Transfer Talk Topic

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, kev61 said:

You'r missing the point that most fans do - 12 months???.Why are spurs doing so well(without Harry Kane)why are Brighton streets ahead of us, yes Brighton!.Why are Newcastle streets ahead of us and Arsenal - 'but we looked good against Liverpool and we looked good in pre-season'.The reality is we are have went backwards since then.

An injury to Nkunku and Reece doesn't cut it.Gusto is a very fine replacement for james and we could have signed Felix that could have done a similar role to Nkunku. 

I'm sick and tired of people  making excuses for our new owners.

My prediction is we will improve but not to get top 4,possibly top 6.I can't believe a successful investment  company haven't planned the worst case scenario and will walk away.

Re Spurs: They're less Harry Kane centric, picked up a couple of good players, Son's found form again, and they've had a fairly easy start to the season against Brentford, Man Utd, Bournemouth and Burnley. While I rate Ange highly, an injury to Son or Maddison and the wheels may fall off a little. 

Re Brighton: They've been building for years to get to where they are, going back to the foundations Potter created that have been elevated under De Zerbi. They've also been a middle of the rung club with no real pressure to do well, not having any sort of notable expectations has its benefits. Let's see how they go with a few injuries and having to play European football on top. 

Re Newcastle: They hired a good manager and been sensible with their approach. They haven't been in a rush to try and climb up the table, maybe gotten a little lucky with us, Man Utd and Tottenham also being underwhelming at the same time. Again, let's see how they do once they're playing Champions League matches during the season. Their start to the season hasn't been good either with just a solitary win to their name. 

Re Arsenal: How long has it taken them to get to this point under Arteta? (Was hired at the end of 2019 FWIW). Again, it's been a project that they've built over consecutive seasons. Things weren't looking overly rosy early in the peace with many Arsenal supports wanting Arteta sacked, but the board stuck it out and look at where they are now. 

Spurs aside, there's a common theme here (patience, if you missed it). 

[Max Fowler]

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

We'd be gambling even if we went spent big on more proven established players to be fair. We've seen plenty of those come, miserably fail, then spend years trying to get them off the books before eventually going. Heck, look what an established group of players provided last season.

I am afraid the logic of this argument will never make sense to me. Anyone can bring up examples of young players who have done well and badly, older pros who have succeeded and failed too. 

It really is common sense that if you want to win anything in top level football, as Poch also seems to want to do, you need a certain minimum amount of experienced players in your squad.

What are we "gambling"? Our finances? I could equally say it's "gambling" to put twenty kids on 8 year contracts. Good luck trying to get them all off the books when push comes to shove.

Or it's "gambling" to not address the major problems with your squad as best as you can, even if any solution you try to find comes with inherent risks - that is the reality of elite sport and decision making. 

I struggle with the world "gambling" because any transfer is a gamble, even dead certs like Haaland to Man City. We're not "gambling" if we buy only youngsters - we're not even playing the game.

So please - no more "look what an established group of players provided last season". Look at every other top club winning things with established players and no other top club winning without them.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Max Fowler

[Max Fowler]

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

@Rob B has more or less addressed the Kepa situation, so I'll leave it at that. 

Good debating it all with you though.

I don't think that's a closed book either. Sanchez is a downgrade on Kepa that might have made financial sense, personally I always thought that was a key position we needed to primarily address anyway this summer but we now look weaker for it.

It could come back to bite us and it's too early to say that's a closed book.

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

Re Spurs: They're less Harry Kane centric, picked up a couple of good players, Son's found form again, and they've had a fairly easy start to the season against Brentford, Man Utd, Bournemouth and Burnley. While I rate Ange highly, an injury to Son or Maddison and the wheels may fall off a little. 

Re Brighton: They've been building for years to get to where they are, going back to the foundations Potter created that have been elevated under De Zerbi. They've also been a middle of the rung club with no real pressure to do well, not having any sort of notable expectations has its benefits. Let's see how they go with a few injuries and having to play European football on top. 

Re Newcastle: They hired a good manager and been sensible with their approach. They haven't been in a rush to try and climb up the table, maybe gotten a little lucky with us, Man Utd and Tottenham also being underwhelming at the same time. Again, let's see how they do once they're playing Champions League matches during the season. Their start to the season hasn't been good either with just a solitary win to their name. 

