Transfer Talk Topic

[Bison]

5 minutes ago, kev61 said:

He could see himself as julius caesar but he needs to knuckle down to the club that employs him.

In an time where the role of a fullback is constantly chasing and a lot of them are being asked to pick up central areas and get involved in build up play it's laughable to suggest Hall would refuse to play that role. Reece James and Trent on Sunday are perfect examples of that. 

2 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Both Casadei and Santos have demonstrated more across the board as midfielders than Hall, it's not unreasonable to think both are better talents in this area.

I mean Casadei has been hotly touted for years now, was stellar at the U/20 World Cup, and was one of Readings best players last season after joining in January. He's also trained with the senior Italian NT. Santos was playing first team football for Vasco prior to joining us, was exceptional at the U/20 South American Championship, then earned a senior Brazilian cap in a subsequent friendly. 

Hall has one abysmal senior appearance for us in midfield, then some good games playing as a wingback, a position that's now defunct in Poch's 4231. 

I couldn't care less what Casadei did in a youth tournament where he was playing an auxiliary striker role. I saw with my own eyes in pre season what he's about and he has virtually none of the qualities you'd look for in a CM. Gangly, cumbersome, average technique and an average passer. Hall was excellent at LB for us last season against good opposition. His 'dsymal' game against Liverpool at Annfield holds far more weight than some youth tournament games or whatever division Santos was playing at in Brazil. 

It'll be really funny in a few years time when Hall is playing at an elite level and Casadei is playing as a target man for Torino. 

[ROTG]

12 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Both Casadei and Santos have demonstrated more across the board as midfielders than Hall,

“To the music by queen

All together now “Another academy player bites the dust”

[Morgs]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

I feel like I'm swimming against the tide often on here but I'm with you with regards to Chukwuemeka , I have never seen him play for us and been remotely impressed with him , I get that he's young and I get that he hasn't had many sample games to judge him but I've seen plenty of other players , Gabriel , Casedei , Hall , Maatsen all look far more impressive than Chuk who appears to be able to run around a bit anonymously and garner praise from all quarters without influencing the game in any way shape or form.

Although that said if as we are being led to believe(?) that Hall wants out then I'm with Danny B that we really shouldn't be hanging on to players who don't want to stay. 

Agree a bit on Chukwuemeka. 

I feel he has a touch of the RLC about him. Runs around a lot, isn't amazing at any one specific thing and doesn't have the quality to beat anyone so is always head up, looking to offload the ball as soon as he gets it into feet. Neither player give me the impression of a prolific goalscorer either, even if both will likely get a couple; just not loads. I watched RLC for years and he had this aura about him where as soon as he got the ball everyone held their breath waiting for him to do something with it, for something to happen and I see that a bit with Chuks as well. Its always a bit underwhelming when the player just runs into a tackle or plays a short backwards pass. This was the story of RLC even before his injury. 

Controversial one this, but both players are far better suited to free flowing attacking teams that hit teams on the break. Both somewhat less well suited to running at massed banks of ten behind the ball camped inside their own half with opposing midfielders hunting in packs to press and shut down, as we most often have to do. 

That is why RLC will do great at Milan and why Chuks wont succeed at Chelsea until he either adds proper creativity and a quick final ball to his game, or becomes a Lampard-esque goalscorer making runs from deep and getting on the end of crosses and knockdowns. 

Whether he does that or not is open to question. For me it is too early to say.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Morgs

[Bison]

15 minutes ago, Morgs said:

Yeah that's one of the fashionable takes you see sometimes that I really don't get.

How anyone sees Ben Chillwell as anything other than a world class left back / left wing back and one of our finest players is beyond me. 

Like, how do you watch him and see a totally different player? 

Chilwell is excellent at running without the ball and shooting. Anything else that requires some skill or ability beyond running and shooting is seemingly beyond him.

[Morgs]

10 minutes ago, ROTG said:

What tosh.

top teams evolve season after season hence the need to sell and recruit annually   

So we sign Lavia for 55m and Caicedo for another 115m and then "evolve" them out next season or the season after? 

 

[Chelsea_Matt]

5 minutes ago, Bison said:

Chilwell is excellent at running without the ball and shooting. Anything else that requires some skill or ability beyond running and shooting is seemingly beyond him.

