Transfer Talk Topic

[ROTG]

6 minutes ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

Osimhen has had a huge falling out with Napoli and has removed all Napoli photos from his Instagram. We absolutely must get him and Toney in January.

And how many academy player do the club sell to balance the books ?

Also the club will not pay the wages Osimhen will demand,

Finally I doubt Osimhen would be interested in coming to a mid table PL club

It is not a dig at you personally, but to be honest its Lady Gaga land dreams now unlike a couple of seasons ago when we were a top club in Europe.

[Chelsea_Matt]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

And how many academy player do the club sell to balance the books ?

Also the club will not pay the wages Osimhen will demand,

Finally I doubt Osimhen would be interested in coming to a mid table PL club

It is not a dig at you personally, but to be honest its Lady Gaga land dreams now unlike a couple of seasons ago when we were a top club in Europe.

You point to an important, bigger issue.

This whole project is a big gamble in terms of how it’s been done. While the board acted from a good place - we can’t accuse them of not spending! - have we been cast to non-contenders for the next decade? 

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

And how many academy player do the club sell to balance the books ?

Also the club will not pay the wages Osimhen will demand,

Finally I doubt Osimhen would be interested in coming to a mid table PL club

It is not a dig at you personally, but to be honest its Lady Gaga land dreams now unlike a couple of seasons ago when we were a top club in Europe.

I believe I've heard Oshimen supported Chelsea growing up and Drogba was his idol, that may carry some weight.

Real Madrid don't sign African players, and they'll likely target Mbappe instead forming a fluid front three with Vini and Rodrygo. Barcelona have Lewa and likely cannot afford the sort of fee Oshimen would likely be sold for. We can rule Bayern and PSG both out, the former signing Kane and the latter Gonçalo Ramos and Kolo Muani this summer. No Serie A side can afford to take him on. Man Utd signed Hojlund, Liverpool have Nunez, Newcastle can't because of FFP, and it's unlikely Tottenham would have the spending means either. This really only leaves Arsenal and ourselves. With Arsenal already having Jesus and spending £100m on Rice, they'd certainly have to sell before buying based on what some of their supports have suggested. 

We've got the opening, the need, and the spending means, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. 

[xceleryx]

3 hours ago, kev61 said:

Controversial  Mark.'Enzo is head and shoulders better than any player we have signed recently'.!.

A world cup winner he has to be special....I'm yet to see it.

He is not in the same league as Makelele  and Kante,and if someone(droy) tells me he has a completely different roll in the team I will squeam and squeam.

Not only does Enzo does have a different role in the team, he's also an entirely different from type of player from a Makelele or Kante.

Of course, only you'd think otherwise.

[paulw66]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

 

It is not a dig at you personally, but to be honest its Lady Gaga land dreams now unlike a couple of seasons ago when we were a top club in Europe.

Yeah, we've really struggled to attract players in the last 12 months. 

[CarefreeMuratcan]

2 hours ago, ROTG said:

And how many academy player do the club sell to balance the books ?

Also the club will not pay the wages Osimhen will demand,

Finally I doubt Osimhen would be interested in coming to a mid table PL club

It is not a dig at you personally, but to be honest its Lady Gaga land dreams now unlike a couple of seasons ago when we were a top club in Europe.

All these other lot have come to us despite the chaos. Nkunku, Enzo, Mudryk and Caicedo could have had their pick of clubs. 

[ROTG]

14 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Yeah, we've really struggled to attract players in the last 12 months. 

You a spot on - we have managed to attracted anything under U23 from very average teams, hence the current bizarre position of the club.

[paulw66]

6 minutes ago, ROTG said:

You a spot on - we have managed to attracted anything under U23 from very average teams, hence the current bizarre position of the club.

Mudryk was wanted by Arsenal

Caicedo and Lavia - Liverpool

Enzo would have ended up at a top European club

There is still plenty of pull power. 

[ROTG]

10 minutes ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

All these other lot have come to us despite the chaos. Nkunku, Enzo, Mudryk and Caicedo could have had their pick of clubs. 

You are correct, they signed up for the project and probably thinking Last season was a one off based on the clubs history. Now there is a very high possibility of trying to sign players with the club in a second season of mid table wilderness and a high possibility of another season without European football.

We are not such an attractive club unless you are U23 playing in a mid table team and want security of an 8 year contract. Not forgetting paying high wages is the opposite of Clearlake's idea of companies OPEX

[ROTG]

3 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Mudryk was wanted by Arsenal

Caicedo and Lavia - Liverpool

Enzo would have ended up at a top European club

There is still plenty of pull power. 

