Transfer Talk Topic

[Sleeping Dave]

4 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

 

 

If that’s true, just wow. Not that I would put it past them mind, but that’s no way to run a football club. If a player like Maddison becomes available you do everything you can to get him. Not standing by, watching him go to one of your biggest rivals. 

Clowns. 

[xceleryx]

21 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

If that’s true, just wow. Not that I would put it past them mind, but that’s no way to run a football club. If a player like Maddison becomes available you do everything you can to get him. Not standing by, watching him go to one of your biggest rivals. 

Clowns. 

In fairness Maddison will be 27 in November and has a long history of knee and hip issues, crafty player but with fitness concerns. While I do like him as a player, and he'd certainly have been someone I'd have liked us to pick up on the cheap, if we're looking to organically grow as a collective across the next 3-4 years then I can understand if he's seen as not fitting our timeline. 

May be a hard concept for a lot of football fans to understand, but if anyone that does follow American sports like the NBA as a good example, then you'll know how rebuilds are generally constructed and if players don't fit the laid out timeline a team has in place then rarely will they pick up players outside of that. If they do, it's generally to take on bad contracts for draft picks to help their own cause. Can't really do that in football, where's it's harder to sign established players short term to then flip for capital.

[Max Fowler]

30 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

In fairness Maddison will be 27 in November and has a long history of knee and hip issues, crafty player but with fitness concerns. While I do like him as a player, and he'd certainly have been someone I'd have liked us to pick up on the cheap, if we're looking to organically grow as a collective across the next 3-4 years then I can understand if he's seen as not fitting our timeline. 

May be a hard concept for a lot of football fans to understand, but if anyone that does follow American sports like the NBA as a good example, then you'll know how rebuilds are generally constructed and if players don't fit the laid out timeline a team has in place then rarely will they pick up players outside of that. If they do, it's generally to take on bad contracts for draft picks to help their own cause. Can't really do that in football, where's it's harder to sign established players short term to then flip for capital.

Not sure if him being 27 makes much of a difference, but I agree with the injury concerns.

So is this our grand strategy then? Sign the best youngsters across the globe and "flip for capital"?

Todd and co. should have learned that the fans won't accept lack of progress in the meantime.

This league and our fanbase takes no prisoners. There is no room to "organically grow for 3-4 years".

From Barnay Ronay's article the other day:

"The fact is, nobody knows what the best talent is. This isn’t a draft system. This isn’t US sport where competence is far more measurable in numbers and stats. Football is chancy, obscure, chemistry-based, nurture‑dependent. Mykhailo Mudryk is a super-talented footballer in isolation. But he needs tender care, stability and a system to work inside, as does every other young player hurled into Chelsea’s human investment portfolio. This is a model that will destroy careers as much as enrich them."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/aug/30/chelsea-owners-may-see-clubs-own-fans-as-obstacles-in-violent-new-world

[Sleeping Dave]

9 hours ago, xceleryx said:

In fairness Maddison will be 27 in November and has a long history of knee and hip issues, crafty player but with fitness concerns. While I do like him as a player, and he'd certainly have been someone I'd have liked us to pick up on the cheap, if we're looking to organically grow as a collective across the next 3-4 years then I can understand if he's seen as not fitting our timeline. 

May be a hard concept for a lot of football fans to understand, but if anyone that does follow American sports like the NBA as a good example, then you'll know how rebuilds are generally constructed and if players don't fit the laid out timeline a team has in place then rarely will they pick up players outside of that. If they do, it's generally to take on bad contracts for draft picks to help their own cause. Can't really do that in football, where's it's harder to sign established players short term to then flip for capital.

27 is no age for a footballer. He’ll be a top player for another 4-5 seasons so whatever timeline our current owners have I’m pretty sure 4-5 seasons will do is fine. 

The overall feeling is that they are trying a little bit too hard to outsmart the league. It’s not something that you do very easily. 

[Blue Orca]

15 hours ago, xceleryx said:

In fairness Maddison will be 27 in November and has a long history of knee and hip issues, crafty player but with fitness concerns. While I do like him as a player, and he'd certainly have been someone I'd have liked us to pick up on the cheap, if we're looking to organically grow as a collective across the next 3-4 years then I can understand if he's seen as not fitting our timeline. 

May be a hard concept for a lot of football fans to understand, but if anyone that does follow American sports like the NBA as a good example, then you'll know how rebuilds are generally constructed and if players don't fit the laid out timeline a team has in place then rarely will they pick up players outside of that. If they do, it's generally to take on bad contracts for draft picks to help their own cause. Can't really do that in football, where's it's harder to sign established players short term to then flip for capital.

Although injury worries didn't stop us paying £80m for Fofana despite a serious injury at Leicester and now two for us. Maddison would have added guile centrally something different to  Caicedo and Enzo. 

[Blue Orca]

14 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Not sure if him being 27 makes much of a difference, but I agree with the injury concerns.

So is this our grand strategy then? Sign the best youngsters across the globe and "flip for capital"?

