Transfer Talk Topic

[Morgs]

3 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

I think you are suffering from wishful thinking here. You were making similar noises around Arsenal last season, when others were highlighting how they had strengthened.

Rice is simply a better all round footballer than Caicedo. He's a leader who can control midfields and brings strong experience for someone of his age , he again raises the standards at Arsenal. He can also operate at CB if required too.

Caicedo is a much better athlete who has had 1 season doing very well at Brighton. If you watch him play though, he is almost a back up player for the team. He supports and helps out the defence, presses well from midfield and recycles possession. He does all these things well, yet none of them spectacular enough to warrant £100m fee. He may be a decent signing, but we are getting mugged off at £100m

One would assume we are communicating to Caicedo's agent: "we are going to bid GBP90m and that's our last bid. If you want to come to Chelsea you need to tell Brighton now to ensure it is accepted because we wont be going back if it isn't." 

I am still reasonably sure we will get Caicedo over the line. I think if we were going to tell them to stick it, we would have done so by now. 

[xceleryx]

7 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

He can play there absolutely fine and he has played there well for RB. I don't disagree that I probably prefer him in that roaming role from the left and No10 position. I think his skillset is well suited this role and he is a clever player.

The man himself though has even gone on record as saying he prefers playing as a No9 . He is happy to play anywhere in the forward positions, but regards No9 as his role.

That gives us 2 very good options, with a third option of a young N09 who we probably don't to rush too much into action after a serious injury. Plus other forwards who can cover if we need them too. As we are only likely to be playing 50 games, including good cup runs. That should be more than enough than throwing another one into the mix who is going to expect to play.

The problem with the third option, Broja, outside of returning from major injury, is that he's also not very good at this point in time for the level we need. He wasn't good enough out on loan at Southampton, he wasn't good enough in the limit minutes he played last season prior to injury, and I don't quite see how he suddenly becomes good enough now - even as third choice. His dibbling and burst of pace were his two biggest attractions, and we'll need to see if he still has the latter. The rest of his game either massively lacks or is non-existent. 

Nkunku needs to be playing that #10 role more often than not. You also have to consider what we lose if we do have to move him upfront and then need to find someone else to fill that position just in behind. God forbid if Jackson goes down for any length of time, it would completely change the dynamic of the side. Having another proper CF with a bit of experience and sending Broja out on loan just makes far too much sense to ignore.

[martin1905]

3 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

I think you are suffering from wishful thinking here. You were making similar noises around Arsenal last season, when others were highlighting how they had strengthened.

In a seasons where 3 of the previous top 4 all capitulated they finished 2nd and won nothing.

Expectations have grown massively, we shall soon see if Arteta and his Arsenal team are the real deal or if last year was the pinnacle, which is what I think.

 

3 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Rice is simply a better all round footballer than Caicedo. He's a leader who can control midfields and brings strong experience for someone of his age , he again raises the standards at Arsenal. He can also operate at CB if required too.

Disagree entirely, Caicedo is the better all round footballer, by miles. Rice is a one trick pony, thats pretty good at it and there aren't many others around, but there is a reason for that .

He's a poor man's Jon Obi Mikel and the game has massively moved on since then.

3 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Caicedo is a much better athlete who has had 1 season doing very well at Brighton. If you watch him play though, he is almost a back up player for the team. He supports and helps out the defence, presses well from midfield and recycles possession. He does all these things well, yet none of them spectacular enough to warrant £100m fee. He may be a decent signing, but we are getting mugged off at £100m

Clearly, we don't agree, which is fine. No issue with healthy debate, let's just not go round in circles, like others on here, trying to be proved right. I respect your views and comments on here but obviously see things differently.

[Thiago97]

2 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Very rarely, if ever played up there on his own though. Transfermarkt, who are incredibly accurate for this, have him as playing 15 times there, in his entire career.

As for saying his best position, is that recent where he just said he likes playing close to goal or an older interview?

Recent. It appeared on the Chelsea app and I think is on 90mins.com or something similar

[martin1905]

4 minutes ago, Lump Of Celery said:

TBF to ROTG I'm fairly certain I remember you championing him, only since he was signing for Arsenal has he become overrated. Was it you that also saw him becoming a top CB last summer, I know one member was saying that

No I said years ago I thought he'd be a top quality CB and have said for a long time how I wouldn't want him here, due to the price.

[Thiago97]

3 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

In a seasons where 3 of the previous top 4 all capitulated they finished 2nd and won nothing.

Expectations have grown massively, we shall soon see if Arteta and his Arsenal team are the real deal or if last year was the pinnacle, which is what I think.

 

Disagree entirely, Caicedo is the better all round footballer, by miles. Rice is a one trick pony, thats pretty good at it and there aren't many others around, but there is a reason for that .

He's a poor man's Jon Obi Mikel and the game has massively moved on since then.

Clearly, we don't agree, which is fine. No issue with healthy debate, let's just not go round in circles, like others on here, trying to be proved right. I respect your views and comments on here but obviously see things differently.

Poor man's Jon Obi......christ sake! You would be delighted if we had signed him.

