Media Stories, Rumours and Gossip

[Guest mrsm81]

I'd love to have eyes behind the scene. Do we know chelsea haven't complained? 

Personally,  right or wrong, I'd like a rugby style interaction over head sets. It helps hugely in understanding decisions.  We might not like it but its transparent 

 

[paulw66]

58 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

 

An apology never comes for us though does it? 

No. And moreover, Liverpool are "considering their options"..........what the hell does that mean? They are going to ask for a replay? Bonus points? Neither would surprise me.

[Bones]

39 minutes ago, mrsm81 said:

I'd love to have eyes behind the scene. Do we know chelsea haven't complained? 

Personally,  right or wrong, I'd like a rugby style interaction over head sets. It helps hugely in understanding decisions.  We might not like it but its transparent 

 

I also like of 1 VAR call during the game option by each of the captains to call it.

[Dwmh]

3 hours ago, martin1905 said:

If there is any corruption, it's not solely against us. You can't take human nature and emotions out of refereeing. These people making these decisions are football fans, some will absolutely hate us and favour other teams due to them being fans. Some may not like us due to previous encounters with individual players, staff or managers. It is literally impossible to be impartial. Can't happen even if you have no allegiance towards a club you will always have some sort of favouritism towards one club, set of fans, players, manager.

Certainly it is not against us per se.  Mind you it certainly gets much greater in those seasons where we are considered to be short odds for the title - and that is the reverse to most short odds teams.
We have had loads of decisions go for us in last 5 years. 

You can certainly add consistent ref bias in favour of Barcelona (and the ongoing case about bribing the head of refs in Spain should make that a bit clearer to everyone).

3 hours ago, martin1905 said:

If there is any corruption, it's not solely against us. You can't take human nature and emotions out of refereeing.

Yes, randomness.
There is always randomness in sport.  That is part of the fun.  Without randomness we could have games finished after 30 mins.

Balls bounce unpredictably off posts, one player slips when it doesn't matter, Gerrard when it does.
Refereeing is part of that randomness - and should be celebrated.  Football, especially the PL played over 380 games and 570 hours, needs some randomness.

That is why they put bunkers in golf courses.
 

What Football should have focused on from the start was Bias.  That is what kills sport.
But in modern days the message is king, so there could be no public focus on bias and they called it accuracy instead.

3 hours ago, martin1905 said:

The next thing they absolutely have to do is remove referee's from the VAR room. Having already established theat it is impossible for them to be impartial, add in the fact that they don't want to make their mates look silly and add in the fact that you are now putting in two or three other impartial people into the decision process and it's a recipe for disaster.

They need to bring in an independent body, independent of the PGMOL. You don't have to have ever been a referee to work VAR, you just have to understand the laws of the game, from the perspective of a TV screen, not on field.

Of course none of this will ever happen and the controversy will continue, mainly because they actually want it to. It's incredible publicity for the 'brand'.

Quite - as above a refusal to address real issues, just the ones they can discuss as part of a PR report.

The idea that refs could make fair decisions on objective matters from a tin box was disproven right from the start of Sky's live TV coverage where experts in a tin box were clearly getting it wrong from the start with amazing arrogance.

I agree being a ref doesn't help on the decisions where VAR adds clear value like offside.
Where as being part of the reffing team is a handicap.
The big problems being the relative status between the VAR man and the man in the middle (where one outranks the other).
And the thing that really needs to be stopped is the Monday meetings where refs get together and reassure themselves how well they have done and moan about how unfair Sky/BT/papers/Jose Mourinho ore equiv have been to them.

2 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

I'm not sure I have faith that the blokes who flagged Broja offside in his own half have the first idea what they're doing to be honest. 

Not helped by loads of pictures shown a full half second before the ball was played.  On TV you couldn't see ball played just Broja running over the line.  
I still don't know what that call should have been, but a lot lot closer than the pictures suggest.

[flllerywhereru2]

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

No. And moreover, Liverpool are "considering their options"..........what the hell does that mean? They are going to ask for a replay? Bonus points? Neither would surprise me.