Maybe - but let be honest, with probably the exception of Enzo if he had gone to a Spanish team the others were squad fillers and maybe in one or two seasons time might of become a 1st team regular.

Anyway let close this and revisit in May

[paulw66]

Just now, ROTG said:

Maybe - but let be honest, with probably the exception of Enzo if he had gone to a Spanish team the others were squad fillers and maybe in one or two seasons time might of become a 1st team regular.

Anyway let close this and revisit in May

That's all semantics. The point was about pull power. And it is still there. 

Long and short of it; if Oshimen wants out, I wouldn't be shocked if he came here. Not saying he DOES or he WILL.  

[Morgs]

Osimhen will keep us in the Premier League if we can sign him in Jan. 

Question then is what do you do with Jackson, Nkunku, Broja, Washington, Burstow and Lukaku?

Ok so Nkunku stays with the squad as he wont be back til Feb probably. Lukaku is banging the goals in for Roma so hopefully that means they'll sign him permanently. Broja, Burstow and Washington get Championship loans for minutes. Osimhen is then our number nine with Jackson and later Nkunku as cover. 

Sounds simple but it wont be. 

Can we actually sign him? I'm not sure. I don't think he would come to Chelsea. Its not that we cannot attract top stars but come Jan it is possible, I would say likely, that we are in the bottom three. Its one thing not being able to offer CL football for one season but "the project" (God, I'm sick of that word...) will mean no CL football for this season and next season and potentially beyond. 

I think the other issue is the instability and uproar surrounding everything we do. I'm a Chelsea fan of 35+ years now and even I would say, honestly, if my son wanted to play professional football I would council against going anywhere near Chelsea. As a youngster in the youth development I would suggest going elsewhere if possible but if he was an established player at senior level: avoid them like the plague, my son! 

I think the whole edifice is a toxic, wasteful mess. An ugly peon to the power of hubris and the arrogance of money and influence. I mentioned a couple of days ago how I see us going down this year and whilst I didn't elucidate my feelings very concisely, my prediction remains. I truly think we are strongly in real, clear and present danger of going down this season. Poch is already under pressure and will not survive the upcoming run of 10-12 games I don't think.  Everyone and their dog is desperate to play us as its an easy three points. I wont dwell on that as I've gone on about it too many times on here, you all know my feelings on this. 

The thing about Osimhen is that he will still cost 120m+ even if he refuses to ever play for Napoli again and we are one of the few clubs in the world who can pay that and offer him even vaguely competitive wages. But whereas City and the small handful of other clubs in this wealthy group are in a position to make such a move from a standpoint of stability and a guarantee of CL football in so far as any club can have such a  thing, we do not, are not and cannot. There is a managerial merry-go-round and the club's strategy (and those that are making it and implementing it) have been brutally, unflinchingly shown up in the public eye through miles of column inches and millions of articles, as being... how can we put it? *unsuitable*. 

So if you're Osimhen and you have offers from four or five clubs in Jan as now looks likely, you look at the famous and inspirational managers of these clubs and see who you want to play for. Will Poch even still be here in Jan? Hard to say. You are a world class striker with a hunger for goals and success. You can play at a club that fights for trophies and scores goals or you can play for Chelsea where they aren't likely to win anything and cant score goals because everyone knows how to play them, they are unable to beat a low block and you know you'll have no room to work in, no space to run into and no way of creating any. 

Why on earth would you even consider going to Chelsea? 

I'd be amazed if Eghbali managed to sign him. Lets put it that way. 

[Morgs]

37 minutes ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

All these other lot have come to us despite the chaos. Nkunku, Enzo, Mudryk and Caicedo could have had their pick of clubs. 

I'd argue that the sentiment at the time was that we would be right in the mix for top four and on a path to challenge for the league in the mid term.

That is not the case now, I think most would accept. 

[xceleryx]

13 minutes ago, Morgs said:

Osimhen will keep us in the Premier League if we can sign him in Jan. 

Question then is what do you do with Jackson, Nkunku, Broja, Washington, Burstow and Lukaku?

Ok so Nkunku stays with the squad as he wont be back til Feb probably. Lukaku is banging the goals in for Roma so hopefully that means they'll sign him permanently. Broja, Burstow and Washington get Championship loans for minutes. Osimhen is then our number nine with Jackson and later Nkunku as cover. 