Re Arsenal: How long has it taken them to get to this point under Arteta? (Was hired at the end of 2019 FWIW). Again, it's been a project that they've built over consecutive seasons. Things weren't looking overly rosy early in the peace with many Arsenal supports wanting Arteta sacked, but the board stuck it out and look at where they are now. 

Spurs aside, there's a common theme here (patience, if you missed it). 

Of these models, only Arsenal is at all relevant to where we are today and our expectations. In fact, Arsenal's success with youth has apparently been a big influence on Boehly. and co. - Arteta was seen as a model for Graham Potter.

Don't forget though - Arsenal have spent a lot of money on established Premier League players. Gabriel Jesus, Zinchenko, now Declan Rice and Havertz (although they have likely made a significant mistake with the latter).

And, don't forget, many Arsenal fans still wonder if Arteta is really capable of taking them to the promised land, their "success" has only been in comparison to years and decades spent in the football wilderness we are trying to avoid.

[xceleryx]

12 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I am afraid the logic of this argument will never make sense to me. Anyone can bring up examples of young players who have done well and badly, older pros who have succeeded and failed too. 

It really is common sense that if you want to win anything in top level football, as Poch also seems to want to do, you need a certain minimum amount of experienced players in your squad.

What are we "gambling"? Our finances? I could equally say it's "gambling" to put twenty kids on 8 year contracts. Good luck trying to get them all off the books when push comes to shove.

Or it's "gambling" to not address the major problems with your squad as best as you can, even if any solution you try to find comes with inherent risks - that is the reality of elite sport and decision making. 

I struggle with the world "gambling" because any transfer is a gamble, even dead certs like Haaland to Man City. We're not "gambling" if we buy only youngsters - we're not even playing the game.

So please - no more "look what an established group of players provided last season". Look at every other top club winning things with established players and no other top club winning without them.

Not sure how it doesn't make sense, it's a pretty logical notion which highlights that there aren't guarantees either way. We saw an established group finish mid-table under Mourinho, we've seen it be domestically well off the pace for years, and they certainly didn't dig in last season when we needed them most. If the game was played on paper, different story and I'd be more inclined to agree with yourself but it's not. 

I agree, teams that win things have a specific level of experience and maturity about them. Here's the catch though, we're not trying to win things this season. Whether that's said publicly or not, we all know the best chance is maybe with  domestic cup run and some luck. Otherwise our biggest priority is to hopefully secure some form of European football again, while simultaneously establishing new foundations to build and grown from for future years. 

Twenty kids on 8 year deals with heavily cost managed contracts is a far less drastic gamble than twenty established players in their peak years, on the same length contract and wages out the wazoo. Good luck trying to move the latter. If you need an example of what that's like, check Kepa, Lukaku, Ziyech, Torres, Bakayoko, Drinkwater, Batshuayi, etc if you needed reminding. 

[Sleeping Dave]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

Re Spurs: They're less Harry Kane centric, picked up a couple of good players, Son's found form again, and they've had a fairly easy start to the season against Brentford, Man Utd, Bournemouth and Burnley. While I rate Ange highly, an injury to Son or Maddison and the wheels may fall off a little. 

Re Brighton: They've been building for years to get to where they are, going back to the foundations Potter created that have been elevated under De Zerbi. They've also been a middle of the rung club with no real pressure to do well, not having any sort of notable expectations has its benefits. Let's see how they go with a few injuries and having to play European football on top. 

Re Newcastle: They hired a good manager and been sensible with their approach. They haven't been in a rush to try and climb up the table, maybe gotten a little lucky with us, Man Utd and Tottenham also being underwhelming at the same time. Again, let's see how they do once they're playing Champions League matches during the season. Their start to the season hasn't been good either with just a solitary win to their name. 

Re Arsenal: How long has it taken them to get to this point under Arteta? (Was hired at the end of 2019 FWIW). Again, it's been a project that they've built over consecutive seasons. Things weren't looking overly rosy early in the peace with many Arsenal supports wanting Arteta sacked, but the board stuck it out and look at where they are now. 

Spurs aside, there's a common theme here (patience, if you missed it). 

Fully agree with this mate. The reason why I think the pushback has been so hard is due to not an insignificant number of fans has had unrealistic expectations on this group of players. Some even talking about us being the second best squad after City 👀

One does worry that the ownership may have similar expectations, if the do, Poch will be on his way around Christmas and that’s no way to run a football club. If they want to give Poch a chance, with this squad they need to give him three full seasons in order for him to realistically be able to do anything reasonable with it. Mind they still need to add goals in the side, so we are not done spending… With that in mind, I think we could have spent less on potential and more on ability to find a much better balance in both the approach but also in the squad. 

