Transfer Talk Topic

[Sleeping Dave]

54 minutes ago, Morgs said:

I think what we are seeing is a pivot towards using "residual player value" as a means of adding value to the enterprise. 

The thinking in plain terms is - bizarrely, considering how much we have been buying lately - we are a selling club now. We use loans and a young, hungry squad stacked with youngsters with exceptional promise to create value. 

The strategy isn't ""buy Caicedo for 115m" it is "sell players like Caicedo for 115+", if that makes sense.  I think the owners have looked at the profile of the business and its revenue streams and sussed out pretty quickly that a new stadium isn't the priority. We make (vastly) more in player sales than we could from a new stadium. The latter will happen but not until the cost to do it can be met with a huge chunk of equity to reduce financing cost and liability burden and that wont be happening for a while yet.

Advertising and sponsorship revenue is key and success is not necessarily defined by winning trophies any more. Those days are gone. 

The Academy is stacked full of exciting and talented young kids of which 80% will never player for the senior team, but we nurture, develop and grow these kids so we can loan them when the time is right and sell them for big fees later on. We will look back on Jake Livramento as arguably one of the first "new Chelsea" deals in terms of his development pathway. 

What this also means is that we have some tough decisions coming up where the club will dispose of really in demand youngsters for big money instead of integrating them into the first team. A lot of these decisions wont be popular but we'll see a lot more of it moving forward. 

Very interesting take on it morgs but somewhat contradictory. I do not think the strategy is to sell players like Caicedo for £115m+, I'm leaning towards the strategy being to sell young promising players to clubs who are ready to nurture them in order to buy players like Caicedo for £115m+. Since Clearlake has taken over the club we have signed the following players *;

Big ticket purchases:

Caicedo (up to £115m), Nkunku (£52m), Lavia (expected fee £58m with add-ons), Enzo Fernandez (£105m), Fofana (£69m), Mudryk (up to £88m with add-ons), Cucurella (£56m), Sterling (£48m fee somewhat low but salary very high), Koulibaly (£32m, fee low but salary very high)

Value deals where we expected to get more than we paid for:

Jackson (£32m), Sanchez (£20m), Badiashile (£32m), Disasi (£40m), Madueke (£30m), Aubameyang (£10m), 

Young players who may, or may not, develop into stars:

Ugochukwu (£23m), Angelo (£13m), Gusto (£26m), Chukwuemeka (£16m), Santos (£11m), DD Fofana (£10m), Slonina (£8m), 

* Transfer fees taken from TransferMarkt, I know some of these are not what we've read in media reports but they often use amounts in EUR and just write GBP without converting, some are also including add-ons whether others aren't

In terms of outgoings, no clear pattern yet other than us selling off the previous team that was always built very badly or youngsters who clearly wasn't good enough to where we want to be. What route we will take going forward is anyones guess, but I do suspect that we will see a few of the "young players who may, or may not..." category to be sold due to not developing as expected. Some of the big purchases have gone wrong (Koulibaly, Cucurella) with the jury very much out on others (Mudryk, Sterling, Fofana). If we sell Gallagher and Chalobah I think it is very clear what they are trying to do - sell off the best academy players to generate funds to buy players in the "big ticket" category. But it is also hard to say if the two three windows we've seen so far is just a consequence of how badly assembled the previous team was and hence required to be ripped up completely. Will be interesting to see what path the club takes going forward. Essentially, given where we are now, we should be able to just buy 1-3 players for the first team each season to keep things fresh. But I'm still vewry much in the camp of keeping players such as Gallagher/Chalobah to be able to spend our money on the big players that will make a difference. 

43 minutes ago, Morgs said:

What do you all think? 

Last season I said anywhere between 5th-8th with Tuchel being fired. This season I think the aim should be to compete for top 5 and hence, a CL place for 2024/25. Realistically, anything between 3rd-7th is on the table. How well we end up performing hinges a lot on how well Jackson takes to the PL and if we can get Mudryk firing. We need goals (still) and right now I'm not sure we are much better than last season in terms of that. We will compete with Man U, Liverpool, Newcastle, Brighton and Tottenham I reckon. 