Bro. Seriously. You need Jesus 🤣🤣🤣

[Morgs]

3 minutes ago, Bison said:

Chilwell is excellent at running without the ball and shooting. Anything else that requires some skill or ability beyond running and shooting is seemingly beyond him.

Respect you mate, you're right on most things and I enjoy your contributions here. but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. 

My view is he is one of our best and most important players and that the team is weakened without him at LB as much or maybe even more so, than when RJ is injured for RB and isnt playing. He's one of our leaders, one of the few who has any bottle about him and scores a fair few very useful goals to boot. I think he is one of the best tacklers at the club, has a ridiculous work rate, is really good in the air for someone of his height and gets up and down that side like an absolute machine. I'd go as far as saying he is one of my favourite players at the club. Fantastic signing, fantastic player.

But that's my opinion. Its all subjective I guess. All I can say is I hope he wins you over this season. 

[Rick1977]

I would rather Hall, Gallagher and Chalobah stay. And we try to sell sterling and Cucurella. But we can all dream 😆 

[Chelsea_Matt]

5 minutes ago, Morgs said:

Respect you mate, you're right on most things and I enjoy your contributions here. but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. 

My view is he is one of our best and most important players and that the team is weakened without him at LB as much or maybe even more so, than when RJ is injured for RB and isnt playing. He's one of our leaders, one of the few who has any bottle about him and scores a fair few very useful goals to boot. I think he is one of the best tacklers at the club, has a ridiculous work rate, is really good in the air for someone of his height and gets up and down that side like an absolute machine. I'd go as far as saying he is one of my favourite players at the club. Fantastic signing, fantastic player.

But that's my opinion. Its all subjective I guess. All I can say is I hope he wins you over this season. 

Spot on, Morgerino. Chilly is superb. 

[thevelourfog]

41 minutes ago, Bison said:

Things can and do change quickly but signing a 7 year deal to then being asked to be sold in the same week just doesn't sound plausible. 

I'd agree. A club offering that deal and then putting a player up for sale a week later is equally as implausible, though. Even by our recent standards.

I'm with you that Hall looks an absolutely brilliant talent. I'm gutted he's off and I personally wouldn't have been looking to bring in Ugochukwu or even Lavia, who are the players imo much more than Chilwell or Cucurella who have essentially signed the death warrant on Hall's Chelsea career. I'm very suspicious of people whose role it is to sign players for 5 years time but won't be here themselves for nearly that long (and we all should be after Frank Arnesen).

I just doubt there is any real determination to sell from the club. What seems most likely to me is that the glut of young midfield signings gave put doubt in Hall's mind, someone from or representing Newcastle has put the feelers out, and the club have thought to themselves "well, we do need money and our fingers were badly burned by players who (rightly or wrongly) weren't 100% committed last year". It's absolutely crap, and a real reason for us to be very cautious of how we're doing even the more enticing, exciting transfer business. 

[Morgs]

1 minute ago, Rick1977 said:

I would rather Hall, Gallagher and Chalobah stay. And we try to sell sterling and Cucurella. But we can all dream 😆 

Well if we have to be ruthless and sell a bunch of players I'd be selling Cucurella, Chalobah, Lukaku, Ziyech, Sterling, Anjorin and a few others before Gallagher and Hall but if the lad wants to go, then so be it. 

Honestly, looking at it dispassionately, Hall looks at our DM and LB stocks and quite rightly sees big money buys and extremely highly rated players in front of him in the pecking order.

If at that point a Champions League side with the strong chance of a highly successful imminent future offers you the chance to come in and play as first choice in their midfield anchor role, its tempting. 

If that team happens to be the club you supported as a kid, it is tempting. 

If that team almost certainly offers to double your salary, it is tempting. 

If you think you are going to play regularly and stake a claim for an England call up which most would agree would be a tough thing to do at Chelsea, it is tempting. 

I don't blame him at all. Its the way the game is played now. If he goes he goes with my best wishes and sincere hopes he does well. Best of luck to him. 

Whether we are better off with Maatsen at LB cover and with Lavia and Caicedo as the DM mainstays is beside the point - the club must think we are, otherwise they'd be playing him there. 