[xceleryx]

28 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I don't think that's a closed book either. Sanchez is a downgrade on Kepa that might have made financial sense, personally I always thought that was a key position we needed to primarily address anyway this summer but we now look weaker for it.

It could come back to bite us and it's too early to say that's a closed book.

Sanchez was signed before Kepa left, just so happens the Kepa situation arose late in the window unexpectedly.  When you see medicore GK's like Onana moving for the money they did, and the general lack of quality options out there, I'm not overly surprised we opted to just stick with Sanchez. Which, as @thevelourfogpointed out the other day I believe, his situation at Brighton isn't as it has largely been portrayed as. 

There's also nothing stopping us from addressing it further with a bit more time up our sleeves. Granted, it may already be solved depending on this Petrovic fella. We'll know more once we see him I suppose, but he looks bright from what YT has displayed. 

[xceleryx]

27 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Of these models, only Arsenal is at all relevant to where we are today and our expectations. In fact, Arsenal's success with youth has apparently been a big influence on Boehly. and co. - Arteta was seen as a model for Graham Potter.

Don't forget though - Arsenal have spent a lot of money on established Premier League players. Gabriel Jesus, Zinchenko, now Declan Rice and Havertz (although they have likely made a significant mistake with the latter).

And, don't forget, many Arsenal fans still wonder if Arteta is really capable of taking them to the promised land, their "success" has only been in comparison to years and decades spent in the football wilderness we are trying to avoid.

They have, and how many years did it take Arsenal to start spending on these more established players? I certainly know none of them immediately stepped through the door day one. 

There's also nothing stopping us from adding our own established players in the coming windows, this is a big part in why I refuse to get my pants in a twist over things at present. If we're in phase one of a three or four phase plan, then I'd want to naturally see more of that before a proper conclusion can be drawn. 

Now, if we're in the exact same spot with the same approach in another 3-4 years time, by all means I'll be less than pleased. We're not there yet however. 

[Max Fowler]

7 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Not sure how it doesn't make sense, it's a pretty logical notion which highlights that there aren't guarantees either way. We saw an established group finish mid-table under Mourinho, we've seen it be domestically well off the pace for years, and they certainly didn't dig in last season when we needed them most. If the game was played on paper, different story and I'd be more inclined to agree with yourself but it's not. 

I agree, teams that win things have a specific level of experience and maturity about them. Here's the catch though, we're not trying to win things this season. Whether that's said publicly or not, we all know the best chance is maybe with  domestic cup run and some luck. Otherwise our biggest priority is to hopefully secure some form of European football again, while simultaneously establishing new foundations to build and grown from for future years. 

Twenty kids on 8 year deals with heavily cost managed contracts is a far less drastic gamble than twenty established players in their peak years, on the same length contract and wages out the wazoo. Good luck trying to move the latter. If you need an example of what that's like, check Kepa, Lukaku, Ziyech, Torres, Bakayoko, Drinkwater, Batshuayi, etc if you needed reminding. 

Again, you're being disingenuous highlighting those players but I'll let it go. 

Point taken about our ambitions - would love to know what the ramifications are of us finishing outside of the top 4 (5?) this season and if we'll invest big in January to make it happen.

Personally, I think Europa League places are a disaster for us. I would almost rather finish outside than be in that competition next season - that's why this season feels like such an opportunity. 

[Max Fowler]

8 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

They have, and how many years did it take Arsenal to start spending on these more established players? I certainly know none of them immediately stepped through the door day one. 

There's also nothing stopping us from adding our own established players in the coming windows, this is a big part in why I refuse to get my pants in a twist over things at present. If we're in phase one of a three or four phase plan, then I'd want to naturally see more of that before a proper conclusion can be drawn. 

Now, if we're in the exact same spot with the same approach in another 3-4 years time, by all means I'll be less than pleased. We're not there yet however. 

I may be entitled but IMO our model for success should be to emulate Man City. Get the best in class manager and best in class players available each season. Refresh 1-2 each year and bed youth slowly.

With City around and Liverpool coming back, the Arsenal model can't compete and won't this season. They have only been a success in comparison to the abject failure experience over the last 20 years.

