Transfer Talk Topic

[xceleryx]

For those unimpressed a couple quick ones if I may.

1. Who would've been your alternative to Toney and Osimhen?
2. With interest in Sterling virtually non-existent because of his contract, would you've preferred us to have kept him while paying his full wages to sit in the stands up until January as a best case? 
3. Sancho is obviously a luxury for a position we had options in, most likely lead by Shield's who worked with him at City. For what looks like a future £25m fee next season, is it not a gamble worth taking for a player whose value was 3x that amount only a couple years ago? And one we'd likely still sell for more than we're going to end up paying United even if he doesn't pan out entirely.
4. Which available "world class" goalkeeper would've satisfied and been realistic? 
5. Similar applies in the CB department. And don't say Chalobah - he's been on the market for months, drawn little to no grand interest, and isn't close to being any sort of remedy.

[BMox81]

Ah, you all had a wonderful transfer deadline day I see.

Edited August 31 by BMox81

[Morgs]

24 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Despite desperately trying to remain positive for a while this was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

Toney available but our self imposed age barrier deems him unsignable.

Osimhen available but our self imposed wage structure deems him unsignable 

Rumours of a transfer ban due to cheating by the previous regime being uncovered will leave us with no out and out Centre forward for however many seasons the Premier league who hate us already decide they can get away with.

To add to this we actively help United with their FFP obligations by taking a millstone from around their necks and placing it around our own.

We top this by gifting  Arsenal, a club who I wouldn't give the steam off my piss to , Sterling to help them win the league and are actually paying him to do it.

Winstanley , Stewart and Egbahli need to go today and Clearlake need to employ someone with the first fucking clue what they're doing in their stead.

With all this in mind, and you are spot on right Mark old son, I'd like to reinforce what you are saying by noting:

We have spent 200m+ to:

 

Gallagher to Drinkwater-Hall. 

Maatsen AND Chillwell to Veiga

Petrovic to Jorgensen 

Silva AND Chalobah to Adarabioyo

Broja to Guiu

Sterling to Sancho

 

Of these you could perhaps argue Guiu was not a downgrade (thought not an upgrade) and Veiga may yet prove to be decent. 

But I make that eight downgrades.  Felix is an absolute nothing as a player and is an utterly meaningless signing. 

Neto is the only positive signing we've made and he doesnt get anywhere near offsetting the damage we have done to the squad this window. 

....and perhaps just as astonishing as us somehow managing not to actually sign a f**king striker is that Mudryk still plays for Chelsea. 

Failure. 

Massive, indefensible failure on a systemic level. We've not just weakened the squad substantially, we've fatally undermined the team's morale and the appeal of the club for new and existing players, undermined the academy, moved on most of what little experience we had in the squad and failed to address the two major, gaping holes in the side that fatally undermined us and cost Poch his job last season. 

Absolutely jaw dropping. 

I hope we do get a transfer ban, honestly. Jelly and ice cream round mine the day they announce that.  F**k off Chelsea. 

[Morgs]

Call me a cynic, but I wonder what the odds are for Jackson to do his ACL next game are, by the way? 

[Thiago97]

30 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Despite desperately trying to remain positive for a while this was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

Toney available but our self imposed age barrier deems him unsignable.

Osimhen available but our self imposed wage structure deems him unsignable 

Rumours of a transfer ban due to cheating by the previous regime being uncovered will leave us with no out and out Centre forward for however many seasons the Premier league who hate us already decide they can get away with.

To add to this we actively help United with their FFP obligations by taking a millstone from around their necks and placing it around our own.

We top this by gifting  Arsenal, a club who I wouldn't give the steam off my piss to , Sterling to help them win the league and are actually paying him to do it.

Winstanley , Stewart and Egbahli need to go today and Clearlake need to employ someone with the first fucking clue what they're doing in their stead.

I'm pleased you are seeing the light!

Anyone trying to justify this complete shit show level planning and execution of managing a football club simply has their head firmly buried in the sand.

The only reason this place is not in a complete meltdown right now is purely because 2-6 at Wolves is still fresh in peoples mind.

