Sleeping Dave Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 26 minutes ago, Bison said: Kante is the only one that saddens me but with his injuries I can accept it's time to move on. How the fuck can anyone scream foul for us to get a combined fee of £42m for Ziyech, Koulibaly and Mendy??? Someone like Ruben Neves alone goes for £55m… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 3 hours ago, chara said: No noise from, or about, Chilly James Silva Kepa for example but Jorge leaving so quickly and various others chomping at the bit to get away or so it appears all seems somewhat out of kilter to this admittedly OG. There is a good possibility that those 4 chaps are the only players in the the squad earning, £250k per week and with the clubs leadership continually talking about sustainability. could they be the next on the departures list? especially if james/Chilwell have a season of continual niggling injuries. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chara Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 13 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said: No serious person would evaluate and reward a player that’s 24 years old and who’s carried this club for 24 months prior to a dip in form, solely on the period where he’s not performed up to scratch with his own high standards. We’ve played him into the ground. He was bound to have a reaction. He’s out PotY both in 2021 and 2022. Look at the names of the other players who has managed to win two PotY here. Then remember that he did it in four seasons… If the current ownership doesn’t rate him they are the ones who should leave. I don't get the impression that Chelsea do not rate Mount or want him to move on...all the emphasis has been ,as far as I can see, on him not wanting or accepting any club offers ...the question of course is why not...maybe the recent stalking case has some bearing on things ? The whole affair just doesn't quite add up but the Club valuation is about right so why accept less...as a favour?...that only works/is acceptable for a long term great servant of the club as a thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 24 minutes ago, chara said: I don't get the impression that Chelsea do not rate Mount or want him to move on...all the emphasis has been ,as far as I can see, on him not wanting or accepting any club offers ...the question of course is why not...maybe the recent stalking case has some bearing on things ? The whole affair just doesn't quite add up but the Club valuation is about right so why accept less...as a favour?...that only works/is acceptable for a long term great servant of the club as a thank you. Imagine you're Mason Mount and you see the ridicule he gets in the press because he's at Chelsea and only plays because he's "Lampards son" and then look at the hype thrown around where Phil Foden or Jack Grealish are mentioned . He probably wants a bit more respect as well as a bit more money . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chara Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said: Imagine you're Mason Mount and you see the ridicule he gets in the press because he's at Chelsea and only plays because he's "Lampards son" and then look at the hype thrown around where Phil Foden or Jack Grealish are mentioned . He probably wants a bit more respect as well as a bit more money . Good points MK but will that change at Manure? Although I suspect the Red Shirt factor will kick in at some point. Probably next season you can add Lewis to the Foden JG media glory roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thevelourfog Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 2 hours ago, thevelourfog said: I'd personally tell United to get f**ked. If you want him, pay for him. It's what we have to do every time. How much, in the long term, is not being perceived as a soft touch going to save us? What does it tell Mount, and any other wantaway player, about how much prospective buyers really value them if they don't cough up? Not quite "get f**ked" but near enough. Can't have Utd get away with briefing they'll walk away unless we do as they want. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Bison said: Have we considered the possibility that the people brought in to manage the football operation simply do not rate Mount as much as the fans do? He’s been injured for the past 6 month which is the length of time the TBSD has been operating, therefore can really see how they can assess him, when you also take into account their paymaster hired a nobody coach who took a top team and destroyed it heart and soul of a squad within 6 months. Maybe the best for all parties is for him to see out his contract and let him move for nothing, One thing is for sure ManUre will not be the only top club looking for his services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said: No serious person would evaluate and reward a player that’s 24 years old and who’s carried this club for 24 months prior to a dip in form, solely on the period where he’s not performed up to scratch with his own high standards. We’ve played him into the ground. He was bound to have a reaction. He’s out PotY both in 2021 and 2022. Look at the names of the other players who has managed to win two PotY here. Then remember that he did it in four seasons… If the current ownership doesn’t rate him they are the ones who should leave. Chelsea POTY is a fan award if I'm not mistaken. An online poll at that. People mention this double POTY award like he won the balon d'Or. Kante in the Champions League win season played at a level Mount will never reach and there was no award for him. All the current ownership have experienced with Mount so far is injuries, bad form and inflated wage demands. Good for them for not caving in because Mount won an online poll two years ago. Edited June 23, 2023 by Bison 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 8 hours ago, Holymoly said: Is it my imagination but there doesn't seem anything going on with Pulisic? And three months ago he would have been the one most would have nailed on to be superfluous. He's been linked to AC Milan recently with their American owners fully intent on sending them back to their banter era. I don't think we'll have issues selling him, but he's also not really a priority signing for most clubs either, nor a priority sale for us right now with other matters being attended towards first. Fully expect him to leave (I hope). