Transfer Talk Topic

[boratsbrother]

15 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

“There’s no such thing as beautiful football or ugly football. Just winning football” - Dennis Wise

Couldnt disagree more with that!

I can still remember a CL away game to Athletic. Jose Vs Someone at the peaks of their powers and  without doubt the most tedious, souless game I've seen in my life. So unwatchable that  I had to  turn over after an hour.

I would  pack up watching us if Simeone ever became our manager! Stone age football which would have zero chance of ever winning a title in league where the top teams go out home and away and try to take the game to the opposition. Teams who are not afraid of conceeding goals because their aim is to outscore the other team, not grind out mind rotting 1-0 wins 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by boratsbrother

[xceleryx]

3 hours ago, martin1905 said:

This is key.

We spent pretty much all season playing 4231 so basically having 4 attackers on the pitch plus a very creative Enzo. We all assumed the plan was to bring in Caicedo to allow Enzo more freedom to support the front 4 players. We looked very good in pre season and played some really nice football.

One injury to Nkunku, and it doesn't matter how important he is to the system, you just play someone else there, and we start playing 3 centre half's, 5 defenders, a full back at left wing and a centre half at left back. It's been absolutely disastrous with 4 points from 4 games, all very winnable games, and straight away Champions league qualification looks unlikely and Pochettino is under huge pressure. Pressure he has created all by himself.

It's very easy for those that say it's gonna take time and we are only 4 games in, they are literally stating the obvious and we are all aware of that. Doesn't change the fact that Pochettino has needlessly made the start of our season far more difficult than it needed to be and it could cost us dearly going forward.

I don't care if a manger has been here one day or 10 years you make decisions like he has and you put yourself under scrutiny.

I hear the people that lambast us for not scoring goals, same old same old they say, well when you start games with 2 attacking players on the pitch it's no real suprise. You wouldn't see Pep or Klopp or pretty much anyone else change their entire system because of an injury. You just play someone else and if that means playing kids then so be it. 

I thought Pochettino was better than this, I really did but I'm now hugely concerned about his ability to do the job here. Just look at Tottenham and the start they have had, they've done everything I expected us to do and are flying, full of confidence and the whole fan base is behind the manager. They are loving it.

We look like Graham Potter is still in charge. That's how bad these first 5 games have been and for someone that spends thousands and thousands of pounds every year going week in week out, home and away and all round Europe I feel I'm entitled to have a bit of a moan.

 

To play devils advocate here for a moment.

We've arguably been the better side in all four league games this season, converting chances has been the problem and it's not as if we're not creating anything either. While on the other hand we've been clinically punished down the other end when we've made a mistake.

I'd just about guarantee had we collected 10 points or so from those four games instead, no one would be saying boo about the system or team being fielded. It's only because we've been wasteful, an issue we've had in prior seasons, that such frustrations have been exacerbated. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 minute ago, boratsbrother said:

Couldnt disagree more with that!

I can still remember a CL away game to Athletic. Jose Vs Someone at the peaks of their powers and  without doubt the most tedious, souless game I've seen in my life. So unwatchable that  I had to  turn over after an hour. I would  pack up watching us if Someone ever became our manager! Stone age football which would have zero chance of ever winning a title in league where the top teams go out home and away and try to take the game to the opposition. Teams who are not afraid of conceeding goals because their aim is to outscore the other team, not grind out mind rotting 1-0 wins 

 

I didn’t say I agreed or disagreed - it’s what he said. Though I’d rather play badly and win more than we lose tbh 

[Morgs]

28 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Couldnt disagree more with that!

I can still remember a CL away game to Athletic. Jose Vs Someone at the peaks of their powers and  without doubt the most tedious, souless game I've seen in my life. So unwatchable that  I had to  turn over after an hour.

I would  pack up watching us if Simeone ever became our manager! Stone age football which would have zero chance of ever winning a title in league where the top teams go out home and away and try to take the game to the opposition. Teams who are not afraid of conceeding goals because their aim is to outscore the other team, not grind out mind rotting 1-0 wins 

 

I'll take a nasty, attritional, grinding 1-0 win over an entertaining 2-2 draw or 2-1 defeat every day of the week. 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Morgs

[McCreadie]

Slight tangent, but I would cancel all 1st team training at Cobham and do it at the Bridge until further notice, or at least until it starts to rain a lot. The strikers  need to get used to scoring goals in the exact place they are supposed to be scoring goals. Most visiting teams have players that have played at the Bridge more times than most of our players. If the crowd are not on it, it is literally like an away game. The surroundings are more alien to us than they are to the bulk of the opposition.

[martin1905]

2 hours ago, xceleryx said:

To play devils advocate here for a moment.

