Transfer Talk Topic

[asvaberg]

52 minutes ago, Morgs said:

Its weird, I was having a pub talk with a mate of mine recently and the subject of "What is the best goal you've ever seen live" came up. 

For me, it was Di Matteo in 1998 against Arsenal at home in the Coca Cola Cup. He had a load of good goals but that and his FA Cup Final 42 second piledriver (which I wasnt looking in the right direction when he hit it and knew nothing about it until it went in, utter pandemonium,  was thrown five rows downwards, the definition of "limbs") were absolutely peak for me. Essien vs Arsenal and Barcelona were both wonderful strikes. Stanic on the opening day of the season (1999? 2000?), Lampard when we won 3-1 at Goodison,  Matic at Wembley and weirdly, Craig Burley at Oxford away in the cup in 94 stick in the mind as glorious strikes.  Oscar vs Juve was brilliant, as was Meireiles vs was it Porto or Benfica? 

What do these all (apart from the Oscar wunderstrike) have in common? 

Yep .

They were all long range strikes. 

As the great Nik Kershaw once sang; wouldn't it be good?  It feels like we almost never score goals from outside the box these days. 

I'd love it if we could get back to doing that. 

Alex? Some utterly immense long range goals

Here is a lot to like:

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by asvaberg

[paulw66]

55 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Do you believe Madueke is better than CHO?

Yes.

39 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Madueke came from the Championship level league for £34m. 

And? 

CHO has just failed miserably in a "championship level league"

33 minutes ago, Morgs said:

CHO is one of those players where I watched him a lot and for the life of me couldn't figure out where the hype was coming from. 

The hype came from the fact Bayern wanted to buy him. Nothing to do with what he has done on the grass.

33 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Pay attention.
He’s good enough for a squad place on pre-season and if he doesn’t cut the mustard, Poch can tell the club to move him on. 

He hasn't cut the mustard since his debut in 2017. Why will this pre season be any different?

[Sleeping Dave]

4 hours ago, Morgs said:

May I chime in on the Kepa debate? 

I think part of it is coaching and part of it is simple biology. 

If Kepa was 6"4 he'd be world class. But he isn't, so he isn't. He's giving four or even five inches away to the opposition players in the air in some cases and so commanding his area is always going to be something he is going to struggle with. Coaching can improve his jumping and timing which gets him part of the way there but there will always be a shortfall., if you pardon the pun. 

I also think he is a bit slight and a few times last season he had shots seemingly go through him as the ball just had too much on it. He gets called "smokehands" on twitter a lot and you can sort of see why.  How much of that is positioning and how much is just lack of strength/mass is open to conjecture. I'm not an expert so i cant say really but I have to agree with the lingering suspicion that he does lack some "presence". 

In the furore of last season, an interesting footnote (to me at least) was the jawdropping decline of Edou Mendy.  He had that streak on the way to the CL where he was nigh on unbeatable but watching him last season was painful. I mention this because watching him struggle does make you appreciate the good things that Kepa brings and so is relevant here. Chiefly, how good Kepa's distribution is. And also how competent he is with the ball at his feet, looking up and picking out the movement downfield.  He is very good at that. As a short range shot stopper, Kepa is every bit as good as Mendy ever was, and his agility and quickness in getting up again when he has gone to ground, changing feet, altering posture, getting back to the line etc, he's really capable.  For such a small guy (for a keeper) he does okay with most of what comes at him but there are questionmarks over his ability to command his area and also to keep out those long range shots that everyone seems to have twigged he is vulnerable to and were lining up to have a go at times last season. 

There is a very good keeper in there, I am sure of it. Will he ever be top level world class? I'm not convinced but the team could and should protect him better by pressing when they don't have the ball and that will help.  Arguably you could say that our centrehalves need to protect him better at set pieces as well.  If Poch can coach that, I think we (and Kepa) will do okay. 

You had me halfway through this post. For me it’s not only that he is physically weak, have rather short arms and isn’t tall enough. He is dreadful at reading the shooter, or anticipate where the ball will end up. Judging the flight of the ball is important and he seems utterly uncapable of doing that. Any high ball in the box or a well placed shot from long range is a potential goal against him. It’s gotten to the point where the opposition has a cheat code every time they play us - it would undermine everything Poch tries to build here if Kepa is #1. 

Two final points. No he isn’t that good with the ball at his feet. I think that is hugely overstated. Lastly, he lacks basic goalkeeper technique of how to make saves. Look at his arms when he is about to attempt a save - it’s so obvious once you see it you can’t unsee it. 

For me he has no strengths whatsoever, just a few attributes that’s barely acceptable. But his main weaknesses are so severe that they completely take over. He simply has to be removed from GK1 duties. 

