 

The club should complain about the Broja incident it is school boy stuff!

Either they are not concentrating or are incompetent.