Transfer Talk Topic

[Chelsea_Matt]

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

We ideally need less of a roaming ball-winner though, which I believe is the underlying point @RDCWwas putting forward. If we consider Enzo to be someone that needs a bit more freedom than he's been allowed to get since arriving, then ideally his partner is more disciplined positionally to sit and cover. As brilliant as Kante was, he was never this type of player. In fact, he required that same defensively disciplined partner to be fully maximised himself. 

We're also not really wanting our pivot to advance higher up the pitch too frequently. their primary job out of possession is going to see them sit in the middle opposed to press high to try and win the ball. In possession we'll have at least one fullback pushed up, the other tucked at times to form a 3ATB,  and Enzo roaming to make himself available in those half spaces for us to play through. There really isn't a need for a Kante-like ball-winner anymore. 

If anything the ideal prototype is Matic. 

Maybe. But the defence is much more resolute and agile now imo. To me winning the ball a bit higher would be great given the fitness, speed and skill we now appear to have in attack. Either way we need physicality in midfield; personally I don’t mind too much where that is.

[Original 21]

Okay. This looks significant…

[Original 21]

The old, tight hamstring number…

[Mark Kelly]

1 hour ago, Original 21 said:

The old, tight hamstring number…

Hamstring? He's made for us! 

[Blue Orca]

On 02/08/2023 at 23:42, Original 21 said:

I read that it’s a groin tear similar to the one that Mount needed surgery for. I think it’s why PSG backed out of pursuing him. I just hope we do our due diligence on him. He could be a decent buy, but not if he’s going to be crocked for a chunk of the season. 

Well we didn't do it for Fofana before spending £80m on someone on his third big injury of career! 

[martin1905]

13 hours ago, SideshowLuiz said:

Interesting analysis - as someone who hasn't watched much of Caicedo, which are the parts you think he excels in  compared to Enzo? And how do you feel about Tyler Adams?

His work rate and ability off the ball is elite. He's very good at cutting out passing lanes and making interceptions. Has a proper engine on him and is more than capable of playing a holding role, but he's wasted there. 

He's like Kante, without the ball, obviously not as good because he was the best ever,  although more capable/disciplined of holding but completely different level to Kante with the ball. He's very good with the ball, his passing is top quality.

Enzo is elite with the ball at his feet, his range of passing is absurd and has one of the best long passes I have ever seen. Defensively he is adequate and I love that he's got a bit of a nasty side to him.

To summarise Enzo' passing and dictating the game is what makes him so good but he is plenty good enough defensively. Caicedo's defensive work, positioning and work rate is what makes him so good but is plenty good enough with the ball.

I'll get laughed at for this but I think if we get Caicedo we could push City very close. I expect us to be their closest challenger next season.

Tyler Adams, I like him a lot and for the rumoured fee he's a no brainer.

[Chelsea_Matt]

11 hours ago, Blue Orca said:

Well we didn't do it for Fofana before spending £80m on someone on his third big injury of career! 

Didn’t he have a medical in the US because their doctors were meant to be so good?

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

Didn’t he have a medical in the US because their doctors were meant to be so good?

LA Lakers doctors are good for baseball injuries 

Can't blame the clubs medical team because the have all been sacked pre and post Fofana medical 😀

[Sciatika]

1 hour ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

Didn’t he have a medical in the US because their doctors were meant to be so good?

I think it was more a case that they knew doctors in the States that they trusted to do a good job. I don't think that this means they think doctors outside the US are second-rate. Of course, UK doctors have more experience with the injuries suffered by footballers, but I don't know whether that is different (and I doubt our management does, either), 

[Chelsea_Matt]

22 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

I think it was more a case that they knew doctors in the States that they trusted to do a good job. I don't think that this means they think doctors outside the US are second-rate. Of course, UK doctors have more experience with the injuries suffered by footballers, but I don't know whether that is different (and I doubt our management does, either), 

Mmm. I was just thinking in terms of spotting issues that could cause major injuries is all.

[paulw66]

23 hours ago, kev61 said:

Kante could have been anything you wanted in midfield.