[johnnybozo]

Kepa is fine. Goalkeeper hasn't been a problem for us. It's a lack of confidence or cohesion in the backline when James and Chilwell are out/Kante being made of glass/new signings not gelling. Mendy is alright but has his weaknesses. Honestly I'd take keeping Kepa and having Slonina fight for a place while adding depth to midfield if we get Caicedo and adding a striker. Job done and let Poch do his thing. Legit give the bloke 3 years to compete for trophies and judge him in the third year.

[Bob Singleton]

12 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

[SNIP]

My personal preference would be for Maatsen, too. However, the club doesn't seem to be looking to offload Cucurella, no clubs seem to be interested in him, and he doesn't  look as if he wants to leave. So, on that basis, it's Cucurella for one of the LB/LWB berths.

[SNIP]

 

 

[Holymoly]

1 hour ago, Morgs said:

CHO is one of those players where I watched him a lot and for the life of me couldn't figure out where the hype was coming from.

CHO was a product of the media after one or two games in the first team where he showed a few tricks and was immediately hailed as the next George Best and called up to the England squad. We were effectively bullied into giving him a massive new contract by the media who went strangely quiet when his form subsequently tanked, he went over to Germany and was never heard from again.

[paulw66]

27 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

You had me halfway through this post. For me it’s not only that he is physically weak, have rather short arms and isn’t tall enough. He is dreadful at reading the shooter, or anticipate where the ball will end up. Judging the flight of the ball is important and he seems utterly uncapable of doing that. Any high ball in the box or a well placed shot from long range is a potential goal against him. It’s gotten to the point where the opposition has a cheat code every time they play us - it would undermine everything Poch tries to build here if Kepa is #1. 

Two final points. No he isn’t that good with the ball at his feet. I think that is hugely overstated. Lastly, he lacks basic goalkeeper technique of how to make saves. Look at his arms when he is about to attempt a save - it’s so obvious once you see it you can’t unsee it. 

For me he has no strengths whatsoever, just a few attributes that’s barely acceptable. But his main weaknesses are so severe that they completely take over. He simply has to be removed from GK1 duties. 

If he was anywhere near as bad as you suggest, we would concede a lot more goals with him in nets. With him in goal we average conceding around a goal a game. Not great, not terrible and tt's not like he has playing a behind an elite back line to protect him either.

If there was a PL goalie anywhere as bad as you describe, that team would be shipping a lot of goals.

[charlie_sw6]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12250971/Hakim-Ziyechs-8m-Al-Nassr-COLLAPSED.html

It's happened again.

Edited June 30, 2023 by charlie_sw6

[thevelourfog]

7 minutes ago, charlie_sw6 said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12250971/Hakim-Ziyechs-8m-Al-Nassr-COLLAPSED.html

It's happened again.

Loaned out for the rest of his deal or released with a pay off it is, then.

[Proud-Blue]

We really can't go into next season with Ziyech. He is clearly desperate to leave. Can we not just send him to Strasbourg? 

[paulw66]

11 minutes ago, charlie_sw6 said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12250971/Hakim-Ziyechs-8m-Al-Nassr-COLLAPSED.html

It's happened again.

 

4 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Loaned out for the rest of his deal or released with a pay off it is, then.

I have just read that the Saudi club are looking to keep the deal alive and it's not dead yet.

[Mark Kelly]

24 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

 

I have just read that the Saudi club are looking to keep the deal alive and it's not dead yet.

Honestly the reports that are coming out of Saudi are all over the place , I read one where the deal had collapsed because he hadn't turned up for his medical.

The Kante one was off because they'd picked up and injury by all accounts and that one went through.

I'm with Proud , if he stays he can stay at Strasbourg. 

[chara]

8 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Is this other big club, the same big club who are trying to entice you in with things like this Mr @chara?!

 

Damn Media leak!....The "other" club brought that to the table yesterday...WE are discussing the options...but I've told my Agent not to make a meal of it.

I think he just wants his cut.

[boratsbrother]

4 hours ago, Ham said:

Don't agree that Pulisic is in any way toxic.  

He's the one I'd keep to see what Poch can do with him, uninjured. 

From what I've read Puli is very well liked by the other Chelsea players.

[Bob Singleton]

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

 

I have just read that the Saudi club are looking to keep the deal alive and it's not dead yet.

Not dissimilar to what originally happened in January with the PSG move.  Didn't fail a medical, but something showed up that initially concerned PSG. Further tests must have been OK as they wanted to go ahead with the loan. What scuppered the deal was CFC buggering up the paperwork.

Kanté also apparently had a few question marks during his initial medical, but all went through OK in the end.

Until one or other club officially announces the deal is off, I wouldn't put too much store by the conflicting reports coming from the Twitterati.