 

3 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Personally, I would disagree here. I know you were against the transfer from the start and you would have to say so far, the way it is playing out, you are being proven correct.

I disagree he hadn’t shown enough to warrant that fee though. He had some exceptionally good PL performances for Leicester, if anything he has proven himself at this level more than Disasi , Colwill and Badiashille so far.

Injuries have clearly had an impact on him. It was clearly early on at Leicester that is was £30m well spent and he would not be there long. Real Madrid were reportedly closely monitoring him after a handful of PL appearances, this was reported in a number of outlets not long after he joined.

His ceiling as a CB is very high and I would say he has as much potential than the other CB’s we have , if not even higher in my opinion. His main fault is a bit similar to Cucurella in that he tries to win the ball too often, he would learn that he doesn’t need to compete for everything with experience. 
Let’s just hope he can return to full fitness and still achieve a good career here from next season. 

I have no doubt in my mind that Fofana will be seen as a flop here. Some will blame the injuries as the reason why, personally I think he would have failed even without them. He simply isn't good enough imo. Being a prospect doesn't mean he's a sure thing, over the last few years there are a lot of young CBs who have surpassed him. 

[martin1905]

1 hour ago, Morgs said:

I've been thinking a bit last night about what our targets are for this season. 

I came across a lot - surprising number in fact - of fans who have been stating as absolute fact "top four is now the minimum" and "anything less than top four and a domestic cup would be a failure."

Further - "Top four and a proper title challenge next season, no excuses" 

This is in stark contrast to where we ended up last season. I genuinely believe had the season gone on for another month we'd have been relegated.  Do people have such short term memory loss these days that we do not remember studying the table, looking at Leicester's run-in, Everton's run-in and needing a calculator to work out that we were *JUST ABOUT* mathematically safe from the drop...? 

This is the risk we are dealing with. When you break the British transfer record on a world class midfielder and overhaul the squad with 300m+ of incomings, people tend to automatically assume we will be back "where we belong" and that worries me a bit. We still need a number one keeper and we still probably need a striker. We could crack on with what we have but top four would be a bit of dicey proposition and be by no means guaranteed. We are still miles away from a credible title challenge. 

Lets hope people are willing and able to be a bit patient and give the lads a season to bed in and consolidate. Top four next season is the target in my opinion. We have a lot of ground to make up before we can say we deserve top four in my opinion. 

Or, conversely, maybe the opposite is true?

Was last season a weird statistical anomaly and the DNA of the club is to sit resolutely in the top four spots and all this summer has done is ensure we are indeed "back where we belong". Are calls to be patient and temper expectations therefore just a fundamental misunderstanding of where the club really is, and where it is headed? 

What do you all think? 

Graham Potter.

[Sleeping Dave]

15 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

Man City have accepted a bid from a Saudi Arabian club for Ameyric Laporte, while Liverpool goalkeeper Alison is also being targetted (and apparently is tempted to move).  These are hardly players coming to the end of their careers. Clearly money talks for some. Trophies or cash? I'll have the cash, please!

We've tied down our new signings to long-term contracts, which may backfire if they don't reach the levels expected and we then have difficulty moving them on, but I do wonder - apart from the 'amortisation' side of things, which makes sense - if our new owners (who have business links with Saudi Arabia, including with many who help run the sovereign wealth funds) knew in advance of this new league with almost unlimited wealth, and have mitigated against us being pillaged in similar fashion?

Timing is everything. We needed a squad overhaul and we've got it in spades. At the same time, almost unlimited money has appeared from the middle east, luring players of all ages. As we've rebuilt, so we have ensured the club have greater 'control' over the players. As that money weakens our rivals, we hopefully can continue to build this 'new project' with exciting young players, managed by a coach who enjoys moulding young talents.

Yet another interesting take on the strategy from the club!

On Laporte he is a strange one. Signed as a star, performed as a star, and then suddenly just disappeared. There were a few seasons where Stones and Laporte took turns to partner Diaz as first choice but lately neither have been in there as Ake and Akanji has performed so well. 

[martin1905]

I think we finish top 4, 100%

I think, if everything goes as well as it can, which it already isn't due to Nkunku being injured and he is arguably our most important player, we could push City very close.

