Transfer Talk Topic

[chara]

12 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Add Keith Richards to those who'd survive.

And Willie Nelson !!

[Holymoly]

Looks like another exit door for Lukaku has been slammed shut seeing as their supporters invaded the pitch to demonstrate against him. Can we not just rip up his contract or else invite him to a meeting in a particularly dark alley in Liverpool?

To paraphrase Henry II, will no one rid me of this troublesome player?

Edited August 9, 2023 by Holymoly

[Blue Moon]

25 minutes ago, chara said:

And Willie Nelson !!

Thought they both had ....

[Blue Moon]

Offer him a part-ownership in Doner4U, he'd be off like a shot.

[Original 21]

Well…

[Miguelito07]

5 minutes ago, Original 21 said:

Well…

So no Caicedo?

if accepted - I guess this is the end for Gallagher

Edited August 9, 2023 by Miguelito07

[paulw66]

What, is going on? 

[Floyd25]

Caicedo off maybe, but could be Adam’s deal off. 

[chara]

4 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

What, is going on? 

Jackanory ....Jackanory...........

[Original 21]

Lavia and Caicedo apparently…

[Original 21]

10 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

What, is going on? 

Lavia and Caicedo to start against Liverpool on Sunday?

[Lump Of Celery]

45 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Imho, if we do sign Caicedo he'd only bring us exactly the same problems that Kova and Jorginho did.  He's another bits and pieces midfielder who won't give great coverage to the defence or create or score at the other end of the pitch. We need a specialist defensive midfielder far more than another bits and peices player. Furthermore, he's hugely overpriced off the back of just one good season.

He is overpriced, but I don't agree he is a bits and pieces midfielder. His stats for tackling/intercepting are impressive, and his stats for progressive passing completion are also impressive. Doesn't come.out so good on the dribbling. Not just going by the stats, I've seen him setting up moves from deep for Brighton with his passing. He is quite well rounded, in a positional sense, not a Lukaku sense.

Comparing him to Kova and Jorginho, and then saying we need a specialist is a bit of a contradiction. They excelled at niches - dribbling for Kova, recycling possession for Jorginho - but lacked the other skills to be all round midfielders.

Having said that I do feel we have made a rod for our own backs with signing Enzo. I rate him, his range of passing is insane and quality, but he is not an all rounder. The clamour for an out and out DM is partly due to the need to complement his sepcialities/deficiencies, and we have had that issue for a while now with our CM's having great qualities but not gelling.  Probably 2 Caicedo type midfielders in the 'pivot' is better than, and this is an extreme example, a makelele fabregas combo. I do agree with Kev61's thoughts that some positions  can be over complicated and pigeon holed, sometimes 2 all rounders can be more effective than 2 opppsite specialists. Surely they will find each other in the others position numerous times in a game, so having 2 all rounders beats the law of averages in that sense.

But, it has worked for us in the past when Jose had us so well drilled. I find it hard to make conclusions on anything this summer until we know how Poch will have us set up and drilled positionally, tactically etc. Early signs are that the whole team pressing alone could make the midfield work much better

[ROTG]

4 hours ago, Holymoly said:

Looks like another exit door for Lukaku has been slammed shut seeing as their supporters invaded the pitch to demonstrate against him. Can we not just rip up his contract or else invite him to a meeting in a particularly dark alley in Liverpool?

To paraphrase Henry II, will no one rid me of this troublesome player?

Doesn't really matter now, one assumes he and the first team squad train at Cobham at the same time. 

Can't see the likes of Reece, chiwell and those who remain from last couple of seasons ignoring him. 

Same for zyech, cho. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by ROTG

[kev61]

13 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Doesn't really matter now, one assumes he and the first team squad train at Cobham at the same time. 

Can't see the likes of Reece, chiwell and those who remain from last couple of seasons ignoring him. 

Same for zyech, cho. 

That's not the point.He has burnt his bridges with the fans.He has no future at stamford bridge.

Unless a top team in a top european league makes an offer that is acceptable to him and us(unlikely) he is destined for Saudi.

It's possible the Saudis  will lose interest, in which case he will go to the highest bidder in europe - unless he goes to America.

[xceleryx]

4 hours ago, Holymoly said:

Looks like another exit door for Lukaku has been slammed shut seeing as their supporters invaded the pitch to demonstrate against him. Can we not just rip up his contract or else invite him to a meeting in a particularly dark alley in Liverpool?

To paraphrase Henry II, will no one rid me of this troublesome player?

This has also been doing the rounds courtesy of Juve's ultras -“Lukaku stay in Milan, we already have the second goalkeeper.”

[xceleryx]

3 hours ago, Lump Of Celery said:

He is overpriced, but I don't agree he is a bits and pieces midfielder. His stats for tackling/intercepting are impressive, and his stats for progressive passing completion are also impressive. Doesn't come.out so good on the dribbling. Not just going by the stats, I've seen him setting up moves from deep for Brighton with his passing. He is quite well rounded, in a positional sense, not a Lukaku sense.