[chara]

3 hours ago, Morgs said:

CHO is one of those players where I watched him a lot and for the life of me couldn't figure out where the hype was coming from.  We as a fanbase were desperate for him to be as good as his reputation and I just couldn't see it.  Kakuta was another one, so was Musonda.  I had such high hopes for Josh McEachran as well and he was hyped to the high heavens and didn't see that much in him either. 

I think its "The JT Effect" - the fact that one of our greatest players of all time came from the academy and was at the club since he was a kid, we tend to project wanting to see it happen again onto a lot of our youngsters. It creates a lot of pressure.

Great post....did I read earlier that you have been a forum "lurker" for a long time?

Mores the pity as in a short time I already look for your posts.

Sums up the 'Academy Legend syndrome....most of us carry it!

CHO/Bayern was the bait and switch I think...had some moments but I think the injury did for him.

[Sleeping Dave]

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

If he was anywhere near as bad as you suggest, we would concede a lot more goals with him in nets. With him in goal we average conceding around a goal a game. Not great, not terrible and tt's not like he has playing a behind an elite back line to protect him either.

If there was a PL goalie anywhere as bad as you describe, that team would be shipping a lot of goals.

Mendy, who many here seem to argue is a worse keeper than Kepa has a lot better stats. Looking at the last five seasons they’ve been first choice three and two seasons:

Kepa 2018/19:

1.08goals/90

68% save rate

CS 38%

Kepa 2019/20:

1.42goals/90

54% save rate

CS 24%

Mendy 2020/21:

0.82goals/90

72% save rate

52% CS

Mendy 2021/22:

0.91goals/90

76% save rate

41% CS

Kepa 2022/23:

1.16goals/90

73% save rate

CS 31%

I can simply not support anyone claiming Kepa is the better keeper out of the two. It’s also ludicrous that many here are using this season as the yardstick to measure these two against each other, as the sample size for that is small. Seen over a longer period Mendy is clearly performing a lot better. Not even close. 

The only positive news regarding Kepa is that he’s been here 5 years, so only 2 more seasons to go 🙏

[Mark Kelly]

5 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Mendy, who many here seem to argue is a worse keeper than Kepa has a lot better stats. Looking at the last five seasons they’ve been first choice three and two seasons:

Kepa 2018/19:

1.08goals/90

68% save rate

CS 38%

Kepa 2019/20:

1.42goals/90

54% save rate

CS 24%

Mendy 2020/21:

0.82goals/90

72% save rate

52% CS

Mendy 2021/22:

0.91goals/90

76% save rate

41% CS

Kepa 2022/23:

1.16goals/90

73% save rate

CS 31%

I can simply not support anyone claiming Kepa is the better keeper out of the two. It’s also ludicrous that many here are using this season as the yardstick to measure these two against each other, as the sample size for that is small. Seen over a longer period Mendy is clearly performing a lot better. Not even close. 

The only positive news regarding Kepa is that he’s been here 5 years, so only 2 more seasons to go 🙏

Mendy was really quite good at one point , miles better than Kepa who had some crisis of confidence situation going on .

Then Mendy was voted best keeper at the ACN and demanded a new deal at the same time as his form went downhill faster than Franz Klammer , Kepa then pulled himself together and improved steadily whilst Mendy , well goodness knows what Mendy did because it was genuinely horrific.

In conclusion , and I think most people seem to think the same way , not that its a barometer of correctness , is that Kepa is the better of the two even though he's not top tier for a keeper and is an adequate stop gap until we can nurture Slonina into becoming the keeper he promises to be , but what do I know , I thought Marcin Bulka was good . 

[paulw66]

10 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Mendy, who many here seem to argue is a worse keeper than Kepa has a lot better stats. Looking at the last five seasons they’ve been first choice three and two seasons:

Kepa 2018/19:

1.08goals/90

68% save rate

CS 38%

Kepa 2019/20:

1.42goals/90

54% save rate

CS 24%

Mendy 2020/21:

0.82goals/90

72% save rate

52% CS

Mendy 2021/22:

0.91goals/90

76% save rate

41% CS

Kepa 2022/23:

1.16goals/90

73% save rate

CS 31%

I can simply not support anyone claiming Kepa is the better keeper out of the two. It’s also ludicrous that many here are using this season as the yardstick to measure these two against each other, as the sample size for that is small. Seen over a longer period Mendy is clearly performing a lot better. Not even close. 

The only positive news regarding Kepa is that he’s been here 5 years, so only 2 more seasons to go 🙏

Stats only go so far. 

If you ring fence 19/20, where Lampard made Rudiger look like a poor defender, it looks slightly different.

A very high percentage of Mendy's games came under Tuchel, where we much better organised defensively. Look at Kepa's numbers keeping goal under TT. 

anyway, my post wasn't about Kepa v Mendy...... merely suggesting Kepa isn't as bad as you make out. If he was, we would be conceding much more.

