Transfer Talk Topic

[exiledblue]

55m plus 5m in add ons for a 24 year old England international, sounds a price too good to be true. Where  can we get one of them?

Oh we sell them.

Utd want 80m for washed up Maguire... work that out!

[Miguelito07]

3 minutes ago, exiledblue said:

Utd want 80m for washed up Maguire... work that out!

Utd may want £80m for Maguire but there  is absolutely no team going to pay that  -and I doubt any team would even pay half

[Thiago97]

7 minutes ago, exiledblue said:

55m plus 5m in add ons for a 24 year old England international, sounds a price too good to be true. Where  can we get one of them?

Oh we sell them.

Utd want 80m for washed up Maguire... work that out!

When have Utd quoted that for Maguire!? They haven’t and would bite your hand off for £30million I suspect. 
Given the contractual situation, I would say we have got pretty much the going rate. The add ons are likely to be easily achievable and a given, so £60million is about right. We have signed a French international who was not in his last year to replace him for a similar amount of money. 

[Original 21]

Really don’t know what to believe. Either we only offered him a one year extension and forced him out. Or we made several offers which he rejected. 
 

“Mount is on around £75,000 a week and Chelsea made several offers to him, the highest worth around £200,000 a week.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jun/29/mason-mount-set-to-join-manchester-united-from-chelsea-for-60m

 

[Gurj SS]

I saw today Real Madrid are open to Valverde moving on, I think it'll be criminal if we let him go elsewhere; of all the Caicedos, Rices, Laivas, Enzos, Gallaghers out there; he walks the floor with all of them.

[bertles86]

2003-4 we went into the season with this and scored 67 goals in the league...

Jimmy

Eidur 

Crespo 

Forssell

Mutu

 

At the moment we heading into pre season with...

Auba

Broja

Fofana2

Lukaku 

Jackson?

 

That is slightly scary. Poch I hope is a miracle worker.

[chara]

2 hours ago, RDCW said:

Wind yer neck in Chara, you old fart 😅! We have to put up with your meanderings, so you have to put up with our pointless dissection of Kepa's inadequacies. And another thing............

Ahh...The wisdom of the Valleys....probably right Mr Williams....anything said is acceptable with a smile!!

[JaneB]

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

We had a bloated squad last season, and now we sell a few, we are panicking?

Conceded less than a goal a game. Completely fine. What wasn't fine was the goals scored 

Sure. I guess that's why James signed a new contract on such paltry wages 

I was being slightly tongue in cheek Paul.  And maybe the real concern is quality not quantity.

[chara]

1 hour ago, RDCW said:

We are old farty friends, Jane! 🤣

And with a smile as ever 😁...But Thanks Jane...although now I do feel OG !....youngsters helping me across the road (forum)...sigh...but as ever your heart in the right place.

[Thiago97]

8 minutes ago, bertles86 said:

2003-4 we went into the season with this and scored 67 goals in the league...

Jimmy

Eidur 

Crespo 

Forssell

Mutu

 

At the moment we heading into pre season with...

Auba

Broja

Fofana2

Lukaku 

Jackson?

 

That is slightly scary. Poch I hope is a miracle worker.

Whilst I get the point you are making. I don’t think last seasons lack of goals was down to poor strikers. I believe it was down to poor coaching and lack of a structure within the team. I think any of the strikers you named from 2003-04 would have also struggled in that shambolic mess we had to endure last season. Whilst it’s clear we do need new forward/forwards. The players we had last season are capable of scoring more goals, under a manager capable of coaching……that’s not to say the players we have in this area are the answer! 

[Morgs]

Some thoughts while I wait for my conference call to finish. 

My view on it is that there is an all-pervading need, or rather recognition of a need, to move on from the Abramovich years and for the club (and by extension the players, staff, management and I think even the fans in some ways) to keep this in mind directly and overtly in everything they do.

An example of this was the length of time they waited to fire a hopelessly out-of-his-depth Graham Potter. There was a real sense, to me at least, that they wanted to distance themselves from Roman but also from the way he did business. For better or worse.

There are a lot of examples of things that either didn’t need changing or should at least not been a priority to change, being swept out like old leaves.