Comparing him to Kova and Jorginho, and then saying we need a specialist is a bit of a contradiction. They excelled at niches - dribbling for Kova, recycling possession for Jorginho - but lacked the other skills to be all round midfielders.

Having said that I do feel we have made a rod for our own backs with signing Enzo. I rate him, his range of passing is insane and quality, but he is not an all rounder. The clamour for an out and out DM is partly due to the need to complement his sepcialities/deficiencies, and we have had that issue for a while now with our CM's having great qualities but not gelling.  Probably 2 Caicedo type midfielders in the 'pivot' is better than, and this is an extreme example, a makelele fabregas combo. I do agree with Kev61's thoughts that some positions  can be over complicated and pigeon holed, sometimes 2 all rounders can be more effective than 2 opppsite specialists. Surely they will find each other in the others position numerous times in a game, so having 2 all rounders beats the law of averages in that sense.

But, it has worked for us in the past when Jose had us so well drilled. I find it hard to make conclusions on anything this summer until we know how Poch will have us set up and drilled positionally, tactically etc. Early signs are that the whole team pressing alone could make the midfield work much better

The only thing Enzo doesn't really provide is athleticism, he virtually contributes in all other areas of play. Even last season having arrived in January, and having to play a more defensive role than ideally utilised in, he literally ranked in some of the highest percentiles across various important areas. He's not the typical archetype of an all-round because most tend to be athletically impressive, but from a pure footballing standpoint he very much fits the mould. 

Going down the path of having two all-rounders, as you put forward, also opens a side up to not having that edge on ether side of the ball that a more specialised or specific type of player can provide. For example two Kovacic's would provide a good go of things within general play itself, but at the same time lack the defensive savviness a proper DM would offer. Similar would apply down the other end of the pitch in terms of attacking guile and input.

This is why sides tend to go down the path of having more specialised options, because it does a better job of overlapping and covering weaknesses, ultimately giving a side proper defensive cover but also a more refined option in the attacking third. Rarely do you see teams go down the path of two all-rounders for this very reason, along with finding two players who are genuinely elite across all areas to cover any deficiencies is rare as hens teeth. 

For me Ugarte would've been the ideal solution and it's a shame PSG came in last minute and snagged him on more money, he would've been the defensive lynchpin needed. Caicedo won't be bad by any means, but he's certainly overpriced and his playing style arguably lends itself more to being a box-to-box type than a bonafide defensive midfielder/holder. Not that I think he'll be bad, he's still a fantastic player and one that will improve us in areas of need.

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, kev61 said:

That's not the point.He has burnt his bridges with the fans.He has no future at stamford bridge.

Unless a top team in a top european league makes an offer that is acceptable to him and us(unlikely) he is destined for Saudi.

It's possible the Saudis  will lose interest, in which case he will go to the highest bidder in europe - unless he goes to America.

You are right he is not coming back, however with the squad back a Cobham, there is very little chance of him not having interactions with the squad and planting seeds in the new and existing players. One can assume he telling people in Cobham the club is treating him like poo.

TBH - keeping him at cobham during the tour of America has back fired, in the sense of the club should of ousted him during that period. One hope the TBSD do not do another Ziyech, in spending to much time chasing a player and forget about offloading problem Childs.

On the positive side, think of all the extra dosh krusty Kremes are making with Pillsbury Dough boy is still in town

Edited August 10, 2023 by ROTG

[Chelsea_Matt]

Will be interesting to see the reaction in share prices in Domino’s and Krispy Kreme depending on where fatty boom boom goes. 

Maybe there’ll be a special camel kebab shop opened just for him in downtown Riyadh. 

[My Blood Is Blue]

So Lukaku has alienated the fan bases of Chelsea, Inter and Juve… has one player ever ended up being so disliked by so many different sets of fans?

[xceleryx]

3 hours ago, kev61 said:

That's not the point.He has burnt his bridges with the fans.He has no future at stamford bridge.

Unless a top team in a top european league makes an offer that is acceptable to him and us(unlikely) he is destined for Saudi.

It's possible the Saudis  will lose interest, in which case he will go to the highest bidder in europe - unless he goes to America.

Or he just don't move at all this summer and sticks it out until January before trying to move again.

I know people are trying to say he's not go options and will have to take up the Saudi offer, but he's stated he doesn't want to go there either. Just because he doesn't want to be here doesn't mean he'll go somewhere else he has no interest in being either.

Juventus really is the only option and even then there's several hurdles that need to be cleared, a big one being Vlahovic not necessarily wanting to leave Juventus, but also Poch having the final say on if he wants Vlahovic here. 