Even forgetting about the last few days of Toney/Osimhen. That suggests clearly that they were interested in signing a new big name No9 and at a considerable cost. The Osimhen situation was clear months ago, so why not go and float a massive bid under Newcastle nose for Isak. Not saying we could have got him or them to sell, but financially its going to be in the ball park of Osimhen deal.  He would probably cost £100m to buy, but would more likely be a closer fit with their wage structure.

They have had all summer to address a number of issues in/out. Yet they have failed miserably with how they have handled both incomings and outgoings.

It really is only a matter of when, not if, that things are going to become seriously toxic at the club.

[xceleryx]

3 minutes ago, Morgs said:

With all this in mind, and you are spot on right Mark old son, I'd like to reinforce what you are saying by noting:

We have spent 200m+ to:

 

Gallagher to Drinkwater-Hall. 

Maatsen AND Chillwell to Veiga

Petrovic to Jorgensen 

Silva AND Chalobah to Adarabioyo

Broja to Guiu

Sterling to Sancho

 

Of these you could perhaps argue Guiu was not a downgrade (thought not an upgrade) and Veiga may yet prove to be decent. 

But I make that eight downgrades.  Felix is an absolute nothing as a player and is an utterly meaningless signing. 

Neto is the only positive signing we've made and he doesnt get anywhere near offsetting the damage we have done to the squad this window. 

....and perhaps just as astonishing as us somehow managing not to actually sign a f**king striker is that Mudryk still plays for Chelsea. 

Failure. 

Massive, indefensible failure on a systemic level. We've not just weakened the squad substantially, we've fatally undermined the team's morale and the appeal of the club for new and existing players, undermined the academy, moved on most of what little experience we had in the squad and failed to address the two major, gaping holes in the side that fatally undermined us and cost Poch his job last season. 

Absolutely jaw dropping. 

I hope we do get a transfer ban, honestly. Jelly and ice cream round mine the day they announce that.  F**k off Chelsea. 

This goes back to something I said a few months ago about player quality not being the only marker a transfer or player should be judged upon, their individual characteristics and systematic fit are also important, if not more so in some cases.

The goal is to naturally combine both ample ability and the desired attribute for the role they'll have within a system, however sometimes it's not always easy to find. 

At times it can be more beneficial to have a better suited player opposed to a more talented one. 

Not saying this is the case here across the board, but I do think it's something that's frequently glossed over as if it's not a relevant part of the thought process when certain decisions get made. Heck, we've all spent our share of time over the years moaning about x player not suiting their role or system despite their general talent level being decent. 

[Morgs]

8 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

For those unimpressed a couple quick ones if I may.

1. Who would've been your alternative to Toney and Osimhen?
2. With interest in Sterling virtually non-existent because of his contract, would you've preferred us to have kept him while paying his full wages to sit in the stands up until January as a best case? 
3. Sancho is obviously a luxury for a position we had options in, most likely lead by Shield's who worked with him at City. For what looks like a future £25m fee next season, is it not a gamble worth taking for a player whose value was 3x that amount only a couple years ago? And one we'd likely still sell for more than we're going to end up paying United even if he doesn't pan out entirely.
4. Which available "world class" goalkeeper would've satisfied and been realistic? 
5. Similar applies in the CB department. And don't say Chalobah - he's been on the market for months, drawn little to no grand interest, and isn't close to being any sort of remedy.

1 - I don't have the scouting reports on my desk but I refuse to believe the club couldn't find ANYONE who isn't an upgrade on Guiu and Jackson up top. 

2 - I agree with you on Sterling, better to shift him even on half wages because having him moping round the place training with the U21s isn't helping us or him. The fact that he will win the Prem for Arsenal is something we will just have to live with. I guarantee he scores a hatful there and becomes a cult hero, wins them the league and we pay him to do it. Still better than having him sat around doing nothing, yes I agree. 

3 - Sancho brought it so we can move Mudryk on in Jan, on loan if necessary. It's the only way it makes sense. 

4 - Marmadashvilli would have been a massive upgrade. Kepa would have been an upgrade. Petrovic would have been an upgrade. Ramsdale would have been a huge upgrade. Several others spring to mind as well. 

5 - Uppamecano, Araujo, Valverde, Bastoni, Bremer, Tah, Todibo, Calafiori, de Ligt....

[Morgs]

5 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

I'm pleased you are seeing the light!

Anyone trying to justify this complete shit show level planning and execution of managing a football club simply has their head firmly buried in the sand.