 

 

21 hours ago, jasonb said:

Except a goal scoring midfielder or even one creating regular assists................

 

 

21 hours ago, kev61 said:

Ha!.There is couch you need to lie on - not taking the piss but........

 

21 hours ago, jasonb said:

He was exceptional at certain aspects of the game yet limited in others.

 

21 hours ago, kev61 said:

I'll leave it there Jason - what player on gods green earth isn't "limited" in one way or the other.

 

So, he could have been anything, but apart from the thing he couldn't.......... got it.

[Thiago97]

We should just go and get this Tyler Adams deal done for £20m. We can start integrating him into the squad ready for the games coming up this month. We are not ready to really compete for titles yet anyway, if the club still feel Caicedo is the man then we go back next summer. I don't see any club buying him right now for what Brighton want, so he should be still there next summer, and his value cannot get any higher with it  already being stupidly inflated. He will not justify £100m on the pitch this season to increase that value.

 

[Morgs]

9 hours ago, martin1905 said:

 

I'll get laughed at for this but I think if we get Caicedo we could push City very close. I expect us to be their closest challenger next season.

 

I'm not laughing at you mate - I have a feeling you could be more right than many would believe at this point.

Some thoughts as I have my morning coffee. There are a few things we have massively in our favour that aren't being talked about as much as they maybe ought to be. 

1) A lot of the players will be hurt and embarrassed after last season's hapless, limp debacle. We have lacked hunger in recent years and it was saddening to see teams beating us last season though the sheer force of just wanting it more. There will be none of that this season.  We have something to prove, big time. 

2) Poch doesn't tolerate strollers and anyone not producing will find themselves out of the side very quickly. We have a largish squad filled with hungry youngsters all of whom are at more or less a level. Whereas in the past you had a preferred XI and then rotating it meant a drop in quality in many cases, for us that is less true than it has been for years.  

3) We can go long, get nasty if we want to. Tactically there are options. Poch is a bit fussy true but he is one of the current game's great exponents of having a really well drilled squad able to pivot to different systems in one game. This is one of his strengths. We had months on end last season and before that where if Plan A didn't work, we sort of sat there and just lost interest in the game rather than change things up. I loved Carlo but this was a key criticism of his: he didnt have a Plan B. Poch will do. Like him or not (and he is growing on me, more on that later) he is tactically very astute and has shown he can and will change things mid-game if they aren't working. The squad has options that allow this and (charitably) you might point to one of the reasons Frank and Potter's dreadful spells at Chelsea last season were so bad was that they saw the problem after ten minutes etc, but didn't have the personnel to change it up. Now Poch does. I spoke on here a few days ago about how (a fully fit....) Vlahovic gives you more options again which is why I think we will bring him in. 

4) Poch has eliminated all but 3 of the players that were causing a major issue last season and against whom, the ire of the fans was directed. I am 100% certain Ziyech and Lukaku for two more of that last three will not be here come the slamming shut of the window this month. With these gone, the relationship between the fans and the players can repair itself. Further to this, many Chelsea (myself included) had grave reservations about Poch coming in. I didn't like him. I thought he was a whiny personality vacuum, a ludicrously over-rated failuremonger who suited Spurs down to the ground. The Spurs connection was a big thing. For me, and I suspect most Chelsea, he has gone to great lengths to put that behind him and say all the right things, do all the right things, give all the right vibes to make me forget about my previous views in very short order. He's very clearly a far better manager than I gave him credit for. Importantly he is also (and I've said this before as well on here) not Potter. That will play very positively with the fans and I think there is a pent-up store of equity he will enjoy from the supporters as a result of what went before. We, most of us anyway, recognise he is a good manager and didn't come here for us to finish twelfth. My point is that the fans will get behind the team and the manager in a way we haven't seen since Tuchel's first year in charge and for many years before that. Our fans when they are in full support give the manager and the team a huge lift. 

