Transfer Talk Topic

[Mark Kelly]

53 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Honestly I am happy we are buying these talents. 16-18 year olds - brilliant - still time to grow a lot. Kendry Paez looks sick and we have stolen a march on big clubs.

I would rather we bought 16-18 year olds and some actual experienced seniors than these 21-23 year olds who have already found their level. 

Imagine how good we'll be in the Championship where these tiny boys will at least learn how to fly. 

[blueboy1905]

1 hour ago, Miguelito07 said:

Like this guy? 🤦‍♂️

 

Christ on a stick, not another kid who we'll  probably never likely to see playing in the first eleven anytime soon. It's like me buying double glazing when there is a big f**king hole in my roof.

[Ham]

3 hours ago, blueboy1905 said:

Christ on a stick, not another kid who we'll  probably never likely to see playing in the first eleven anytime soon. It's like me buying double glazing when there is a big f**king hole in my roof.

Fear not....

 

 

[Original 21]

6 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Telegraph today reporting we are looking at 2-3 new signings funded by outgoings. 

January outgoings I can think of will likely be of fringe players: Chalobah, Ian Maatsen, Malang Sarr, Madueke, Broja on loan. Not sure how this will finance Osimhen, never mind two others. 

[xceleryx]

7 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

My assumption. Based on what is out there on our revenue and what we've reportedly spent (so nothing I'd base anything more robust than a post here on!) but I'd nonetheless feel confident that another huge buy when we're clearly not getting CL money next season feels at best dangerous.

That's fair. Don't necessarily see it the same way myself, I think we'll still be able to buy big if we choose to do so on a particular player but it'll be a more calculated decision and not in the same manner as we've done thus far. It may mean having to sell first to fund, which is also part of why we've invested in a lot of young talent in those more manageable price ranges. We could sell a Casadei for example, someone that cost us around £12m and is on low wages, and likely generate profit from. These are the type of transfers we've made that'll possibly allow us to keep offsetting costs as we need, that's why we'll continue to stock up on young talent moving forward regardless of the position we're in. 

While it does feel rather Football Manager-ish, it is a proactive and reasonable approach to take. In ways, kind of an extension of the loan system method we used for years but as been harder to implement with the new loan limits in place. 

[xceleryx]

54 minutes ago, Original 21 said:

January outgoings I can think of will likely be of fringe players: Chalobah, Ian Maatsen, Malang Sarr, Madueke, Broja on loan. Not sure how this will finance Osimhen, never mind two others. 

We should be selling Broja, not loaning him out. Realistically, this should've been done after he returned from his Southampton loan but alas. He'd have to have one rapid and almighty up curve in development to be at a level we realistically seek. The rest can all go and barely have roles as its. Madueke is maybe the only one that's shown a little something, but it's so minimal that it doesn't outweigh the injuries and lack of overall impact he generally showcases. 

[Dwmh]

19 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

While it does feel rather Football Manager-ish, it is a proactive and reasonable approach to take. In ways, kind of an extension of the loan system method we used for years but as been harder to implement with the new loan limits in place. 

The loan system wasn't all good.  Strong in getting talent games (mostly).  Very poor in generating revenue from senior purchases who didn't make it with us in their first year.  Sometimes a cause of good things other times a symptom of failures.

[Original 21]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

We should be selling Broja, not loaning him out. Realistically, this should've been done after he returned from his Southampton loan but alas. He'd have to have one rapid and almighty up curve in development to be at a level we realistically seek. The rest can all go and barely have roles as its. Madueke is maybe the only one that's shown a little something, but it's so minimal that it doesn't outweigh the injuries and lack of overall impact he generally showcases. 