The only reason this place is not in a complete meltdown right now is purely because 2-6 at Wolves is still fresh in peoples mind.

Even forgetting about the last few days of Toney/Osimhen. That suggests clearly that they were interested in signing a new big name No9 and at a considerable cost. The Osimhen situation was clear months ago, so why not go and float a massive bid under Newcastle nose for Isak. Not saying we could have got him or them to sell, but financially its going to be in the ball park of Osimhen deal.  He would probably cost £100m to buy, but would more likely be a closer fit with their wage structure.

They have had all summer to address a number of issues in/out. Yet they have failed miserably with how they have handled both incomings and outgoings.

It really is only a matter of when, not if, that things are going to become seriously toxic at the club.

Also means no matter what Maresca does, he is doomed.  The spiral continues. 

Can we just skip to the part where we get relegated and get on with our lives? 

[Thiago97]

13 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

For those unimpressed a couple quick ones if I may.

1. Who would've been your alternative to Toney and Osimhen?
2. With interest in Sterling virtually non-existent because of his contract, would you've preferred us to have kept him while paying his full wages to sit in the stands up until January as a best case? 
3. Sancho is obviously a luxury for a position we had options in, most likely lead by Shield's who worked with him at City. For what looks like a future £25m fee next season, is it not a gamble worth taking for a player whose value was 3x that amount only a couple years ago? And one we'd likely still sell for more than we're going to end up paying United even if he doesn't pan out entirely.
4. Which available "world class" goalkeeper would've satisfied and been realistic? 
5. Similar applies in the CB department. And don't say Chalobah - he's been on the market for months, drawn little to no grand interest, and isn't close to being any sort of remedy.

1 - Isak, would cost similar to Osimhen deal in total.

2- Interest was not non existent, we only made him available 2 weeks ago. You are aware he has left aren't you ?

3- The fact you are already talking about selling him for profit, despite him not kicking a ball yet, just proves you are hook, line and sinker with the bullshit way the club is being run.

4 - This one may well be a more difficult situation. I can't say i watch keepers often, but the Georgian lad at Valencia looks good. Whilst the Swiss lad at Dortmund has looked good for the last couple of years. These are just off the top of my head.

5 - I have already names a number of CB's previously who are better than we have. Signing players that are better than you have maybe an outdated concept for those who believe in the approach of our owners. However, it has been the cornerstone for progression and improvement in football for decades. If you improve the team, you improve results, you don't constantly need to refer to selling players for profit and get excited about how great things might be in 5 years time!

This is all complete common sense. 

[Thiago97]

5 minutes ago, Morgs said:

Also means no matter what Maresca does, he is doomed.  The spiral continues. 

Can we just skip to the part where we get relegated and get on with our lives? 

I can't have any serious respect for the guy anyway. I will certainly give the guy a fair crack of the whip and judge him on his coaching ability and results. He is still a puppet right now, but that will change. 

Absolutely no way he continues to be their stooge. Pressure mounts with bad results, bad results come and attention gets drawn to him, then you will see a different side to Maresca. 

[Blue Kratos]

Has Anthony Martial signed for anybody yet? 🤣🤣🤣

[Miguelito07]

Is the Broja on loan to Everton with an obligation to purchase at the end of season for £30m correct? Its in the Guardian as that

[xceleryx]

1 minute ago, Morgs said:

1 - I don't have the scouting reports on my desk but I refuse to believe the club couldn't find ANYONE who isn't an upgrade on Guiu and Jackson up top. 

2 - I agree with you on Sterling, better to shift him even on half wages because having him moping round the place training with the U21s isn't helping us or him. The fact that he will win the Prem for Arsenal is something we will just have to live with. I guarantee he scores a hatful there and becomes a cult hero, wins them the league and we pay him to do it. Still better than having him sat around doing nothing, yes I agree. 

3 - Sancho brought it so we can move Mudryk on in Jan, on loan if necessary. It's the only way it makes sense. 

4 - Marmadashvilli would have been a massive upgrade. Kepa would have been an upgrade. Petrovic would have been an upgrade. Ramsdale would have been a huge upgrade. Several others spring to mind as well. 

5 - Uppamecano, Araujo, Valverde, Bastoni, Bremer, Tah, Todibo, Calafiori, de Ligt....