Boehly and Egbahli want the club to be different and to have a new identity. I believe the thinking behind bringing in Potter was that he was a good coach and that’s all he was. He would handle the day to day team stuff and let the owners do what they wanted to in and around the team and so on, in a way Tuchel would and perhaps did, find difficult to accept.  In Potter you see the difference between a football coach and a modern football manager. The latter – of which our own Jose Mourinho is a superb example - is a commercially aware PR mouthpiece, a savvy businessman, a leader, someone who shapes the club identity and who leads a large and highly capable independent coaching staff for the team. In Potter’s case he was almost none of these things because Boehly and Egbali wanted to either do these things themselves or bring in specialized talent to do exactly that.

I think part of the problem for Potter was that the fans expected a Jose and that’s not who he is. He was never going to be the urbane centre of attention; the star quality sophisticat on MOTD that knew when to praise his team and when to divert attention from it. He was never going to a tactical genius whose way of setting up for games would be latterly studied in coaching courses in the way someone like Jose was. Potter is a coach. That’s it. So when people say the Chelsea job was too big for him, they are right in lots of ways.

The thing with Poch is that he is much more a Mourinho than a Potter when it comes to everything but coaching. That sort of leadership, even if he is much less charismatic and likeable than Mourinho, is what the club needed and why Potter was a mistake. I have a feeling the club felt that bringing in a Sporting Director would solve the issue but this dragged on and on and Potter was left standing rather uncomfortably in the limelight with the media expecting him to say something cool or controversial when – as we know – that isn’t him.

So here we are the clearout of the squad and I think there is a degree of the club wanting a top to bottom reshape. I think this underpinned the supermarket sweep mania of the last two transfer windows and is why the squad ended up so bloated. Trimming out the old guard, the old blood etc was always going to take time and it has. It is just symptomatic of a poorly advised transfer policy that pre-dates Vivell coming in that the clearout has also included some new old blood too – Koulibaly for one, likely to be joined by Aubameyang and possibly Cucurella. They made a few mistakes in their headlong rush to clear out the team for sure.

Pochettino is someone who loves to press and dictate the tempo of games, he’s quite able to change tactics mid game and his teams are super fit and very well-drilled. It is fair to say that the Chelsea teams of recent years have not been like this.

I do wonder if the reason the club aren’t bringing in a new ‘keeper is because they want Poch to take a good look at Gaga Slonina first. We are all expecting him to go out on loan but if we don’t bring in a new number one, he may well get the chance to fight it out with Kepa for the jersey. Him being American probably doesn’t hurt his chances either. Personally I’d like a top keeper of the Donnarumma sort of level to come in but that is probably not realistic as we cannot offer European football and cannot tempt names like that unless with pots of gold which again, is not something Boehly wants to keep doing I don’t think.

Elsewhere I think we look pretty good.

Chillwell and James on their day are as good as anyone you’ll find at wingback and in Gusto and Maatsen have genuine competition, and more importantly, genuine cover. A back three from Silva, Fofana, Badiashile (who I still think is the best signing we have made for years) Colwill and Chalobah is very strong and I don’t think we have much to worry about there.

Enzo is the top man in the middle and if – as expected – the club  manage to bring in Caicedo to sit in front of the defence to anchor him, he will grow and progress. For all the slating Boehly got for who and how much he spent bringing in, Enzo and Badiashile are genuine success stories. We haven’t had many of those in the latter years of the Abramovich tenure. With Mount going I think we will need to replace him, but Gallagher and Chukwuemeka both add depth there and the young Brazilian lad Santos is supposed to be mustard and is extremely highly regarded.

Two wingers from Nkunku, Sterling, Mudryk and Noni is okay and I think the club is well-stocked in that department.

Jackson and Broja up top looks a little thin and I hope and believe the club will move Lukaku on and spend some money on someone who can influence games from up top. It’s a little more nuanced I think than just saying we need someone who can stick the ball in the onion bag.  We need someone who can hold the ball up, someone much more physical who can create space and bully centrebacks, someone good in the air but who has the pace and clever movement to really worry defenders. It is very telling that we haven’t had a decent striker since Costa and Drogba before him – both are exactly this kind of player. They were great because they gave you an option. Where it wasn’t possible to do the cute little through balls into feet and open up space to run into, we needed an aggressive plan B. Drogba and Costa offered you both. Broja if he gets back from his awful ACL gives you that too.

