Transfer Talk Topic

[JaneB]

38 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

I was the Ghost. Mr Tucker banned me and then never reinstated me under Sleeping Dave. After 6 months or so I created the Ghost. I thought it was fairly widely known it was me, there were certainly quite a few members who knew it was me. Droy certainly knew, but I thought (incorrectly) he had already been banned at that stage and figured it out by lurking. 

Michael then emailed me, acknowledged the mishap and merged the Ghost with the old Sleeping Dave account. 

Edit: hope I didn’t say too much now? 

Of course not.  It's long ago now and on the old forum.  

Glad you found your way back to the new forum anyway, under any name!!

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, east lower said:

You may have read stories that were circulating where Simon Jordan eluded to reasons existing for the new owners to be well within their rights for exiting TT. He wouldn’t say what they were. 
 

Serious stuff that split the dressing room, the Tuchel supporters and those aghast at what he’d supposedly been up to. Also gave the owners all the excuses they needed on their quest (in my view) to rid the club of legacy from the last owner.

 

No I haven'theard anything like that (as in I wasn't listening to gossip last year). 
But I certainly sense the impact on the first team players who are now scattered across Spain, Italy and the North.

[xceleryx]

9 hours ago, Willian Dollar Baby said:

Just because a player is rated by the club doesn't mean we should always buy them, particularly when stylistically Lavia doesn't add much to what we have. We've plenty of sub 21 CM's with potential, in the last year we've also signed Santos, Casadai and Chuckwemeka too. Another 19 year old prospect does not move the needle for us and it is greed because Europe or not, there is not enough space for everyone. At £50+million it's another waste of resources all on a promise. 

I can't see Lavia getting a great deal of minutes ahead of those already in the squad. Gallagher is unquestionably more PL ready whilst Ugochuckwo has a profile that we don't have elsewhere. Namely a big physical player who can win headers. 

If we go by transfer fees it would seem Enzo, Lavia & Caicedo are viewed as the long term midfield three by whoever is buying the players. In which case there is a severe lack of goal threat and three players who are average and below in both height and aerial ability. This limits our ability to play a player like Maatsen at LB or means we must play 3 CB's to avoid getting dominated at corners. We struggle enough for goals as it is without adding more players that have no clinical edge in front of goal. 

Enzo, Caicedo, Lavia, Ugochukwu, Gallagher, Chuckwemeka, Casadei and Santos.

That's 8 players for 3 positions, or 2 if Nkunku plays at 10. That's 7 bought in the last year by the new ownership + Gallagher who they are desperate to cash in on. Gallagher and Enzo are veterans of the group at 23 and 22 respectively. We've spent a billion and have a squad that might be excellent in 5 years time but is incredibly unbalanced with a lack of experience right now. 

On the foreign loans point - that was a mess created by the club by loaning out Kepa and Ziyech unnecessarily at the cost of the development of players who actually have a future here. Lukaku is a more complex situation but also one which did not paint us in a great light. I get the feeling that noone at the club realised there was a limit on foreign loans until 2 weeks before the transfer window shut. 

Didn't say we should buy every player the club rates, the point was to emphasise that it wasn't some slap dash decision which your initial comment portrayed. Quite clearly Lavia adds to what we have in terms of a pivot role, particularly with being an Enzo-like alternative. While we have added other young midfielders, their profiles are the more important part opposed to just their general midfield tag. Santos's is more of a box-to-box type of player, someone that can chip in with goals and that's largely how he played prior to arriving here. Of course, he can play that deeper role as well, but it does take away from some of what he can do. Casadei on the other hand is more of an #8. His strengths lie on the offensive side, getting into the box and also creating for others. That's how he played in Inter's youth system, it's how he's shown playing for the Italian U/21's, and also during his loan spells at both Reading last season and so far at Leicester. Chukwuemeka isn't someone you play in a pivot either, so really has no great bearing on Lavia joining or not. Like Casadei, Chuk is quite clearly a more offensively minded player, with that #10 position looking like his best fit. 