[xceleryx]

8 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Fully agree with this mate. The reason why I think the pushback has been so hard is due to not an insignificant number of fans has had unrealistic expectations on this group of players. Some even talking about us being the second best squad after City 👀

One does worry that the ownership may have similar expectations, if the do, Poch will be on his way around Christmas and that’s no way to run a football club. If they want to give Poch a chance, with this squad they need to give him three full seasons in order for him to realistically be able to do anything reasonable with it. Mind they still need to add goals in the side, so we are not done spending… With that in mind, I think we could have spent less on potential and more on ability to find a much better balance in both the approach but also in the squad. 

Ownership certainly are going to need to be patience, but based on how they've operated so far I don't have great concerns about that right now. We'd have to be Potter-like putrid for Poch to likely be dismissed by Christmas, and that's not something I see happening even if we're not necessarily higher up the table. 

The big thing will be to continuously show progression each year, for me that's the non-negotiable. As long as we do that, plus continue to address our areas of need with each upcoming window,  such as adding goals as you've said, then I can see us coming on leaps and bounds. 

Maybe we could've been more attentive to some of our needs this summer, but if ownership are breaking down this whole process into phases then I'm satisfied with what's been achieved so far. I'll be intrigued to see how we approach upcoming windows, these could be the ones that actually help raise the bar now that we've got fresh foundations in place. 

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

Ownership certainly are going to need to be patience, but based on how they've operated so far I don't have great concerns about that right now. We'd have to be Potter-like putrid for Poch to likely be dismissed by Christmas, and that's not something I see happening even if we're not necessarily higher up the table. 

The big thing will be to continuously show progression each year, for me that's the non-negotiable. As long as we do that, plus continue to address our areas of need with each upcoming window,  such as adding goals as you've said, then I can see us coming on leaps and bounds. 

Maybe we could've been more attentive to some of our needs this summer, but if ownership are breaking down this whole process into phases then I'm satisfied with what's been achieved so far. I'll be intrigued to see how we approach upcoming windows, these could be the ones that actually help raise the bar now that we've got fresh foundations in place. 

We haven’t shown any progression so far though, that’s why many are so worried. We seemingly haven’t addressed many of our most important needs and we don’t have any foundations in place after last season. There are no „fresh foundations“ when you spend £500 million and finish 12th - only a nightmare you gingerly wake yourself up from because the only way is up.

A kind view of the owners says they have tore up everything and are learning on the job from their huge number of mistakes. To say you don’t have any concerns „based on how they‘ve operated so far“ is bordering on the delusional. If it wasn’t for Tuchel last season we would have been in a proper relegation dog fight. Remember?

Again - I’m not meaning to be unrelentingly negative, because I do have hope even with these owners. To me though, that means holding them to account as the fans did with Potter. And properly acknowledging that the only real evidence we have of how the owners are performing is last season.

[Mark Kelly]

34 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

We haven’t shown any progression so far though, that’s why many are so worried. We seemingly haven’t addressed many of our most important needs and we don’t have any foundations in place after last season. There are no „fresh foundations“ when you spend £500 million and finish 12th - only a nightmare you gingerly wake yourself up from because the only way is up.

A kind view of the owners says they have tore up everything and are learning on the job from their huge number of mistakes. To say you don’t have any concerns „based on how they‘ve operated so far“ is bordering on the delusional. If it wasn’t for Tuchel last season we would have been in a proper relegation dog fight. Remember?

Again - I’m not meaning to be unrelentingly negative, because I do have hope even with these owners. To me though, that means holding them to account as the fans did with Potter. And properly acknowledging that the only real evidence we have of how the owners are performing is last season.

I think there has definitely and irrefutably been progression , we are already moving the ball faster , not maybe as quickly as we can but definitely faster , there is more of an emphasis on the forward pass and more movement , we have Colwill and Silva both capable of making long sweeping passes , we have a decent centre forward with a good understanding of the role , we have genuine pace in the side now . What we are lacking is familiarity and a bit of steel .

The owners have made some decisions that look from the outside to be idiotic but we often don't know the noise behind the scenes that were driving them , especially the Tuchel situation , probably the biggest mistake was trusting the ITK assessment of Potter who was very much seen to be "the coming man" in the media , and many of us fell for that one too. Not having a shirt sponsor five games into a new season is West Ham levels of mismanagement so that hasn't been too great either 

We were great pre season , fast , fluid , goals galore football , the loss to Forest and West Ham has knocked that right out of us.