Onwards and upwards. 

[xceleryx]

36 minutes ago, Bison said:

I couldn't care less what Casadei did in a youth tournament where he was playing an auxiliary striker role. I saw with my own eyes in pre season what he's about and he has virtually none of the qualities you'd look for in a CM. Gangly, cumbersome, average technique and an average passer. Hall was excellent at LB for us last season against good opposition. His 'dsymal' game against Liverpool at Annfield holds far more weight than some youth tournament games or whatever division Santos was playing at in Brazil. 

It'll be really funny in a few years time when Hall is playing at an elite level and Casadei is playing as a target man for Torino. 

If we had it your way we'd be selling Chilwell and have extended a hobbled Kante for another 5 years, so you know. 

Time shall ultimately tell us what happens with Santos, Casadei and Hall. I know what I won't be doing though is losing sleep over any of it either way.

[xceleryx]

39 minutes ago, ROTG said:

“To the music by queen

All together now “Another academy player bites the dust”

Rather than sniping my posts, you're probably better off focusing on making sure the stock levels of wine and crusty skin flake looking church bread are up to par. 

To steal your new little tagline though;

Toodles.

[xceleryx]

41 minutes ago, Morgs said:

Agree a bit on Chukwuemeka. 

I feel he has a touch of the RLC about him. Runs around a lot, isn't amazing at any one specific thing and doesn't have the quality to beat anyone so is always head up, looking to offload the ball as soon as he gets it into feet. Neither player give me the impression of a prolific goalscorer either, even if both will likely get a couple; just not loads. I watched RLC for years and he had this aura about him where as soon as he got the ball everyone held their breath waiting for him to do something with it, for something to happen and I see that a bit with Chuks as well. Its always a bit underwhelming when the player just runs into a tackle or plays a short backwards pass. This was the story of RLC even before his injury. 

Controversial one this, but both players are far better suited to free flowing attacking teams that hit teams on the break. Both somewhat less well suited to running at massed banks of ten behind the ball camped inside their own half with opposing midfielders hunting in packs to press and shut down, as we most often have to do. 

That is why RLC will do great at Milan and why Chuks wont succeed at Chelsea until he either adds proper creativity and a quick final ball to his game, or becomes a Lampard-esque goalscorer making runs from deep and getting on the end of crosses and knockdowns. 

Whether he does that or not is open to question. For me it is too early to say.

Like Loftus-Cheek, Chukwuemeka will suffer from not playing more senior football earlier in his career. He needs to be going out on loan in the Championship, coming to grips with the dynamics of the tactical side and finding how he can best contribute within it. Right now he's very much all physical attributes and technique, but little real understanding of the larger game itself. The way he was completely lost vs Liverpool and just allowed Mac Alister to readily find pockets of space highlighted how much he still needs to learn. 

The tactical nativity still haunts Loftus-Cheek now, and could very well do likewise with Chukwuemeka if he's not careful.

[Bison]

6 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

If we had it your way we'd be selling Chilwell and have extended a hobbled Kante for another 5 years, so you know. 

Time shall ultimately tell us what happens with Santos, Casadei and Hall. I know what I won't be doing though is losing sleep over any of it either way.

Yep, a hobbled Kante who has featured in more league game for Chelsea over the last three seasons than Chilwell. Funny that. 

34 minutes ago, Morgs said:

Respect you mate, you're right on most things and I enjoy your contributions here. but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. 

My view is he is one of our best and most important players and that the team is weakened without him at LB as much or maybe even more so, than when RJ is injured for RB and isnt playing. He's one of our leaders, one of the few who has any bottle about him and scores a fair few very useful goals to boot. I think he is one of the best tacklers at the club, has a ridiculous work rate, is really good in the air for someone of his height and gets up and down that side like an absolute machine. I'd go as far as saying he is one of my favourite players at the club. Fantastic signing, fantastic player.

But that's my opinion. Its all subjective I guess. All I can say is I hope he wins you over this season. 

Everybody here views the game differently. I'd have had no problem with Cucurella being shifted and somebody providing serious competition for Chilwell.

[martin1905]

Big elephant in the room that no one seems to want to talk about.