[martin1905]

14 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Recent. It appeared on the Chelsea app and I think is on 90mins.com or something similar

Yeah, I watched that.

They asked him his favourite position as he'd been played in three different during pre season and he pretty much said 'I don't care as long as I'm close to the goal' or words to that effect.

Personally, I didn't take that, watching it, he meant as a number 9, but could be wrong.

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by martin1905

[Lump Of Celery]

9 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Nkunku needs to be playing that #10 role more often than not. You also have to consider what we lose if we do have to move him upfront and then need to find someone else to fill that position just in behind.

I am a bit torn on what to do for options upfront. But just regarding this bit... from what I'e seen in pre-season, and read about Nkunku, he actually doesn't get that involved in the game and then pops up with a goal. If that trend continues I feel like he could actually be better upfront with someone more involved behind him. What I've just realised is we have gone from years of having a load of AM's wanting to play in the 10 position but stuck on the wing, and now have moved them all on and have little cover there. Except maybe Chuk?

[Thiago97]

1 minute ago, martin1905 said:

Yeah, I get he'd that.

They asked him his favourite position as he'd been played in three different during pre season and he pretty much said 'I don't care as long as I'm close to the goal' or words to that effect.

Personally, I didn't take that, watching it, he meant as a number 9, but could be wrong.

 

https://www.90min.com/posts/christopher-nkunku-confirms-favourite-position-chelsea-transfer

He actually says striker. I like him a little deeper and don't disagree with you here. 

The point is he can play here comfortably and he has done before. You may think we should not consider him as an option here, but the man himself says it is his favoured position.

[Bert19]

1 minute ago, Thiago97 said:

https://www.90min.com/posts/christopher-nkunku-confirms-favourite-position-chelsea-transfer

He actually says striker. I like him a little deeper and don't disagree with you here. 

The point is he can play here comfortably and he has done before. You may think we should not consider him as an option here, but the man himself says it is his favoured position.

Fair enough if he's said striker, but he definitely feels like more of a Gudjohnsen than a Hasselbaink in that regard I think? He can do a job as a lone 9, but he's probably a striker that is comfortable playing off another leading the line.  

[Bert19]

21 minutes ago, Lump Of Celery said:

TBF to ROTG I'm fairly certain I remember you championing him, only since he was signing for Arsenal has he become overrated. Was it you that also saw him becoming a top CB last summer, I know one member was saying that

Might have been me that.  I've thought for a while that Rice could end up at CB and not necessarily late on in his career. 

[Lump Of Celery]

It is ironic that West Ham being greedy with their fee for Rice has now screwed the market to the point they can't afford / are too tight to pay for any of the replacement midfielders

[ShedMiddle]

19 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

The problem with the third option, Broja, outside of returning from major injury, is that he's also not very good at this point in time for the level we need. He wasn't good enough out on loan at Southampton, he wasn't good enough in the limit minutes he played last season prior to injury, and I don't quite see how he suddenly becomes good enough now - even as third choice. His dibbling and burst of pace were his two biggest attractions, and we'll need to see if he still has the latter. The rest of his game either massively lacks or is non-existent. 

Nkunku needs to be playing that #10 role more often than not. You also have to consider what we lose if we do have to move him upfront and then need to find someone else to fill that position just in behind. God forbid if Jackson goes down for any length of time, it would completely change the dynamic of the side. Having another proper CF with a bit of experience and sending Broja out on loan just makes far too much sense to ignore.

Don't agree on Broja.  He played well in the limited minutes for us prior to his injury.  He looked dangerous and the sort of player we needed.  People kept saying he was similar to Costa.  He didn't get a proper chance as all(most) his appearances were from the bench but, he always looked good.  At the time everyone was saying he should be given his chance and starting.. 

For Southampton he started the season off flying..  He ended up peatering out towards the end but, so did the rest of the Southampton team.  Southampton often start the season well and then tail-off.  His injury couldn't have come at a worse time for him and us.  I think he'd have eventually got his chance last season but, it wasn't to be.

[Morgs]

5 minutes ago, ShedMiddle said:

Don't agree on Broja.  He played well in the limited minutes for us prior to his injury.  He looked dangerous and the sort of player we needed.  People kept saying he was similar to Costa.  He didn't get a proper chance as all(most) his appearances were from the bench but, he always looked good.  At the time everyone was saying he should be given his chance and starting.. 

For Southampton he started the season off flying..  He ended up peatering out towards the end but, so did the rest of the Southampton team.  Southampton often start the season well and then tail-off.  His injury couldn't have come at a worse time for him and us.  I think he'd have eventually got his chance last season but, it wasn't to be.

Needs a loan. Wont get the minutes needed to regain full sharpness this season with us. 

[xceleryx]

15 minutes ago, ShedMiddle said:

Don't agree on Broja.  He played well in the limited minutes for us prior to his injury.  He looked dangerous and the sort of player we needed.  People kept saying he was similar to Costa.  He didn't get a proper chance as all(most) his appearances were from the bench but, he always looked good.  At the time everyone was saying he should be given his chance and starting.. 