Just because you can't see Lavia getting a great deal of minutes doesn't make it so. The truth is, we just don't know yet because he's not played and won't for awhile yet (unfortunately). There's every chance he could've played in the coming weeks with Gallagher being pushed higher, or maybe even Enzo moving upfield and Lavia slotting into the role Enzo held. This basic example showcases some of the flexibility it can add. 

Those three would appear to be the longer term favours based on their fees, and sure there is a lack of goals in that trio on paper, but there is more creatively than we've had probably since Fabregas was last in midfield for us. As long as the midfield can get the ball into the attacking players regularly, more specifically in good positions, then it does help offset things a little more. A big part of our problem in prior years wasn't just a lack of goals, it was the sheer lack of creativity and usefulness in terms of purposeful ball movement.

You're counting your chicken a little early here. Yes, on paper those are options we have. Whether Ugo, Casadei, Santos, and even Chuk (depending how he returns) are here next season or beyond is anyone guess at this point, similarly Gallagher. But a big part of snapping up so many young player isn't just to hopefully unearth one or two that can make it here longer term, it's also to help generate revenue should they either not develop as expected, not fit the football, or whatever else. People need to look at this with a wider eye, opposed to just thinking we've signed these players to necessarily play for us. Particularly those who've come in at that sort of £20m or so price point, where profits can be made fairly easily with the way football inflation is. We could probably sell Santos and Casadei right now for a good £10m more than we initially paid as an example. That's all apart of this approach we've taken. 

Don't know how you can blame the club for loaning out players like Kepa, Ziyech and Lukaku. None of them wanted to be here for variety of reasons. Kepa obviously had Madrid come in unexpectedly and he was close to joining them originally before we signed him, for many his departure for a season and clearing of wages is a huge win. Ziyech has been on the other for awhile and interest pretty tame, similarly with Lukaku. If there aren't clubs out there willing to buy these players straight up then what do you propose we do? Because the only alternative outside of loaning them out is to keep unhappy players around. I imagine you'd not be a strong advocate for that, nor would many others. Yeah, I don't think the club are that daft, particularly when there's actual dedicated staff that deal with the loan side of thing as it is. It'll be why we left thing as late as we did in some cases because selling would've been more ideal.

[xceleryx]

9 hours ago, ROTG said:

So in your opinion which one or maybe all  of the new kids on the block in midfield department, will play a similar number of games as MM and produce or exceed his assist and goals say in the next 3 seasons?

Just trying to understand the continual lambasting of a midfield which added quite a few trophies for the club?

Does it matter? I mean it's a ridiculous set of goal posts you're trying to erect when Mount didn't play in midfield for one.

Then it completely ignores the context in which Mount got his opportunities; Lampard taking over as manager,  who had previously managed Mount at Derby, and our transfer ban. If neither of these two things happened who knows if Mount would've had the same chances that he did. 

[xceleryx]

8 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Come on, Celery. You're clearly one of the brightest sparks on here but you literally argued the other day that it was a good thing we bought Lavia and Ugochuckwu because Lavia just got injured.

Woe betide Gallagher filling in or switching to a 4-2-3-1 using our £200+ million of midfielders. We have spent £300+ million on midfielders who couldn't hit a barn door with Lukaku in a getaway car. 

Clearly Boehly and Eghbali have been taking turns rubbing each other's crystal balls and had the wisdom to spend nearly £90 million on two defensive midfielders without sorting out our real problems.

In some crucial ways, it doesn't matter whether Lavia was the right addition or not. What matters is whether we have a repeat of our last campaign where our single biggest issue is scoring goals.

Clearlake have slashed our wage bill just to get you on the payroll arguing our real issue is not having enough defensive midfielders. And yet I wanted Lavia and agree that he is a fantastic addition.

Difference is - I look at where we spent our money this summer and before and see we have a painfully imbalanced squad. Too many defenders, too many defensive-minded midfielders, not enough goals.