5) No European football this season will be key. We will have fewer games, more rest and hopefully fewer injuries. Poch's fanaticism over fitness levels and conditioning (the difference in condition from last season is eye-opening to say the least!) should ensure we have a physical parity at worst or at best a nice physical advantage over other busier teams this season. That has helped us win major trophies in the past and will be of huge benefit here too. 

6) Expectations. Nobody is seeing us as a threat, the papers are busy undermining other teams and our own fanbase has little to no expectations for this season - top half or top six would be seen as a major step forward after last season's near-relegation battle and with expectations set so low, we can surprise rather than fail. 

7) We are a much fitter, leaner, more press-resistant, more physical and physically stronger side than we were last season. We may still struggle with bigger teams coming to the Bridge and trying to kick and press us out of games this season, but nowhere near to the same extent as we did last season. Teams will have to be tactically smarter to stop us. We'll be a lot more difficult to play against. I cannot overstate the difference it will make to the squad mentality to shift from fearing playing against the Burnleys, West Hams, Evertons and Bournemouths of this world because we know they will just kick us off the park, shut down the space, keep really compact and hit us on the break, to knowing we are better than them and have  a meaningful solution to their "agricultural" tactics.  At times we just sat like a rabbit in the headlights of games like this, knowing what was going to happen but not being able or willing to do anything about it. That isn't going to happen as much this season, hopefully.

8 ) We have players who will score goals. Jackson in particular looks a proper player and Nkunku is admittedly far from "the French Timo Werner" as I have called him in the past. Mudryk has settled much better by the looks of it and will score a load as well I think. There is a nice mix of scary pace, raw power, physicality, unpredictability and movement there that will cause teams a lot of problems. Defenders now will have to work a bit harder than just to shepherd Ziyech or Pulisic on their weaker foot and don't let them cut inside by keeping their body between them and the goal.  Sterling will surely have a better season than his risible campaign last time out and Madueke and a few others have a fair few goals in the them too.  Having Enzo and (hopefully) Caicedo in the middle who actually know what to do with all that possession, who know when to spread it and when to go with it etc, who can sit and spot the runs, can only be of benefit.  If we get Vlahovic he will get a nice tally as well when fit. Its a laughable cliche but if you score goals, you can win football matches. 

9) City are arguably weaker than last season I think. Arsenal have strengthened but rely too much on Odegaard and Martinelli to make them tick. They may find rotating in Jorginho and Havertz does not meet with the same success. They still need a proper striker. Rice is a good addition but is he as good on the ball as Partey was? United will be better this season but have a dodgy keeper and a huge squad with a lot of very average players who Ten Hag will do well to manage. Defensively they still look suspect to me. Accepting these will almost certainly  finish above us, who else is there? Liverpool aren't the team they were and have lost key players but struggled to replace them, I think this will be Klopp's final season there. Spurs? Nah. Newcastle? Are they really that much better than us? I would contend not. We're a better side than any of the other teams barring Arsenal, City and Yernited I think and I honestly believe with a bit of luck Top Four is wide open. Get that and then CL footie and I think we could challenge the season after. Wild optimism? Honestly no I don't think it is. We have a really strong shout - provided we can bring in Caicedo and shift Lukaku and Ziyech. 

10) Luck. We were so out of luck last season it got darkly amusing at times; like some black comedy. It felt at times that Lady Luck had donned her dominatrix gear and was spending much of the season sticking pins and God knows what else besides in Chelsea voodoo dolls. I'm not a gambler but if we put 50% of the awful happenings (bad ref decisions, incorrect VAR calls, injuries, freak occurrences) down to poor fortune as opposed to poor fortune engendered by crap form, no heart, no ability and no direction, then it would (touching wood frantically here!!!!)  be churlish to suggest that such a dreadful, devastating run would continue much longer. Good teams help make their own luck. We are a better team this season so lets hope Lady Luck recognises that and gives us a few more breaks. 

Certainly reasons for optimism. 

Maybe I am guilty of placing too much faith in kids but I see very clearly that Poch and the back room team are addressing the weaknesses we all saw to much lamentation, all too regularly last season and further back than that.  There is nothing you can do about the bad luck and injuries etc but for everything else we are better placed. 

