Transfer Talk Topic

[ROTG]

6 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Sign "Brighton" players, complain about signing mid-table players.

Look to sign a higher calibre of player from a good club that comes at a greater financial cost (as expected), complain about a lack of personal ambition of the player and criticise ownership for financing it.

There is literally no pleasing you. 

Then whenever pressed to provide what you actually want, it's radio silence or excuses.

We are no longer a top team thanks to the recruitment you support. Therefore CL football is not coming our way in the near future. if you are a top player why would you come to a club like Chelsea with its bonkers policies and ideas. 
Maybe it’s the case Osimhen is not a good as you say, with Chelsea or KSA being his only options, because the elite clubs don’t fancy him. 
As for who the club needed that ship sailed the day TB let Brighton and Southampton ex-scouts do the recruitment for an elite European team and turning them into mid table PL team.

Sooner rather than later people will realise the precarious position of the team is not the coaches fault, with the blame lying with the gang of three clown and their recruitment. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by ROTG
Can’t wait to see who on the shopping list this January with the new championship scout in place.

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

We are no longer a top team thanks to the recruitment you support. Therefore CL football is not coming our way in the near future. if you are a top player why would you come to a club like Chelsea with its bonkers policies and ideas. 
Maybe it’s the case Osimhen is not a good as you say, with Chelsea or KSA being his only options, because the elite clubs don’t fancy him. 
As for who the club needed that ship sailed the day TB let Brighton and Southampton ex-scouts do the recruitment for an elite European team and turning them into mid table PL team.

Sooner rather than later people will realise the precarious position of the team is not the coaches fault, with the blame lying with the gang of three clown and their recruitment. 

Dodging the question asked yet again, just like clockwork. 

[Original 21]

I think the biggest mistake the Board made was not signing a top striker after Nkunku got injured. Going into the season with only Jackson and an unfit Broja has been a disaster, as many feared. Yes, one can criticise the signing of players like Mudryk, Madueke,  Big Les. It’s all been a bit scattergun, a bit like chucking things against the wall and seeing what sticks. 

But injuries to key players hasn’t  helped: Fofana, James, Chilwell. Lavia, Badashiele, Chukwa. Then Caicedo missing games due to the international break. Enzo having to play every game. Silva having to play every game. It’s not a surprise that the team is an incoherent mess. 

I don’t think Poch can be properly judged under the circumstances. But there’s only so much you can do if your only option upfront has been an untested Jackson, who’s not ready to do the job that was asked of him, a shedload of injuries, and some questionable signings Poch had no control over. 

We might have to write off this season as a learning curve for all concerned, get rid of those who don’t look up to it, and bring in two or three more proven players going forward. I think we’ll be better prepared for next season as a result of all this trauma. We’re not that far away once everyone is fit. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Original 21

[Max Fowler]

43 minutes ago, Original 21 said:

I think the biggest mistake the Board made was not signing a top striker after Nkunku got injured. Going into the season with only Jackson and an unfit Broja has been a disaster, as many feared. Yes, one can criticise the signing of players like Mudryk, Madueke,  Big Les. It’s all been a bit scattergun, a bit like chucking things against the wall and seeing what sticks. 

But injuries to key players hasn’t  helped: Fofana, James, Chilwell. Lavia, Badashiele, Chukwa. Then Caicedo missing games due to the international break. Enzo having to play every game. Silva having to play every game. It’s not a surprise that the team is an incoherent mess. 

I don’t think Poch can be properly judged under the circumstances. But there’s only so much you can do if your only option upfront has been an untested Jackson, who’s not ready to do the job that was asked of him, a shedload of injuries, and some questionable signings Poch had no control over. 

We might have to write off this season as a learning curve for all concerned, get rid of those who don’t look up to it, and bring in two or three more proven players going forward. I think we’ll be better prepared for next season as a result of all this trauma. We’re not that far away once everyone is fit. 

Problem is, I don't think the board has got the memo yet about buying more proven players (could be wrong). For me the injuries were always a poor excuse as our forward line was well short after our disastrous goalscoring exploits last season. Madueke, Mudryk and Broja were never likely to be relied on - we added Jackson who nearly joined Bournemouth 6 months earlier.

IMO we should be overinvesting in forward areas - I would push for another three top forward players with some of the above mentioned being sold or going out on loan. Board seems to think we'll be okay with just the one but we never seem to learn. I agree though that this isn't Poch's fault - he's been dealt a poor set of cards although this is the game he signed up for.