A bit more time , a bit more opportunity to gel and we will be firing on all cylinders again .

[Willian Dollar Baby]

12 hours ago, Rob B said:

Real Madrid would never have signed Kepa permanently- everyone knows that when Courtois is fit again he plays.

The only deal on the table was a loan - and clearly there was a big financial incentive to get his wages off the books for a season. 

And we weren’t forced to go with Sanchez, he had already been bought prior to Kepa’s loan.

So rightly or wrongly, the club have assessed it as follows:

1. Sanchez is of a similar ability to Kepa overall (different strengths and weaknesses) so no real quality detriment to play one over the other 

2.  Big financial upside to loan Kepa 

3.  Neither are long term solutions and Kepa won’t be offered a new deal, so may as well start to sever ties now 

I’ve made this point elsewhere but there’s a lot of really knowledgeable football people who claim that Petrovic is the real deal. 

If the only deal on the table was a loan then I would've personally said no deal. Bayern were also interested so unfortunately Real shouldn't be able to have the luxury of loaning him, particularly so last minute. He may have high wages and he still will next summer when he returns and leaves us with 3 GK on big contracts. 

We bought Sanchez to challenge Kepa and it was pretty clear Kepa was still thought of as the number 1. If the bid wasn't so late, I doubt we buy Sanchez and instead invest heavily in an outright number 1. For the inconvenience, the bid would need to be very good and therefore not a temporary loan.

There's also the added factor of him taking up a foreign loan spot which has forced us to keep players such as Ugochukwu, Chalobah and Washington leaves us with a bloated squad  that is likely to cause problems. 

On Petrovic, I've also heard good things and if he lives up to the billing he will probably be starting ahead of Sanchez by seasons end. All I would say is Matt Turner was also highly rated in the MLS and has translated to an okay prem keeper who is potentially now number 2 at Forest. It is a big step up. 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-most-valuable-soccer-player-in-america-is-a-goalkeeper/

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Willian Dollar Baby

[Willian Dollar Baby]

3 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Again, you're being disingenuous highlighting those players but I'll let it go. 

Point taken about our ambitions - would love to know what the ramifications are of us finishing outside of the top 4 (5?) this season and if we'll invest big in January to make it happen.

Personally, I think Europa League places are a disaster for us. I would almost rather finish outside than be in that competition next season - that's why this season feels like such an opportunity. 

I'm sure much of the budgeting is dependent on getting CL qualification. If not we'll be selling off someone like Colwill next summer to pay for it. The extended contract doesn't mean much long-term, Chalobah signed a 6 year contract last November. All the owners really care about is that noone leaves on a free. 

[Max Fowler]

9 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I think there has definitely and irrefutably been progression , we are already moving the ball faster , not maybe as quickly as we can but definitely faster , there is more of an emphasis on the forward pass and more movement , we have Colwill and Silva both capable of making long sweeping passes , we have a decent centre forward with a good understanding of the role , we have genuine pace in the side now . What we are lacking is familiarity and a bit of steel .

The owners have made some decisions that look from the outside to be idiotic but we often don't know the noise behind the scenes that were driving them , especially the Tuchel situation , probably the biggest mistake was trusting the ITK assessment of Potter who was very much seen to be "the coming man" in the media , and many of us fell for that one too. Not having a shirt sponsor five games into a new season is West Ham levels of mismanagement so that hasn't been too great either 

We were great pre season , fast , fluid , goals galore football , the loss to Forest and West Ham has knocked that right out of us.

A bit more time , a bit more opportunity to gel and we will be firing on all cylinders again .

First half against Forest, I completely agree. Second half, I can't. It was as bad as last season and West Ham wasn't much better. As Ham says, only time will tell if we will start to pick up more points. 

Patterns of play are lovely but points are everything and Pochettino knows that.

Pre-season is pre-season. Your analysis misses the crucial fact that we still don't look like scoring goals.

Let's see if that changes against Bournemouth.
 

[Ham]

6 hours ago, kev61 said:

It's good to see the empty vessels are not getting their own way with the likes of Morg and Max.

We used to have bluerod that went against the grain.Whatever happened to him?.

So anytime who disagrees with their opinion is an empty vessel? 

 

[paulw66]

On 14/09/2023 at 10:37, Ham said:

Personally I CAN see them getting double figures each. Maybe not this season because of injuries and missing half seasons.