Todd and co. should have learned that the fans won't accept lack of progress in the meantime.

This league and our fanbase takes no prisoners. There is no room to "organically grow for 3-4 years".

From Barnay Ronay's article the other day:

"The fact is, nobody knows what the best talent is. This isn’t a draft system. This isn’t US sport where competence is far more measurable in numbers and stats. Football is chancy, obscure, chemistry-based, nurture‑dependent. Mykhailo Mudryk is a super-talented footballer in isolation. But he needs tender care, stability and a system to work inside, as does every other young player hurled into Chelsea’s human investment portfolio. This is a model that will destroy careers as much as enrich them."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/aug/30/chelsea-owners-may-see-clubs-own-fans-as-obstacles-in-violent-new-world

Typical Guardian headline 😆

[Sciatika]

Barney Ronay - 'nuff said.

[Mark Kelly]

5 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

Barney Ronay - 'nuff said.

The mark of Kwolity. 

[xceleryx]

22 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Not sure if him being 27 makes much of a difference, but I agree with the injury concerns.

So is this our grand strategy then? Sign the best youngsters across the globe and "flip for capital"?

Todd and co. should have learned that the fans won't accept lack of progress in the meantime.

This league and our fanbase takes no prisoners. There is no room to "organically grow for 3-4 years".

From Barnay Ronay's article the other day:

"The fact is, nobody knows what the best talent is. This isn’t a draft system. This isn’t US sport where competence is far more measurable in numbers and stats. Football is chancy, obscure, chemistry-based, nurture‑dependent. Mykhailo Mudryk is a super-talented footballer in isolation. But he needs tender care, stability and a system to work inside, as does every other young player hurled into Chelsea’s human investment portfolio. This is a model that will destroy careers as much as enrich them."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/aug/30/chelsea-owners-may-see-clubs-own-fans-as-obstacles-in-violent-new-world

I suppose it hinges on how many years we're looking to build over. If we're aiming to be a title challenging side in another 3-4 years time for example, then someone who will be 27 this season probably doesn't fit that timeframe particularly well. Then of course you factor in the injuries on top and I guess the appeal dwindles, even if the player may make an immediate difference. 

Some of our signings will be just that, flipped for capital to then reinvest. We've obviously got a desire to try and sign a lot of young talented players, we all know that they aren't all going to pan out, but if you think about it for a moment there is actual reasoning. Let's say we spend £100m on 5 talents, if one of those talents hit and pan out to be a good first team player that's valued at £60m+ down the line. We're not only saving money there and then, we're also £40m up on our original investment on the individual. If we then sell the remaining four players, even if only for £10 million more than what we paid, then we'd be making £40m on our original investment in the four others. And because all these players are on cost controlled wages they aren't a huge negative on that side of the coin. 

Obviously football is quite different to American sports systems, if you follow both you'll notice the adjustments ownership have made to try combat this somewhat. It's not going to be perfect, no plan or approach is, but we weren't getting any closer (or better) with the direction we were heading in prior to challenging on a domestic front again. Investing in young talent as we have done will see growing pains, but there's also the real possibility of having the foundations of the club being reestablished again. With foundations in place it's also much easier to then add those one or two elite level players down the line to round things out. 

We'll see what happens either way. 

 

[Mark Kelly]

Just seen that Corinthians Chief scout Allyson Marins has started working for Chelsea ( he started in July) so I would imagine this is where all the Brazilian players are coming from.

I can imagine that at one point Boehly said " Buy me Brazilian players" and Stewart and Winstanley thought , that seems like a lot but we'll do our best . 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Mark Kelly

[Morgs]

Still angry about Saturday by the way. 
 

Anyone else still fuming? 

[chara]

1 minute ago, Morgs said:

Still angry about Saturday by the way. 
 

Anyone else still fuming? 

Yep

[Mark Kelly]

47 minutes ago, Morgs said:

Still angry about Saturday by the way. 
 

Anyone else still fuming? 

Yes and no.

In as much as I am because of the manner of the defeat but no as we've only had four games and even I think it's a bit daft to go mental this soon, even though I did. 

I want to see some change from Poch more than anything. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 hour ago, Morgs said:

Still angry about Saturday by the way. 
 

Anyone else still fuming? 

Yes. Yes I am, Morgerino tbh. 

[chara]

58 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Yes and no.

In as much as I am because of the manner of the defeat but no as we've only had four games and even I think it's a bit daft to go mental this soon, even though I did. 

I want to see some change from Poch more than anything. 

Me too Mark...still mad about the first defeat I ever saw and every one since ...they are all filed under ANGRY!

Angry at losing but not as yet part of a season defining emotion as per last season. (So far!)

As a veteran of Chelsea heartache I think the first four EPL games have followed almost a traditional Chelsea pattern and all the results were predictable using past experience..draw with Liverpool...tick...away to WHam..robbed as usual plus shoot in foot ..tick...Home to Luton..win against one season epl members..tick.... lose/undone to packed Forest by usual "error"..tick......😆🧙‍♂️

[east lower]

3 hours ago, Morgs said:

Still angry about Saturday by the way. 
 