Agree about Broja. I just think with him coming off the back of a bad injury and having barely played this season, I can’t see too many clubs wanting to take him outright. Maybe a loan with an option to buy might actually see us getting a decent fee for him. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Original 21

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

That's fair. Don't necessarily see it the same way myself, I think we'll still be able to buy big if we choose to do so on a particular player but it'll be a more calculated decision and not in the same manner as we've done thus far. It may mean having to sell first to fund, which is also part of why we've invested in a lot of young talent in those more manageable price ranges. We could sell a Casadei for example, someone that cost us around £12m and is on low wages, and likely generate profit from. These are the type of transfers we've made that'll possibly allow us to keep offsetting costs as we need, that's why we'll continue to stock up on young talent moving forward regardless of the position we're in. 

So where in your strawman do you take into account the duds on 8 year contracts, and how do punt them at a profit.

Example,  Mudueke cost 34m, he's is not better than CHO and his sale value would be around the same. I guess it is better we keep clear of Mudryk's valuation?

Only real profit are HG and that pool is almost dry.

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

Madueke is maybe the only one that's shown a little something,

I guess you been smoking the Jamaican roll ups again - Toilet player no better than CHO

[xceleryx]

3 hours ago, Original 21 said:

Agree about Broja. I just think with him coming off the back of a bad injury and having barely played this season, I can’t see too many clubs wanting to take him outright. Maybe a loan with an option to buy might actually see us getting a decent fee for him. 

You're likely right, he's a harder sell in his current state then he was after that Southampton loan. That said, we're kinda capped on the loan front right now, we'd have to make some changes there first before Broja would be able to go out himself. We're also going to lose Jackson for 4 games or so with the ACON, and if we're not getting in another CF during the January window then Broja is likely going to have to stay. 

Might just have to wait until the summer to sort properly. 

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, ROTG said:

So where in your strawman do you take into account the duds on 8 year contracts, and how do punt them at a profit.

Example,  Mudueke cost 34m, he's is not better than CHO and his sale value would be around the same. I guess it is better we keep clear of Mudryk's valuation?

Only real profit are HG and that pool is almost dry.

Where did I say every transfer we made will turn a profit? Quite clearly I was addressing a specific type of transfer we've been making, which includes a lot of those out on loan who aren't quit part of the first team yet and were signed in that sort of 10-20 million bracket on low wages - as shown by my Casadei example. 

But you keep playing your usual game of twister. 

[ROTG]

6 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Where did I say every transfer we made will turn a profit? Quite clearly I was addressing a specific type of transfer we've been making, which includes a lot of those out on loan who aren't quit part of the first team yet and were signed in that sort of 10-20 million bracket on low wages - as shown by my Casadei example. 

But you keep playing your usual game of twister. 

The question is how many Casadei do the club have to sell to make up the potential losses on a player like Madueke?

[xceleryx]

6 hours ago, ROTG said:

The question is how many Casadei do the club have to sell to make up the potential losses on a player like Madueke?

Madueke cost around £28.5m to purchase and signed an 8 year deal. Divide the cost over the contract length and that's an on book value of £3.56m per season. Then you tack on his wage costs, around £50k per week by reports, or £2.6m per year, for however many years he completes here before being sold. Right now his rough yearly cost to the club is £3.88m.

Circling back to your question about how many Casadei's do the club have to sell to make up the "losses" on a player like Madueke, the answer is simple, not bloody many. 

[johnstockton]

11 hours ago, Original 21 said:

January outgoings I can think of will likely be of fringe players: Chalobah, Ian Maatsen, Malang Sarr, Madueke, Broja on loan. Not sure how this will finance Osimhen, never mind two others. 

I think we will send Broja on loan in January transfer window .

West Ham United linked with shock Armando Broja move

He is really good striker, but he needs more games. Six months loan could be great for him and for the club.

About Madueke, I think he should start more games in the next period.

[ROTG]

13 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Madueke cost around £28.5m to purchase and signed an 8 year deal. Divide the cost over the contract length and that's an on book value of £3.56m per season. Then you tack on his wage costs, around £50k per week by reports, or £2.6m per year, for however many years he completes here before being sold. Right now his rough yearly cost to the club is £3.88m.

Circling back to your question about how many Casadei's do the club have to sell to make up the "losses" on a player like Madueke, the answer is simple, not bloody many. 