I think we will beat 90% of the teams we should be beating and that is how you finish in the top four. Challenging for the league, it all comes down to how you do against the better sides and I think we will do ok, possibly more than ok, hence why I think we could push City close, a massive reason being the lack of European football. It's a huge advantage.

James Silva Colwill Chilwell

Enzo Caicedo

That 6 is as good as anything in the league. Unfortunately Silva is never going to be able to play every game and there are serious question marks over Chilwell and James's fitness. Luckily, we have some genuine cover there now. 

Sterling, I think we will see a different player under Pochettino, same goes for Mudryk, once Poch gets him right. I'm convinced he will be a superstar and think the only thing holding him back is his in game management, which is something pretty easy to work on. 

Jackson, you could argue there is a big question mark over him but I have very little doubt he will be quality. Once the team gets to know each other properly he will score for fun.

I think the plan was to play

James Silva Colwill Chilwell

Enzo Caicedo

Sterling Nkunku Mudryk

Jackson

But with Nkunku getting injured I think it most likely we play three in midfield so

James Silva Colwill Chilwell 

Lavia Caicedo Enzo

Sterling Jackson Mudryk 

Maybe it's my blue tinted glasses, maybe its that I'm forever the optimist but I think our best 11, with or without Nkunku, is much better than everyone outside City and arguably Arsenal and good enough to go toe to toe with both of them.

[east lower]

1 hour ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

If I was Todd I’d pay his air fare 

If I were Todd, I'd send him to the same medics that did Fofana's 'acceptable' medical 🤥

[Morgs]

40 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

 

James Silva Colwill Chilwell

Enzo Caicedo

That 6 is as good as anything in the league. 

Sterling, I think we will see a different player under Pochettino, same goes for Mudryk, once Poch gets him right. I'm convinced he will be a superstar and think the only thing holding him back is his in game management, which is something pretty easy to work on. 

Jackson, you could argue there is a big question mark over him but I have very little doubt he will be quality. Once the team gets to know each other properly he will score for fun.

 

Absolute agree with these. 

[CarefreeMuratcan]

1 hour ago, Bob Singleton said:

Man City have accepted a bid from a Saudi Arabian club for Ameyric Laporte, while Liverpool goalkeeper Alison is also being targetted (and apparently is tempted to move).  These are hardly players coming to the end of their careers. Clearly money talks for some. Trophies or cash? I'll have the cash, please!

It's always been cash, even for the ones coming to play in the PL. 

[Sleeping Dave]

22 minutes ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

It's always been cash, even for the ones coming to play in the PL. 

it’s one thing going to England to be paid £200k/week. It’s a completely different ball game going to Saudi Arabia for say, £450k/week. 

Personally I’d never move there. It’s a country with a culture from the Stone Age. Add the religious aspects and I’d say you’d have to be a very special type of person to go there and be happy.

 

[ROTG]

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

But that's also part of the purpose of an academy in this day and age, it's not jut about developing first team players for ourselves.

Another top draw quote from you. 

Worth pinning on the Chelsea academy wall and showing to every parent of the kids the club is scouting for the academy.

Toodles

[CarefreeMuratcan]

21 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

it’s one thing going to England to be paid £200k/week. It’s a completely different ball game going to Saudi Arabia for say, £450k/week. 

Personally I’d never move there. It’s a country with a culture from the Stone Age. Add the religious aspects and I’d say you’d have to be a very special type of person to go there and be happy.

 

It's one rule for expats, one rule for locals from what I understand, plus it is a very well developed country in terms of infrastructure and amenities, so the footballers won't want for anything they can get here while they are there. 

I'm a Secular Turk, the antithesis of Saudi Arabia's Ideology, so from my own personal morals and perspective I am in complete agreement with you. Indeed in Turkish History 200 years ago there is an anecdote that we had a war with the Saudis, captured one of their leaders and forced him to listen to music and watch belly dancers as punishment. 

[ROTG]

3 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

To me he is a fancier Michael Duberry. Clumsy, prone to lose his head, always prone to a mistake and doesn't really posses any stand out qualities.

Nether had the heart of Frank Sinclair.

Good, bad or a liability during a game frank gave it all.

