Transfer Talk Topic

[Max Fowler]

34 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

I presumed you were including wide forwards/wingers within the "forward" scope, similar still applies in that the talent pool is fairly shallow when it comes to stand out candidates that aren't either already signed up elsewhere or approaching the back end of their careers. Those that would be appealing still come with the same caveat of hefty price tags and no guarantees. 

A big part of why we're going down this young talent route is because of the way the market is. The talent pool has generally shrunk, there's more sides fighting for those same players, prices are subsequently being driven up, and you're not necessarily getting greater guarantees of it working out. There's still the odd value for money signing to be found in right circumstances, take Harvey Barnes or Maddison this summer for example, but by large the nature of the market has shifted to a point where it can't operate in the same way it did maybe 5, 10 or 15 years ago. 

We'll lose Jackson to the ACON so it's going to be important to get another striker in during January IMO. Toney will somewhat fit that bill, although not entirely sold on whether he's truly good enough or not, and it may hinge on price, but there's certainly worse options out there. 

Ferran Torres, Oli Watkins, Raphinha.

There are some options for you, Mr Boehly!

We needed to drop 80+ million on a statement forward option.

Given the market Oshimen should have been an even clearer signing from us.

150 million would have been doable at the beginning of the window.

Instead we've got Disas(t)i and Ugo-chuckuoutonloansoon.

In January our priorities should be 1) OSHIMEN 2) TONEY 3) EVAN FERGUSON

 

[xceleryx]

3 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Ferran Torres, Oli Watkins, Raphinha.

There are some options for you, Mr Boehly!

We needed to drop 80+ million on a statement forward option.

Given the market Oshimen should have been an even clearer signing from us.

150 million would have been doable at the beginning of the window.

Instead we've got Disas(t)i and Ugo-chuckuoutonloansoon.

In January our priorities should be 1) OSHIMEN 2) TONEY 3) EVAN FERGUSON

 

Can't tell if these are serious suggestions or you just taking the piss? 

We dropped £90m on Lukaku a couple seasons ago and how's that panned out? We dropped £50m on Torres in years prior. £30 odd million on Shevchenko before that. Dropping a wad of cash on a "statement" signing doesn't equal problem solved. We need the right profile of player over anything else, irrespective of price point.

What part of Oshimen was never leaving Napoli are you still not comprehending? The man who literally dictates his future has firmly stated €200m wouldn't get you more than his left foot. Oshimen was never a possibility, end of story. 

[kev61]

I hear a lot of people saying we needed a couple of 'marquee ' signings - like who?

Do we not have them in Caicedo and Enzo? - I get it that 100mil+ doesn't get you what it used to!.

We could have learned from PSG.Paying silly money doesn't equate to having a successful team.In fact it creates discord among players if you don't get it right.

Can you name one player in the Man City team that flopped - granted they have spent a fortune but it was a fortune well spent.

[Max Fowler]

2 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Can't tell if these are serious suggestions or you just taking the piss? 

We dropped £90m on Lukaku a couple seasons ago and how's that panned out? We dropped £50m on Torres in years prior. £30 odd million on Shevchenko before that. Dropping a wad of cash on a "statement" signing doesn't equal problem solved. We need the right profile of player over anything else, irrespective of price point.

What part of Oshimen was never leaving Napoli are you still not comprehending? The man who literally dictates his future has firmly stated €200m wouldn't get you more than his left foot. Oshimen was never a possibility, end of story. 

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

I think 150 million would have got him at the beginning of the window. 200 comment was at the end for the Saudis. 

Price tag was always rumoured to be 150 months ago - maybe the Saudis have changed the market.

With the right planning we could have landed him if he wanted to join.

You have made some excellent points but we have left ourselves short and it deserves scrutiny.

I would have definitely taken Ferran, Watkins and even Raphinha ahead of where we are today.

But yes - now I think we should steal a march on Evan Ferguson even though he's young.

 

 

 

[Max Fowler]

1 minute ago, kev61 said:

I hear a lot of people saying we needed a couple of 'marquee ' signings - like who?

Do we not have them in Caicedo and Enzo? - I get it that 100mil+ doesn't get you what it used to!.

We could have learned from PSG.Paying silly money doesn't equate to having a successful team.In fact it creates discord among players if you don't get it right.

Can you name one player in the Man City team that flopped - granted they have spent a fortune but it was a fortune well spent.

Yeah but they had the marquee signing of Haaland the year before and it won them the treble.

Okay Haaland is not available.

All we're saying is when you spend all your money on defensive midfielders, don't complain when you can't score!

[kev61]

40 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Yeah but they had the marquee signing of Haaland the year before and it won them the treble.

Okay Haaland is not available.

All we're saying is when you spend all your money on defensive midfielders, don't complain when you can't score!

Haaland is an exception.There seems a lot more thought that goes into Citys signings.

We have owners that provide the money and think they know best in recruitment - it is a recipe  for disaster.

We need attacking midfielders not defensive ones.we also need to have wide players.

Mudryk speed is wasted.He is a much better player than CHO.Get him to stay wide and take on defenders don't complicate things.