 

 

16 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

I’m sorry but aren’t we talking about this season? I can promise you 100% that Sterling, Jackson, Nkunku and Madueke won’t all get 10+ PL goals this season.

 

It is actually extremely rare to have 4 players scoring 10+ PL goals in one season. Without going into the ins and outs of all of our players, even when we were at our best, it never happened.

Picking out some of our best seasons, and the number of players with 10 or more league goals:

2004/5 - 3

2005/6 - 3

2006/7 - 2

2007/8 - 1

2008/9 - 2

2009/10 - 4 (record breaking season in terms of total goals scored)

2014/15 - 2

2016/17 - 2

Point I am making is that you don't by any means need 4 players to get 10 goals to win the league, let alone get top 4.

[boratsbrother]

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

 

Point I am making is that you don't by any means need 4 players to get 10 goals to win the league, let alone get top 4.

Yes, it's about the amount of goals the entire team score, not just the main forwards.

Big question is whether this current team has anywhere near enough goals in it, not just to try and have a better season, but if things don't start improving, to save us from a relegation battle?  As I pointed out in an earlier post, Sterling is the only player we have who's scored more than 8 league goals for us. For me, that is a worrying statistic. It means that we are hoping these players have enough goals in them, but hope is all we have because there is no record to show that they do have enough goals in them.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by boratsbrother

[xceleryx]

 

[Mark Kelly]

18 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

 

Good news 

[paulw66]

1 hour ago, boratsbrother said:

Yes, it's about the amount of goals the entire team score, not just the main forwards.

 

 

yes. JT, Ivanovic, Cahill..........they all used to get circa 5 each. Gallas, to a similar degree. That all adds up to another forward if you have defenders who can contribute like that.

[Sleeping Dave]

4 hours ago, paulw66 said:

 

It is actually extremely rare to have 4 players scoring 10+ PL goals in one season. Without going into the ins and outs of all of our players, even when we were at our best, it never happened.

Picking out some of our best seasons, and the number of players with 10 or more league goals:

2004/5 - 3

2005/6 - 3

2006/7 - 2

2007/8 - 1

2008/9 - 2

2009/10 - 4 (record breaking season in terms of total goals scored)

2014/15 - 2

2016/17 - 2

Point I am making is that you don't by any means need 4 players to get 10 goals to win the league, let alone get top 4.

No. But you need to score around 70 goals to get into top four. My point was “where the fuck is those 70 goals supposed to come from?”

If none of our attackers can consistently get +10 goals who is then supposed to score them? Lavia and Caicedo? James and Chilwell? We have a situation where attacking players at the club has struggled to even score five league goals. Granted we have basically a whole new team but I’m desperately trying to tell myself we have a midfield and attack that is able to score those 70 goals - unsuccessfully I might add. 

[Sleeping Dave]

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

yes. JT, Ivanovic, Cahill..........they all used to get circa 5 each. Gallas, to a similar degree. That all adds up to another forward if you have defenders who can contribute like that.

But now you are comparing the Jose Mourinho side with the reality of today. There is no comparison whatsoever. Back then it was enough to score 70 goals to win the league if you also had a stellar defensive record. We have neither and there isn’t a side in the PL today that can go through a whole season only conceding 15 goals… Man C has consistently scored 90+ goals over the last five seasons. We are talking about the bare minimum 70 goals here and are struggling to see where that is going to come from. 

I really think that a large majority on here lack the basic understanding of what it takes to be successful in the PL these days. Having a fullback scoring five goals isn’t enough mate. You need a handful of players who score around 10 league goals consistently. Last season Arsenal had four players scoring more than 10 league goals - Odegaard (15), Martinelli (15), Saka (14) and Jesus (11). On top of that they had Xhaka (7). 

City only had two, Haaland (36) and Foden (11) but also had Alvarez (9), Gundogan (8) and De Bruyne (7). Season before that City had 3 players on 10+ goals and another five players scoring 7+ goals. In those two season our top scorer was Havertz (7) and Mount (11). Both sold as you know. Do we have a single player you are confident will get more than 9 league goals this season? Cause I am not. 

[paulw66]

14 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

No. But you need to score around 70 goals to get into top four. My point was “where the fuck is those 70 goals supposed to come from?”

 

I dunno!

We'll have to hope some of these youngsters come good!