We sold our top goalscorer from last season, our top creative player from the last few seasons, and replaced them with a Man City youngster and a raw, entirely unproven striker from La Liga.

Plus Nkunku where we were unlucky. You repeat forward players weren't available but of course they were. Again we prioritised youth at the cost of having a squad that competes for European football.

And so Poch will fall on his sword because our fans have high expectations than and the owners should have learned that from last season. Talk about being inflexible. The same mistakes with new names.

I'm a little lost here, Max. I was never opposed to signing either Lavia or Ugo. Lavia wasn't necessarily a must buy, but I can certainly understand why he was picked up. As for Ugo, wasn't familiar with him prior so had no great opinion either way. 

We play with a double pivot, so it's not really the primary focus of those midfield two to be banging in goals left and right. Their larger responsibility is to provide an outlet when playing out from the back, to win the ball in the middle, provide cover in front of the defence, and then help progress the ball when in possession towards the more attacking players. Goals are a bonus, creativity and purposeful ball progression is arguably far more important - which is what they offer. 

We've had a huge, and I mean HUGE, summer window. The fact we've managed to get a lot of what we did done is remarkable in itself. The idea that we were also going to fix or remedy every problem we had was never a reasonable expectation to have. I've said myself I'd have liked one or two other areas attended to better than they were, but in the grand scheme of things I'm satisfied with what we did get done. Even if I don't necessarily agree with all decisions made, or at least felt we could've put more into other areas first.

I've already expressed to yourself that I'd have liked us to sign another attacker or two, particularly a striker, but also acknowledge the options in the market right now and that even some of the flashier names have question marks above them. It may mean being a bit short in quality for the time being, but if it means getting a suitable option later then it's hard to fault that approach either. 

 

[ROTG]

20 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Does it matter? I mean it's a ridiculous set of goal posts you're trying to erect when Mount didn't play in midfield for one.

Then it completely ignores the context in which Mount got his opportunities; Lampard taking over as manager,  who had previously managed Mount at Derby, and our transfer ban. If neither of these two things happened who knows if Mount would've had the same chances that he did. 

No ridiculous goal post and Mount did play in Midfield. 

I a case of intrigue on why you feel the previous regimes squads  in there latter years were so poor, trophies and where they finished in the league are the complete opposite. 

Again you are lambasting Mount, under the context of Lampard and Derby. Even if that was the case, he came back scored goals won POTY and was a major part of helping the team which  included the likes of Tammy and others promoted from the academy,  4th and FA cup final.  Then we all know what happend the following season. 

When can one expect some kind of predictions from you on when the current squad will come to frouition with some identity and deliver trophies etc.

It not a personal thing, I just don't understand your angles, which seem more strawman with very little substance

On the other hand what would I know, I am still reading Howard Wilkinson book on coaching 😀

[kev61]

On 10/09/2023 at 12:03, boratsbrother said:

Damien Hirst's 'Shark In A Tank' Tracey Emin's 'Unmade Bed' which was eventually sold for over 4million dollars. It's an insult to the great painters and sculptors for that kind of nonsense to be classed as Art.

If you go to Malta you have to go to St John's cathedral in Valetta.There are many works by Caravaggio.

If you'r not mesmerized  by 'the beheading of john the Baptist' then no wonder people think Enzo is even close to Kante's talent.

In my very humble opinion master copperfield.

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by kev61

[kev61]

On 10/09/2023 at 22:08, chara said:

OK,,home and Dr(o)y.... Welcome back mate,,,, you have been mentioned more than any past member on many occasions here..... I can relax now!...no way would anyone else know #3

I don't think it is Droy.Seeing as I like who dunnit mysteries (and a general shit stirrer).

There's a member here who joined another site when the old site closed down,and described the old site as 'full of grumpy old men'..... my lips are sealed.

[chara]

27 minutes ago, kev61 said:

I don't think it is Droy.Seeing as I like who dunnit mysteries (and a general shit stirrer).

