Transfer Talk Topic

[kev61]

10 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Meaning he doesn’t think we have the quality he expected? If so, hard to argue with that. If I’m Fernandez I’m kicking myself for moving to Chelsea. It’ll be years before we will challenge for anything meaningful. 

 

That's what you get when you pay a fortune for a player that is unproven in any league.

Who the feck does he think he is?.

We pay a fortune for a player and they have the audacity to question their pay masters in public.

[Sleeping Dave]

8 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Forum logic:

"We don't need big money strikers to score... AND we're missing Nkunku! That's why we can't score!"

I can’t work out if you’re being sarcastic or if you are serious. Personally I think it’s pretty obvious that you don’t win a title with a squad that’s 22 years on average and doesn’t have any strikers that can score. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

7 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Matt's football knowledge is so out of date it's no wonder his references are too.

When Boehly put 4-4-3 up on the whiteboard Matt was like, "But football's not played with only 10 players, Todd!"

Evidence, please!😁

[Sciatika]

6 hours ago, DannyLB said:

We live in a time where own fanbases slaughter each other and the clubs they support and are amicable with opposing fans. It’s strange and I find myself often wanting opinions from non-Chelsea fans as often times those views are more balanced. 

I have been listening to "London is Blue" podcast from time to time lately simply because they critically analyse the games and performances while rejecting OTT knee-jerk reactions. I never thought I would get football analysis from Americans. 

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, Sleeping Dave said:

I can’t work out if you’re being sarcastic or if you are serious. Personally I think it’s pretty obvious that you don’t win a title with a squad that’s 22 years on average and doesn’t have any strikers that can score. 

very Alan Hansen 😀

But you are spot on. 👍

[ROTG]

13 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more, bitching and moaning won’t change the situation we are in. Only hard work and stellar attitudes will do that. 

For all the nice football Pep has City playing I don’t think that is what had made them winners. It’s his mentality and hunger that rubs off on the rest. We need a bastard of a manager who can still get along with the players but who positively influences them to be winners. Jose’s methods doesn’t work on this generation, you need more finesse. Perhaps Poch has it, I certainly hope so! 

Would be interesting to see how the team performs without Enzo in the side.

 

Just a thought.

[Morgs]

17 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

Sure, there are games where I enjoy seeing my team having  scrap out an ugly 1-0 win or even a 0-0 draw. But watching turgid, grinding football week after week, year after year just to see my team win? Simply got better things to do with my time than willingly spend it being bored stiff over and over again. But as I said in my previous post, that kind of football  will not get a team anywhere fast in the premier League in 2023!

Au contraire mate - that kind of football will get you at least six points a season. From Chelsea. 

[chiswickblue]

2 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

I can’t work out if you’re being sarcastic or if you are serious. Personally I think it’s pretty obvious that you don’t win a title with a squad that’s 22 years on average and doesn’t have any strikers that can score. 

I don't think we're trying to win the league yet! Maybe in a season or two, but this is a long-term project with many teething problems anticipated. Last season was obviously seen as a write-off, and this season is going to be bumpy - but hopefully ending with European qualification rather than mid-table ignominity.

[ROTG]

32 minutes ago, Morgs said:

Au contraire mate

Good to see Del Trotter contributing to the forum. 

[xceleryx]

8 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

We'll have to see on Mudryk. I'm open to him proving me wrong but I don't think we should start him, unless Poch does and then I back Poch all the way.

Maybe we're quibbling over words here. "Experience". "Proven quality".

It's a silly question to ask "who is a 100% guarantee?" signing because noone is.

It's really simple. We should have a few more players in our squad who are not youngsters who need to develop.

Caicedo is not a youngster who needs to develop - he is ready - and yet the same time he is not 28.

Even if it's not official policy to sign under 25's, that's what we've done and in fact we've mainly signed 22's and under.

I believe Matt Law's quote but have no more evidence so we can drop that.

The point is - we have the youngest squad in the league. Period.

Many of our "experienced" players are defenders (Sanchez, Disasi, Silva, James, Chilwell).
God knows what our average age is without them in the squad.

And there is still an irony that you're missing, that I know others are silently seeing:

You complain because we lost Nkunku and his quality.
Why don't we have more quality up front to spread the load?
To mitigate against injuries AND when we know he spent a lot of last season injured.
AND when we know scoring goals has been our biggest weakness for years.

Heck - even one more "top quality" forward signing is not too much to ask, is it?

When we have spent so much money elsewhere. 

As Pochettino said in preseason:

"We need to be careful. When you play for Chelsea, people expect to win. Yes, we have many young but we need experience also".

How is he feeling now???

If Mudryk  doesn't get starts we'll never actually know how he'll truly be, limited cameos off the bench against teams sitting back tell us pretty much nothing. Again, it's much like the Salah situation we had. He needed to play, when he did he grew and the rest is history. 

I'm not missing any irony, I've expressed we've needed more quality upfront as I stressed to you the other day re getting someone like Vlahovic in for example. That hasn't changed, and hopefully we'll add to the attack with a bit more quality when a suitable option presents itself. 