Our leverage is minimal and I really wouldn't be surprised if Lukaku remained here on the sidelines until January. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by xceleryx
Spelling

[Blue Moon]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

One can assume he telling people in Cobham the club is treating him like poo.

Players aren’t stupid - if you behave like poo, you can expect to be  wiped.

10 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

So Lukaku has alienated the fan bases of Chelsea, Inter and Juve… has one player ever ended up being so disliked by so many different sets of fans?

No - although Sutton came/comes close.

4 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Our leverage is minimal and I really wouldn't be surprised if Lukaku remained here on the sidelines until January. 

… offering a salient reminder to the team of the importance of not behaving like a total wanker.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Blue Moon

[ROTG]

22 minutes ago, Blue Moon said:

Players aren’t stupid - if you behave like poo, you can expect to be  wiped.

That’s debatable. 

Everyday he is at cobham, the more chance he has to influence people. 
 

I believe he is training with the academy players, I am sure he is keep quite about his first time at the club and how they loaned him and eventually sold him without him having a chance to prove himself in the first team. Quite a simple seed to plant in academy player, especially when you take into account TBSD desire to recruit everything around the age of 18 if their data meets the required standards. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by ROTG

[Thiago97]

Caicedo, Adams and Lavia seems a bit overkill. Could we really sign all three of them as being reported ? I can only really see the need for 2 max.

As for Lukaku, the options are running out here. I come back to what I said a few weeks back, if we cannot striker a permanent deal for him, lets try and get him out on loan in the PL somewhere. He will score goals and that can work to our advantage against our rivals, whilst not being able to play against us.

I just don't see him sitting at Chelsea until January kicking his heels and training away from the first team. He may want the move to Italy, but if there are no genuine takers for him, then he has to consider what other options are available.

I actually think due to the slightly different circumstances at play here, we do have more leverage with how this is playing out. 

We could get to the final 7 days of the window and Lukaku and his team realise its basically Saudi on a mega deal for him, or somewhere else in Europe (Cannot see many options who can afford him) or push him towards a loan in the PL.

We will likely have to subsidise a chunk of wages, but if we could get £7-8million loan fee and park him somewhere like Villa, West Ham for a season , then it could just be a very smart deal for us.

[Holymoly]

8 hours ago, Lump Of Celery said:

He is overpriced, but I don't agree he is a bits and pieces midfielder. His stats for tackling/intercepting are impressive,

I watched his "highlight" reel the other day and my impression was that he is a split second away from a red card with many of his tackles. Take into account that if we got him he would probably try that little bit harder, timing goes off like Felix, and the fact that he would be playing for us, I could see him spending most of the season suspended. I can see the PGMOL rubbing their hands in anticipation.

[My Blood Is Blue]

19 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Caicedo, Adams and Lavia seems a bit overkill. Could we really sign all three of them as being reported ? I can only really see the need for 2 max.

I would be surprised if it was all 3 and I am slightly concerned that none of them are the experienced head we really could do with getting into our squad.  I think we're probably making sure we've got enough options ready to pull the trigger on as the cards fall into place; with the final offer for Caicedo incoming, I imagine the thinking is that if it's rejected, then get the other 2 in, if it's accepted then get the Adams deal over the line and don't go back in with a higher offer for Lavia.

19 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Caicedo, Adams and Lavia seems a bit overkill. Could we really sign all three of them as being reported ? I can only really see the need for 2 max.

As for Lukaku, the options are running out here. I come back to what I said a few weeks back, if we cannot striker a permanent deal for him, lets try and get him out on loan in the PL somewhere. He will score goals and that can work to our advantage against our rivals, whilst not being able to play against us.

I just don't see him sitting at Chelsea until January kicking his heels and training away from the first team. He may want the move to Italy, but if there are no genuine takers for him, then he has to consider what other options are available.

I actually think due to the slightly different circumstances at play here, we do have more leverage with how this is playing out. 

We could get to the final 7 days of the window and Lukaku and his team realise its basically Saudi on a mega deal for him, or somewhere else in Europe (Cannot see many options who can afford him) or push him towards a loan in the PL.

We will likely have to subsidise a chunk of wages, but if we could get £7-8million loan fee and park him somewhere like Villa, West Ham for a season , then it could just be a very smart deal for us.

He's really backed himself into a corner, to be honest, he has alienated all the clubs he could reasonably expect to be playing for next season and I just cannot believe his ego will allow him to sit out the first half of the season and so where does he go now?! I wonder if Anderlecht could be interested in taking him back on loan for the season? Although, we'd likely have to pay a large chunk of his wages which I don't think the owners will do and this is ultimately the problem we will have, as he is simply not worth the wages he's on, so no club is going to be willing to cover them.

Something has to give somewhere though, either by him accepting a cut in salary or the club agreeing to cover part of his wages for a season.