We've arguably been the better side in all four league games this season, converting chances has been the problem and it's not as if we're not creating anything either. While on the other hand we've been clinically punished down the other end when we've made a mistake.

I'd just about guarantee had we collected 10 points or so from those four games instead, no one would be saying boo about the system or team being fielded. It's only because we've been wasteful, an issue we've had in prior seasons, that such frustrations have been exacerbated. 

We were good against Liverpool for about an hour.

First half against West Ham we were good. Second half terrible.

Luton was Luton and wasn't very impressive considering just how bad they are. It was the absolute minimum we should expect.

Forest was disgraceful.

We have 4 points from 4 games and yes if we had 10 this argument wouldn't be happening but we haven't. 

If we were playing really well, Chilwell was at left back, Colwill centre half, had more than 2 attackers on the pitch this argument, regardless of results wouldn't be happening.

Not many expected instant success but we have a right to expect instant improvement on Potter and we haven't seen that. Your man Postecoglou and Emery at Villa have shown that it's not that difficult, with the right system and right training it is possible to improve, drastically, overnight. We had such a low level to start from it really wasn't that much to expect more, especially after pre season.

The international break, as much as I hate them, has come at just the right time. We start from scratch and go again against Bournemouth but he is under pressure already and he's bought it all on himself.

[Mark Kelly]

Nice photo of Winstanley and Stewart arriving at Cobham this morning 

[Miguelito07]

29 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

The international break, as much as I hate them, has come at just the right time. We start from scratch and go again against Bournemouth but he is under pressure already and he's bought it all on himself.

I am not sure the break has come at the right time. The majority of the players are off to their national sides and those that have stayed are either injured or coming back from injuries.

[Ham]

17 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Nice photo of Winstanley and Stewart arriving at Cobham this morning 

I think the general consensus before the forest result was that we'd had an outstanding transfer window. 

Add Nkunku and peak Reece James (head and shoulders better than Gusto) to the available squad and I'm certain we'd have had 10 points or more now. 

We've been massively unlucky since winning the CL in 21. 

I think the recruitment has been good to very good. 

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, Ham said:

I think the general consensus before the forest result was that we'd had an outstanding transfer window. 

Add Nkunku and peak Reece James (head and shoulders better than Gusto) to the available squad and I'm certain we'd have had 10 points or more now. 

We've been massively unlucky since winning the CL in 21. 

I think the recruitment has been good to very good. 

I think the outgoings have been handled very well and some of the newer players look OK , I would have liked a bit more experience to add to the kids so the jury for me , is still out.

[martin1905]

10 minutes ago, Miguelito07 said:

I am not sure the break has come at the right time. The majority of the players are off to their national sides and those that have stayed are either injured or coming back from injuries.

Maybe, but it gives Pochettino a couple of weeks to have a think about things.

If it wasn't happening and we were playing Bournemouth this weekend I could see the same line up as Forest.

[Miguelito07]

Just now, martin1905 said:

Maybe, but it gives Pochettino a couple of weeks to have a think about things.

If it wasn't happening and we were playing Bournemouth this weekend I could see the same line up as Forest.

true. BUT i can see the same line up as the Forest match...(unfortunately)

[Max Fowler]

13 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Got any factual sources to backup this claimed policy btw, or we just believing everything that comes out in the media now? 

From Matt law. Reliable Chelsea source!!!

[Max Fowler]

17 minutes ago, Ham said:

I think the general consensus before the forest result was that we'd had an outstanding transfer window. 

Add Nkunku and peak Reece James (head and shoulders better than Gusto) to the available squad and I'm certain we'd have had 10 points or more now. 

We've been massively unlucky since winning the CL in 21. 

I think the recruitment has been good to very good. 

There were a lot of concerns about experience though Ham. And they have come to bear.

[Ham]

3 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

There were a lot of concerns about experience though Ham. And they have come to bear.

As has previously been pointed out on here, we had an awful lot of experience in the squad over these past 18 months and they almost all downed tools. 

[ROTG]

4 hours ago, Ham said:

I think the general consensus before the forest result was that we'd had an outstanding transfer window. 

Add Nkunku and peak Reece James (head and shoulders better than Gusto) to the available squad and I'm certain we'd have had 10 points or more now. 

We've been massively unlucky since winning the CL in 21. 

I think the recruitment has been good to very good. 

Ham. 
look at who they have brought in.

their common denominator is on the wish list of ex-employers or buy from their ex-employers That sound smart until you see the level of the ex- employers. 
 

Its been bloody obvious from day one, except for those wearing rose tinted glasses. 