Loved the man.

[xceleryx]

17 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Another top draw quote from you. 

Worth pinning on the Chelsea academy wall and showing to every parent of the kids the club is scouting for the academy.

Toodles

Ever considered crawling back under the prehistoric rock you came from? 

Would highly recommend at the rate you're going. 

[Sciatika]

The purpose of the academy has to be to take young players and help them to be the best that they can be. That's all.

[Bob Singleton]

15 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Another top draw quote from you. 

Worth pinning on the Chelsea academy wall and showing to every parent of the kids the club is scouting for the academy.

Toodles

Not every pupil at Eton becomes Prime Minister, but wealthy parents continue to send their male offspring there!

I think most parents of  boys going through the academy recognise that even if their lad doesn't make it as a regular Chelsea first team starter (and very few do!) they receive both a sporting and academic education that will stand them in good stead for the future. Some go on to have Premiership careers of some sort. Quite a few more have decent careers in the championship or abroad.

The academy at Chelsea is seen by many parents of young footballers as one of the places to 'learn the trade'.

[Sleeping Dave]

3 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Nether had the heart of Frank Sinclair.

Good, bad or a liability during a game frank gave it all.

Loved the man.

Frank Sinclair, what a cult hero!

[Chelsea_Matt]

6 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Frank Sinclair, what a cult hero!

And a better footballer than a lot gave him credit for. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

52 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

it’s one thing going to England to be paid £200k/week. It’s a completely different ball game going to Saudi Arabia for say, £450k/week. 

Personally I’d never move there. It’s a country with a culture from the Stone Age. Add the religious aspects and I’d say you’d have to be a very special type of person to go there and be happy.

 

The Saudi “royal family” are a cancer on civilisation. They are disgusting, Bronze Age, backwards, psychotic, hypocritical, evil, religious barbarians. 

[Mark Kelly]

8 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

The Saudi “royal family” are a cancer on civilisation. They are disgusting, Bronze Age, backwards, psychotic, hypocritical, evil, religious barbarians. 

But apart from that what are they like?

[Miguelito07]

39 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

And a better footballer than a lot gave him credit for. 

when he didn't score own goals 😉

Edited August 16, 2023 by Miguelito07

[thevelourfog]

5 minutes ago, Miguelito07 said:

when he didn't score own goal 😉

Didn't he score a few for us after he left, too? To balance them out.

I'm sure I remember a perfect looping header vs Leicester. 

[Sciatika]

He never did keep his promise that if we won the CL in 2012 he would run naked down the Fulham Road (thank God).

[Blue Kratos]

46 minutes ago, Miguelito07 said:

when he didn't score own goals 😉

Or drop his shorts.

[Bob Singleton]

Seems Ziyech has passed his medical and will shortly be a Galatasaray player
 

 

[chara]

Still absorbing all the morning's (for me) views and opinions but a quiet question ...not agreeing or disagreeing but the ubiquitous assumption that Nkunku, who has not played a competitive game for Chelsea, is considered a loss to the side even before the season started and an integral successful part of the future..to a certain extent that goes for others ... seems an early rush of optimism....again not +/- just curious...fwiw he did look good on tour and there are reasons for optimism, on balance I am in the + block but as yet not a sure thing. (perhaps I am answering my own question!)...anyone?

[ChelseaJambo]

4 minutes ago, chara said:

Still absorbing all the morning's (for me) views and opinions but a quiet question ...not agreeing or disagreeing but the ubiquitous assumption that Nkunku, who has not played a competitive game for Chelsea, is considered a loss to the side even before the season started and an integral successful part of the future..to a certain extent that goes for others ... seems an early rush of optimism....again not +/- just curious...fwiw he did look good on tour and there are reasons for optimism, on balance I am in the + block but as yet not a sure thing. (perhaps I am answering my own question!)...anyone?

For me it's not just about having Nkunku, it's about not having Nkunku.

He's a top player in a key position, losing him is a blow for any team, but for us, it's what backfills him that makes it so impactful.

We just don't have anyone who can really play that role in his absence imo. He'd also have been our best cover for Jackson, so with Nkunku out, if Jackson gets injured we've now got this issue in two key positions