Or is it the media banging the drum for them making it sound like they call the shots here/trying to influence future decisions going their way.  There always has to be something unfair about the matches where they lose from the media's viewpoint and in this case with justification. what is wrong is the attempt to include the red cards in with the error and the medias has done that on purpose, even the bbc has played along (shouldnt be a surprise given their love of Liverpool) with that including direct quotes doubting both sendings off

[Holymoly]

21 minutes ago, flllerywhereru2 said:

Or is it the media banging the drum

I see that a reporter from the Telegraph is "insisting" that Pochettino should be given time and criticises those suggesting he should be replaced. Surely it's the media that's saying those things in the first place? Case of if you say it often enough and loud enough then it surely will come to pass?

[thevelourfog]

3 hours ago, paulw66 said:

The statement they issued was a lie. There was no "I thought a goal had been awarded so said check complete". That is an excuse they have concocted after the event. 

I thought this, too. Especially as it came a fair bit after the initial mea culpa.

And it is exactly that "let's get our stories straight" post-hoc lie that is so damaging to sporting integrity.

Absolutely incomprehensible mistakes are going to be made from time to time in any field, whatever the level of expertise and the fail safes. Any practice culture that cannot accept this and concocts far fetched lies instead is a danger. 

28 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

What Football should have focused on from the start was Bias.  That is what kills sport.

But in modern days the message is king, so there could be no public focus on bias and they called it accuracy instead.

QFT.

I wondered if you saw this from earlier in the year.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/mar/21/inside-world-premier-league-football-referees-pgmol-howard-webb-andre-marriner-darren-england

They sit around before a game to decide who is and isn't a diver and then watch clips to reinforce that, and it's sympathetically written up as keen preparation! 

[paulw66]

34 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

 

They sit around before a game to decide who is and isn't a diver and then watch clips to reinforce that, and it's sympathetically written up as keen preparation! 

Diego Costa was a marked man before a ball was kicked. He was labelled as a thug and a cheat.........first game of the season, he rounds the Burnley goalie, gets brought down and is booked. 

[flllerywhereru2]

47 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

I see that a reporter from the Telegraph is "insisting" that Pochettino should be given time and criticises those suggesting he should be replaced. Surely it's the media that's saying those things in the first place? Case of if you say it often enough and loud enough then it surely will come to pass?

The same media that wanted potter to be given time, of course they do as Chelsea are not challengers at the moment suits them perfectly. The same media who saw the abramovich removal as some kind of restoring the natural order of things, they started getting very spiteful in tone when the new owners started making a lot of signings and drip feeding that there might be an FFP offence in the mix. That changed to attacks on the owners football knowledge  when it was clear that it wasnt the quick fix it might have been.

 

Personally i think Pochettino is  a staedy hand who will improve this squad over time. But your point is correct it was the media suggesting that. They have too much influence for the good of the game

[Dwmh]

49 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

QFT.

I wondered if you saw this from earlier in the year.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/mar/21/inside-world-premier-league-football-referees-pgmol-howard-webb-andre-marriner-darren-england

They sit around before a game to decide who is and isn't a diver and then watch clips to reinforce that, and it's sympathetically written up as keen preparation! 

Not read it (yet).  I find the Guardian even less trustworthy than the rest of the media.

But we have heard about the Monday meetings from the start.  And very clearly 15 years ago there was a very definite mindset at the PMGOL against Chelsea that they seemed quite unable to deal with.
It lead to the end of 2 refs IMO, Poll and then Clattenburg, both of whom retired early withing a few games of disastrous performances in Spurs Chelsea games.

 

16 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Diego Costa was a marked man before a ball was kicked. He was labelled as a thug and a cheat.........first game of the season, he rounds the Burnley goalie, gets brought down and is booked. 

Drogba, Robben quickly.  

[Mark Kelly]

The fall out from this Liverpool "thing" is going to be referees even more frightened into not officiating their games fairly .

None of them will be brave enough to send  a Liverpool player off again and they'll be falling over themselves to prove their goals were onside even when they weren't .

Luckily though they can balance their cowardice out by making sure we pay for every transgression , no matter how valid.

Just you watch. 

[paulw66]

and now Liverpool are appealing the Jones red card, even though it was given by VAR.

You watch how quickly this gets rescinded as an "apology" for the offside 

[chara]

Interesting clear headed discussions...first ..Mark ..I wish I could dismiss your argument as silly bias but too accurate to even smile at.

For all the level headed arguments that point out how the PG lot F'ups go across rhe whole EPL+ it must be said that when two refs reveal to the football World they cheated or deliberately influenced Chelsea games to the detriment of Chelsea it makes you look twice,

The Guardian comment from Droy....yep but they wrap it all up in pseudo intellectual wordplay just to illustrate how clever they are and how lucky we as long term Football aficionados are to have the benefit of their superior moral highground perspective.