[Dwmh]

9 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

IMO we should be overinvesting in forward areas - I would push for another three top forward players with some of the above mentioned being sold or going out on loan.

Summer 22 when we has just had a good season with a good team which might have been improved with a striker yes.  Going from 74 to 84 points requires a top striker.
Summer 23 when we were already a crap team, and it becomes irrelevant.  One buys CBs and ball winning midfielders to go from 44 to 54 points which is as much as the current lot can hope for.
An optimist might say we can get to 70 points by 25/26 and can consider a top striker then.
And a realist would point out that no top striker will join us if we haven't reached 70 points already.

 

15 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Problem is, I don't think the board has got the memo yet about buying more proven players

It wrote the memo saying proven old-timers must be got rid immediately.  Kovacic and Azpi are at CL clubs.  Someone appreciates them.  
It is mature players a team on the slide needs.

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

And a realist would point out that no top striker will join us if we haven't reached 70 points already.

We have picked up top players already without having the points.

I think we can get a top striker in Summer / January, but will it be enough?

[My Blood Is Blue]

On 29/11/2023 at 10:17, Max Fowler said:

This.

 

 

I have been saying this for months now. It is so painfully obvious. 

[Dwmh]

58 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

We have picked up top players already without having the points.

Really?  Who was that then?
The only top players I can think of are Sterling and Enzo.  Indeed since i don't watch the WC or suscribe to Simon Phillips Twitter  the only players we have bought under the Creamcakes who I knew much of was Sterling.

Cucurella I knew had hair and was busy.  Palmer was a kid at City - I'd never seen him, and Lavia had a good review in one game.  Koulibaly's name I knew of because so many on here claiming Fabrizio Romano had promised we were going to buy him  (I'm talking 2018, 2019 & 2020, not 2022).
And three of those names joined when we were coming off a 74 point season.

Plenty of Maduekes.

[Max Fowler]

6 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

Really?  Who was that then?
The only top players I can think of are Sterling and Enzo.  Indeed since i don't watch the WC or suscribe to Simon Phillips Twitter  the only players we have bought under the Creamcakes who I knew much of was Sterling.

Cucurella I knew had hair and was busy.  Palmer was a kid at City - I'd never seen him, and Lavia had a good review in one game.  Koulibaly's name I knew of because so many on here claiming Fabrizio Romano had promised we were going to buy him  (I'm talking 2018, 2019 & 2020, not 2022).
And three of those names joined when we were coming off a 74 point season.

Plenty of Maduekes.

Caicedo the main example you miss. Claiming him and Lavia off Liverpool is a coup we can repeat in subsequent windows.

Chelsea is still a great club in a great part of London.

[Dwmh]

12 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Caicedo the main example you miss. Claiming him and Lavia off Liverpool is a coup we can repeat in subsequent windows.

 

Never really heard of him till the transfer rumours.  I like him here, but there were plenty better well known names at Brighton last season.  He seems to have replaced Bissouma (who was better known) after he left for Spurs for I guess a much lower fee.

I wonder what Dunk, Ferguson Trossard or Mitoma would have cost us - I've heard of them.  Let alone Macallister, somehow Liverpool managed to buy a WC winning CM from Brighton for £55m including extras (some say).

We got a WC winner and a Brighton midfielder for £100m ....    . ... each.

21 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Chelsea is still a great club in a great part of London.

You don't have to train at Cobham to live in Chelsea.
A footballers top career is 8-10 years.
Chelsea is years off being a great club.  Probably 3 years off being a CL entrant.
Superstar 22 yos should be leaving us, not joining us

 

[Max Fowler]

One thing that I found interesting is looking at our squad written down.

https://www.premierleague.com/clubs/4/Chelsea/squad

On paper, it looks quite balanced and I can sort of see how the owners think it is nearly complete.

I mentioned at least three players I think we need to add in forward areas:

• A winger
• A creative (attacking) midfielder
• A striker

The board seem to think we only need one of the three - a striker (maybe we go for Olise in the summer).

Why is this? They trust strongly and are keeping the faith in Mudryk and I think believe Enzo / Chukwuemeka can step up as the creative attacking midfielder.

Therefore, if we want to step up to CL places and above we are not only relying on a top striker coming in and Nkunku coming back, but the following players stepping up massively:

• Mudryk
• Enzo
• Chukwuemeka (once back)
• Madueke / Jackson as backup

None of those IMO can be relied upon and we should be selling / sending them out on loan. Getting in experienced winners to replace them. But maybe that was never the board's plan and we just have to hope they step up. 

