Transfer Talk Topic

[Box of Tricks]

Sad to see Lewis Hall moving on - it's always nice seeing players from the place you're from make their way into the Chelsea team.

I don't know which position he'll truly establish himself in, but this has all the feelings of a monumental ****k up. I actually think we've made the right call time after time on letting academy players "move on" but I fear not making a convincing enough case for him to stay might look like a very bad move later down the line.

I remember at the time calling last summer's transfer window  "utterly abysmal" and I think this another cost of it. Cucurella shouldn't even have been considered, and when you boil it down, players like Chukwuemeka (who got minutes here and there dotted around midfield) don't really bring anything meaningful to a match situation, and likely never will. 

Whereas given time, I think Lewis Hall would make a greater impact anywhere he plays - he already showed that at 18 against some very tough opposition last season. And we could saved ourselves £80m by having more minutes spare for him not taken up by unnecessary squad players. Even in the 'now' when the money has been spent, you try and get those players out the door first.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Box of Tricks

[DannyLB]

3 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

The Lewis Hall news has ruined this whole window for me because it confirms my worst fear. 

Short-sighted.

What a take.

 

The best transfer window the club has seen in its history (yes yes, on paper) signing top young talent to long term contracts, bringing in an elite manager that is known to work with young players, emphasizing the importance of continuing to produce top talent from the academy calling it crucial to our sustainability (because obviously this level of spend cannot continue), improve our stadium (long overdue), expand the brand and the commercial side, invest an ungodly amount of money in the squad with aim to have success in the short and long run, promote Maatsen and Colwill (academy products) to the first team and get accused of being short-sighted because we sold an academy player.

 

 

[Chelsea_Matt]

8 minutes ago, DannyLB said:

What a take.

 

The best transfer window the club has seen in its history (yes yes, on paper) signing top young talent to long term contracts, bringing in an elite manager that is known to work with young players, emphasizing the importance of continuing to produce top talent from the academy calling it crucial to our sustainability (because obviously this level of spend cannot continue), improve our stadium (long overdue), expand the brand and the commercial side, invest an ungodly amount of money in the squad with aim to have success in the short and long run, promote Maatsen and Colwill (academy products) to the first team and get accused of being short-sighted because we sold an academy player.

 

 

If Maatsen really establishes himself I’ll accept the Hall sale. Still think we should keep Conor and Trev…

[CarefreeMuratcan]

£37 million for Hall is a hell of a good deal though. I would have preferred him to stay, but for £37 million it's decent compensation. If he turns out to NOT make his potential then we will look shrewd. These things can go both ways. 

[chara]

Beware the next Academy super star.... Hall has "potential" as did CHO. RLC, Josh and a long list of never quite made it prospects.

How old were JT, Reece, Mount  when they went out on loan?...the making of them..others not so much!

Of all the "lost" academy sales only Ake is really doing well in the EPL as far as I can see,,,and how long did it take him to get where he is and benefiting from playing in a great team and top players ?....at B'mouth etc he would still be a good player but not outstanding and not a bite your B player.

The top clubs produce top graduates but the time that the youth systems for that level were necessary feeders of the "first team" is long gone..at humbler levels still a function but youth systems are feeders for the "industry" not the top level..only the truly elite are kept long term and as ever they are few and far between.

The "emotional" attachment is not confined to Academy graduates...No better illustrated than by Dave/Kante...both leaving with a wealth of goodwill and understood regrets...not so others !..that "attachment" is earned not gifted.

 

[Mark Kelly]

I see Liverpool have signed Endo from Stuttgart , Japan's Captain , and new holder of the "greatest player the world has ever seen playing for everyone's favourite second team" award. 

He must be , they only tried signing four other players before they got to him,

[chara]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I see Liverpool have signed Endo from Stuttgart , Japan's Captain , and new holder of the "greatest player the world has ever seen playing for everyone's favourite second team" award. 

He must be , they only tried signing four other players before they got to him,

But But Mark.....Liverpool supporter from the cradle as was his Dad, Grandad Mum back to the beginning of the "Legend"..... a "Dream Come True"..... Scouseland the home of the Sushi!...Cold comfort indeed.

[Mark Kelly]

8 minutes ago, chara said:

But But Mark.....Liverpool supporter from the cradle as was his Dad, Grandad Mum back to the beginning of the "Legend"..... a "Dream Come True"..... Scouseland the home of the Sushi!...Cold comfort indeed.

Funnily enough I wouldn't be surprised if he was really good but their rhetoric every single time they sign someone is laughable and beaten only when you sign one of their targeted signings where it "always" comes down to money and money alone 

[Bob Singleton]

Increased talk of us maybe being interested in Ivan Fresneda (Real Valladolid), an 18 year old right back with (currently) a €10m/£8.5m release clause. Also wanted by Barcelona and Arsenal.  First link was just over a week ago in Sport.es but since Reece James' injury the stories have now spread to the UK press (Metro, Mail and a few Twitter ITKs)
 

 

[chara]

10 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Funnily enough I wouldn't be surprised if he was really good but their rhetoric every single time they sign someone is laughable and beaten only when you sign one of their targeted signings where it "always" comes down to money and money alone 

Didn't realise at first he is 30...late to start in the EPL as we saw with KK not a great sign but then again Silva?

[Chelsea_Matt]

12 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Funnily enough I wouldn't be surprised if he was really good but their rhetoric every single time they sign someone is laughable and beaten only when you sign one of their targeted signings where it "always" comes down to money and money alone 

And they were all boyhood Liverpool fans of course 🤣 🇯🇵 

[chara]

2 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

And they were all boyhood Liverpool fans of course 🤣 🇯🇵 

Weren't we all?😇

[Sleeping Dave]

1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

I'm disappointed but it is a big stretch to be calling this a "model" at this point, and a very bold call to be saying the players we have brought in aren't any better. Do you genuinely not think, as far as direct comparisons can be made, that the likes of Fernández and Caicedo are not better than Lewis Hall?