For Southampton he started the season off flying..  He ended up peatering out towards the end but, so did the rest of the Southampton team.  Southampton often start the season well and then tail-off.  His injury couldn't have come at a worse time for him and us.  I think he'd have eventually got his chance last season but, it wasn't to be.

The bar wasn't exactly high last season, so it's not surprising that someone that showed a bit of pace and willingness to take players on was looked upon favourably. 

As for his time at Southampton, while it did start well he was also criticised on several occasions regarding his effort, selfishness and general lack of awareness at times. 

I've said before he's got a nice enough general profile of a modern striker, but he's incredibly raw and blinkered. He'll be 22 in September, has just missed the last twelve months effectively, and still looks miles away from being a genuinely serviceable player for where we aspire to be. He needs to be playing regularly if he's ever to amount to anything worthwhile here, and that ain't gonna happen as a 3rd choice option. 

[ShedMiddle]

11 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

The bar wasn't exactly high last season, so it's not surprising that someone that showed a bit of pace and willingness to take players on was looked upon favourably. 

As for his time at Southampton, while it did start well he was also criticised on several occasions regarding his effort, selfishness and general lack of awareness at times. 

I've said before he's got a nice enough general profile of a modern striker, but he's incredibly raw and blinkered. He'll be 22 in September, has just missed the last twelve months effectively, and still looks miles away from being a genuinely serviceable player for where we aspire to be. He needs to be playing regularly if he's ever to amount to anything worthwhile here, and that ain't gonna happen as a 3rd choice option. 

I don't disagree that he might not be a reliable choice at this point in time, as we don't know enough about what shape he is in.  Last season was the perfect time for him to either swim or sink but, the injury came at the worst possible time.  I don't think it's possible to say whether he'd have taken his chance or not.  In the cameos for us he looked good.  Would he have carried that on with full game time - who knows..

However, I do think the options of Jackson, Nkunku and Broja are enough for this season.  The objective is obviously top 4 but, definitely top 6.  I think it is going to be a seasons time where we will really look at pushing for the title - where the current young crop have had time to play together for a few seasons.

[Ham]

1 hour ago, ShedMiddle said:

Don't agree on Broja.  He played well in the limited minutes for us prior to his injury.  He looked dangerous and the sort of player we needed.  People kept saying he was similar to Costa.  

That would have been me. A few cameos for his national team mainly plus loan performances.  

Has something about him. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

42 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

The bar wasn't exactly high last season, so it's not surprising that someone that showed a bit of pace and willingness to take players on was looked upon favourably. 

As for his time at Southampton, while it did start well he was also criticised on several occasions regarding his effort, selfishness and general lack of awareness at times. 

I've said before he's got a nice enough general profile of a modern striker, but he's incredibly raw and blinkered. He'll be 22 in September, has just missed the last twelve months effectively, and still looks miles away from being a genuinely serviceable player for where we aspire to be. He needs to be playing regularly if he's ever to amount to anything worthwhile here, and that ain't gonna happen as a 3rd choice option. 

Meanwhile he’s got a huge contract - 5 years left?

[paulw66]

Hall going out on loan, and the club listening to offers for Cucurella. 

Excellent.

Maatsen would stay in that scenario, I guess. 

[Ham]

Some developments today which will please many;

Angelo will not be going on loan. He stays.

Cucurella is available for sale.

However Hall is likely to go out on loan. 

[Bert19]

2 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Hall going out on loan, and the club listening to offers for Cucurella. 

Excellent.

Maatsen would stay in that scenario, I guess. 

How long has Hall got on his contract? Surely he should be tied up logner-term before a loan? 

And also, please don't send him to Brighton.  Screw them.

[Bert19]

1 minute ago, Ham said:

Some developments today which will please many;

Angelo will not be going on loan. He stays.

Cucurella is available for sale.

However Hall is likely to go out on loan. 

I get the impression that Angelo has genuinely impressed with his on-pitch input and his general attitude and application around the place so far.  Nice to hear. 

[Miguelito07]

6 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Hall going out on loan, and the club listening to offers for Cucurella. 

Excellent.

Maatsen would stay in that scenario, I guess. 

I think the Cucurella news is crap. if it was true Poch would have at least tried Maatsen as LB in some of the pre-season games to see how  he would do against Prem sides. ALSO, no team will pay even half of what we paid for him

Edited August 1, 2023 by Miguelito07

[DannyLB]

4 minutes ago, Ham said:

Some developments today which will please many;

Angelo will not be going on loan. He stays.

Cucurella is available for sale.

However Hall is likely to go out on loan. 

Wonderful news on Angelo Gabriel. He's ready. I also agree with Hall going on loan. He needs minutes. There's a player there for the future. Cucurella is just awful. Thanks for the seasono. 

[Mark Kelly]

1 minute ago, Bert19 said:

I get the impression that Angelo has genuinely impressed with his on-pitch input and his general attitude and application around the place so far.  Nice to hear. 

He's certainly impressed me , much better than he was described