Poch's job may well depend on it - and frankly if he can't get more out of them soon he will need to go anyway.

[Max Fowler]

2 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

I wonder what Dunk, Ferguson Trossard or Mitoma would have cost us - I've heard of them.  Let alone Macallister, somehow Liverpool managed to buy a WC winning CM from Brighton for £55m including extras (some say)

Caicedo was insane last season - I think he has way more potential than MacAllister.

We have seen it in glimpses this season - some tackles out of nowhere - absolutely dominating the play against Arsenal.

He can really have an impact for us like Kante - all over the pitch controlling the game.

[chara]

3 hours ago, Dwmh said:

It wrote the memo saying proven old-timers must be got rid immediately.  Kovacic and Azpi are at CL clubs.  Someone appreciates them.  
It is mature players a team on the slide needs.

I agree whole heartedly with the last line  but your two examples maybe are not the best examples..imho...Dave was struggling at the end although appreciated and looked upon with great affection by all really went at the right time for all concerned...Kova would still be the same ole same ole player if he was here and of little positive impact on the present setup...again imho...

The "grittyy" Henderson type players are few and far between...the last hurrah as was the original Silva purchase. but who would you bring in from outside in the "missing" senior/veteran pool?

I appreciate that you were not touting Kova and Dave as specific examples but,again, who would you (or anyone) bring in from outside to fill the "missing" senior/veteran (two different inputs) positions?

Added,,to quote Max,,,"the board seem to think we need only one of three."

Is it it the board or the "Football Experts" brought in to advise the board?

Smile..I can pass on my keeper views on here with hopefully some sense occasionally,,,related to the Forum...ask say Pat Jennings or the top keeper of your choice and they DO know and put my words where they belong,,not at a top club advising from a lesser level..in my case extreme lesser level!.....see what I mean?

Edited November 30, 2023 by chara

[xceleryx]

14 hours ago, Original 21 said:

I think the biggest mistake the Board made was not signing a top striker after Nkunku got injured. Going into the season with only Jackson and an unfit Broja has been a disaster, as many feared. Yes, one can criticise the signing of players like Mudryk, Madueke,  Big Les. It’s all been a bit scattergun, a bit like chucking things against the wall and seeing what sticks. 

But injuries to key players hasn’t  helped: Fofana, James, Chilwell. Lavia, Badashiele, Chukwa. Then Caicedo missing games due to the international break. Enzo having to play every game. Silva having to play every game. It’s not a surprise that the team is an incoherent mess. 

I don’t think Poch can be properly judged under the circumstances. But there’s only so much you can do if your only option upfront has been an untested Jackson, who’s not ready to do the job that was asked of him, a shedload of injuries, and some questionable signings Poch had no control over. 

We might have to write off this season as a learning curve for all concerned, get rid of those who don’t look up to it, and bring in two or three more proven players going forward. I think we’ll be better prepared for next season as a result of all this trauma. We’re not that far away once everyone is fit. 

The million dollar question with all this though is who would we have signed to fit that top striker profile in the summer? 

We were linked with Vlahovic for a bit but he's continued to struggle this season and probably wouldn't have been the most ideal fitting type of forward. Levy would've walked over hot coals before selling Kane to us, and I doubt he'd have joined anyway even if he'd have been ideal. The other strikers that did move aren't particularly of that proven top mould and still came at a ridiculously premium price - Muani for like £90m to PSG and only has 3 goals so far this season. Hojlund was like £70m, still only 20, and has still yet to score. The pickings were, and still largely are, slim. 

[xceleryx]

9 hours ago, Dwmh said:

Let alone Macallister, somehow Liverpool managed to buy a WC winning CM from Brighton for £55m including extras (some say).

He was cheap because he had a release clause in his contract, normal circumstances would've seen him go for a heck of a lot more. 

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

The million dollar question with all this though is who would we have signed to fit that top striker profile in the summer? 

We were linked with Vlahovic for a bit but he's continued to struggle this season and probably wouldn't have been the most ideal fitting type of forward. Levy would've walked over hot coals before selling Kane to us, and I doubt he'd have joined anyway even if he'd have been ideal. The other strikers that did move aren't particularly of that proven top mould and still came at a ridiculously premium price - Muani for like £90m to PSG and only has 3 goals so far this season. Hojlund was like £70m, still only 20, and has still yet to score. The pickings were, and still largely are, slim. 

The problem is - I don't think the board didn't go for another striker because there are slim pickings; they didn't go for another striker because of poor squad planning. The same is going on now with us looking at centre-halves.