Again not really answering the question. If madueke goes next summer I think that might be a tad nearer £25m to recover less any transfer fee.

[xceleryx]

11 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Again not really answering the question. If madueke goes next summer I think that might be a tad nearer £25m to recover less any transfer fee.

No, it answered the question. You just don't like the answer you got. 

[Dwmh]

44 minutes ago, johnstockton said:

I think we will send Broja on loan in January transfer window .

West Ham United linked with shock Armando Broja move

He is really good striker, but he needs more games. Six months loan could be great for him and for the club.

I think he is the kind of striker that looks really good at 20 and then takes until he is 28 before he reaches top level.  Achieving selfishness, calmness in finishing, conservation of energy  in spite of the coach.  From 30 on he is a back up striker for a bottom half Prem team till he is 35.  I'm thinking a Chris Wood type of player.

In other words this is not a good time to own him.

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

No, it answered the question. You just don't like the answer you got. 

Not at all, your calculations assumed Madueke will be at the club for 8 years, which is slightly far fetched. Unless you were assuming Strasbourg is a nice city for Madueke.  

 

[Bison]

If my worst employee tried to make a referral I'd give him a disciplinary,

[Dwmh]

23 minutes ago, Bison said:

If my worst employee tried to make a referral I'd give him a disciplinary,

You go away on an international break.  You are a star so you do interviews.  A young lad is breaking into the team and the press ask is he any good.  Should he move to the Prem?  Should Chelsea be interested in him?  What do you say.
Piece written - anyone who thinks it means something has lost the plot.

There is an extremely good reason for guys 18-25 to get out of Ukraine fast.  Nothing to do with Universities or Sport.  They haven't been called up yet because Ukraine is so short of people that age because so few were born in the very tough 1990s.  That is changing.

[Dwmh]

Actually it probably isn't even that.
Someone has re-read an old interview with Sudakov from 3 weeks ago.
https://archive.is/6zVYQ

Quote

Sudakov compares his style of play to “James Maddison at Tottenham and Phil Foden”, and believes his friend and ex-team-mate, Mykhailo Mudryk, is missing him at Chelsea.

“Misha is my close friend and we talk a lot,” said Sudakov. “I already received some precious advice from him, in case I move to England. How to adapt, how it’s not easy to get into the pace of the game, so for me it’s very useful advice.

“He recommends moving to a top championship like the Premier League as quickly as possible because to develop your game it helps to adapt more quickly, physically and psychologically. Misha has got huge potential and perhaps one of the reasons why you didn’t see him at the top level in England yet is because he is saying there is not such a player like a Sudakov who constantly delivers with top passes and assists for him!”

 

[hallgalley]

8 hours ago, johnstockton said:

I think we will send Broja on loan in January transfer window .

West Ham United linked with shock Armando Broja move

He is really good striker, but he needs more games. Six months loan could be great for him and for the club.

About Madueke, I think he should start more games in the next period.

Cant go without a striker while Jackson is at AFCON

Edited November 28, 2023 by hallgalley
Spelling

[blueboy1905]

I'm not sure loaning Broja out in January is a great idea considering we have InAction Jackson who makes Salomon Kalou look like Alan Shearer. All this talk of Nkunku saving the day is hypothetical. He has not played one minute of Premier league football and yet he has been spoken of as the second coming, coming off a serious injury. Anyone remember Timo Werner ?

[chara]

I have yet to see Broja show that he is a long term employee...giving a slight benefit of the doubt due to coming back of injury and International appearances... maybe third back up at best as it stands although not that much in front of him is there.

I suspect he is in the Solanke, Carlton Cole type bracket....just about good enough for a small'ish club or lower league but not good enough for a high flying side, a not unusual final analysis of many graduates.

I don't see enough or have enough knowledge of lower divisions but are the days of lower league purchases, particularily strikers, long gone?

Too big a gap ? just not the talent or what?....genuine question.

When will we see the "new" keeper on show ?

Years ago I was told by a "terrier man" up North.."Folks don't sell good dogs,"..so Toney?