[Bison]

17 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Mendy, who many here seem to argue is a worse keeper than Kepa has a lot better stats. Looking at the last five seasons they’ve been first choice three and two seasons:

Kepa 2018/19:

1.08goals/90

68% save rate

CS 38%

Kepa 2019/20:

1.42goals/90

54% save rate

CS 24%

Mendy 2020/21:

0.82goals/90

72% save rate

52% CS

Mendy 2021/22:

0.91goals/90

76% save rate

41% CS

Kepa 2022/23:

1.16goals/90

73% save rate

CS 31%

I can simply not support anyone claiming Kepa is the better keeper out of the two. It’s also ludicrous that many here are using this season as the yardstick to measure these two against each other, as the sample size for that is small. Seen over a longer period Mendy is clearly performing a lot better. Not even close. 

The only positive news regarding Kepa is that he’s been here 5 years, so only 2 more seasons to go 🙏

The way Mendy was discarded after a few mistakes is exactly what should have happened to Kepa but he has an unmoveable contract so we're stuck with him.

Mendy had reached a level Kepa has never and will never reach. Mendy is the better keeper but his reputation has taken such a battering the narrative is firmly set. The fact Kepa has outlasted Mendy is maddening but that's what happens when you have rubbish players on wages nobody else would entertain. Even the Saudis wouldn't go near it. 

[Rob B]

The two 'arguments' I see all the time from people defending Kepa are as follows:

1. Goalkeeper isn't a priority right now, we need a striker and a DM
2. He's not world class but good enough to tide us over for next season

And every time I read them I think that neither of them are legitimate defences of his ability.  Kepa does not pass the eye test, and  everything that Morgs and Sleeping Dave have said is bang on the money. 

Just because we need to sign a striker and a DM, doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking to upgrade our goalkeeper.  We don't bat an eyelid spending £68m on a project winger (Mudryk) or £63m on a backup left back, why should we compromise on the goalie??

I don't think Kepa is horrendous, in fact, there were games last season he played well, but there is definitely much better out there and I thought we were looking to compete?   A tall, imposing goalie that helps the defence by aggressively coming out to claim set pieces, that can stop long range strikes will be worth it's weight in gold.  

[paulw66]

13 minutes ago, Bison said:

The way Mendy was discarded after a few mistakes is exactly what should have happened to Kepa but he has an unmoveable contract so we're stuck with him.

Mendy had reached a level Kepa has never and will never reach. Mendy is the better keeper but his reputation has taken such a battering the narrative is firmly set. The fact Kepa has outlasted Mendy is maddening but that's what happens when you have rubbish players on wages nobody else would entertain. Even the Saudis wouldn't go near it. 

Is he? Seems odd he would end up in SA with the other cast offs and has-beens.

If KK's wages weren't an issue, than nor would Kepa's

[martin1905]

25 minutes ago, Rob B said:

The two 'arguments' I see all the time from people defending Kepa are as follows:

1. Goalkeeper isn't a priority right now, we need a striker and a DM
2. He's not world class but good enough to tide us over for next season

And every time I read them I think that neither of them are legitimate defences of his ability.  Kepa does not pass the eye test, and  everything that Morgs and Sleeping Dave have said is bang on the money. 

Just because we need to sign a striker and a DM, doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking to upgrade our goalkeeper.  We don't bat an eyelid spending £68m on a project winger (Mudryk) or £63m on a backup left back, why should we compromise on the goalie??

I don't think Kepa is horrendous, in fact, there were games last season he played well, but there is definitely much better out there and I thought we were looking to compete?   A tall, imposing goalie that helps the defence by aggressively coming out to claim set pieces, that can stop long range strikes will be worth it's weight in gold.  

That kind of is a legitimate defence of his ability.

Quite a few people don't think he's that bad. Quite a few people think he is more than good enough for where we currently are and where we are looking to get to in the short term. Let's not forget we finished 3rd and 4th in his first two seasons so he has proved he's good enough for a club competing for the top four, whatever his critics want to say.

The fact of the matter is we don't actually have a Striker, unless you think Lukaku is genuinely an option. And we have two CM's, one being Connor Gallagher. Two. 

Yes we need to get a better GK at some point, literally everyone agrees, it's just it may not be the time when we have MUCH more pressing issues. 

[chara]

8 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Yes we need to get a better GK at some point, literally everyone agrees, it's just it may not be the time when we have MUCH more pressing issues. 

Trying to keep out of this debate (see Mr Williams  I do pay attention😄).

The question is less about the worth of Kepa but who is out there, attainable and would make a big difference?

[Bob Singleton]

These  will need to be officially signed off by midnight tonight if they want to amortize the deals over the full length of the contracts