Let's not forget we've cleared the decks this summer, 18 outgoings in total and up to 19 with Hall. That would make only three players who are academy products, and two of them going after lengthy periods with the senior team. The overwhelming majority being sold off are not academy products.

We are going to be selling academy products, so you will be "proven" correct in that sense. But every football club does, and we will he selling players we have bought, too. City have made huge money from doing just that this summer. "Top talent" will continue to come here for the reason it always has. Because we provide a second-to-none football education.

I’m obviously not talking about our two club record signings - I think you already know that though.

Sure, all clubs sell academy players. But most try to avoid selling their best academy players if they can. We on the other hand seem to see them as some pawns in this ridiculous FFP game we are playing. Next Chalobah and Gallagher. It doesn’t matter if they are good enough, Clearlake only sees $$$ they can spend on foreign clubs academy players. 

[Mark Kelly]

1 hour ago, Sleeping Dave said:

I’m obviously not talking about our two club record signings - I think you already know that though.

Sure, all clubs sell academy players. But most try to avoid selling their best academy players if they can. We on the other hand seem to see them as some pawns in this ridiculous FFP game we are playing. Next Chalobah and Gallagher. It doesn’t matter if they are good enough, Clearlake only sees $$$ they can spend on foreign clubs academy players. 

I do worry that they value other sides prospects as better than ours, and goodness knows why that is, hopefully not so someone can point to their CV a bit down the track as they grift for a new job. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Mark Kelly

[RDCW]

32 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I do worry that they value other sides prospects as better than ours, and goodness knows why that is, hopefully not so someone can point to their CV a bit down the track as they grift for a new job. 

It's a bean counter's mode of business: if we can sell one of our academy boys for £30 million and recognise the incoming revenue in full the consequent figure available for an incoming player, assuming we amortise over 5 years, is £150 million. Our academy prospects will always, therefore  be disadvantaged by accounting conventions in the estimation of the current owners. An academy prospect would have to be an immediate world beater in order to make the cut.

Edited August 18, 2023 by RDCW

[Sleeping Dave]

43 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I do worry that they value other sides prospects as better than ours, and goodness knows why that is, hopefully not so someone can point to their CV a bit down the track as they grift for a new job. 

Frank Arnesen waves hello 👋 

12 minutes ago, RDCW said:

It's a bean counter's mode of business: if we can sell one of our academy boys for £30 million and recognise the incoming revenue in full the consequent figure available for an incoming player, assuming we amortise over 5 years, is £150 million. Our academy prospects will always, therefore  be disadvantaged by accounting conventions in the estimation of the current owners. An academy prospect would have to be an immediate world beater in order to make the cut.

Which is an excellent point. FFP by design would then disadvantage academy players simply by design - something I’m sure wasn’t the idea to begin with. Quite the contrary most likely. 

 

[DannyLB]

31 minutes ago, RDCW said:

 An academy prospect would have to be an immediate world beater in order to make the cut.

I would argue this is just fine if "immediate" is the more realistic top academy player also gone on loan and performed well, coming back with experience and proven (James, Colwill, the stain that went to United).

 

A good point made above around FFP disadvantaging the academy player, however. 

[thevelourfog]

2 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

I’m obviously not talking about our two club record signings - I think you already know that though.

Sure, all clubs sell academy players. But most try to avoid selling their best academy players if they can. We on the other hand seem to see them as some pawns in this ridiculous FFP game we are playing. Next Chalobah and Gallagher. It doesn’t matter if they are good enough, Clearlake only sees $$$ they can spend on foreign clubs academy players. 

Put your money where your mouth is, then. Just say who you are talking about. You're right that it seemed ridiculous to me that you'd think Hall was better than Caicedo and Fernández, but you are the one saying we're selling academy players to fund foreign players no better than them. Given Hall is the single academy player we've sold without first having been part of the senior squad for years, you really should be including specific examples if you don't want to be misunderstood. 

As it is, I think I'm understanding fine. You're seeing a pattern that doesn't yet and may never exist. I think these owners get the price of everything and the value of nothing so have some sympathy with what it seems you are feeling, but I won't pretend there's a trend or model yet.

[Ham]

7 hours ago, Miguelito07 said:

Lavia and Caicedo are better MFs than Hall

No need for that language M07.... 

🤔

[Original 21]

I’d be lying if I said I’d ever heard of him…

[Original 21]

[east lower]

Heard a whisper this evening, that a short-term contract for another Belgian might be happening! Cover for Nkunku allegedly.

[Chelsea_Matt]

4 minutes ago, east lower said:

Heard a whisper this evening, that a short-term contract for another Belgian might be happening! Cover for Nkunku allegedly.

Another fatty!! 🤣 Impossible not to love this one though 

[east lower]

1 minute ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

Another fatty!! 🤣 Impossible not to love this one though 

Imagine the amount of money the butchers in Cobham and Oxshott will make on burgers 🍔.

Personally I’d love to see Eden one last time back where he now knows he belonged.

[Bob Singleton]

1 hour ago, Original 21 said:

I’d be lying if I said I’d ever heard of him…

First rumours emerged in early July. Had a good loan at Reims last season. Lots of other clubs interested. Monaco bid around £34m which was rejected as Arsenal want £40m. Could have represented England or Nigeria, but has thrown his lot in with the USMNT

Edited August 18, 2023 by Bob Singleton