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Michael Tucker
Offensive comment removed

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

I think 150 million would have got him at the beginning of the window. 200 comment was at the end for the Saudis. 

Price tag was always rumoured to be 150 months ago - maybe the Saudis have changed the market.

With the right planning we could have landed him if he wanted to join.

You have made some excellent points but we have left ourselves short and it deserves scrutiny.

I would have definitely taken Ferran, Watkins and even Raphinha ahead of where we are today.

But yes - now I think we should steal a march on Evan Ferguson even though he's young.

The £150m was also the figure branded by English press with no real substance, ADL was always fairly vague outside of the more recent €200m comment about being enough to get his left foot. 

"He said: "I have said for a while that Osimhen has to stay. Then, if an offer came in that I could not refuse for the good of Napoli, then we would consider it, as is only natural." - This was ADL heading into the summer where there was a two year extension on the table for Oshimen to sign. 

I'd have been highly surprised if De Laurentiis seriously entertained selling his crown jewel this summer. 

Watkins is the best of the three listed, but the money required to obtain him would well exceed his quality level. It could easily end up another Declan Rice situation. 

Evan Ferguson looks talented but far too easily to call just yet, much less to be completely pants by Brighton in another transfer window. I could see the meltdown people would have by us signing someone else from them. The only player I'd want us going back in for any time soon would be Mitoma, he's an absolute baller.

[Mark Kelly]

4 hours ago, kev61 said:

I hear a lot of people saying we needed a couple of 'marquee ' signings - like who?

 

Every circus needs a big top 

[Sciatika]

Clowns perform there

[thevelourfog]

I think we might have to start considering that spending loads of money is much, much closer to being the problem than it is the solution and something we need more of.

I do have to admire anyone who thinks signing a striker after one amazing breakout season (and admittedly a thoroughly decent career previous) on a huge deal would end in anything other than a) immediate long term injury, b) 6 goals across the season, half in an early season League Cup game against a League 2 team, or c) both.

[boratsbrother]

6 hours ago, kev61 said:

I hear a lot of people saying we needed a couple of 'marquee ' signings - like who?

Do we not have them in Caicedo and Enzo? - I get it that 100mil+ doesn't get you what it used to!.

 

Even by today's ludicrously inflated fees, Caicedo is not remotely close to what used to be classed as a marque signing. We have been absolutely rinsed yet again for a water carrying midfield  player who is no better on the ball than Gallagher. A truly horrendous signing for the money we have paid for him.

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

Even by today's ludicrously inflated fees, Caicedo is not remotely close to what used to be classed as a marque signing. We have been absolutely rinsed yet again for a water carrying midfield  player who is no better on the ball than Gallagher. A truly horrendous signing for the money we have paid for him.

That's modern football for you. 

If you gander at the top transfers over the last few seasons very few probably fit into that marquee signing bracket. There's a lot of money being spent on younger talent, granted some may turn out to be marquee players down the line should they develop (Haaland/Bellingham being exceptions).

[My Blood Is Blue]

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

That's modern football for you. 

If you gander at the top transfers over the last few seasons very few probably fit into that marquee signing bracket. There's a lot of money being spent on younger talent, granted some may turn out to be marquee players down the line should they develop (Haaland/Bellingham being exceptions).

Yep. I've said before that the pool of TOP talent is so much smaller than it used to be. Gone are the days when almost all the top teams would all have 3/4 proper elite players in them.

[Max Fowler]

32 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Yep. I've said before that the pool of TOP talent is so much smaller than it used to be. Gone are the days when almost all the top teams would all have 3/4 proper elite players in them.

I do agree partly - IMO must be something to do with kids on their phones, social media etc.

But city definitely have 3 elite players - I think Liverpool do with Van Dijk, Alisson and Salah and Arsenal do with Odegaard, Saka, and Rice (for today's standards)

[Max Fowler]

7 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

Even by today's ludicrously inflated fees, Caicedo is not remotely close to what used to be classed as a marque signing. We have been absolutely rinsed yet again for a water carrying midfield  player who is no better on the ball than Gallagher. A truly horrendous signing for the money we have paid for him.

I honestly think Caicedo will turn out to be an unbelievable signing, as long as we can get the team playing around him.
Think how valuable Kante was for us (also called "water carrying" by Tuchel).

For me the point is more squad make up -

We somehow spent over 200 million on first team defensive midfielders this summer and only 75 million on attackers.

Considering our biggest problem is scoring, this makes no sense.

[My Blood Is Blue]

30 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I do agree partly - IMO must be something to do with kids on their phones, social media etc.

But city definitely have 3 elite players - I think Liverpool do with Van Dijk, Alisson and Salah and Arsenal do with Odegaard, Saka, and Rice (for today's standards)

I would disagree with Van Dijk personally and I'm not sure I'd put those Arsenal players in the elite bracket either, maybe Saka, but not the other 2, not yet anyway. 

My usual caveat I make to my original comment is that it is possible I'm just less aware of all the players around the world compared to 10 years ago or so, I definitely don't watch as much 'other' football as I used to, but it just feels like this generation of players have been over coached and it's now much more about intricate tactics on the field than it used to be.