If no central strikers fit the mould then they could have gone for additional wingers or even creative midfielders. It's plainly obvious that 200 million of spending on Lavia, Caicedo and Ugochukwu is not going to get many goals.

Our biggest problem has been scoring - so we should have over-invested in players capable of contributing goals and assists. It depends how much we wanted top five - I think the board thinks they easily did enough in the summer.

Quietly De Zerbi is doing another great job despite selling key players and coping with Europe. If we don't improve under Poch when Nkunku comes back I am starting to think we should absolutely look at getting RDZ for next season.

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

The problem is - I don't think the board didn't go for another striker because there are slim pickings; they didn't go for another striker because of poor squad planning. The same is going on now with us looking at centre-halves.

If no central strikers fit the mould then they could have gone for additional wingers or even creative midfielders. It's plainly obvious that 200 million of spending on Lavia, Caicedo and Ugochukwu is not going to get many goals.

Our biggest problem has been scoring - so we should have over-invested in players capable of contributing goals and assists. It depends how much we wanted top five - I think the board thinks they easily did enough in the summer.

Quietly De Zerbi is doing another great job despite selling key players and coping with Europe. If we don't improve under Poch when Nkunku comes back I am starting to think we should absolutely look at getting RDZ for next season.

Wouldn't it be good squad planning to not rush out and sign a striker for the sake of doing so? More so in a striker market that's as bone dry as the current one is and no one of interest was available/feasible. 

We also need to consider the Lukaku sized problem we had to contend with. This was only resolved right at the end of the window, which absolutely had an impact on our plans for upfront. 

While I would've loved an additional winger or creative midfielder to come in, maybe there wasn't the options out there that took our interest or were genuinely obtainable with the time left. In contrast the more defensive minded midfield options we did pick up were, and still fit within the objective of our plans. And really, it's not as if we didn't have some degree on interest in other attacking players - Olise springs to mind. 

You have to keep in mind that we've virtually rebuilt and entire team, we were never going to satisfactorily amend every position of need. There's still holes in key areas no doubt, and I'm sure that they'll be looked at in the coming windows (or at least I hope), but expecting everything addressed at once was always highly optimistic. 

De Zerbi is going well, no qualms there. But we're a vastly different prospect to what he's got going on at Brighton, even if they've lost key players and retooled. They still possess an established team with both experience and proven qualities. We're at the opposite end of the spectrum in that regard. Then you throw in the amount of injuries we've had, particularly to key players, and have still yet not been able to field our best eleven (on paper at least) despite it now being December shouldn't be overlooked. 

We need to be careful chopping and changing managers in our circumstances, we're going to need a period of stability to allow things to settle - both from a player and managerial position. Pochettino has a contract until 2025, which for me is an important thing to note. Unless we're fighting for survival or something to that extreme I anticipate Poch to see out that deal. Whether we then deem he's shown enough for an extension we'll have to wait and see, but it does at least give us the ability to pivot should that decision be made.

But yeah, we shall see what unfolds moving forward. Nothing I've seen thus far raises enough concerns, or comes as any great surprise,  per what I originally expected. It's more or less what I anticipated from the beginning. 

[ROTG]

4 hours ago, xceleryx said:

The million dollar question with all this though is who would we have signed to fit that top striker profile in the summer? 

 

We already have one who's scored 10 in 26 this season, and is tailored made for the Poch style of play.

[ROTG]

4 hours ago, xceleryx said:

He was cheap because he had a release clause in his contract, normal circumstances would've seen him go for a heck of a lot more. 

Evidence that would have been the case?

5 hours ago, xceleryx said:

We were linked with Vlahovic for a bit but he's continued to struggle this season and probably wouldn't have been the most ideal fitting type of forward

He is the exactly the type of forward require who is not one dimensional and is better suited to play against low block teams

 

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

Olise springs to mind. 

Another top draw signing keep it up

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

You have to keep in mind that we've virtually rebuilt and entire team, we were never going to satisfactorily amend every position of need. There's still holes in key areas no doubt, and I'm sure that they'll be looked at in the coming windows (or at least I hope), but expecting everything addressed at once was always highly optimistic. 

How many more billions does the recruitment dept have to waste to make a top 4 team. "with the current recruitment team they could spend another zillion and the team would be no better. Mid PL table and championship scouts = Elite team fall from grace

1 hour ago, xceleryx said:

We need to be careful chopping and changing managers in our circumstances, we're going to need a period of stability to allow things to settle - both from a player and managerial position. Pochettino has a contract until 2025, which for me is an important thing to note. Unless we're fighting for survival or something to that extreme I anticipate Poch to see out that deal. Whether we then deem he's shown enough for an extension we'll have to wait and see, but it does at least give us the ability to pivot should that decision be made.

