Transfer Talk Topic

[Original 21]

Okay. I’m feeling a bit more positive about Felix now that it’s happening. Felix was not a signing I was expecting, but now that he’s here I’m looking forward to seeing him play. Clearly a huge talent coming into his prime and he’s happy to be here and was willing to fit into our new wage structure.

Overall, the Board must be pleased with this deal as we’ve offloaded a player deemed surplus to requirements, got a nice profit on the yearly accounts, and spread out the Felix fee over several years. Also, looks like it might lead to the departure of Sterling who came here on huge wages and has been a disappointment.

Pretty ruthless stuff and a bit of a gamble but if it also means we get Osimhen instead of Omorodian then I’d regard it as an upgrade. Felix and Osimhen is better than Gallagher and Omorodian. So I can see the  logic. 

Edited August 20 by Original 21

[Miguelito07]

5 minutes ago, Original 21 said:

Also, looks like it might lead to the departure of Sterling who came here on huge wages and has been a disappointment.

would be very surprised if Sterling leaves

[Max Fowler]

38 minutes ago, RDCW said:

 I was astonished when Butch Wilkins was made Chelsea captain at 18, Will Carling captain of the England rugby team at 21, John Terry at 21 etc, but they ended up being inspired choices. Leaders will emerge from any group and whether men will follow is dependent on their character, not their age. 

When JT was 21, he had around him Le Saux and Desailly at 33, Petit at 31, Hasselbank at 29, Cudicini at 29, as well as Gallas and Melchiot at 24 and 25.

With all due respect mate, the situations are hardly comparable, and Thiago is a strange example too because he was not just experienced, he was far past his prime.

[Max Fowler]

45 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

 Just constantly moan will get us nowhere and I don't believe those that are negative are looking at the playing side of things fairly. It says it all with the amount of criticism we received during pre season. The manager and squad have been written off before a ball has been kicked. So many on here have dismissed us having any chance of doing anything.

With all due respect Martin, you were unbelievably critical of our football under Poch despite him leading us to our most successful spell under the new owners, so you won't blame me for feeling this is all a bit pot calling kettle black.

Edited August 20 by Max Fowler

[Mark Kelly]

5 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

When JT was 21, he had around him Le Saux and Desailly at 33, Petit at 31, Hasselbank at 29, Cudicini at 29, as well as Gallas and Melchiot at 24 and 25.

With all due respect mate, the situations are hardly comparable, and Thiago is a strange example too because he was not just experienced, he was far past his prime.

Ah , it was all down to Petit , possibly the worst signing of any club anywhere. 

[Thiago97]

7 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

With all due respect Martin, you were unbelievably critical of our football under Poch despite him leading us to our most successful spell under the new owners, so you won't blame me for feeling this is all a bit pot calling kettle black.

It’s hypocrisy of the highest order. He wanted the last manager out after 3 games. Yet pleads for a period of time to judge the players and manager now. 

[Ham]

20 minutes ago, Rob B said:

No idea where you are getting £399m from mate.  

Enzo, Caicedo, Lavia, Muydrk, Fofana, Sterling, Palmer, Cucerella amount to more than £0.5b and that is before Badiashille, Jackson, Madueke, Disasi, Gusto, Nkunku, Chukwuemeka etc.

We have definitely spent a billion pounds on transfer fees for the first team squad.   

What we spent wasn't my point.  

I calculated the value of purchases made, less players subsequently sold, less players who were injured for the entire season and less players bought but not joining until 2025.  

Basically the value of the new purchases that we actually benefitted from last season. 

For the avoidance of doubt, I know that we've spent over a billion. 

I was drilling down into the detail. 

[Ham]

1 minute ago, Thiago97 said:

It’s hypocrisy of the highest order. He wanted the last manager out after 3 games. Yet pleads for a period of time to judge the players and manager now. 

Perhaps he's more positive because we have a full squad available bar James and so there are no excuses this season. 

[Thiago97]

9 minutes ago, Ham said:

Perhaps he's more positive because we have a full squad available bar James and so there are no excuses this season. 

Maybe. Still doesn’t stack . One manager needs sacking 3 games in. New manager has a better situation and we need to be patient and give it time ( I do agree with the sentiment though- just can’t help but smile at the hypocrisy)

[Mark Kelly]

Look at what those wankers have done now !