There's a member here who joined another site when the old site closed down,and described the old site as 'full of grumpy old men'..... my lips are sealed.

I had my doubts kev but the answer to one of my questions could only have come from Droy unless someone had access to pm's on the old forum...and I didn't make it easy to answer,,,,, 

😁

[kev61]

4 minutes ago, chara said:

I had my doubts kev but the answer to one of my questions could only have come from Droy unless someone had access to pm's on the old forum...and I didn't make it easy to answer,,,,, 

😁

Fair enough chum.Glad to see him back even though I can't remember one single instance when I agreed with him😀

[xceleryx]

33 minutes ago, ROTG said:

No ridiculous goal post and Mount did play in Midfield. 

I a case of intrigue on why you feel the previous regimes squads  in there latter years were so poor, trophies and where they finished in the league are the complete opposite. 

Again you are lambasting Mount, under the context of Lampard and Derby. Even if that was the case, he came back scored goals won POTY and was a major part of helping the team which  included the likes of Tammy and others promoted from the academy,  4th and FA cup final.  Then we all know what happend the following season. 

When can one expect some kind of predictions from you on when the current squad will come to frouition with some identity and deliver trophies etc.

It not a personal thing, I just don't understand your angles, which seem more strawman with very little substance

On the other hand what would I know, I am still reading Howard Wilkinson book on coaching 😀

Mount played like 35 times in midfield for us and recorded like 4 goals and 3 assists, it's not a valid measuring stick no matter how much you try to push it. 

I don't think our squads under the previous regime were poor, but it wasn't great either in certain areas. While we had some good individuals, it didn't necessarily translate into us being a cohesive unit where everyone worked well together or skillsets would compliment. Yes, we did win trophies, but we've also long been a glorified cup side. And as we all know, you don't necessarily need to be the best team to win a cup competition, it's all about who shows up on the day and what luck is had along the way. 

I'm not lambasting Mount whatsoever, merely acknowledging the context around his inclusion in the first team and his primary role for us being in more of an attacking midfield capacity. Similarly can apply to James, Tomori, Tammy and so on from that period. Without a transfer ban or Lampard and Morris joining, who really knows just how great of an opportunity these guys would've got here. It's not inconceivable to believe some may not have had the chances they had if circumstances were different - or normal. 

I've always said this is a multi year process, for the short term general improvement from where we were last season is the first port of call. That can be as simple as being a more organised side and offering more cohesive looking football, with hopefully a decent domestic cup run or two. I'd expect in the next 2-3 years we'll be in a better position to challenge for bigger honours, but that's on the prevision that we also add a couple of established players to the mix in that period. It's also difficult to fully judge where we are, or what we'll look like, courtesy of not being able to actually field our best eleven yet, and because this is still a new group that are finding their feet together - manager included. Having had sporting teams that've gone through similar rebuilding processes, the one thing I've learnt is there's no benefits to be had  in having hard and fast expectations in this type of situation.

[kev61]

19 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

  Sorry Kev . 

No need  mark and I know you'r not sorry.It's just you'r soft nature that takes the sting out of things.

You'r still wrong!😄

[kev61]

On 10/09/2023 at 12:03, boratsbrother said:

Damien Hirst's 'Shark In A Tank' Tracey Emin's 'Unmade Bed' which was eventually sold for over 4million dollars. It's an insult to the great painters and sculptors for that kind of nonsense to be classed as Art.

Hirst almost admitted to it in an interview with Alan Yentob.He and Banksy are taking the piss of the art 'elite'.

Anyone remember Sasha - Baron - Cohens  take on 'Bruno' the expert on fashion?

 

[kev61]

1 hour ago, chara said:

I had my doubts kev but the answer to one of my questions could only have come from Droy unless someone had access to pm's on the old forum...and I didn't make it easy to answer,,,,, 

😁

You Pm'd Droy?.Jesus Chara you are a prince among men.

