Media Stories, Rumours and Gossip

[thevelourfog]

Hadn't been able to recall previous PL points deductions, but having followed the coverage I do think 10 points for Everton is draconian. Portsmouth got 9 for going into administration, which imo represents a much bigger issue for the league's integrity (the real possibility of not being able to fulfill fixtures). Not that it should be a consideration, but I'm not convinced their over-spending has been of much advantage to them. Their transfer business for the last 5 years has been appalling.

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

Hadn't been able to recall previous PL points deductions, but having followed the coverage I do think 10 points for Everton is draconian. Portsmouth got 9 for going into administration, which imo represents a much bigger issue for the league's integrity (the real possibility of not being able to fulfill fixtures). Not that it should be a consideration, but I'm not convinced their over-spending has been of much advantage to them. Their transfer business for the last 5 years has been appalling.

I've seen others say that, incl. Carragher. I don't know what the right amount is - if they were only 20 million over the threshold then other clubs could be in for some heavy punishments.

[Max Fowler]

4 hours ago, Floyd25 said:

Really, you’d be okay if they started stripping us of titles that we won in the Roman era? I’d walk away from the sport. 

Depends what we did wrong. Do you think City deserve to have their titles stripped?
Rumours they might. Assume it won't come to that with us...

All depends on scale of the crime but we can't have it both ways I am afraid.

[Max Fowler]

10 hours ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

Only it was stolen, wasn’t it. The govt were happy to take all that Russian (and Chinese etc) money for decades. Then suddenly it’s all dirty? It’s all a show. There’s so much Russian money invested they’ll never get to it (and I doubt they want to). Roman was an easy target despite having owned Chelsea for nearly 2 decades. So what IF he knew Putin? No evidence has ever been produced of any wrongdoing on Roman’s part. 

It stinks and everyone knows it. 

I mean the BBC literally reported the other day about cash links between Roman and Putin.

The point is you cannot have Putin pressuring Russian oligarchs for money to fund a war against a western nation. Without wishing to go too much into politics here, it always made sense to me that we needed to cut off potential financial supplies to Putin. And we know he will do anything to his oligarchs.

Politics and sport is complicated. Russia for a while for just on the right side of evil. Then they crossed it. Saudi Arabia are in that position now. 

I actually think we got quite a good deal out of the whole affair. Okay I have also been highly critical of the owners, but they cannot leverage debt against the club, have to invest a lot in the squad, the stadium etc. I also think they are ultimately good owners.

You make out like we've just been tossed to the sharks when we've spent more money under the new owners than any club in history.

[My Blood Is Blue]

9 hours ago, Ham said:

Jason Burt reporting that Chelsea expect a large fine and/or transfer ban on the grounds that they self reported and set aside £100m with this in mind.

If they anticipated something like this, that might explain the insanely busy transfer windows. 

This would make a lot of sense. The club wouldn’t have gone to the league with the evidence etc without having a really good look into the rules to try and work out what the punishment would be, so they could try and get a step ahead.

[Max Fowler]

11 hours ago, Dwmh said:

RA certainly had ties to Putin.  The question is not whether RA has his assets stolen but whether the Russia asset loss was thefit.  It was theft.   $300bn of state assets as well as a load of private financial assets property and yachts.  
I agree RA wasn't treated any different to other Russians, but it was certainly theft.  Only partly compensated by theft by Russia of western assets in Russia 

Rather that US and UK provoked a situation and refused to consider Russia's alternatives to avoid a war then blocked a negotiated peace.

Will have to agree to disagree on who started the war (simply - it was Putin).

He changed the game for many oligarchs like Roman living in the grey area in the West. Technically I think his assets were frozen not stolen - only Chelsea has been sold and arguments are still happening on where the money will go.

We all loved Roman but we need to also be in touch with the reality of issues beyond football.

[Max Fowler]

From the Times - looks like we might be getting relegated! 

https://archive.ph/mDKs1#selection-2039.0-2042.0

[Dwmh]

48 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I mean the BBC literally reported the other day about cash links between Roman and Putin.

 

Not read it but cash links between Putin and Oligarchs have been reported pretty much every year for 20 years.  None of them are backed by hard evidence - just a strong cash flow going into finding stories about Putin.
We had the various Pandora and Paradise hacks which all turned out to finger the wrong people (like Poroshenko in Ukraine and not Putin).

 

38 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Will have to agree to disagree on who started the war (simply - it was Putin).

You'll have to wait to find out.  But everything I have read in western media for past 12 months talks about a Ukrainian attack on Russians.
Certainly the sanctions war has a far longer history than the wars in Ukraine.  As has the continued bs about Putin.

[chrisb]

23 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

From the Times - looks like we might be getting relegated! 

https://archive.ph/mDKs1#selection-2039.0-2042.0

With the eight year contracts most of our players have signed we should have a few years with the best squad in the Championship!

Unless City come with us….