[Backbiter]

3 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

and now Liverpool are appealing the Jones red card, even though it was given by VAR.

You watch how quickly this gets rescinded as an "apology" for the offside 

Well, they managed to get McAllister's red card overturned:

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12943540/would-this-alexis-mac-allister-red-card-be-overturned-if-appealed

Mind you, he'll no doubt be banned for this:

Quote

Liverpool midfielder Alexis Mac Allister could face FA punishment after claiming Tottenham had '12 players'

 

[thevelourfog]

12 men? Not really Tottenham's fault Matip forgot who he played for at the end, is it Alexis?

Edited October 2, 2023 by thevelourfog

[Sleeping Dave]

5 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

I'm not sure I have faith that the blokes who flagged Broja offside in his own half have the first idea what they're doing to be honest. 

Just once I'd like to see a heartfelt apology all over the media immediately after they screw us over. Handballs in cup finals, hair pulls in penalty areas, when three ex referees safe in retirement admit they cheated us on purpose. 

An apology never comes for us though does it? 

Exactly this.  No other club is treated as badly as we are. Liverpool get one bad call and the whole world is on a fucking crusade when just last weekend we got fucked over for the millionth time and nobody says a thing. 

Broja being offside in his own half? Players pulling our players hair? Referees allowing serious foul play to go on to not “impact the title race”. There are so many examples when the rules are completely re-written when it comes to us I fail to see how anyone can try to brush it away? 

[thevelourfog]

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

Not read it (yet).  I find the Guardian even less trustworthy than the rest of the media.

But we have heard about the Monday meetings from the start.  And very clearly 15 years ago there was a very definite mindset at the PMGOL against Chelsea that they seemed quite unable to deal with.
It lead to the end of 2 refs IMO, Poll and then Clattenburg, both of whom retired early withing a few games of disastrous performances in Spurs Chelsea games.

I think it's worth a read, issues with the Guardian aside, if just for the reference to the Ramires penalty against WBA a few years ago. It also has a maddening section where one ref reacts badly to criticism for not booking a Spurs player because doing so would have upset the other Spurs players and they'd have "lost control" of the match.

In a way, I feel a bit sorry for them. It doesn't seem they have any clue, or humility, about what their job actually is. 

In another, much more accurate way, I have f**k all sympathy for them.

[chara]

The Media "support" of Liverpool is astonishing especially the emphasis on "Everyone's second club" and the implication that the whole football world is incensed about the Liverpool "treatment" this (or any) game week.

The truth is most non scouse fans are somewhat pleased or at least smiley about the game in question ..WE DON'T CARE..... the Media Myth...without the Media Support they would (and do) truly Walk Alone!

[Box of Tricks]

We've been wronged so many times, you even start to forget incidents. Remember Soucek's handball last season, or Lo Celso stamping on Azpi.

Also, f**k Liverpool and everything about them. I didn't hear them standing up for the spirit of the game when Suarez bit our player, didn't get sent off, caused the additional injury time and then equalised in it.

[Mark Kelly]

7 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

I think it's worth a read, issues with the Guardian aside, if just for the reference to the Ramires penalty against WBA a few years ago. It also has a maddening section where one ref reacts badly to criticism for not booking a Spurs player because doing so would have upset the other Spurs players and they'd have "lost control" of the match.

In a way, I feel a bit sorry for them. It doesn't seem they have any clue, or humility, about what their job actually is. 

In another, much more accurate way, I have f**k all sympathy for them.

This is the real issue in a nutshell.

Referees have been encouraged over the years to "manage" games , an ideology proposed by Mike "Mavis" Riley the man who was rewarded with promotion when he should have been sacked for his part in  almost killing Petr Cech and who's continued cowardice  allowed Carlo Cudicini to also be injured in a similar way , Chelsea finishing the game with John Terry in goal. 
I do not recall an apology or any support in the media who decided that Jose Mourinho should be the target of their ire instead for embellishing the truth of what happened. 

However...

What the referees should be encouraged to do is to officiate the laws of the game in an even handed and transparent manner , not allow one side more leeway because they're scared or they have more vocal support amongst the media .

 

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

and now Liverpool are appealing the Jones red card, even though it was given by VAR.