Having teams put ten men behind the ball and deny all the space in front and behind with a very aggressive, highly physical press every week makes things super difficult for swifty, slight wingers the club has preferred to buy and play for the last ten years or so. They don’t work with no room to run into. Its not rocket science. Examples: Werner – a very good player who was genuinely world class at one point but what use is blistering pace when you have no room to run into? Ziyech should have been a better option as he is better suited to operating in tight confines but he didn’t fancy it and wasn’t fond of the systematic kicking he got every week from players who know the officials won’t sanction them. Pulisic didn’t work out for the same reason. CHO is a great example of a player who SHOULD have been good/great for us but had no room to use his pace and was terrified of trying to beat his man because Tuchel understood what happens when we lose the ball high up the pitch and screams at him, tearing him to pieces from the touchline when he loses possession. You could see Callum visibly wilt under the tirade. Every game. You have players who can beat their man but don’t because they are afraid of taking them on in case they lose the ball. That doesn’t help.

You also have Refs who quite simply will not give Chelsea the same decisions that Liverpool, Arsenal and Yernited get when they are being fouled off the park. We are not afforded anything like the same protection. That isn’t partisan bias, that is just bitter fact, as Raheem Sterling found out to his cost last season.

So you have your attacking players all afraid to beat their man, all hemmed in by a lack of space, all getting monstered by physically larger opposition kicking the **** out of them and doing it all in an unforgiving league where you have to take your chances or you will be punished severely. Is it any wonder the confidence evaporates to nothing? The clever little flicks start to lack conviction and the dribbles look a bit futile. We cannot find a way past the massed ranks of ten in their own half.  We do not even bother taking long distance shots any more because of a lack of confidence and because they risk losing the ball when it inevitably gets blocked. Sound familiar?

Then the crowd get frustrated and start barracking them which doesn’t help and you have a striker you can’t support because there isn’t room to pass him the ball! So your wingers and attacking midfielders – bereft of confidence and all in mysteriously dreadful form all mysteriously at the same time – all look like a waste of money. Sounding familiar yet?

The Chelsea striker curse rumbles on because they either don’t get a touch in the game waiting for a through ball that is never coming ala Lukaku, or drop deep to try to collect it themselves ala Havertz and Aubameyang and arguably Torres before them. So you need a striker who can get on the end of the cute flicks and nifty diagonal balls into feet when he does have space, but also scrap it out and create space and get in defenders’ faces when there isn’t any.

What we need is a Costa.

Ive said all along that Vlahovic would be ideal for us as he’s a big aggressive lump who can hold the ball up and score goals. Failing that, Mitrovic. Would only play twenty five games a season for us but I’d fancy him to get a bagful.

I agree it sounds odd to spend the first half of this diatribe stating that the club wants to do things new, wants a new approach and a new style and then to spend the second half espousing at verbose length why we need a striker just like some former players of ours but honestly I think the way the Premier League is now, there is only one solution and that’s to get nasty and start taking names up top.  

It always makes me a bit angry – an understatement in fact – to see every single home game we play and most of our aways, the astonishment and shock registered on the faces of the players and coaching staff when the latest bang average Championship level team of cloggers set up to stick ten men behind the ball and kick us off the park. It happens every week – why should it be a shock? It is more shocking I would contend, that we never really figured out how to counter it. Under Potter and Lampard it got so bad that we became an easy game for anyone.

Teams looked forward to playing us.

They loved the fact that for once in the Prem, effort and physicality alone would get you the points. Poor teams go down from the Prem because that usually isn’t enough. But against us it is. Run more than us, want it more than us, press more than us and deny us the space and more times than not, you’d come away with the points. Teams still see us as a big scalp. Points against us are healing, confidence building things that can arrest slides and built momentum (unless you are Southampton). We saw it week in week out. The amount of games we have 65%-70%+ of the possession but create nothing and lose 0-1 or 0-2 are unreal. Its because we are press susceptible.

Poch, if he is to last past Easter, needs to figure out a style of playing that makes us more press resistant.

