Transfer Talk Topic

[Ham]

I really hope this of true after PSG's grandstanding....

 

 

 

[Original 21]

It’s not over till it’s over…

[Original 21]

40 minutes ago, Ham said:

I really hope this of true after PSG's grandstanding....

 

 

 

I wonder if there’d have been a “glitch” if PSG were willing to actually buy Ziyech rather than do a loan deal without any obligation. 

[NoblyBobly]

9 hours ago, xceleryx said:

The issue is that if we're to maximise Enzo in midfield he needs licence to get into some advanced midfield areas, so it's imperative that we do have a midfield partner that can sit or drop back when required. We've lost the sole person genuinely capable of that in Jorginho, and it's hard to see those remaining plugging that gap effectively short or long term.

Kante isn't the solution with his form, consistency, and impact already having visibly waned over the last 18 months or so. Even if he comes back and is still useful, his whole game revolves around his desire to ball chase. Something Jorginho allowed him to do by staying back. Kovacic is another one that needs that freedom to run, as is Gallagher. This leaves us with Zakaria (for now), but again he isn't really a sitting player either. If the midfield still retains the unbalanced nature it's had for awhile it's going to be just as big of a problem as finding a goal scoring striker. 

I just don’t think Jorginho was very good in that position anyway. It’s no great loss in my eyes. A half fit Kante is better as a DM imo.  And neither you nor I have a clue how he will perform on his return. He might be fresh and better than ever. He could be a disaster!! As other options for DM , I think there are a few ( some totally untested granted) . Kova, RLC, Dave, Gallagher, Zaka , Mount, how about De Silva? ( 7 years older than Kante!!). If it meant the difference between getting a game and sitting on the bench , I bet some would give it a go. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by NoblyBobly

[FrankLampard8]

7 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

I just don’t think Jorginho was very good in that position anyway. It’s no great loss in my eyes. A half fit Kante is better as a DM imo.  And neither you nor I have a clue how he will perform on his return. He might be fresh and better than ever. He could be a disaster!! As other options for DM , I think there are a few ( some totally untested granted) . Kova, RLC, Dave, Gallagher, Zaka , Mount, how about De Silva? ( 7 years older than Kante!!). If it meant the difference between getting a game and sitting on the bench , I bet some would give it a go. 

Celery has already posted the stats multiple times but Jorgi certainly wasn't a bad defensive midfielder. Was he a beast? No... but he read the game well and always had good numbers for interceptions. 

I don't even know where to start with this. People are bored of debating Jorginho but is there a more boring debate than "Kante is a DM"? Kante isn't and never has been a DM. 

It would be absolute suicide to play almost any of those as our holding midfielder. I don't even know how to critique that without coming across as rude in a written post.

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, FrankLampard8 said:

 

It would be absolute suicide to play almost any of those as our holding midfielder. I don't even know how to critique that without coming across as rude in a written post.

Holding midfielder is a fairly modern construct , years ago , midfielders all pitched in and worked as a unit , all doing a bit of everything .

Maybe GP is going with that model instead? 

[Box of Tricks]

Chalobah has played 87 times as a DM (according to Transfermarkt). No idea how good he was there, but he might be an option with Zakaria out.

[Phoenix Blue]

His loan to PSG would have opened up a slot for our CL squad, with him back we only have 3 picks to choose from?

[FrankLampard8]

3 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Holding midfielder is a fairly modern construct , years ago , midfielders all pitched in and worked as a unit , all doing a bit of everything .

Maybe GP is going with that model instead? 

The game has moved on though. There are plenty of things that people used to do that almost certainly wouldn't work now. Even if we did try it, you'd need to probably play a 3 of combative types and half of those listed are much happier higher up the pitch. Gallagher, Mount and Kante are all about running and I just don't see them having the positional discipline to not leave us in trouble in transition. Azpi? I don't even know where to start on that suggestion.