In many ways the game against Liverpool will be a really interesting encounter which will teach us a lot. I don't see us winning it, a score draw looks nailed on, but - and this is crucial and crucially indicative - I don't see us losing it either. 

So there is some progress right there. 

CAREFREE. 

[Thiago97]

10 minutes ago, Morgs said:

Maybe I am guilty of placing too much faith in kids but I see very clearly that Poch and the back room team are addressing the weaknesses we all saw to much lamentation, all too regularly last season and further back than that.  There is nothing you can do about the bad luck and injuries etc but for everything else we are better placed. 

In many ways the game against Liverpool will be a really interesting encounter which will teach us a lot. I don't see us winning it, a score draw looks nailed on, but - and this is crucial and crucially indicative - I don't see us losing it either. 

So there is some progress right there. 

CAREFREE. 

We need to learn to walk again before we can run. If we finish 4th and have a great cup run, it will be a successful season from where we are starting from, and with all the upheaval at the club in last 2 years. 

The key starting points should be 

1) For the fans to enjoy watching the football again.

2 )The players to look like they enjoy playing for the club again.

3)The team becoming more difficult to beat again.

We crack those three things and its progress and I would be happy with that for this season.

[Morgs]

Just now, Thiago97 said:

We need to learn to walk again before we can run. If we finish 4th and have a great cup run, it will be a successful season from where we are starting from, and with all the upheaval at the club in last 2 years. 

The key starting points should be 

1) For the fans to enjoy watching the football again.

2 )The players to look like they enjoy playing for the club again.

3)The team becoming more difficult to beat again.

We crack those three things and its progress and I would be happy with that for this season.

More or less the focus of my post above, yes. I believe we have made a great start in all three. 

Thing is, as we all know, the season up to December is seeing how far we have come and then after December is seeing how far that can reasonably carry us. Inertia is so important in the Prem. 

[Thiago97]

3 minutes ago, Morgs said:

More or less the focus of my post above, yes. I believe we have made a great start in all three. 

Thing is, as we all know, the season up to December is seeing how far we have come and then after December is seeing how far that can reasonably carry us. Inertia is so important in the Prem. 

Yes momentum is huge. However, you look back to when we won the league under Conte, there was a lot of experienced top quality pro's in that squad who had been there and done it before. The transition from a desperate season to winning the league was quite easy for those players.

That is not the case now though. We have a very important core nucleus of this team and we desperately need those players to stay fit for majority of the season (Silva , James, Chilwell, Enzo, Nkunku) the rest of the players around them will deliver inconsistent performances , aligned to their age and experience, as well as coming in/out of the team on rotation.

If these 5 manage to play 30-35 PL games each. Then we can achieve top4, if they are restricted to niggling injuries all season, then I think we are looking 4th - 6th area finish.

[chiswickblue]

If we can't get Caicedo, we shouldn't be buying someone like Tyler Adams that obviously isn't good enough for a starting role. Reeks of Bakayoko/Drinkwater desparation. Hopefully it's just paper talk. Better to use a younger player that might end up being good enough, rather than a senior player that will never be a starting player for a top 5 team.

[Thiago97]

Just now, chiswickblue said:

If we can't get Caicedo, we shouldn't be buying someone like Tyler Adams that obviously isn't good enough for a starting role. Reeks of Bakayoko/Drinkwater desparation. Hopefully it's just paper talk. Better to use a younger player that might end up being good enough, rather than a senior player that will never be a starting player for a top 5 team.

Why is he not good enough? We need a holding midfielder and currently don't have one (not including 19yo Les who we know nothing about ). Adams is a very good player, he is comfortably one of the fittest and most athletic players in the league. His energy and stamina is relentless, whilst he is also technically a good player and passer, who tends to favour keeping things relatively simple and letting the better players around him influence key areas of the pitch in attack.

He had a great WC for US and was easily Leeds best player in the league last season. 

The only negative for me is his size, as ideally I would like a more physical imposing midfielder in there and Caicedo has a clear advantage on that front. Chelsea could not handle the constant energy and pressing of Leeds at Elland Road last season, Adams was the key driver behind that and the reason why they completely dominated us after about 10mins of that game.