Sounds simple but it wont be. 

Can we actually sign him? I'm not sure. I don't think he would come to Chelsea. Its not that we cannot attract top stars but come Jan it is possible, I would say likely, that we are in the bottom three. Its one thing not being able to offer CL football for one season but "the project" (God, I'm sick of that word...) will mean no CL football for this season and next season and potentially beyond. 

I think the other issue is the instability and uproar surrounding everything we do. I'm a Chelsea fan of 35+ years now and even I would say, honestly, if my son wanted to play professional football I would council against going anywhere near Chelsea. As a youngster in the youth development I would suggest going elsewhere if possible but if he was an established player at senior level: avoid them like the plague, my son! 

I think the whole edifice is a toxic, wasteful mess. An ugly peon to the power of hubris and the arrogance of money and influence. I mentioned a couple of days ago how I see us going down this year and whilst I didn't elucidate my feelings very concisely, my prediction remains. I truly think we are strongly in real, clear and present danger of going down this season. Poch is already under pressure and will not survive the upcoming run of 10-12 games I don't think.  Everyone and their dog is desperate to play us as its an easy three points. I wont dwell on that as I've gone on about it too many times on here, you all know my feelings on this. 

The thing about Osimhen is that he will still cost 120m+ even if he refuses to ever play for Napoli again and we are one of the few clubs in the world who can pay that and offer him even vaguely competitive wages. But whereas City and the small handful of other clubs in this wealthy group are in a position to make such a move from a standpoint of stability and a guarantee of CL football in so far as any club can have such a  thing, we do not, are not and cannot. There is a managerial merry-go-round and the club's strategy (and those that are making it and implementing it) have been brutally, unflinchingly shown up in the public eye through miles of column inches and millions of articles, as being... how can we put it? *unsuitable*. 

So if you're Osimhen and you have offers from four or five clubs in Jan as now looks likely, you look at the famous and inspirational managers of these clubs and see who you want to play for. Will Poch even still be here in Jan? Hard to say. You are a world class striker with a hunger for goals and success. You can play at a club that fights for trophies and scores goals or you can play for Chelsea where they aren't likely to win anything and cant score goals because everyone knows how to play them, they are unable to beat a low block and you know you'll have no room to work in, no space to run into and no way of creating any. 

Why on earth would you even consider going to Chelsea? 

I'd be amazed if Eghbali managed to sign him. Lets put it that way. 

We're not going to get relegated, the hyperbole is ridiculous. 

Oshimen has no bearing on Nkunku, who'll play that role in/off the striker ahead or out wide on the left. Nor does it impact Lukaku who quite clearly isn't going to be coming back here to play if that wasn't already clear enough.

Jackson will still see enough game time to develop, it doesn't have to be one or the other. It certainly can't be Jackson alone though, which is basically what it is right now. With neither Broja, Washington, or Burstow being good enough - the latter two have far more time up their sleeve though given their ages. None of these three should stop us from signing Oshimen or any other striker for that matter. 

The rest is just a lot of long winded nothing. We're still a top destination for players to be at, regardless of where we're at right now. Reputation carries weight, and we've got enough of it still up our sleeves to bring good players here that can propel us forward to higher levels. Young players will also have no issue in joining us because even if they aren't destined for a first team place they'll still be receiving a premium education, while seeing just how many players we've produced for other sides. It doesn't have to be this Chelsea or bust narrative that's being put forward. 

End of the day Osihmen isn't likely going to have a queue of clubs trying to sign him, for reasons I broke down earlier when relying to @ROTG. 

[Dwmh]

18 minutes ago, Morgs said:

I think the other issue is the instability and uproar surrounding everything we do. I'm a Chelsea fan of 35+ years now and even I would say, honestly, if my son wanted to play professional football I would council against going anywhere near Chelsea. As a youngster in the youth development I would suggest going elsewhere if possible but if he was an established player at senior level: avoid them like the plague, my son! 

10 years ago I would have said this too.  In fact when a friend in Poland took his son to Palace for a trial 8 years ago I did say avoid Chelsea (which is what he would have liked,) and I said  Southampton was the best choice.  (He is now a regular starter in the Polish top division).