Firstly, thanks for answering.

1. Problem isn't just finding a more talented striker, it's also finding one that has the qualities we're seeking from the role. Given the sort of strikers we've been linked with, it looks like we're wanting a more traditional #9 that has a presence, play with their back to goal, and is competent at both ground and aerial level.

2. Look, shit happens at the end of the day. After selling them Jorginho and Havertz in recent years, sending them Sterling for a season isn't going to concern me one way or another. He's a nearly 30 year old on wages that haven't justified his performances, a common complaint held here over the last two years with many wanting him sold. Not the best solution, but it's what we had to work with. 

3. We'll have to see on this one I suppose. Sancho fits the mould a bit more in terms of a versatile playmaker type of winger, as long as buys into things mentally then we could genuinely have picked up a pretty solid home grown player.

4. Most wanted Kepa out the door years ago, people would've moaned had he been our #1 this season. The rest are decent keepers but they're not really ball-playing types either. This is why Ramsdale was replaced at Arsenal, it's also not a strong point of Marmadashvilli, who is an excellent shot stopper however. The profile of keeper we're wanting is more specific and thus harder to locate. I'd just about bet had we signed a great shot stopper that was awfully limited at ground level we'd see complaints within 6 months.

5. Most of those are fairly unrealistic in fairness, or don't quite tick the boxes when it comes to our CB needs. I'd love Bastoni myself, but that's never going to happen either. Whoever arrives has to not only be a quality upgrade, but they also need to possess some important traits we'e lacking to truly elevate us. No point, for example, brining in another undersized or slow CB when we're needing a more imposing figure or quicker option.

[boratsbrother]

I'm another one who's had enough of these plonkers running our club. 

Problem is, even if the majority of fans vocally turn on then at games and it results in them looking to sell, who in their right mind would want to buy a club with the long-term problems we have?  Tons of largely unproven players stuck on long contracts. Probably in the middle of sanctions. A stadium which needs a huge amount of money to upgrade it. Probably no  CL football any time soon. Struggling for sponsors. It's the kind of mess building up which lead us to being sold to Bates for a quid.

 

 

 

[xceleryx]

11 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

1 - Isak, would cost similar to Osimhen deal in total.

2- Interest was not non existent, we only made him available 2 weeks ago. You are aware he has left aren't you ?

3- The fact you are already talking about selling him for profit, despite him not kicking a ball yet, just proves you are hook, line and sinker with the bullshit way the club is being run.

4 - This one may well be a more difficult situation. I can't say i watch keepers often, but the Georgian lad at Valencia looks good. Whilst the Swiss lad at Dortmund has looked good for the last couple of years. These are just off the top of my head.

5 - I have already names a number of CB's previously who are better than we have. Signing players that are better than you have maybe an outdated concept for those who believe in the approach of our owners. However, it has been the cornerstone for progression and improvement in football for decades. If you improve the team, you improve results, you don't constantly need to refer to selling players for profit and get excited about how great things might be in 5 years time!

This is all complete common sense. 

1. See what I said to @Morgs. Isak doesn't suit what we're seemingly chasing, even if he is a good player in isolation -albeit with his own injury concerns.

2. Two weeks is still enough time for such a reputable player to draw interest, the issue is that he's on £300k+ in wages and that narrows his pool of teams unless he gives up a huge wad of cash. Am aware he's gone, yes. People are still complaining however because we're also partially funding it. 

3. No, I'm not thinking of selling him. However, it's a part of how the game is looked at these days - rightly or wrongly. The price point we'd be buying him at is certainly lower than his true value. Similar to Sterling, it's wages that put teams off or rule them out completely.

4. Addressed this also with @Morgs. 

5. Better is subjective to a degree. Even if you compare a player from a metric standpoint it still gets argued differently. Again, not saying we shouldn't have signed a CB, it's one area I wanted addressed the most, but at the same time stand out candidates are few and far between while also offering the sort of skillset we're seeking from the position. It's not just about overall quality needing to be better, it's quality + the attributes to plug our needs and fit the system.

[My Blood Is Blue]

I always said I’d judge the window when it closes and now it has, it’s left me feeling pretty underwhelmed, which may be putting it lightly.