[Sciatika]

@Max FowlerI think it is saying charges are inevitable (which they are). But we don't know two key things:

a) how will the FA judge self-reported breaches of FFP? They might decide to be lenient to encourage others to report similar breaches 

b) can they prove that payments made by the former owner were specifically related to Chelsea FC and to what degree? That may not be as simple as it looks. Bear in mind he has had relationships with CSKA, the Russian national team, the National Academy of Football in Russia, a foundation for bringing together Jewish and Arab children, especially girls, playing football. I think he also has interests in other clubs. However, they have a lower requirement of proof than formal legal proof.

 

[Sciatika]

For balance, let's ask the Judge in the Berezovsky case:

"There was no evidential basis supporting the contention that Mr Abramovich was in a position to manipulate, or otherwise influence, President Putin, or officers in his administration, to exercise their powers in such a way as to enable Mr Abramovich to achieve his own commercial goals." - Mrs Justice Gloster, Berezovsky v Abramovich

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19654189
 

[east lower]

Lot’s of gossip around about how Man City (charged) and us (no charges, just a Guardian led campaign- those last bastions of truth and justice!) will be relegated or some other penalty.

If I were a top level executive at the PL, I’d be mindful of the repercussions of such punishment. It’s just the catalyst that the clubs who would have formed part of a Super League need to resurrect that idea.

Best League in the World ©️, not without a certain few clubs. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by east lower

[Max Fowler]

43 minutes ago, east lower said:

Lot’s of gossip around about how Man City (charged) and us (no charges, just a Guardian led campaign- those last bastions of truth and justice!) will be relegated or some other penalty.

If I were a top level executive at the PL, I’d be mindful of the repercussions of such punishment. It’s just the catalyst that the clubs who would have formed part of a Super League need to resurrect that idea.

Best League in the World ©️, not without a certain few clubs. 

But it also destroys the integrity of the PL to have the team who has won it 5 of the last 7 seasons or whatever having effectively cheated their way to the title.

Fans have had their say on the Super League - fans also want the PL to cut out cheating and to have confidence that FFP breaches will be punished.

[Max Fowler]

51 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

@Max FowlerI think it is saying charges are inevitable (which they are). But we don't know two key things:

a) how will the FA judge self-reported breaches of FFP? They might decide to be lenient to encourage others to report similar breaches 

Apparently Everton were openly and transparently cooperating with the PL and that's why they feel hard done by. 

Suggests that us self-reporting will have little impact on what is a big punishment coming our way.

[Max Fowler]

51 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

For balance, let's ask the Judge in the Berezovsky case:

"There was no evidential basis supporting the contention that Mr Abramovich was in a position to manipulate, or otherwise influence, President Putin, or officers in his administration, to exercise their powers in such a way as to enable Mr Abramovich to achieve his own commercial goals." - Mrs Justice Gloster, Berezovsky v Abramovich

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19654189
 

The point isn't Roman leaning on Putin though, it's the other way round.

If Putin says to Roman - give me a few billion to fund my war, Roman can't do anything to stop him.

[Mark Kelly]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

I mean the BBC literally reported the other day about cash links between Roman and Putin

The BBC those bastions of impartiality.

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

Not read it but cash links between Putin and Oligarchs have been reported pretty much every year for 20 years.  None of them are backed by hard evidence - just a strong cash flow going into finding stories about Putin.

The point is not whether there are links, backhanded deals etc. The point is, Putin can pressure Russian oligarchs including Roman to fund his war. Hence - https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/putin-hits-oligarchs-with-5-3b-war-tax-20230614-p5dggl and plenty more previously.

[Max Fowler]

1 minute ago, Mark Kelly said:

The BBC those bastions of impartiality.

Again, I've been highly critical of the BBC Mark.

But I am yet to hear one bit of criticism towards Putin who essentially started this war of his own accord. Okay, Western governments sanction Russia and these structural issues are worth taking into account.

But the reality of the situation is - Putin is a murderous dictator who started this war for his own posterity. That put our club in a massive mess simply because of Roman being a Russian oligarch, let alone his ties to Putin.

The BBC has its biases, the Guardian has its biases. Both can improve a lot, particularly the latter.

But the importance of that pales into comparison with the stark reality that Putin has started a war that has killed hundreds of thousands of people. That is the reality. 

And the idea that that is not the reality because actually there is some great woke media conspiracy against our football club is embarrassing. 

Maybe we should remember how well Tuchel handled questions about Ukraine, who understands that there are some things much more important than football - including the wars that his homeland was responsible for.

MODS: And I am really trying to make this about football and Chelsea, not politics.

 

 

[JaneB]

I’m sure we all have ‘real’ things to worry about in our own lives but this is really upsetting me.

Just when the team seem to be getting back on track.

[Max Fowler]

10 minutes ago, JaneB said:

I’m sure we all have ‘real’ things to worry about in our own lives but this is really upsetting me.

Just when the team seem to be getting back on track.

Potentially one bright note is that it can't really be blamed on the new owners, unlike everything else so far. Maybe we will come out of this more united than ever!

[east lower]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

But it also destroys the integrity of the PL to have the team who has won it 5 of the last 7 seasons or whatever having effectively cheated their way to the title.

Fans have had their say on the Super League - fans also want the PL to cut out cheating and to have confidence that FFP breaches will be punished.