[FrankLampard8]

3 minutes ago, Box of Tricks said:

Chalobah has played 87 times as a DM (according to Transfermarkt). No idea how good he was there, but he might be an option with Zakaria out.

He played there a bit for Ipswich Town and seemed to do good from what I know but that was a relegation fighitng Championship side so very different standard. No idea about his stint in France but evidently enough that Tuchel gave him a chance I guess?

[NoblyBobly]

2 minutes ago, FrankLampard8 said:

Celery has already posted the stats multiple times but Jorgi certainly wasn't a bad defensive midfielder. Was he a beast? No... but he read the game well and always had good numbers for interceptions. 

I don't even know where to start with this. People are bored of debating Jorginho but is there a more boring debate than "Kante is a DM"? Kante isn't and never has been a DM. 

It would be absolute suicide to play almost any of those as our holding midfielder. I don't even know how to critique that without coming across as rude in a written post.

He did read the game well as a midfielder. But often it just past him by. He split opinion, but just wasn’t my cuppa tea. Sometimes it felt like suicide playing Jorge as a DM…it scared me. That’s the point. Are we any worse off in that position now with Kante returning. I argue no but you seem to be saying yes?
 

But I am generally curious as to how people come to such firm conclusions about how a certain player would fare in a different position. What are you using to base your conclusions? Could you agree that many players start their career in one position and then by fluke, chance or an eagle eye of a coach, they get moved them. Ashley Cole started out as a centre forward in Arsenal youth. Then a left back was injured and he filled in. The rest is history. As a reversal , it is one of my regrets that I never saw Alonso play as a cf just once. He may have stunk the joint out but I’d like to have seen it. 
 

btw nothing offends me ( not on here anyway 😂)

 

[NoblyBobly]

17 minutes ago, FrankLampard8 said:

The game has moved on though. There are plenty of things that people used to do that almost certainly wouldn't work now. Even if we did try it, you'd need to probably play a 3 of combative types and half of those listed are much happier higher up the pitch. Gallagher, Mount and Kante are all about running and I just don't see them having the positional discipline to not leave us in trouble in transition. Azpi? I don't even know where to start on that suggestion.

Are you saying you don’t see Kante as an effective DM?
So you picked on Aspi and said you don’t know where to start. Ok I will start the ball rolling. I never thought he could switch from RB to left back but he did it rather well. I never thought he could play in a back three but he did it rather well. I never thought he could handle being a wing back but he has filled in well in an unsuitable position. 
So we know he is versatile and can kick with both feet, we know he has a great defensive head and sense of danger and has played right along the back line. We know he isn’t getting younger and doesn’t run a lot ( your pro point). He can tackle, he can intercept, he can keep it simple. In fact the more I write the more I like the idea. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by NoblyBobly

[Bob Singleton]

17 minutes ago, Phoenix Blue said:

His loan to PSG would have opened up a slot for our CL squad, with him back we only have 3 picks to choose from?

Rules state a maximum of 3 new signings may be included in the CL squad after the January window

We currently have 2 'spaces', so for us to add the maximum three, someone (from the non-homegrown list) will have to miss out. Had Ziyech's move to PSG gone through, that would have been one problem solved (the other 'problem' being which 3 new signings make the cut, which 5 don't?). Now the question is, which foreign player previously in the CL squad loses his place to accommodate one of the new boys.

[paulw66]

26 minutes ago, Phoenix Blue said:

His loan to PSG would have opened up a slot for our CL squad, with him back we only have 3 picks to choose from?

You can only register 3 new ones, so we just need to decide who is cut.

[Mark Kelly]

1 minute ago, Bob Singleton said:

Rules state a maximum of 3 new signings may be included in the CL squad after the January window

We currently have 2 'spaces', so for us to add the maximum three, someone (from the non-homegrown list) will have to miss out. Had Ziyech's move to PSG gone through, that would have been one problem solved (the other 'problem' being which 3 new signings make the cut, which 5 don't?). Now the question is, which foreign player previously in the CL squad loses his place to accommodate one of the new boys.