[RDCW]

10 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

When JT was 21, he had around him Le Saux and Desailly at 33, Petit at 31, Hasselbank at 29, Cudicini at 29, as well as Gallas and Melchiot at 24 and 25.

With all due respect mate, the situations are hardly comparable, and Thiago is a strange example too because he was not just experienced, he was far past his prime.

When people say, "With all due respect," it usually means, "I am just about to trash your opinions, for which I have no respect whatever" 😂

You asked me if I genuinely believed this squad could develop into a an effective unit without "experienced" leaders; I said that in my view it could, if there were suitable characters amongst the youthful ranks. At the same time I said that the absence of experience would possibly delay the squad's development into what it could ultimately become. I mentioned Thaigo Silva as he had exactly the levels of experience you appear to be calling for. That he was past his prime as an elite defender is irrelevant to the value of his experience to the squad. 

As to your reference to the ages of the squad members captained by JT it could be argued that captaining old pros could be more challenging than doing so with youngsters.

If you look at my post as a whole, I think it is a reasonable response to your question : it isn't necessarily the way I would have built the squad, but they have clearly looked at the respective costs of youth v experience and decided to go the youthful route rather than a more balanced one. That means they have, theoretically, acquired good value resources (again a matter of opinion), the additional practical cost of which will be in the time taken to get up to speed.

I reiterate, I think this squad is shaping up to be very effective indeed, although a top keeper and a top striker are the two positions which have, bafflingly, not yet been addressed.

[martin1905]

50 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

With all due respect Martin, you were unbelievably critical of our football under Poch despite him leading us to our most successful spell under the new owners, so you won't blame me for feeling this is all a bit pot calling kettle black.

Completely different Max.

Pochettino has had a whole career to be judged on. Was never the right man and that proved to be the case. 

[Max Fowler]

28 minutes ago, RDCW said:

 

You asked me if I genuinely believed this squad could develop into a an effective unit without "experienced" leaders; I said that in my view it could, if there were suitable characters amongst the youthful ranks. At the same time I said that the absence of experience would possibly delay the squad's development into what it could ultimately become. I mentioned Thaigo Silva as he had exactly the levels of experience you appear to be calling for. That he was past his prime as an elite defender is irrelevant to the value of his experience to the squad. 

As to your reference to the ages of the squad members captained by JT it could be argued that captaining old pros could be more challenging than doing so with youngsters.

If you look at my post as a whole, I think it is a reasonable response to your question : it isn't necessarily the way I would have built the squad, but they have clearly looked at the respective costs of youth v experience and decided to go the youthful route rather than a more balanced one. That means they have, theoretically, acquired good value resources (again a matter of opinion), the additional practical cost of which will be in the time taken to get up to speed.

I reiterate, I think this squad is shaping up to be very effective indeed, although a top keeper and a top striker are the two positions which have, bafflingly, not yet been addressed.

Someone being 40 is not irrelevant to the experience they bring to the squad. We need players in the 28-35 bracket (like Man City) who can lead by example on and off the pitch. Sure, young players could learn from Thiago, and I wanted us to keep him for another season, but he is not a player around his prime like Walker, Bernardo, KDB, Rodri, Kovacic etc. at Man City. 

Of course our defenders couldn't learn from Thiago at 40 like they could at 30, he was a different player to model and work with. Plus, Thiago alone couldn't stop the ship from sinking. If we had other experienced, top-level pros to support him, perhaps our defence wouldn't have been so leaky after all...

You are being reasonable but the idea that we are only missing a top GK and ST is equally baffling. Have you seen our CB options? We lack "top players" across the forward line and across the midfield. We have a lot of talent, sure, but talented players alone do not make a winning squad.

We need a mix of young talent, experience, leadership and mental qualities - like every other successful club has needed in the history of world football. Just letting our current crop get older won't cut it - they will learn to be mediocre rather than to become winners like those who should be around them.

[Original 21]

2 hours ago, Miguelito07 said:

would be very surprised if Sterling leaves

Yes. Not much time in the window. But if he’s not even getting in the match day squad then he might have to consider his options. He’d probably have to take a big wage cut too. But Felix did it to get the move he wanted. Or he could just sit it out and collect his wages. Don’t know if he’s that sort of person.