The world and his wife could see what City were up to, Newcastle are doing the self-same thing now. Not many of us cried when RA outspent every other club in the world for 5 or 6 years., spending extortionately and well beyond our commercial revenues.  Did all those trophies destroy the integrity of the PL or make them any less significant to you or I?

If you don't know it already (snd I suspect you will) football fans are fickle and will turn their views as soon as their club are effected, more importantly the new owners will need to show profit eventually.  If the 'rules' restrict them, they'll get the rules changed, or change the narrative completely. 

Everton have been used as an example for the others to see - 'Look how tough we are' and when they appeal let's see what happens.

City's and Newcastle's owners are wealthy enough to front buying the PL itself or the TV Deals or Sky, TNT or whomsoever else they need to. 

We might get fined and possibly as someone else said a transfer ban, City will get a slapped wrist in a similar way 

Edited November 18, 2023 by east lower

[Mark Kelly]

I hope , and it's a reach to be honest , that the Premier league aren't stupid enough to destroy the goose that lays the golden eggs and herald in the European super league by dint of the way they handle these events. 

[east lower]

44 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I hope , and it's a reach to be honest , that the Premier league aren't stupid enough to destroy the goose that lays the golden eggs and herald in the European super league by dint of the way they handle these events. 

They're kinda damned if they do, and damned if they don't.  I really don't mean what I say disrespectfully next as regards Everton but the PL have used them. The only people that really care are the Everton fans who've contributed zero to the place they find themselves in and now the clubs who think they can make money for themselves out of the timing of the penalty. The latter and the legal action that the relegated clubs are rumoured to be considering will result in the 10 points being reduced or suspended. 

The English Leagues can't have football clubs eating themselves. 

It's a warning shot, fired at others but effecting a club who probably won't threaten the status-quo.

No one is really harmed unlike say the Portsmouth scenario when lots of medium/small businesses lost a lot of money or their livelihoods.  With Messrs Story & Redknapp riding off onto pastures new and 10's of millions richer. Portsmouth got a 9 point penalty!

Edited November 18, 2023 by east lower

[Chelsea_Matt]

5 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

I mean the BBC literally reported the other day about cash links between Roman and Putin.

The point is you cannot have Putin pressuring Russian oligarchs for money to fund a war against a western nation. Without wishing to go too much into politics here, it always made sense to me that we needed to cut off potential financial supplies to Putin. And we know he will do anything to his oligarchs.

Politics and sport is complicated. Russia for a while for just on the right side of evil. Then they crossed it. Saudi Arabia are in that position now. 

I actually think we got quite a good deal out of the whole affair. Okay I have also been highly critical of the owners, but they cannot leverage debt against the club, have to invest a lot in the squad, the stadium etc. I also think they are ultimately good owners.

You make out like we've just been tossed to the sharks when we've spent more money under the new owners than any club in history.

What has Todd ‘n’ Eggy’s spending have to do with it?

Also I’m sure the Qatari and Saudi owners have done way, WAY than what Roman is alleged to have been involved in. Where’s the consistency?

As I said, Roman may well have known Putin. It may have been in RA’s interests to do business with him. But there’s no evidence of wrongdoing - and espesh any that affected Chelsea. 
 

[Dwmh]

3 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

The point is not whether there are links, backhanded deals etc. The point is, Putin can pressure Russian oligarchs including Roman to fund his war. Hence - https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/putin-hits-oligarchs-with-5-3b-war-tax-20230614-p5dggl and plenty more previously.

So Putin is hitting the Oligarchs with tax, while Biden is funding Ukraine entirely out of increased debt for the nation.  US subsidies for Ukraine in USD are a little larger than the entire annual military budget for Russia.
I wonder who that will cost most in the long run  (Ukrainians obviously).

 

3 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

But I am yet to hear one bit of criticism towards Putin who essentially started this war of his own accord. Okay, Western governments sanction Russia and these structural issues are worth taking into account.

But the reality of the situation is - Putin is a murderous dictator who started this war for his own posterity. That put our club in a massive mess simply because of Roman being a Russian oligarch, let alone his ties to Putin.

The BBC has its biases, the Guardian has its biases. Both can improve a lot, particularly the latter.

But the importance of that pales into comparison with the stark reality that Putin has started a war that has killed hundreds of thousands of people. That is the reality. 

And the idea that that is not the reality because actually there is some great woke media conspiracy against our football club is embarrassing. 

Just for the record a sensible estimate 
Ukrainian civilian deaths since Feb 2022  9700   
Gazan civilian deaths (first 25 days)             8796

Russian military deaths estimate since Feb 2022       50,000
Ukrainian military deaths estimate                                   450,000
Hamas military deaths estimate                                             <1000

That you argue Putin started this war on his own accord is clear evidence you have been stuffed with fake news about the "EntirelyUnprovokedInvasionOfUkraine TM BBC".

Look at those numbers (they are good estimates i assure you) the one thing Russia has been spectacularly good at is avoiding unnecessary deaths of civilians.  In that sense it has been a quite unique war in history.

Britain and US decided to cut off all relationships between Europe and Russia.  US then destroyed orth Stream 2.  It happened.  Lets not pretend it was not deliberate or that silly propaganda about Putin has some basis in fact.