Fair chance Pochettino just doesn't rate him as much as the random people on this forum. His lack of pre season minutes would suggest this is the case.

There's a fair chance, he's just not as good as some of you think and he's just another over hyped young player in a long, long list of over hyped young players.

The CHO debate should never be forgotten. The arguing that went on here when 99% of you all thought he was going to be a superstar and would not have it any other way really should be enough to stop this happening with other players, especially ones that have played so little.

Wasn't Billy Gilmour the next Xavi and levels above Jorginhio after a half decent debut against Liverpool?

I couldn't care less about selling Hall. In fact I think if we can get anything like £35m for an 18 year old that's barely played then we should be laughing all the way to the bank.

[Morgs]

Dont want to throw a figurative grenade into the pond but....

I have a hypothetical question. Show of hands if you want. 

Would you be okay with selling Hall for 30m if it meant keeping hold of Gallagher by way of removing any financial imperative that he be sold?

 

[Chelsea_Matt]

5 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Big elephant in the room that no one seems to want to talk about.

Fair chance Pochettino just doesn't rate him as much as the random people on this forum. His lack of pre season minutes would suggest this is the case.

There's a fair chance, he's just not as good as some of you think and he's just another over hyped young player in a long, long list of over hyped young players.

The CHO debate should never be forgotten. The arguing that went on here when 99% of you all thought he was going to be a superstar and would not have it any other way really should be enough to stop this happening with other players, especially ones that have played so little.

Wasn't Billy Gilmour the next Xavi and levels above Jorginhio after a half decent debut against Liverpool?

I couldn't care less about selling Hall. In fact I think if we can get anything like £35m for an 18 year old that's barely played then we should be laughing all the way to the bank.

Yes I was thinking this. If Poch doesn’t rate him then ok. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, Morgs said:

Dont want to throw a figurative grenade into the pond but....

I have a hypothetical question. Show of hands if you want. 

Would you be okay with selling Hall for 30m if it meant keeping hold of Gallagher by way of removing any financial imperative that he be sold?

 

Yes.

[xceleryx]

2 minutes ago, Morgs said:

Dont want to throw a figurative grenade into the pond but....

I have a hypothetical question. Show of hands if you want. 

Would you be okay with selling Hall for 30m if it meant keeping hold of Gallagher by way of removing any financial imperative that he be sold?

Absolutely.

[Floyd25]

1 hour ago, kev61 said:

The one thing I am sure of is Hall is not a winger regardless of age.

 

Well more of a wing back than a full back at least, attack minded, very good at taking his man on and beating him, technically gifted etc…

[Lump Of Celery]

16 minutes ago, Morgs said:

Dont want to throw a figurative grenade into the pond but....

I have a hypothetical question. Show of hands if you want. 

Would you be okay with selling Hall for 30m if it meant keeping hold of Gallagher by way of removing any financial imperative that he be sold?

 

Gallagher could be handy this season, but long term looks like a square peg in a round hole. Compared to others not defensively sound enough at CM, and not skillful enough further forward. I appreciate his hard work, effort and attitude though.

When I've seen Hall play in a crap side last season at 18 years old, he makes things happen and creates great chances. That's a valuable quality

[ChelseaJambo]

I've never seen Hall in midfield so maybe his expertise masks it but personally (despite doing well) I felt he looked quite slow and unathletic in the appearances at wing back. Maybe just a case of appearances being deceiving.

[paulw66]

38 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

 

Fair chance Pochettino just doesn't rate him as much as the random people on this forum. His lack of pre season minutes would suggest this is the case.

 

I thought his lack of game time was more down to the fact that he was expected to go out on loan.

Either way, who knows the actual truth. I think it is pretty clear the club wanted to keep him and send him on loan to Palace. Newcastle now want to buy him and he is interested.

 

[RDCW]

6 hours ago, kev61 said:

The path to enlightenment is a Buddhist philosophy and the meaning is to stay away from extremist views.

The socratic  paradox is a Greek philosophy and the meaning is accept you know nothing - completely different philosophies.

You need to do a bit more reading about Socrates!

"The path to enlightenment" may have been appropriated as a Buddhist aphorism, but the concept is not exclusive to it.

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by RDCW