[Max Fowler]

2 hours ago, Ham said:

As has previously been pointed out on here, we had an awful lot of experience in the squad over these past 18 months and they almost all downed tools. 

I just think that's a bit of a cop out.

By that logic we should have sold Sterling too and not bought Nkunku - only focused on getting 18 year olds and under.

Where would that have got us?!

[Ham]

28 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I just think that's a bit of a cop out.

By that logic we should have sold Sterling too and not bought Nkunku - only focused on getting 18 year olds and under.

Where would that have got us?!

Strawman City, that's where. 

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, Ham said:

Strawman City

Is that not where the club is at the moment.  
Maybe mid point somewhere in December after matches agains the current big club is a better time to evaluate what direction the club is going. 
 

I am all in to be proved wrong, however after 4 games there is not a lot support that.  
 

for the amount of money spent, Injuries excuse is a no no. 
 

over to you. 

[Ham]

59 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Is that not where the club is at the moment.  
Maybe mid point somewhere in December after matches agains the current big club is a better time to evaluate what direction the club is going. 
 

I am all in to be proved wrong, however after 4 games there is not a lot support that.  
 

for the amount of money spent, Injuries excuse is a no no. 
 

over to you. 

Ok. Injuries excuse is valid. 

This might take a while.  

[xceleryx]

13 hours ago, martin1905 said:

We were good against Liverpool for about an hour.

First half against West Ham we were good. Second half terrible.

Luton was Luton and wasn't very impressive considering just how bad they are. It was the absolute minimum we should expect.

Forest was disgraceful.

We have 4 points from 4 games and yes if we had 10 this argument wouldn't be happening but we haven't. 

If we were playing really well, Chilwell was at left back, Colwill centre half, had more than 2 attackers on the pitch this argument, regardless of results wouldn't be happening.

Not many expected instant success but we have a right to expect instant improvement on Potter and we haven't seen that. Your man Postecoglou and Emery at Villa have shown that it's not that difficult, with the right system and right training it is possible to improve, drastically, overnight. We had such a low level to start from it really wasn't that much to expect more, especially after pre season.

The international break, as much as I hate them, has come at just the right time. We start from scratch and go again against Bournemouth but he is under pressure already and he's bought it all on himself.

So to confirm here, it looks like you agree that we've been the better side for large portion of our matches playing in the manner we have, with the team selection Poch has opted for.

It's not been perfect, we've had our less desirable moments but by large we've played well in these games to walk away with more points then we have. 

Now that we've established this, it's completely disingenuous to say we've not improved on what we displayed under Potter. We look far more organised for one, we're moving the ball around better, and we've played some nice football at times when we have gone forward. This is also reflected from a metric standpoint where we've created the most big chances in the league, held the most possession, sit second behind Man City for accurate passes, top 5 in accurate long balls, second for accurate crosses, 5th for most shots, 3rd for most successful dribbles and so on. The glaring issue has been putting the ball in the net when we get into these good areas, highlighted by being 13th for shots on target. 

Subsequently, we've also been punished down the other end when we have made mistakes. That's what happens when you aren't clinical, the margins become finer and the risk of dropping points increases. 

Literally all our problems would be solved if we could score goals from the plethora of chances we have created. 

And sure, that's been a fundamental problem for us in recent years but unlike what we're seeing at the moment the rest of the football was a complete shambles on top. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by xceleryx
fixed some spelling

[xceleryx]

12 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

From Matt law. Reliable Chelsea source!!!

And also been proven to be unreliable. 

Got anything else with a bit of genuine substance? 

[ROTG]

31 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

So to confirm here, it looks like you agree that we've been the better side for large portion of our matches playing in the manner we have, with the team selection Poch has opted for.

It's not been perfect, we've had our less desirable moments but by large we've played well in these games to walk away with more points then we have. 

Now that we've established this, it's completely disingenuous to say we've not improved on what we displayed under Potter. We look far more organised for one, we're moving the ball around better, and we've played some nice football at times when we have gone forward. This is also reflected from a metric standpoint where we've created the most big chances in the league, held the most possession, sit second behind Man City for accurate passes, top 5 in accurate long balls, second for accurate crosses, 5th for most shots, 3rd for most successful dribbles and so on. The glaring issue has been putting the ball in the net when we get into these good areas, highlighted by being 13th for shots on target. 

Subsequently, we've also been punished down the other end when we have made mistakes. That's what happens when you aren't clinical, the margins become finer and the risk of dropping points increases. 

Literally all our problems would be solved if we could score goals from the plethora of chances we have created. 

And sure, that's been a fundamental problem for us in recent years but unlike what we're seeing at the moment the rest of the football was a complete shambles on top. 