However, it's easier said than done given the lack of actual quality forwards available or fit what we're needing. There's probably a good likelihood we'll explore the idea of Toney in January, whether he's good enough will depend on who you speak with I suppose. Looking around elsewhere and there aren't many options that stand out or aren't going to have us paying completely out the ass for. Maybe we'll hold off and address it next summer, where someone like Oshimen for example will be entering the final 12 months of his contract IIRC and may be more obtainable. 

But yes, in short we do still need more quality up top, I've acknowledge this also. 

[Max Fowler]

7 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

I can’t work out if you’re being sarcastic or if you are serious. Personally I think it’s pretty obvious that you don’t win a title with a squad that’s 22 years on average and doesn’t have any strikers that can score. 

Quite, Dave.

That’s why I’m saying it’s ironic that people are complaining Nkunku is out. Because those same people are saying “we don’t need any more experienced goalscorers!”

And yet pinning all our failings on the fact our one experienced, top quality goalscorer is injured.

Maybe we could have bought one or two more in case he got injured?

[Max Fowler]

4 hours ago, chiswickblue said:

I don't think we're trying to win the league yet! Maybe in a season or two, but this is a long-term project with many teething problems anticipated. Last season was obviously seen as a write-off, and this season is going to be bumpy - but hopefully ending with European qualification rather than mid-table ignominity.

Does anyone seriously still think we will get Europe? 

[boratsbrother]

45 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Does anyone seriously still think we will get Europe? 

Certainly not top four or even close to it. Not too bothered about Euro League qualification as I think it brings as many negatives as positives with all those Thursday games.  Also pretty certain City, Liverpool and Arsenal will have 3 of the top 4 locked in for the next couple of years.

In the meantime, what I want to see from us over the next couple of years is a more attacking, progressive style of football. Perhaps more importantly half a dozen or more of our young players will show real signs that they will be good enough to form the backbone of the team for the years ahead in helping is become title challengers again. We should expect the majority of the new players signed won't be the level we need but half a dozen plus James and Chilly would be a  good percentage of successes imho.  I think that is TB and co's plan and hope for the next few years and from here on in the mega spending is over and we just look to add a couple more quality signings each summer.

Anykind of success over the next couple of years would be a big bonus but we really do have to be patient this time and think about the years ahead, not just this season or next.

 

[McCreadie]

52 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Does anyone seriously still think we will get Europe? 

Yes.

Top 4 no, but I was always with the 5th-7th realists anyway.

4 games in, where we have been the better team in each game is not the time to panic.

[Max Fowler]

9 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Certainly not top four or even close to it. Not too bothered about Euro League qualification as I think it brings as many negatives as positives with all those Thursday games.  Also pretty certain City, Liverpool and Arsenal will have 3 of the top 4 locked in for the next couple of years.

In the meantime, what I want to see from us over the next couple of years is a more attacking, progressive style of football. Perhaps more importantly half a dozen or more of our young players will show real signs that they will be good enough to form the backbone of the team for the years ahead in helping is become title challengers again. We should expect the majority of the new players signed won't be the level we need but half a dozen plus James and Chilly would be a  good percentage of successes imho.  I think that is TB and co's plan and hope for the next few years and from here on in the mega spending is over and we just look to add a couple more quality signings each summer.

Anykind of success over the next couple of years would be a big bonus but we really do have to be patient this time and think about the years ahead, not just this season or next.

 

I would also prefer if we landed just outside of Europe - as long as we can afford it financially.
(unless we can get a CL spot)

[Max Fowler]

4 hours ago, xceleryx said:

If Mudryk  doesn't get starts we'll never actually know how he'll truly be, limited cameos off the bench against teams sitting back tell us pretty much nothing. Again, it's much like the Salah situation we had. He needed to play, when he did he grew and the rest is history. 

I'm not missing any irony, I've expressed we've needed more quality upfront as I stressed to you the other day re getting someone like Vlahovic in for example. That hasn't changed, and hopefully we'll add to the attack with a bit more quality when a suitable option presents itself. 

However, it's easier said than done given the lack of actual quality forwards available or fit what we're needing. There's probably a good likelihood we'll explore the idea of Toney in January, whether he's good enough will depend on who you speak with I suppose. Looking around elsewhere and there aren't many options that stand out or aren't going to have us paying completely out the ass for. Maybe we'll hold off and address it next summer, where someone like Oshimen for example will be entering the final 12 months of his contract IIRC and may be more obtainable. 

But yes, in short we do still need more quality up top, I've acknowledge this also. 

Well, I feel you're moving the goalposts a little but that's okay.

I also admit there's not a ton of elite centre-forwards available, just to be clear I am also including wide forwards and wingers where we look woefully inexperienced. 

To say we only have one winger right now who you would count on to do anything significant in a game is no overstatement, and has been pointed out he's the one winger who was slated last season.