You watch how quickly this gets rescinded as an "apology" for the offside 

No, I am quite confident that won't got overturned.  It was a shocker.

1 hour ago, Backbiter said:

Well, they managed to get McAllister's red card overturned:

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12943540/would-this-alexis-mac-allister-red-card-be-overturned-if-appealed

Mind you, he'll no doubt be banned for this:

Liverpool midfielder Alexis Mac Allister could face FA punishment after claiming Tottenham had '12 players'

 

not heard the quote, but if I were him I'd be claiming I meant an extra player as in one more than us after teh sending off and I couldn't count.

55 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

I think it's worth a read, issues with the Guardian aside, if just for the reference to the Ramires penalty against WBA a few years ago. It also has a maddening section where one ref reacts badly to criticism for not booking a Spurs player because doing so would have upset the other Spurs players and they'd have "lost control" of the match.

In a way, I feel a bit sorry for them. It doesn't seem they have any clue, or humility, about what their job actually is. 

In another, much more accurate way, I have f**k all sympathy for them.

I have printed it and it is 24 pages - so give us a chance!
Ramires was a real shocker - run into and given a blatant penalty and the world treats us as the cheats.
(Nothing like the Ramires penalty to get the old boys on this site warmed up and all in rare unison, the penalty and that chip 18 months earlier)

That was 10 years ago.  Nowadays you see that blatant "this headline is totally not backed up by the videos and pictures below" kind of story on pages 1=32.  That is the media.  I skim through someone else's copy of the Times most days, and shout out LIES 3 or 4 times a day.

34 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

This is the real issue in a nutshell.

Referees have been encouraged over the years to "manage" games , an ideology proposed by Mike "Mavis" Riley the man who was rewarded with promotion when he should have been sacked for his part in  almost killing Petr Cech and who's continued cowardice  allowed Carlo Cudicini to also be injured in a similar way , Chelsea finishing the game with John Terry in goal. 
I do not recall an apology or any support in the media who decided that Jose Mourinho should be the target of their ire instead for embellishing the truth of what happened. 

Yes.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Dwmh

[Backbiter]

50 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

This is the real issue in a nutshell.

Referees have been encouraged over the years to "manage" games , an ideology proposed by Mike "Mavis" Riley the man who was rewarded with promotion when he should have been sacked for his part in  almost killing Petr Cech and who's continued cowardice  allowed Carlo Cudicini to also be injured in a similar way ,

 

And allowed a goal-mouth scramble to take place with Carlo lying unconscious a couple of feet away.

[Backbiter]

20 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

 

not heard the quote, but if I were him I'd be claiming I meant an extra player as in one more than us after teh sending off and I couldn't count.

 

Not going to stand up in court:

Quote

Surprisingly, one of the first to comment on the post was his Argentina teammate Mac Allister, who added: “Normal when you play with 12.”

 

[Backbiter]

Breaking News: In solidarity with Liverpool, Sky Sports will no longer be showing the Fulham-Chelsea game this evening due to the sporting integrity of the Premier League being undermined on Saturday. Sky have set up a Justgiving page to crowdfund Liverpool's attempts to explore the range of options available given the clear need for escalation and resolution. 

A three-hour discussion programme will replace the live coverage. Guests will include Jamie Carragher, Phil Thompson, Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen, John Aldridge, Steve Nicol, Steve McManaman, Mark Lawrenson, Alan Hansen, Jamie Redknapp, Danny Murphy, Stephen Warnock and Graeme Souness. The programme will be presented by Kenny Dalglish's daughter.

[Mark Kelly]

27 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

Breaking News: In solidarity with Liverpool, Sky Sports will no longer be showing the Fulham-Chelsea game this evening due to the sporting integrity of the Premier League being undermined on Saturday. Sky have set up a Justgiving page to crowdfund Liverpool's attempts to explore the range of options available given the clear need for escalation and resolution. 

A three-hour discussion programme will replace the live coverage. Guests will include Jamie Carragher, Phil Thompson, Robbie Fowler, Michael Owen, John Aldridge, Steve Nicol, Steve McManaman, Mark Lawrenson, Alan Hansen, Jamie Redknapp, Danny Murphy, Stephen Warnock and Graeme Souness. The programme will be presented by Kenny Dalglish's daughter.

It's probably coming, I expect no Chelsea  Fulham focus at all pre-game, it'll be an exercise in hand wringing instead.