Maybe I'm just getting old... @chara any room in that OG club?

[Ham]

46 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I do agree partly - IMO must be something to do with kids on their phones, social media etc.

But city definitely have 3 elite players - I think Liverpool do with Van Dijk, Alisson and Salah and Arsenal do with Odegaard, Saka, and Rice (for today's standards)

No way is Rice elite.  It's a media fallacy. 

43 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

We somehow spent over 200 million on first team defensive midfielders this summer and only 75 million on attackers.

Considering our biggest problem is scoring, this makes no sense.

We got rid of Jorginho, Kante, Kovacic and RLC! 

 

[chara]

14 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

I would disagree with Van Dijk personally and I'm not sure I'd put those Arsenal players in the elite bracket either, maybe Saka, but not the other 2, not yet anyway. 

My usual caveat I make to my original comment is that it is possible I'm just less aware of all the players around the world compared to 10 years ago or so, I definitely don't watch as much 'other' football as I used to, but it just feels like this generation of players have been over coached and it's now much more about intricate tactics on the field than it used to be.

Maybe I'm just getting old... @chara any room in that OG club?

Sam..there is room every room I have for you!

[Mark Kelly]

52 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I do agree partly - IMO must be something to do with kids on their phones, social media etc.

But city definitely have 3 elite players - I think Liverpool do with Van Dijk, Alisson and Salah and Arsenal do with Odegaard, Saka, and Rice (for today's standards)

You've unwittingly hit on why were in such a pickle with this post. 

None of those players are elite, the only one I'd consider is possibly Salah. 

They're good players 

Years ago we had two teams worth of players as good if not better than all of them 

Now, on current levels we have Enzo. 

All the others wouldn't have got a game for us in Jose's day. 

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, Ham said:

No way is Rice elite.  It's a media fallacy. 

I've always said Rice is overrated, but I do think it has more to do with the standard of player out there currently than himself - why he is so far up the pecking order.

[Max Fowler]

Personally - I think the real drop off vs 20 years ago has been among Italians, Germans, Spanish etc. 

Italian clubs in particular used to be full of monsters, so did Madrid, Barca, Bayern a bit later.

While the standard of football globally has decreased, the Premier League has only got more competitive.

Okay we aren't the same as what we used to be, but I still don't think we could beat City from last season.

That's why England are so much more competitive now.

Not only are Saka, Rice, etc. great talents, they are no longer competing against the Gattusos, the Robbens, the Tottis, the Figos, the Ballacks of this world.

English players have never had so much quality compared to the game as a whole, and never has the Premier League been stronger compared to the other European leagues.

Alisson is 100% elite, one of the top two keepers in the world right now. Alright Van Dijk is a bit past it.

[Sleeping Dave]

Interesting discussion on elite now vs then. Personally I do not burly that theory… Well, probably not in the same way as some of you mean to express it. 

In the past, there would be a much wider variation between the players. Since basically 90% of all elite (read players playing in the big leagues) have gone through the same sort of education, with the same type of blueprint, the variation becomes smaller. Hence, the top players are perceived as being less dominant, not because they are worse but because the general level is higher. We have simply raised the lower threshold. 

Players are also much better tactically today and most have fantastic engines. The game today is more about having a team properly gelled into a style and players who got together than individual quality. There are a few exceptions like Messi, Ronaldo in the last two decades and likely players like Haaland, Mbappe and Bellingham in the present. Personally I think the heydays of football was the 90’s and 00’s. Since 2010 the characters in world football are much more bland. Zlatan Ibrahimovic was one of the last lads of the old school era. Can anyone imagine Hristo Stoichkov or Romario being able to be who they were today? Not a chance. 

[kev61]

9 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

I would disagree with Van Dijk personally.

Christensen  is as good.I said that before he was gifted to Barcelona and I was laughed at. 

Is there any people in the club that can identify a decent player at the right price?

[xceleryx]

10 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Yep. I've said before that the pool of TOP talent is so much smaller than it used to be. Gone are the days when almost all the top teams would all have 3/4 proper elite players in them.

I was looking it up earlier but didn't share to keep things brief (unheard of, I know lol), but...

Looking at the top 15 highest transfer fees paid each year since 2018/19, so 90 transfers accumulatively in that span of time, only 29 of the signings made were 25 years of age or older. With the number gradually getting less as the seasons went on, and it also includes some of the big Saudi purchases like Neymar. 

Money is seriously being plowed into younger players and less so into established ones, whether it's because there isn't the established quality out there to go around, or other reasons such as clubs feeling its more beneficial investing that level of money into potential who knows. 

You go back 20 years and you'd have a hard time not seeing a top side with a handful truly elite players, if not a full eleven.

 

[Michael Tucker]

5 minutes ago, kev61 said:

Christensen  is as good.

Yes, I believe that he is.

5 minutes ago, kev61 said:

I said that before he was gifted to Barcelona and I was laughed at. 

Not by me, you weren't.

5 minutes ago, kev61 said:

Is there any people in the club that can identify a decent player at the right price?

Sure there is/are. Just don't expect me to name them!