It now looks completely different now (which means it was actually very different already then).    And of course the biggest attraction about going to Cobham is the number of young players who have been shunted off to other PL and Championhip teams.
All these young lads care about is a career in football.  They don't come to Chelsea because they bleed blue, they come because the love playing football and/or want the money only football can bring.  Chelsea recruits all over S England, it is not as though there is some special SW6  or Stoke d'Abernon attraction.
Lamptey, Hall, Livramento, all going off so early to big contracts at medium sized clubs is exactly what the young lads and fathers want to see.  Aina at from a Chelsea pov looks a big disappointment.  From the Aina family pov I'm sure he is a massive success.  and 30 NT caps.

[east lower]

16 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

10 years ago I would have said this too.  In fact when a friend in Poland took his son to Palace for a trial 8 years ago I did say avoid Chelsea (which is what he would have liked,) and I said  Southampton was the best choice.  (He is now a regular starter in the Polish top division).

It now looks completely different now (which means it was actually very different already then).    And of course the biggest attraction about going to Cobham is the number of young players who have been shunted off to other PL and Championhip teams.
All these young lads care about is a career in football.  They don't come to Chelsea because they bleed blue, they come because the love playing football and/or want the money only football can bring.  Chelsea recruits all over S England, it is not as though there is some special SW6  or Stoke d'Abernon attraction.
Lamptey, Hall, Livramento, all going off so early to big contracts at medium sized clubs is exactly what the young lads and fathers want to see.  Aina at from a Chelsea pov looks a big disappointment.  From the Aina family pov I'm sure he is a massive success.  and 30 NT caps.

The Academy has a proven track record at producing professional footballers, mostly for others but as a pure 'function' it is very successful.

If you want your promising child well educated in academic studies, life and football there aren't many better places to send them than the Chelsea Academy (recent past and currently - how things turn-out under the new owners is best-guess, as they've not managed much well to date).

Edited September 27, 2023 by east lower

[Dwmh]

27 minutes ago, east lower said:

The Academy has a proven track record at producing professional footballers, mostly for others but as a pure 'function' it is very successful.

If you want your promising child well educated in academic studies, life and football there aren't many better places to send them than the Chelsea Academy (recent past and currently - how things turn-out under the new owners is best-guess, as they've not managed much well to date).

The other thing the Academy/club are doing much better now is not committing to medium term contracts for players they can't use yet and are not fully proven.  CHO RLC for example.
They are offering lower contracts and getting the timing right.
Hall, Lamptey, Livramento - what ever happens they have made the club a significant profit that can't be undone.
Even Mount, whom I would have loved to stay, has been pure profit for the club both when he played and when he left.
(The loan system also deserves a shout of praise - note our best young players don't get to make a debut till they have come back from loan, the days of JM giving them 20 mins here and there are over).

For lovers of "young Chelsea in the  first team" this is bad news.  But for young players, Finances and the club as a whole this is a huge improvement.

[east lower]

3 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

For lovers of "young Chelsea in the  first team" this is bad news.  But for young players, Finances and the club as a whole this is a huge improvement.

And that's the quantum-leap in thinking that's required - The Academy is a business function first and a funnel for potential Chelsea first-team players second.  It's harsh sounding but very much part of the commercial management of the club overall - Transfer or Loan fees = Pure profit for FFP calculations.

I think Roman and his team figured this out quicker than most, the rest have jumped-on latterly.

[Dwmh]

8 minutes ago, east lower said:

And that's the quantum-leap in thinking that's required - The Academy is a business function first and a funnel for potential Chelsea first-team players second.  It's harsh sounding but very much part of the commercial management of the club overall - Transfer or Loan fees = Pure profit for FFP calculations.

I think Roman and his team figured this out quicker than most, the rest have jumped-on latterly.

Yes - we have been seeing the fruits of the new policies for a few years now, so much of it goest backc 10 years.  

[Holymoly]

2 hours ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

You point to an important, bigger issue.

This whole project is a big gamble in terms of how it’s been done. While the board acted from a good place - we can’t accuse them of not spending! - have we been cast to non-contenders for the next decade? 

They have spent on young players they expect to increase in value not players that will impact the team today in a footballing capacity. Consider a parallel universe where all the signings have paid off and we are sitting at the top of the league with maximum points at Christmas. We would be sitting on a goldmine of young players on insanely long contrats whose values are incresing logarithmically. Those contracts aren't that length to protect them, they are 8-9 years so that we can charge a premium on their prices when we come to sell them. In that parallel universe we may instead find ourselves bemoaning the owners selling the brightest stars to Madrid in January as their values have doubled or tripled.