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev61 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, Bison said: All the current ownership have experienced with Mount so far is injuries, bad form and inflated wage demands. Good for them for not caving in because Mount want an online poll two years ago. It might be what the "current ownership " experienced but you have to go further back to get the true story about Mount. He won poty twice because he was.He was never rewarded in monetary terms - in fact he watched inferior players getting paid a fortune whilst showing little effort. Imo Mount was only asking for parity financially and esteem. Don't blame Mount,blame the people who bought Lukaku and handed out super contracts to mediocre players who thanks to the Saudis we are starting to clear the decks. Mount will turn out to be another massive mistake by the powers that be,but I think it has went too far now and probably best for both sides that he moves on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Just now, kev61 said: It might be what the "current ownership " experienced but you have to go further back to get the true story about Mount. He won poty twice because he was.He was never rewarded in monetary terms - in fact he watched inferior players getting paid a fortune whilst showing little effort. Imo Mount was only asking for parity financially and esteem. Don't blame Mount,blame the people who bought Lukaku and handed out super contracts to mediocre players who thanks to the Saudis we are starting to clear the decks. Mount will turn out to be another massive mistake by the powers that be,but I think it has went too far now and probably best for both sides that he moves on. The club tried to reward him after Porto but he rejected the contract according to reports. He is only underpaid now because he has rejected improved terms. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said: No serious person would evaluate and reward a player that’s 24 years old and who’s carried this club for 24 months prior to a dip in form, solely on the period where he’s not performed up to scratch with his own high standards. We’ve played him into the ground. He was bound to have a reaction. He’s out PotY both in 2021 and 2022. Look at the names of the other players who has managed to win two PotY here. Then remember that he did it in four seasons… If the current ownership doesn’t rate him they are the ones who should leave. This is the fine line of football. Present day form accounts for a lot, irrespective of past achievements. You can't always use a players prior history as a means of justification or a basis to make decisions upon. Sometimes that needs to be ignored and instead focus put on where a player fits moving forward, or if they'll improve beyond the point of where they are now. Mount's form over the last 18 months has been underwhelming, however as you've said, and I've expressed this also, he's played a lot of football since debuting for us and that'll likely have caught up and impacted what he's been able to do on the pitch. A good rest, which is what he's gotten now, could be the catalyst for a return to form. On the flip side, maybe it doesn't change anything and Mount's simply hit his ceiling. It'a also difficult to compare players POTY accolades, as they really aren't all the same as each other. Mount's collected his two for example in arguably some of the weakest Chelsea squads seen in the last 15-20 years. The likes of Lampard, Mata, Hazard got their multiple POTY awards in much stronger sides. Not dismissing Mount's achievements, he can only win it in the sides that he's in. Just tough to compare winning it across different generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev61 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, Bison said: according to reports. Well. Three words that mean nothing really. I think you have to ask why he wants away?.Imo if he was offered the contract he deserved in the first place he would have stayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, kev61 said: Well. Three words that mean nothing really. I think you have to ask why he wants away?.Imo if he was offered the contract he deserved in the first place he would have stayed. The whole Mount discussion is based on reports and speculation, much like most things in football until a deal is actually official. No one really knows why he wants away, that's the underlying problem here because there's literally been no clarity. Even if there was, we'd likely see Mount's PR team come out and try to portray him in better light, while the club will do likewise for themselves - as we've already seen. £180k pw was the reported wages offered after the Champions League, a £100k pw increase on what he was and still is earning now. A fair deal IMO. What would you consider reasonable for Mount, Kev? Out of curiosity. Don't just factor in what he's achieved so far, but also what his ceiling is as a player moving forward, where he fits in our best eleven (if he makes it), etc. These are all factors that go into contracts. Edited June 23, 2023 by xceleryx spelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Tucker Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, xceleryx said: No one really knows why he wants away, that's the underlying problem here because there's literally been no clarity. He wants more money, and he wants to win things. I don't think that it's anymore complicated than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev61 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 3 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said: He’s out PotY both in 2021 and 2022. Look at the names of the other players who has managed to win two PotY here. Then remember that he did it in four seasons… If the current ownership doesn’t rate him they are the ones who should leave. We also got rid of a player twice POTY and in his prime by a manager who was losing his marbles...answers on a postcard😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 hour ago, xceleryx