One way of doing that is to transition faster. Another is to pass the ball quicker. Tippy tappy doesn’t work in the Prem. Having 65-70% possession and passing the ball sideways all game doesn’t work. We know this. Its okay having pace but we need physicality and we need toughness. Teams kick Chelsea off the park because we lack toughness. That is something Poch needs to remedy and why we need a Costa type player up top.

Think speed, power and aggression rather than technical ability if that makes sense.

Bob above mentioned how he sees the squad shaping up and I think he’s not far off as I mentioned earlier.

How about this for a 28 man squad?

 

KEEPERS

Kepa

Maignan

Bettinelli

(Slonina and Baxter go on loan).

 

RIGHT BACK

James

Gusto

(Azpilicueta is released, Hutchison goes on loan)

 

CENTREHALF

Silva

W Fofana

Colwill

Badiashile

Humphries

(Ampadu is sold)

 

LEFT BACK

Chillwell

Maatsen

(Cucurella is sold)

 

UTILITY PLAYERS

Hall

Chalobah

 

MIDFIELD

Enzo

Caicedo

Santos

Chukwuemeka

Gallagher

Veiga

(Mount goes, Casadei goes on loan)

 

WINGERS

Mudryk

Noni

Sterling

Nkunku

Moreira

(CHO is sold, Vale and Richards go on loan)

 

STRIKERS

Jackson

Vlahovic

Broja

 

Any takers? 

[Morgs]

29 minutes ago, Gurj SS said:

I saw today Real Madrid are open to Valverde moving on, I think it'll be criminal if we let him go elsewhere; of all the Caicedos, Rices, Laivas, Enzos, Gallaghers out there; he walks the floor with all of them.

Agree 100%. Superb player. Would be ideal for us.

[JaneB]

19 minutes ago, chara said:

And with a smile as ever 😁...But Thanks Jane...although now I do feel OG !....youngsters helping me across the road (forum)...sigh...but as ever your heart in the right place.

Stop calling yourself an OG.  You are listed on here as 'Under 21' or hadn't you noticed...............?

[JaneB]

@Morgs

Thanks for that fantastic post which I will read properly and digest later.

[chara]

1 minute ago, JaneB said:

Stop calling yourself an OG.  You are listed on here as 'Under 21' or hadn't you noticed...............?

Yeah...wondered about that....one of the traumatic moments of my football life was when I realised I would never get an "Under 23 "cap (as was then)😁

Mind you, Mrs C is of the opinion that "Under 21" for me is overstating my "maturity"..sigh.

[JaneB]

4 minutes ago, chara said:

Yeah...wondered about that....one of the traumatic moments of my football life was when I realised I would never get an "Under 23 "cap (as was then)😁

Mind you, Mrs C is of the opinion that "Under 21" for me is overstating my "maturity"..sigh.

All queries to @My Blood Is Blue 😉

[Holymoly]

So. He's gone. After all the rumours and counter rumours. Mason Mount has upped sticks and buggered off north.

All in all a pretty good fee for a utility player, that is beginning to find it hard to hold down a starting spot in the national team, with one year left on his contract and prepared to play that year out and leave on a free. I am dumping him in the same pot as Juan Mata. A player whose sale to Manure had certain supporters jumping up and down with indignation but in the end flattered to deceive and ended up becoming a squad player.

Thanks for the memories Mase but when you find yourself in rickety OT with the rain coming in the roof of the changing room think of us back in the sunny south east planning a shiney new stadium.

That's FFP sorted now then, onward and upward. Dump Lukaku and Aubameyang on some poor unsuspecting foreign club then we should be close to being ready for the pre-season tour. Maurice Cappucino starts work on Saturday so we should hear about his master plan over the weekend hopefully.

Mason who?

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Sure. I guess that's why James signed a new contract on such paltry wages 

I think you will find that was when TT was at the club and TB was responsible for contacts and the club had just signed players like PEA, KK, Sterling on £350k per week. 

All changed in Jan when the TBSD  took over contracts and recruitment. 

Is it coincidence most of the players moved this window were earning in excess of £200k. Per week. 

Edited June 29, 2023 by ROTG

[chara]

1 minute ago, ROTG said:

I think you will find that was when TT was at the club and TB was responsible for contacts and the club had just signed players like PEA, KK, Sterling on £350k per week. 

All changed in Jan when the TBSD  to over contracts and recruitment. 