From the club’s position getting Sterling’s wages off the books would make it easier to bring in Osimhen, so I get why they’re pushing Sterling to make a decision. 

Edited August 20 by Original 21

[Sleeping Dave]

5 hours ago, Ham said:

I did post on this very subject before this window. 

I calculated that the billion was actually £399m if you only took into account players that the first team squad could call on last season.  

What? So far we have spent €1.35m on new players (not counting the ones joining next season). We’ve sold players for €500m. Many of whom would not make any meaningful contribution to the first team. So not sure why you are trying to dress it up? Net spend of €850m and we are no better than when they took over. 

3 hours ago, Ham said:

That's the main issue on here at the moment. The very small minority who see some positivity in all of this aren't able to ever move the conversation away from the constant negativity. 

It's depressing. The same criticisms every single day from multiple posters. 

My point was that the billion pound tag was being used lazily by our opponents as the value of players available last season to exaggerate the level of our failure. 

We didn't have a billion pound squad, sales weren't being taken into account and neither were players bought for the future and players who couldn't even walk. 

I know that we've spent over a billion but that doesn't equate to a billion pound squad. 

That was all.  

Transfermarkt would disagree. They value our squad to €1.11m. 

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

Completely different Max.

Pochettino has had a whole career to be judged on. Was never the right man and that proved to be the case. 

That was certainly not proved to be the case. It’s your opinion it was proven, many would disagree. Let’s see where we end up this season. Anything but 5th surely seen as not good enough I presume? So we fire Maresca if he gets us 6th? 

[Ham]

7 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

What? So far we have spent €1.35m on new players (not counting the ones joining next season). We’ve sold players for €500m. Many of whom would not make any meaningful contribution to the first team. So not sure why you are trying to dress it up? Net spend of €850m and we are no better than when they took over. 

Transfermarkt would disagree. They value our squad to €1.11m. 

 

I don't know how many times I can explain this.  

Our squad may well be valued now at £1b but I was referring to how many of the billion spent by TBSD were available in the first team squad throughout last season. 

This was the post I was specifically replying to today. That's the relevance. 

[BMox81]

This is easily the worst this place has ever been. Really not a nice place to be around at present.

[chara]

17 minutes ago, BMox81 said:

This is easily the worst this place has ever been. Really not a nice place to be around at present.

That is something of an unfair comment.

A Forum is for discussion of all aspects ,in our case, Chelsea,

It's not just the touchy-feely good stuff that's up for discussion at any time.

There are so many discussion worthy issues at the moment and the different view points expressed are what makes any debate interesting.

It would be great to be basking in shared triumph (as we have done)  but deep concern about OUR club is the real motivation at this time.

[Chelsea_Matt]

29 minutes ago, BMox81 said:

This is easily the worst this place has ever been. Really not a nice place to be around at present.

It’s healthy debate and never personal - at least not from me, Broseph 🩷🎯🩶

[JaneB]

8 minutes ago, BMox81 said:

This is easily the worst this place has ever been. Really not a nice place to be around at present.

I'm really upset that you feel like that.  

We (especially Sam @My Blood Is Blue) have worked so hard to get this new forum up and running and the last thing we want is for it to continually be a place of conflict.  We were hoping it would be a more relaxed, fun place.

This is a general comment not aimed at anyone in particular but if all you guys met at a match or in a pub I bet you would all enjoy interacting with each other, listen to different opinions and then put yours forward, all in a civilised way.  You'd shake hands and look forward to the next time.

Why not on here? 

There has to be a point where people say "Okay, we're all passionate about the club and we're going through a difficult time so a lot of emotions are coming out.  Nothing wrong with that but there's come a point where we have to agree to disagree and leave the discussion, otherwise it can get toxic not to mention off putting for other members".

I feel very negative about the club at the moment but I'm willing to listen to more optimistic viewpoints.  And I'm sure that those who feel more optimistic understand there are some who don't share that feeling.

There shouldn't be any one-upmanship, just robust conversation.