Let's be clear though, it's not my job to pick out elite wingers and forwards - it's the club's. And I refuse to believe that those players aren't available - it's a clear policy that we will prioritize youth.

Personally I do think we should go all out for Toney in January - a proper Premier League striker and penalty specialist that we lack.

[DannyLB]

25 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Does anyone seriously still think we will get Europe? 

Yes. Why shouldn't I believe?! Because of four matches? So many twists and turns into a season. What else can I, as a fan, hold on to if not hope? 

[Sciatika]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

Personally I do think we should go all out for Toney in January - a proper Premier League striker and penalty specialist that we lack.

Who are we going to sell to fund it? 

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, DannyLB said:

Yes. Why shouldn't I believe?! Because of four matches? So many twists and turns into a season. What else can I, as a fan, hold on to if not hope? 

A bit of realism mightn't go amiss. I presume, for example, you don't think we're going to win the league.

[DannyLB]

6 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

A bit of realism mightn't go amiss. I presume, for example, you don't think we're going to win the league.

I’m hopeful and positive but not deluded. We are years away from a title challenge. 
 

The  more immediate thing I’d like to see is a good run of results, displaying some sort of decent form and go from there. 

[Sleeping Dave]

5 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Quite, Dave.

That’s why I’m saying it’s ironic that people are complaining Nkunku is out. Because those same people are saying “we don’t need any more experienced goalscorers!”

And yet pinning all our failings on the fact our one experienced, top quality goalscorer is injured.

Maybe we could have bought one or two more in case he got injured?

I think we needed one or two regardless of the injury on Nkunku. Look at Man C, Arsenal and Liverpool. They have multiple goal scorers in their sides and teams like Brentford/Newcastle/Brighton does as well. 

The more goals you can add the better team you will be. Games that are hard-fought draws or losses immediately translates to wins if you have them. Of course, players like Jackson, Nkunku, Mudryk, Madueke, Palmer and Sterling may become players that scores lots of goals. But right now they are not. 

[xceleryx]

8 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Well, I feel you're moving the goalposts a little but that's okay.

I also admit there's not a ton of elite centre-forwards available, just to be clear I am also including wide forwards and wingers where we look woefully inexperienced. 

To say we only have one winger right now who you would count on to do anything significant in a game is no overstatement, and has been pointed out he's the one winger who was slated last season.

Let's be clear though, it's not my job to pick out elite wingers and forwards - it's the club's. And I refuse to believe that those players aren't available - it's a clear policy that we will prioritize youth.

Personally I do think we should go all out for Toney in January - a proper Premier League striker and penalty specialist that we lack.

I presumed you were including wide forwards/wingers within the "forward" scope, similar still applies in that the talent pool is fairly shallow when it comes to stand out candidates that aren't either already signed up elsewhere or approaching the back end of their careers. Those that would be appealing still come with the same caveat of hefty price tags and no guarantees. 

A big part of why we're going down this young talent route is because of the way the market is. The talent pool has generally shrunk, there's more sides fighting for those same players, prices are subsequently being driven up, and you're not necessarily getting greater guarantees of it working out. There's still the odd value for money signing to be found in right circumstances, take Harvey Barnes or Maddison this summer for example, but by large the nature of the market has shifted to a point where it can't operate in the same way it did maybe 5, 10 or 15 years ago. 

We'll lose Jackson to the ACON so it's going to be important to get another striker in during January IMO. Toney will somewhat fit that bill, although not entirely sold on whether he's truly good enough or not, and it may hinge on price, but there's certainly worse options out there. 

[ROTG]

16 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Toney will somewhat fit that bill, although not entirely sold on whether he's truly good enough or not, and it may hinge on price, but there's certainly worse options out there. 

Not sure that is a wise move, especially when you take into account he would have been out of competitive football for 9 months and reality is he will take time to get back to any kind of fitness and form to be at the level. The club cannot afford another Mudryk or Cucurella. 

Also Toney would be another mid team recruitment gamble. 

[kev61]

11 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Does anyone seriously still think we will get Europe? 

We might but I wouldn't money on it.Our new owners look clueless.I said before if people like Enzo looks unhappy their contract will mean nothing if the likes of City or Madrid come knocking and that goes for any player that is unhappy.

It looks like he is already unhappy if rumours are to be believed(which I don't)it wouldn't surprise me.

[xceleryx]

11 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Not sure that is a wise move, especially when you take into account he would have been out of competitive football for 9 months and reality is he will take time to get back to any kind of fitness and form to be at the level. The club cannot afford another Mudryk or Cucurella. 

Also Toney would be another mid team recruitment gamble. 

Might just be a situation of being the best of a bad bunch. He'd not have to settle into the league, the country or the football, so even though he won't have the match fitness in him the adjustment period is still going to be shorter than that of trying to bring someone else in from abroad. 

If the choice was Broja or Toney, I'd be taking the latter every day of the week. But we'll see what the market has to offer come January, maybe something else will come along that'll fit the bill or at a minimum tie us over until the summer.