Is it coincidence most of the players moved this window were the earning in excess of £200k. Per week. 

Just a question!

[ROTG]

10 minutes ago, chara said:

Just a question!

Damm

i need to go to specsavers 

[BMox81]

Just some food for thought…

[Rob B]

7 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

Potential squad based on likely current ins & outs:

Kepa,  New GK,  Bettinelli

James,  Gusto,  Chilwell,  Cucurella

W Fofana,  Chalobah,  Badiashile,  Colwill,  Silva

Enzo,  Caicedo,  New CM (Veiga?),  Gallagher

Sterling,  Mudryck,  Nkunku,  Madueke

Jackson,  Broja


That still leaves 3 spaces in a 25 man squad (max allowed in PL)  Players under 21 don't have to be registered, so in theory as well as filing those 3 spaces with "senior" players, we can also include Gabriel Slonina, Lewis Hall, Andrey Santos, Cesare Casadei and Harvey Vale

Other squad additions from within our own ranks include Ian Maatsen, Carney Chukwuemeka and - dare I say it - Romelu Lukaku

Thanks Bob.

Looking at this in one view shows just how much work we have ahead of us (IMO)

As a collective position, defence is the only area of the pitch that you could look at and not think it needs serious work.  (I’d arguably include GK here as it’s only one decent signing and I sit firmly in the Kepa isn’t good enough camp) 

Assuming we even sign Caicedo, midfield is incredibly threadbare of quality after him and Enzo.   We’re talking about Gallagher in a holding DM / 6 position or a load of kids who have never played for us? 

It’s the same problem in AM too…. Sterling is proven to a degree, albeit off the back of an underwhelming season and the other three are unknown quantities at his level.  I think Nkunku could turn out to be a shrewd signing but not sure id hang my hat on any of them next season.

And the forwards is the most depressing of the lot.  Broja (off the back of a 9 month layoff) has only ever scored like 5 goals in the PL and probably needs a loan.  Jackson is young and untried having only ever scored 9 goals in  the French league.  Contrast that to the like of Spurs (Son, Kane, Richarlison, Maddison etc) or Liverpool (Salah, Nunez, Jota, Diaz, Gakpo) or Man City (Haaland, Mahrez, Foden, Alverez, Grealish, Silva)  ours is genuinely terrifying.

I can only hope that we are focusing on outgoings and then going big on a small number of top quality incomings - I’m talking  Osimhen, Toney, Kane, level forwards and then midfield / attackers like Valverde.  

😫

[JaneB]

I am livid that Mason and the club couldn’t sort things out but without knowing what really went on it’s difficult to have an informed opinion.

Such a transfer would have been unthinkable a year or two ago.  Mason has been at the club since he was 6 (?) and was going to be Chelsea’s next homegrown superstar and possible captain.  
 

Something has gone terribly wrong but it is what it is.  I guess if Poch had really wanted him he would stayed.

Of course I don’t wish him any ill but I really hope the grass isn’t greener at OT.

I feel very let down 🙁

[Original 21]

A naive question to those who understand these things. We’ve got this Mount deal done before 30 June presumably for FFP. Same with Havertz, Kovacic, Mendy, Koulibaly etc. That’s quite a pot of money. Does this mean that money is solely to cover the signings of Enzo, Mudryk, Fofana, Nkunku? Or is it money we can carry over into the rest of the window for buying Caicedo and others we’re planning to bring in such as another AM and centre forward? 

[Ham]

2 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

Doesn't seem there was anything in @martin1905's contact's story.

 

Martin's ITK in the mud 😉

2 hours ago, Lump Of Celery said:

Moving to United is a strange move for Mount. If we can get Maddison and Caiceido in for the fees received for Mason and Kai then we would arguably be in better shape in terms of players fitting formations. I know some aren't keen in Maddison but his numbers speak for themselves, and would probably accept some rotation. I know we have Nkunku but a PL experienced option available at a reasonable price would be great too.

Was about to point out the obvious but then others did. 

49 minutes ago, JaneB said:

Stop calling yourself an OG.  You are listed on here as 'Under 21' or hadn't you noticed...............?

I know the boys on here mean "Old Geezer" but as an ageing 90s hip hop fan, my mind always goes to "Original Gangster".