Let's all grow up and chill out 🙂💙👍

  

[Bert19]

Well said @JaneB

[chara]

Regardless on where any of us stand across the spectrum of views on the affairs at Chelsea..that covers everything not just the game issues,..we all are passionate about OUR Club...no one can, (or has) accuse another poster of not caring just because he/she has a different standpoint.

I think it was @Thiago97 who mentioned how he saw things as a 39 year old (I wish!) but highlights the different influences on all our reactions at this time.

I know I belabour the OG thing but unfortunately it is a fact,,,,,I have actively supported, followed, cried,cheered and enjoyed my club for half again the time he has been on this earth,,,not a put down at all just to illustrate that my views have been influenced by a different set of experiences..some of which overlap with many on here at different levels.

This is reflected in part by the many layered posts and opinions on here...unfortunately we are in a difficult time and that is the emphasis in most discussions...after the great Triumphs the emphasis was on the joy..just the everchanging fortunes of our Club...not a reason for despairing of the content.

Added,,,,remember the catharic benefits of expressing heartfelt concerns with fellow travellers cannot be quantified,

 

Edited August 20 by chara

[BMox81]

41 minutes ago, JaneB said:

I'm really upset that you feel like that.  

We (especially Sam @My Blood Is Blue) have worked so hard to get this new forum up and running and the last thing we want is for it to continually be a place of conflict.  We were hoping it would be a more relaxed, fun place.

This is a general comment not aimed at anyone in particular but if all you guys met at a match or in a pub I bet you would all enjoy interacting with each other, listen to different opinions and then put yours forward, all in a civilised way.  You'd shake hands and look forward to the next time.

Why not on here? 

There has to be a point where people say "Okay, we're all passionate about the club and we're going through a difficult time so a lot of emotions are coming out.  Nothing wrong with that but there's come a point where we have to agree to disagree and leave the discussion, otherwise it can get toxic not to mention off putting for other members".

I feel very negative about the club at the moment but I'm willing to listen to more optimistic viewpoints.  And I'm sure that those who feel more optimistic understand there are some who don't share that feeling.

There shouldn't be any one-upmanship, just robust conversation.

Let's all grow up and chill out 🙂💙👍

  

Im not suggesting that the effort hasn’t been put in. Especially what with getting the forum back up and running.

For me I guess there was always the discussion but we had the fallback of the trophies won to offset anything else. Without that it’s just the continual bickering.

And while I’m not suggesting that it has to be all lovey dovey, there is also the opposite that it doesn’t have to be all doom and gloom either.

Apologies for making my comment.

 

[Sleeping Dave]

1 hour ago, Ham said:

I don't know how many times I can explain this.  

Our squad may well be valued now at £1b but I was referring to how many of the billion spent by TBSD were available in the first team squad throughout last season. 

This was the post I was specifically replying to today. That's the relevance. 

Not sure why we would have to split it, spending top dollar on any player means we can't spend top dollar on another player. It's a sunk cost and the opportunity cost is not being able to spend money on someone else.  

The absolute vast majority of the money spent has been on players supposed to contribute to the first team. The money we've spent on players never meant for the first team is negligble. Also, if you are removing spend on players you deem is not for the first team, why do you include sales from players who are not deemed to be first team contributors? 

Here's the detailed breakdown. 

Kellyman €22.5m

Anselmino €16.5

Wiley €10.1

Washington €16m

Angelo €15m

Casadei €15m

Santos €12.5m

DD Fofana €12m

Slonina €9m

That sums up to €128.6m of the €1.3bn we've spent on new players. Again, I'm not including Paez and Estevao since they are deals for next season. Now, the €500m we've sold players for are also including a number of players who were never going to be part of the first team squad. But even if you subtract the full amount, you still arrive at a new spend figure of €671m. 

[JaneB]

1 minute ago, BMox81 said:

Im not suggesting that the effort hasn’t been put in. Especially what with getting the forum back up and running.

For me I guess there was always the discussion but we had the fallback of the trophies won to offset anything else. Without that it’s just the continual bickering.

And while I’m not suggesting that it has to be all lovey dovey, there is also the opposite that it doesn’t have to be all doom and gloom either.

Apologies for making my comment.

 

Noooooooo, please don’t apologise!!! 
I meant that I was upset you were upset, that’s all.  No criticism meant.