Edited September 12, 2023 by kev61

[Blue Moon]

15 minutes ago, kev61 said:

You Pm'd Droy?.Jesus Chara you are a prince among men.

… Or a glutton for punishment. You choose, @kev61!

[chara]

@Blue Moon and @kev61

Well guys...Never met anyone yet who I couldn't learn from,,IF I LISTEN,,which I do!

I'm mindful of the philosophy of J.B. Book..works for me!☺️🤠

 

[Michael Tucker]

14 minutes ago, chara said:

I'm mindful of the philosophy of J.B. Book..works for me!☺️🤠

The Duke?

[chara]

6 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

The Duke?

Indeed!..."The Shootist".....

[Michael Tucker]

1 minute ago, chara said:

Indeed!..."The Shootist".....

Great film with Lauren Bacall and Ron Howard alongside The Duke.. They don't make them like that anymore!

[Blue Moon]

Never watched it , @chara- looks like I’ve missed something 

[ROTG]

4 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Mount played like 35 times in midfield for us and recorded like 4 goals and 3 assists, it's not a valid measuring stick no matter how much you try to push it. 

 

4 hours ago, xceleryx said:

I'm not lambasting Mount whatsoever, merely acknowledging the context around his inclusion in the first team and his primary role for us being in more of an attacking midfield capacity

Seems like you are contradicting yourself

 

I guess the PL are full of BS with players data

 

Lets move on MM is historical - based on their price tags, one can only hope the new kids on the midfield block can produce similar or better statistics than MM,

 

[thevelourfog]

Is there anyone posting here who hasn't been banned at some point? 🤣

I haven't done a stretch in a good while now.

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

 

Seems like you are contradicting yourself

 

I guess the PL are full of BS with players data

 

Lets move on MM is historical - based on their price tags, one can only hope the new kids on the midfield block can produce similar or better statistics than MM,

 

The Premier League site is incredibly basic and generic when it comes to how it labels its players. There's zero differential between a centreback or a fullback, or a winger and a striker for example. It's literally four groups - Goalkeepers, Defenders, Midfielders and Forwards. It's an awful source for actually identifying where a player actually plays. 

Premier League specific (for us). 

But yes, moving on.

[ROTG]

56 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

The Premier League site is incredibly basic and generic when it comes to how it labels its players. There's zero differential between a centreback or a fullback, or a winger and a striker for example. It's literally four groups - Goalkeepers, Defenders, Midfielders and Forwards. It's an awful source for actually identifying where a player actually plays. 

Premier League specific (for us). 

But yes, moving on.

Specifics makes the NKOTB even worst in central midfield 😀

That's it honest  - I am going back to read another page of Howard Wilkinson's guide to football coaching techniques 😀🤡

[boratsbrother]

20 hours ago, ROTG said:

 

Just trying to understand the continual lambasting of a midfield which added quite a few trophies for the club?

With that midfield we had become a Cup team, that was the issue for most fans!

Prior to that midfield we had an occasional poor season but that was followed by a serious title challenge. Sadly, with Kante, Kova and Jorginho,  season after season we were blown away in the league and often made to look levels below the likes of City. It was a midfield that was simply unable to produce anywhere near enough good chances for our forwards or score anywhere near enough goals between the three of them. In this era, such a chronic lack of creativity and goal threat will kill any teams chances of competing for, let alone winning the title. 

To stand any chance of competing with the best again we had no choice but to rip up that midfield and start again. Did a good job moving them on so quickly,  but made a disastrous mistake spending hundreds of millions on a midfield which will cause us exactly the same priblem as the one which it replaced. Passing up on Madison (EXACTLY THE KIND OF MIDFIELDER WE ARE CRYING OUT FOR) for a paltry £40 million, while blowing mega money on too many defensive players, ranks right up there with the biggest ever transfer mistakes we've ever made!

A mistake so big it's tipped the balance for me in believing we have too many people making too many big decisions and simply don't know what they doing.

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by boratsbrother