We are no longer a football club. We have become an investment speculation company and as such I am becoming more relaxed over our current form as it must be making the owners' collective arses twitch something rotten at the moment.

[Morgs]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

We're not going to get relegated, the hyperbole is ridiculous. 

 

I hope you're right mate. Honestly I will be doing cartwheels if we stay up. 

I maintain we are bang in a fight though, I really do. But lets see. I think its important to see it as a timeline - as things stand, no we aren't going down.

But how does it go from here?

In my scenario, we get 5 or less points from our next 30 and go into Christmas with a manager under huge pressure and a points tally that puts us very much in the danger zone. The turmoil continues, the club bins Poch in Jan , cannot to anything meaningful to arrest the slide in the Jan window and suddenly things don't look great do they? The players down tools, the situation seems hopeless, the media have an absolute field day rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of us going down, the officials start making some "odd" decisions in our games  and a lot of our good players start speaking to their agents about a move. I could absolutely see us going down in this scenario. 

If you're right, we go into the next ten games, scoring a couple here and there and end up winning at places like Fulham, Burnley, Everton and we beat Brentford and perhaps Brighton at home. We compete against Arsenal, United, Spurs, Newcastle and Man City, we don't get hammered by anyone and build up a bit of confidence, taking 12-15 points from the 30 on offer. The pressure eases on Poch and we get through to Jan to buy a striker in okay shape, chasing a 10-12th place position and seeing some of the new players bed in a bit. Injuries ease and Nkunku comes back. 

Neither of us know how this is going to go for sure but I much prefer your scenario to mine. 🤣

[xceleryx]

29 minutes ago, Morgs said:

I hope you're right mate. Honestly I will be doing cartwheels if we stay up. 

I maintain we are bang in a fight though, I really do. But lets see. I think its important to see it as a timeline - as things stand, no we aren't going down.

But how does it go from here?

In my scenario, we get 5 or less points from our next 30 and go into Christmas with a manager under huge pressure and a points tally that puts us very much in the danger zone. The turmoil continues, the club bins Poch in Jan , cannot to anything meaningful to arrest the slide in the Jan window and suddenly things don't look great do they? The players down tools, the situation seems hopeless, the media have an absolute field day rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of us going down, the officials start making some "odd" decisions in our games  and a lot of our good players start speaking to their agents about a move. I could absolutely see us going down in this scenario. 

If you're right, we go into the next ten games, scoring a couple here and there and end up winning at places like Fulham, Burnley, Everton and we beat Brentford and perhaps Brighton at home. We compete against Arsenal, United, Spurs, Newcastle and Man City, we don't get hammered by anyone and build up a bit of confidence, taking 12-15 points from the 30 on offer. The pressure eases on Poch and we get through to Jan to buy a striker in okay shape, chasing a 10-12th place position and seeing some of the new players bed in a bit. Injuries ease and Nkunku comes back. 

Neither of us know how this is going to go for sure but I much prefer your scenario to mine. 🤣

Have you actually watched the sides in the relegation zone play this season? Even with our current issues we're not that bad.

There's virtually little to gain by creating a fictional timeline of what may or may not happen from here on out though. The amount of variables to be had just cannot be accommodated for. As a logical thinker getting worked up above either makes little sense to me, which is why I find the fascination some have with taking the dive into the deep end that they have such an odd occurrence. Different strokes though I suppose. 

We'll see what unfolds over the coming months. 

[chrisb]

@Morgs, to be fair mate I’d prefer any scenario other than yours! 😂

[Morgs]

8 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Have you actually watched the sides in the relegation zone play this season? Even with our current issues we're not that bad.

There's virtually little to gain by creating a fictional timeline of what may or may not happen from here on out though. The amount of variables to be had just cannot be accommodated for. As a logical thinker getting worked up above either makes little sense to me, which is why I find the fascination some have with taking the dive into the deep end that they have such an odd occurrence. Different strokes though I suppose. 

We'll see what unfolds over the coming months. 

Its my job mate. I get paid to analyse, see trends and predict outcomes and then make risk calls against what I see.  Not in football but it is an unfortunate tendency and it has cost me friends and relationships over the years. I'm aware of how annoying it is to others, but it is a difficult thing to turn off in my brain.  Lots of nights at 3am staring at the ceiling being hyperfixated on one thing or another, wresting with variables and causal effects. 

Onwards and upwards mate. 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Morgs

[chiswickblue]

Osimhen's contract is up in 2025 - January or next summer will be the time to go big on him.