When the season was coming to an end, I suggested we needed to go and do a handful of things and they were;

1. Sign a top class GK, only if one was available, if not give Petrovic another season.

2. Sign a top quality and experienced CB, this was top priority, but always going to be difficult.

3. Sign an experienced PL CM that can help us manage games and be a leader on the pitch.

4. Sign a quality AM/Winger that can chip in with goals.

5. Sign either a top quality striker or sign an experienced PL striker that can help take the burden from Jackson and support him in his development.

6. Sell Sanchez and either replace him with option 1 above or a solid number 2.

7. Move a CB (in addition to Silva) on, so that we could do number 2 without having too many CBs in the squad. I suggested Badiashile but accepted it may be Chalobah.

8. Get rid of Broja.

9. Sell Sterling.

Obviously, I don’t run a football club and I’m not qualified to have any role at a football club, so my opinion means very little, however, that was my opinion on what needed to happen.

So if i‘m judging the window by what I felt needed to happen then clearly I'm not too impressed, they’re got a couple of AM/Wingers in Neto and Ssncho, which is good, Sterling has gone, kind of and they may have moved on a CB.

I can accept they don’t have the same approach as the one I would have taken, as long as they have a clear and obvious approach I can get behind. The trouble is I’m really not sure what the approach was this summer. It didn’t feel like we needed to sign loads of players again this summer, but they have.

I think they’ve improved the quality and depth in our AM/Wing positions, I actually think we’re really stacked there now, although probably 1 too many with Sancho, but I won’t complain too much about that.

That’s the positive I see. But that’s about it.

GK: I don’t really know, I feel we’ve got worse by bringing Sanchez back in and signing a young unknown back up. We could have just done nothing and saved the money.

Full backs: in my mind, this didn’t need touching, not yet anyway, although I do think this season was the last chance for Chilwell to try and prove he can stay fit, so I do understand signings a LB. A young promising LB is good, but I don’t think we needed to banish Chilwell from the squad to do it… feels odd.

CB: Tosin is a purchase purely to make money from in a year or two. He’s not an upgrade on anything we have. This is our weakest position, but equally I do struggle to see many if any options out there that would take us to the next level, that we could realistically have signed. So whilst I think we’re weak here, I’m not really convinced we could have done much to make us significantly better. I know others will disagree.

CM: we sold Gallagher and replaced him with KDH. It’s poor, I don’t like it and it makes me angry.

Striker: We replaced Broja with Guiu. I’ve not idea how to feel about that, but at least we’ve moved Broja on, for now. We really should have got someone else in, this position should have been a priority. They messed this one up bad and we’ll regret it.

We then also signed a bunch more youngsters and goalkeeper for the sheer hell of it.

So in summary, they didn’t go with the plan i’d have gone with, more fool them, and the plan they did go with is confusing to me and doesn’t feel like we’ve massively strengthened much at all. It feels like we’ve stayed still, but had to pay quite a bit to do it and rock the boat a lot as well.

[Thiago97]

5 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

1. See what I said to @Morgs. Isak doesn't suit what we're seemingly chasing, even if he is a good player in isolation -albeit with his own injury concerns.

2. Two weeks is still enough time for such a reputable player to draw interest, the issue is that he's on £300k+ in wages and that narrows his pool of teams unless he gives up a huge wad of cash. Am aware he's gone, yes. People are still complaining however because we're also partially funding it. 

3. No, I'm not thinking of selling him. However, it's a part of how the game is looked at these days - rightly or wrongly. The price point we'd be buying him at is certainly lower than his true value. Similar to Sterling, it's wages that put teams off or rule them out completely.

4. Addressed this also with @Morgs. 

5. Better is subjective to a degree. Even if you compare a player from a metric standpoint it still gets argued differently. Again, not saying we shouldn't have signed a CB, it's one area I wanted addressed the most, but at the same time stand out candidates are few and far between while also offering the sort of skillset we're seeking from the position. It's not just about overall quality needing to be better, it's quality + the attributes to plug our needs and fit the system.

How can Isak not suit? He has very few weaknesses and if he does suit, then what do we want because Toney and Osimhen are quite different players?

Anyway, I can't get distracted by these debates. I need to keep the wife happy and get in a stupidly long queue to try and get tickets for an overrated band with one great album to their name (their debut).