Has to be Pulisic surely?

[paulw66]

Just now, Mark Kelly said:

Has to be Pulisic surely?

I guess, as injured, and we have signed 27 players in his position.........was likely to be between him and Ziyech regardless of injury 

[Bob Singleton]

@Mark Kelly My thoughts too. For me, Ziyech offers more than Pulisic. He's also fully fit, too!

[paulw66]

1 minute ago, Mark Kelly said:

Has to be Pulisic surely?

 

Just now, paulw66 said:

I guess, as injured, and we have signed 27 players in his position.........was likely to be between him and Ziyech regardless of injury 

 

Just now, Bob Singleton said:

@Mark Kelly My thoughts too. For me, Ziyech offers more than Pulisic. He's also fully fit, too!

Presume Kante was on the original list?

[Bob Singleton]

Of course, how easily one forgets!!! Jorginho has left!!!

[Bob Singleton]

Here's the list from the group stages

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/clubs/52914--chelsea/squad/

 

15 foreign (max 17)
10 'home grown' of which 5 club trained (min 8 of which 4 club trained)

Now that Jorginho has gone, that's 14 foreign, leaving 3 spaces for the max. 3 new registrations

[paulw66]

5 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

Of course, how easily one forgets!!! Jorginho has left!!!

 

Just now, Bob Singleton said:

Here's the list from the group stages

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/clubs/52914--chelsea/squad/

 

15 foreign (max 17)
10 'home grown' of which 5 club trained (min 8 of which 4 club trained)

Now that Jorginho has gone, that's 14 foreign, leaving 3 spaces for the max. 3 new registrations

January was too much! 

[paulw66]

I'll tell you what is strange.......I'm going to Dortmund in a couple of weeks, and when we got the tickets, not knowing the fitness of James, Chilwell, Sterling etc, I was thinking the team could look like:

Kepa, Azpi, Silva, KK, Cucu, Jorginho, Kova, Mount, Ziyech, Havertz, PEA.....

Now, even if Chilwell and Sterling aren't back, it could be:

Kepa, James, Cucu, Silva, Fofana, Enzo, Kova, Mount, Mudryk, Modueke, Havertz........ 

[RDCW]

1 hour ago, NoblyBobly said:

He did read the game well as a midfielder. But often it just past him by. He split opinion, but just wasn’t my cuppa tea. Sometimes it felt like suicide playing Jorge as a DM…it scared me. That’s the point. Are we any worse off in that position now with Kante returning. I argue no but you seem to be saying yes?
 

But I am generally curious as to how people come to such firm conclusions about how a certain player would fare in a different position. What are you using to base your conclusions? Could you agree that many players start their career in one position and then by fluke, chance or an eagle eye of a coach, they get moved them. Ashley Cole started out as a centre forward in Arsenal youth. Then a left back was injured and he filled in. The rest is history. As a reversal , it is one of my regrets that I never saw Alonso play as a cf just once. He may have stunk the joint out but I’d like to have seen it. 
 

btw nothing offends me ( not on here anyway 😂)

 

That's offensive.

[RDCW]

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

I'll tell you what is strange.......I'm going to Dortmund in a couple of weeks, and when we got the tickets, not knowing the fitness of James, Chilwell, Sterling etc, I was thinking the team could look like:

Kepa, Azpi, Silva, KK, Cucu, Jorginho, Kova, Mount, Ziyech, Havertz, PEA.....

Now, even if Chilwell and Sterling aren't back, it could be:

Kepa, James, Cucu, Silva, Fofana, Enzo, Kova, Mount, Mudryk, Modueke, Havertz........ 

It's unreal, isn't it!

[RDCW]

3 hours ago, Ham said:

I really hope this of true after PSG's grandstanding....

 

 

 

Hilarious if true! I really hope it is!