Anyone else still fuming? 

Seething, but more so with the owners and their heads of recruitment. 
 

The football world is obsessed with midfielders and attacking fullbacks. Anyone who’s watched us for at least three seasons knows we’ve needed a centre-forward, who’ll get into the 12 yard box to get on the end of the numerous chances in that area created. 
 

So what do we do, we splurge £220m on two young central midfielders, piling loads of extra pressure on these youngsters and expecting them to drag us through. No surprises that both have struggled at first, Enzo just showing signs of coming through it. We also buy two ‘second’ strikers, expecting one of them to front-up to some of the biggest, best and toughest centre-halves in world football. No surprise that we snatch at chances. 
 

We ought to have gone balls-out for a proper centre-forward over another £100m+ midfielder. For the next three/four months we’re reliant on the hope (vain in my view) that Broja can cut it after a year out or our 18? year old Brazilian forward (who looks lightweight to me) is a revelation.

The people who should be getting the questions asked of them are those recruiting and the owners as regards strategy.

Edited September 4, 2023 by east lower

[ShedMiddle]

Odds on Sancho coming in Jan?

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, ShedMiddle said:

Odds on Sancho coming in Jan?

High. Chelsea supporter too. 

[Max Fowler]

10 minutes ago, east lower said:

Seething, but more so with the owners and their heads of recruitment. 
 

The football world is obsessed with midfielders and attacking fullbacks. Anyone who’s watched us for at least three seasons knows we’ve needed a centre-forward, who’ll get into the 12 yard box to get on the end of the numerous chances in that area created. 
 

So what do we do, we splurge £220m on two young central midfielders, piling loads of extra pressure on these youngsters and expecting them to drag us through. No surprises that both have struggled at first, Enzo just showing signs of coming through it. We also buy two ‘second’ strikers, expecting one of them to front-up to some of the biggest, best and toughest centre-halves in world football. No surprise that we snatch at chances. 
 

We ought to have gone balls-out for a proper centre-forward over another £100m+ midfielder. For the next three/four months we’re reliant on the hope (vain in my view) that Broja can cut it after a year out or our 18? year old Brazilian forward (who looks lightweight to me) is a revelation.

The people who should be getting the questions asked of them are those recruiting and the owners as regards strategy.

Given 1 our billion spend 

Minimum recruitment need:

- Top Level Goalkeeper
- Top Level Centre Half
- Two Top Level Midfielders
- Top Top Level Forwards

Delivered:
-Two Top Level Midfielders
- Possibly One Top Level Forward if Nkunku Delivers

Still room for all of that in the 1 billion plus a few talented 18 year olds

[Ham]

15 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

High. Chelsea supporter too. 

They won't be getting rid of Sancho with Antony going the Greenwood route 😬

[east lower]

18 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Given 1 our billion spend 

Minimum recruitment need:

- Top Level Goalkeeper
- Top Level Centre Half
- Two Top Level Midfielders
- Top Top Level Forwards

Delivered:
-Two Top Level Midfielders
- Possibly One Top Level Forward if Nkunku Delivers

Still room for all of that in the 1 billion plus a few talented 18 year olds

The goalkeeper one, I’d give them some grace on as they got thrown a curve-ball with Kepa deciding he fancied playing second-fiddle to the 🐍when he gets fit.

[east lower]

11 minutes ago, Ham said:

They won't be getting rid of Sancho with Antony going the Greenwood route 😬

If they’re consistent, then he’s gotta go. Assuming what she’s saying is unproven and no charges are brought to court (sarcasm/irony in that last bit).

[Ham]

4 minutes ago, east lower said:

If they’re consistent, then he’s gotta go. Assuming what she’s saying is unproven and no charges are brought to court (sarcasm/irony in that last bit).

Well there is said to be video and witness evidence together with some nasty injuries so........ 

[Max Fowler]

16 minutes ago, east lower said:

The goalkeeper one, I’d give them some grace on as they got thrown a curve-ball with Kepa deciding he fancied playing second-fiddle to the 🐍when he gets fit.

We decided to let Kepa go because we wanted him off the wage bill.

The point is, again, it's common football knowledge you sort the spine of your team out.

Of course our owners don't operate on common knowledge, or any knowledge at all.

Anyone could have worked out Kepa wasn't it - even though many on here defended him.

We've somehow gone backwards and ended up with Brighton's third choice GK.

[Ham]

9 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

We decided to let Kepa go because we wanted him off the wage bill.

The point is, again, it's common football knowledge you sort the spine of your team out.

Of course our owners don't operate on common knowledge, or any knowledge at all.

Anyone could have worked out Kepa wasn't it - even though many on here defended him.

We've somehow gone backwards and ended up with Brighton's third choice GK.

There's a really fine line between an elite goalkeeper and a very good goalkeeper and I don't believe that either Kepa or Sanchez are that bad at all. 

I checked some stats and found that Courtois and Allison actually conceded goals in football matches.

Nobody worries about that because the teams they play for score goals.