 

[Miguelito07]

6 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Anyway, I can't get distracted by these debates. I need to keep the wife happy and get in a stupidly long queue to try and get tickets for an overrated band with one great album to their name (their debut).

 

Two albums, at a push.... 😉 but good luck with the queues. 

Edited August 31 by Miguelito07

[Morgs]

Im absolutely desperate to get Oasis tickets. 

Bollocks to Chelsea. 

[mora]

58 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

For those unimpressed a couple quick ones if I may.

1. Who would've been your alternative to Toney and Osimhen?
2. With interest in Sterling virtually non-existent because of his contract, would you've preferred us to have kept him while paying his full wages to sit in the stands up until January as a best case? 
3. Sancho is obviously a luxury for a position we had options in, most likely lead by Shield's who worked with him at City. For what looks like a future £25m fee next season, is it not a gamble worth taking for a player whose value was 3x that amount only a couple years ago? And one we'd likely still sell for more than we're going to end up paying United even if he doesn't pan out entirely.
4. Which available "world class" goalkeeper would've satisfied and been realistic? 
5. Similar applies in the CB department. And don't say Chalobah - he's been on the market for months, drawn little to no grand interest, and isn't close to being any sort of remedy.

I had a feeling Sterling would give in after the transfer window closed, especially with the prospect of being left in the ‘bomb squad.’ I thought he might take an offer from the Saudis as their transfer window remains open… But paying him to go to Arse…oh boy.

[Bob Singleton]

4 minutes ago, Morgs said:

Im absolutely desperate to get Oasis tickets. 

Bollocks to Chelsea. 

Oasis... everything that is wrong with music.

I agree 100% with what this guy has to say about them.  Word of warning... the C word is used a lot.
 

 

[ChelseaJambo]

All I can think is we're roughly netting out the same for Sancho instead of Sterling in wages.

I prefer Raheem but Sancho has a better potential sell on value I think which will appeal to the club.

It's all I can come up with.

[Leo]

Spreadsheets fc

[thevelourfog]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

For those unimpressed a couple quick ones if I may.

1. Who would've been your alternative to Toney and Osimhen?
2. With interest in Sterling virtually non-existent because of his contract, would you've preferred us to have kept him while paying his full wages to sit in the stands up until January as a best case? 
3. Sancho is obviously a luxury for a position we had options in, most likely lead by Shield's who worked with him at City. For what looks like a future £25m fee next season, is it not a gamble worth taking for a player whose value was 3x that amount only a couple years ago? And one we'd likely still sell for more than we're going to end up paying United even if he doesn't pan out entirely.
4. Which available "world class" goalkeeper would've satisfied and been realistic? 
5. Similar applies in the CB department. And don't say Chalobah - he's been on the market for months, drawn little to no grand interest, and isn't close to being any sort of remedy.

Nonsense questions bordering on whatabouttery. None of us are paid hundreds of thousands of pounds a year to have the expertise, contacts, knowledge and skills to address these, and no reasonable position is predicated on supporters being able to do that.

The idea we're poised to make a profit on Sancho is laughable. He needs to somehow play well enough for someone to want to buy him, but simultaneously not play so well that he can demand to have a huge wage sustained. It's about 4 years since he was especially impressive, and the pattern is crystal clear thanks to last year's loan; he can do it in the Bundesliga, but not here.

[boratsbrother]

28 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

Oasis... everything that is wrong with music.

I agree 100% with what this guy has to say about them.  Word of warning... the C word is used a lot.
 

 

Never heard of Kulkarni before and don't want to hear him ever again.

What a deeply snide, arrogant, nasty piece of work he is. Wishing I'll on fans just for liking a pop group he hates says it all about the so called 'progressives' and their absolute contempt and hate for those who don't bend the knee to their extreme, narrow minded view of the world.I He wouldn't dare say the same about negatives in the rap and hip hop genre. The homophobia. The gross sexuaization of women. Racism. Cop hating. Violence etc. Rock stars getting coked up pails next to that!

It's people like  Kulkami who are the intolerant bigots, not  the likes of the Gallagher's and their fans. Both brothers actually have a sense of humour about themselves, the world and life in general. Pity those who are so up themselves can't open their eyes and see their harmless  banter for what it is.

Edited August 31 by boratsbrother