I thought stats and metrics were nonsense?

[kev61]

48 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

So to confirm here, it looks like you agree that we've been the better side for large portion of our matches playing in the manner we have, with the team selection Poch has opted for.

It's not been perfect, we've had our less desirable moments but by large we've played well in these games to walk away with more points then we have. 

Now that we've established this, it's completely disingenuous to say we've not improved on what we displayed under Potter. We look far more organised for one, we're moving the ball around better, and we've played some nice football at times when we have gone forward. This is also reflected from a metric standpoint where we've created the most big chances in the league, held the most possession, sit second behind Man City for accurate passes, top 5 in accurate long balls, second for accurate crosses, 5th for most shots, 3rd for most successful dribbles and so on. The glaring issue has been putting the ball in the net when we get into these good areas, highlighted by being 13th for shots on target. 

Subsequently, we've also been punished down the other end when we have made mistakes. That's what happens when you aren't clinical, the margins become finer and the risk of dropping points increases. 

Literally all our problems would be solved if we could score goals from the plethora of chances we have created. 

And sure, that's been a fundamental problem for us in recent years but unlike what we're seeing at the moment the rest of the football was a complete shambles on top. 

What you fail to see or ignore is we have spent an enormous amount of money on players.

Yes we have only played 4 games but you would think instead of making baby steps in improvement we would have at least a few world class players that stand out by now.

Yes we've had a few injuries but that doesn't excuse the same high possession low scoring drivel we've become accustomed to.

We seem to be buying players like people bought toilet rolls in the pandemic.I see no logic in what the owners are doing, and I'm losing faith in what Poch is doing.

Edited September 6, 2023 by kev61

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, kev61 said:

What you fail to see or ignore is we have spent an enormous amount of money on players.

Yes we have only played 4 games but you would think instead of making baby steps in improvement we would have at least a few world class players that stand out by now.

Yes we've had a few injuries but that doesn't excuse the same high possession low scoring drivel we've become accustomed to.

We seem to be buying players like people bought toilet rolls in the pandemic.I see no logic in what the owners are doing, and I'm losing faith in what Poch is doing.

Not failing to see or ignoring the money we've spent, Kev. I've fully acknowledge we've spent a lot, but there's also context that needs to be applied to that spending. People just see the overall figure and presume it should equate to us being able to challenge Man City for example. Not all spending is equal, a common concept some still find difficult to understand. 

Improvement is subjective to a degree. As outlined in my prior post we're clearly an improved side (so far at least, still early days I admit) from where we were last season, something that's also backed up across several metrics. Our achilles heel remains our struggle for goals and converting the chances we do create - an issue we've not addressed properly and admittedly could've done more to remedy. 

We, of all clubs, should know that spending on world class players doesn't automatically equate to success or improvement either. I don't need to rattle off the array of names who've all come in for big money, on big deals, with big reputations over the years and gone on to look like they'd struggle in League One. Leaving us in an arguably tougher hole to dig ourselves out of trying to offload high cost players. 

The way I see it is like this. Yes, we've spent a lot but we've put in into a specific demographic of player by investing heavily into young players that have potential to grow, some of which are at a higher immediate level than others. It may not raise our immediate level, but with time and development could be a far better side for it. This can be taken as laying down a foundation where we end up with a good nucleus of a side. Moving forward we can then potentially expand on that by then adding those one or two more equipped pieces in certain areas that'll help further raise the ceiling of the side long term, but also in the short. As addressed in another post in this thread from a few days ago when talking with @Sleeping Dave, it's easier and more practical to add one or two "star" players to an already exisiting side then it is to try and build a team of stars alone.

If we hit on a couple of these younger talents we're laughing, those that may not end up making it here - more pointed towards those we've picked up in that sort of £20m region some are considering as "fodder", then we're in a good position to profit of those types of players given their lower purchase cost and the way football inflation works. Not to say every transfer made has been good, the Mudryk one for example where we no doubt overpaid (£60m upfront, the £88m or whatever is in total all hinges on bonuses), is looking like one we'll need to swallow - although it's still early days yet and Mudryk does need to actively play more outside of 10-15 min cameos at the end of games where sides are sitting back with 10 men behind the ball. 

I'm just not going to be pessimistic at this point in time. We add a more proven GK, a CF, and maybe another attacking player on top and that has the potential to elevate us even further. We have a good base, some highly talented young players, and a decent manager that has a good track record of nurturing players. If we're in this same position in another 3-4 years time, then sure I'll likely be singing a different tune but we're not there yet. There's still plenty of water that needs to pass under the bridge first

Edited September 6, 2023 by xceleryx
Fixed spelling, I really gotta proof read shit before posting.