said: Mount's collected his two for example in arguably some of the weakest Chelsea squads seen in the last 15-20 years. Comedy Hour. And people on here call me a WUM 8 cup finals, and CL qualification, a transfer ban, sanctions in 3 seasons between post Sarri and pre- Clearlake. That really is a crap side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev61 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 51 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said: He wants more money, and he wants to win things. I don't think that it's anymore complicated than that. Too simple Michael.It's the stalker,it's his dad,and he loves northern soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev61 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 5 minutes ago, ROTG said: Comedy Hour. And people on here call me a WUM 8 cup finals, and CL qualification, a transfer ban, sanctions in 3 seasons between post Sarri and pre- Clearlake. That really is a crap side. Indeed.I have no problem with different opinions but I call it the 'grey horse syndrome'. I had a mate who told me to back a grey horse in a race that was won by a grey horse three times in a row. I said that is ridiculous it has no relevance to the outcome of any future race. He said you don't understand statistics😥 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev61 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Bison said: The club tried to reward him after Porto but he rejected the contract according to reports. He is only underpaid now because he has rejected improved terms. Fair enough,but then you have to ask why he rejected improved terms?. Going round in circles here best to leave it me thinks.I'm like a dog with a bone, but I need answers!!!🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 59 minutes ago, ROTG said: Comedy Hour. And people on here call me a WUM 8 cup finals, and CL qualification, a transfer ban, sanctions in 3 seasons between post Sarri and pre- Clearlake. That really is a crap side. Ahh yes, taking what was said out of context and then twisting it into a completely different narrative - the ROTG special. Relative to the prior sides we had in the past, such as with our "golden generation", the Chelsea sides Mount has played in have been vastly weaker when you go through player by player from those sides. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 24 minutes ago, xceleryx said: Ahh yes, taking what was said out of context and then twisting it into a completely different narrative - the ROTG special. Relative to the prior sides we had in the past, such as with our "golden generation", the Chelsea sides Mount has played in have been vastly weaker when you go through player by player from those sides. Not sure about another narrative, if you measure achievements of the golden generation “assumes 2004 upto and including the 2012 CL win” vs post golden generation their achievements are quite similar with the exception of European success came earlier to the non golden generation. Time to move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 minute ago, ROTG said: Not sure about another narrative, if you measure achievements of the golden generation “assumes 2004 upto and including the 2012 CL win” vs post golden generation their achievements are quite similar with the exception of European success came earlier to the non golden generation. Time to move on You're the one who brought achievements into the equation, this was never the yard stick being used as the comparison. Either way, it's whatever. Shall leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 8 minutes ago, xceleryx said: You're the one who brought achievements into the equation, this was never the yard stick being used as the comparison. Either way, it's whatever. Shall leave it at that. Sorry to reply again, However Achievement is the only way to measure things, nobody remembers runner ups or below enough said let move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev61 Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 16 hours ago, martin1905 said: Which is undeniable. The big difference will be though that we have a completely different team with a new manager. I'm with @Chelsea_Matt on this one. We have plenty of goals in our team, under the right guidance and structure. No doubt we need a proper striker but I would be amazed if we don't get one. Sterling, Nkunku, Madueke and Mudryk will all score and create goals. We need at least one more though, maybe we keep Pulisic, personally I doubt it and have been told that it is a position we are looking at very closely with a very big transfer lined up. Once all our outgoings are sorted we will have money to burn, which is ridiculous when we have spent £600m in a year but the way FFP works means we will. For all the talk of our clueless owners this is one side of the business that the TBSD have absolutely nailed. Signing the hottest, brightest young talent from all over the world on FFP friendly contracts to try to build the best team in Europe in two or three years time. It's never been done before and is so refreshing and ridiculously exciting to be a part of. It's why, despite my early reservations about Pochettino, I wanted was anyone BUT him to replace Tuchel, he is actually the perfect manager for this project. There's a good argument that he more suited to it that Pep even. I haven't played video games in years but it reminds me of when we first had loads of money on Football manager. I'd sell everyone over 30, doesn't matter who they were and anyone else that I could get decent money for that wouldn't start games and then buy the best young players around. It's like I'm living one of my football manager saves, in real life and I can't find anything not to like about it. The alternative was years of nothingness, we had massively stagnated as a football club with no leadership or direction. The TBSD have at least given us that, even if not everyone agrees with this strategy. everything is speculation and we've been there before. The difference is we have a proven premier league manager now. I think we have almost a blank canvas for Poch to work with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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