It's £20m....it don't work out and you want to move him on, you get your money back next summer. No reason why it wouldn't work out though. He would be a very smart signing.

[Chelsea_Matt]

48 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

We should just go and get this Tyler Adams deal done for £20m. We can start integrating him into the squad ready for the games coming up this month. We are not ready to really compete for titles yet anyway, if the club still feel Caicedo is the man then we go back next summer. I don't see any club buying him right now for what Brighton want, so he should be still there next summer, and his value cannot get any higher with it  already being stupidly inflated. He will not justify £100m on the pitch this season to increase that value.

 

💯 

[Mark Kelly]

8 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Why is he not good enough? We need a holding midfielder and currently don't have one (not including 19yo Les who we know nothing about ). Adams is a very good player, he is comfortably one of the fittest and most athletic players in the league. His energy and stamina is relentless, whilst he is also technically a good player and passer, who tends to favour keeping things relatively simple and letting the better players around him influence key areas of the pitch in attack.

He had a great WC for US and was easily Leeds best player in the league last season. 

The only negative for me is his size, as ideally I would like a more physical imposing midfielder in there and Caicedo has a clear advantage on that front. Chelsea could not handle the constant energy and pressing of Leeds at Elland Road last season, Adams was the key driver behind that and the reason why they completely dominated us after about 10mins of that game.

It's £20m....it don't work out and you want to move him on, you get your money back next summer. No reason why it wouldn't work out though. He would be a very smart signing.

Yep , if we just look at the stats (which we all know can be misleading ) he's not a million miles off Caicedo and he's £80m cheaper! 

If I was running the club I just might take notice of that.

[Thiago97]

3 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Yep , if we just look at the stats (which we all know can be misleading ) he's not a million miles off Caicedo and he's £80m cheaper! 

If I was running the club I just might take notice of that.

Exactly. There is not a huge difference between these two, there really isn't.

If Caicedo was £50 million then I would probably edge him over Adams at £20m as he probably has a higher ceiling as a player. However, the best part of £100m compared with £20m and very likely lower wages and not having to piss about with Brighton, then it really is a no brainer.

[ROTG]

10 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Yep , if we just look at the stats (which we all know can be misleading ) he's not a million miles off Caicedo and he's £80m cheaper! 

If I was running the club I just might take notice of that.

Doubt it, their only focus are ex-employers teams "better the devil you know" 😀

Edited August 7, 2023 by ROTG

[ROTG]

25 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

It's £20m....it don't work out and you want to move him on, you get your money back next summer

Doubt it - he will not go anywhere until he is ready, because he will have the security of an 6-8 year contract, like the No3 goal keeper the club just purchased. 

[paulw66]

1 hour ago, Thiago97 said:

We should just go and get this Tyler Adams deal done for £20m. We can start integrating him into the squad ready for the games coming up this month. We are not ready to really compete for titles yet anyway, if the club still feel Caicedo is the man then we go back next summer. I don't see any club buying him right now for what Brighton want, so he should be still there next summer, and his value cannot get any higher with it  already being stupidly inflated. He will not justify £100m on the pitch this season to increase that value.

 

These links are hotting up. Can't say I have seen much of him.

 

14 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Doubt it, their only focus are ex-employers teams "better the devil you know" 😀

Didn't one of our team work with him at Leipzig?

[Thiago97]

4 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Doubt it - he will not go anywhere until he is ready, because he will have the security of an 6-8 year contract, like the No3 goal keeper the club just purchased. 

He is mid 20s.....in the event that he was only here for 12 months (which is unlikely) he could get a 4 year contract at another good club for similar pay.

Trouble is you want it every way possible that suits your narrative. We won't sign top players under TBSD cos we wont pay the wages . We cant move players on under TBSD because they are on good wages under a long contract .

Genuine players like Adams who want to play football, won't give much of a toss about walking away from a 6 year deal at Chelsea and not playing Vs a 4 year deal at say Dortmund for slight wage decrease and playing every week.