But yeah, we shall see what unfolds moving forward. Nothing I've seen thus far raises enough concerns, or comes as any great surprise,  per what I originally expected. It's more or less what I anticipated from the beginning. 

Upstairs is where the problem lies, with poor Management a decision makers

You really need to take those rose tinted glasses off, so you can see the train wreck at Chelsea

 

JY Says - BFN

[Max Fowler]

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

Wouldn't it be good squad planning to not rush out and sign a striker for the sake of doing so? More so in a striker market that's as bone dry as the current one is and no one of interest was available/feasible. 

We also need to consider the Lukaku sized problem we had to contend with. This was only resolved right at the end of the window, which absolutely had an impact on our plans for upfront. 

While I would've loved an additional winger or creative midfielder to come in, maybe there wasn't the options out there that took our interest or were genuinely obtainable with the time left. In contrast the more defensive minded midfield options we did pick up were, and still fit within the objective of our plans. And really, it's not as if we didn't have some degree on interest in other attacking players - Olise springs to mind. 

You have to keep in mind that we've virtually rebuilt and entire team, we were never going to satisfactorily amend every position of need. There's still holes in key areas no doubt, and I'm sure that they'll be looked at in the coming windows (or at least I hope), but expecting everything addressed at once was always highly optimistic. 

De Zerbi is going well, no qualms there. But we're a vastly different prospect to what he's got going on at Brighton, even if they've lost key players and retooled. They still possess an established team with both experience and proven qualities. We're at the opposite end of the spectrum in that regard. Then you throw in the amount of injuries we've had, particularly to key players, and have still yet not been able to field our best eleven (on paper at least) despite it now being December shouldn't be overlooked. 

We need to be careful chopping and changing managers in our circumstances, we're going to need a period of stability to allow things to settle - both from a player and managerial position. Pochettino has a contract until 2025, which for me is an important thing to note. Unless we're fighting for survival or something to that extreme I anticipate Poch to see out that deal. Whether we then deem he's shown enough for an extension we'll have to wait and see, but it does at least give us the ability to pivot should that decision be made.

But yeah, we shall see what unfolds moving forward. Nothing I've seen thus far raises enough concerns, or comes as any great surprise,  per what I originally expected. It's more or less what I anticipated from the beginning. 

I agree with you on most things Celery but I just think you could be more critical of the board. Our plans were not to spend 115 million on Caicedo having spent the whole summer refusing to pay 100.

I don't deny we've undergone a massive positive overhaul but again it comes back to your and the club's expectations. You don't mind finishing eighth (neither do I now) yet all we hear from the club is this squad is clearly good enough for top four.

This may have met your expectations, but the club is scratching their heads. 

Injuries have always been a poor excuse. Caicedo and James were back at the weekend and did nothing to help. By the way - Brighton have a ton of injuries of their own - will we pick up the win at the weekend?

I don't think we didn't get more forwards because they weren't available - it's because we thought that the options we had would be good enough and yet they have proved to be well short. Let's see if Nkunku can save us.

 

 

[Max Fowler]

When the right forward "isn't available" - you make him available @xceleryx

 

 

[Sciatika]

Who will we sell to offset the cost? Chalobah, Maatsen, Madueke, Broja and Washington?

[Max Fowler]

22 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

Who will we sell to offset the cost? Chalobah, Maatsen, Madueke, Broja and Washington?

Assume we wouldn't sell Washington. 
My sense is that we have enough wiggle room to get a couple more decent signings (Osimhen + Guehi) in.
(should we sell two of the above)

I just wish that 60 million wasn't going on Guehi and was going on another attacking option instead.

[ROTG]

31 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

3 hours ago, xceleryx said:

I agree with you on most things Celery but I just think you could be more critical of the board. Our plans were not to spend 115 million on Caicedo having spent the whole summer refusing to pay 100.

I don't deny we've undergone a massive positive overhaul but again it comes back to your and the club's expectations. You don't mind finishing eighth (neither do I now) yet all we hear from the club is this squad is clearly good enough for top four.

 

You really believe after spending a billion 8th is acceptable to Clearlake?
If anyone’s heads should roll it upstairs  recruitment department and not the coach who Ben provided a poor squad. 54pts would be a great achievement with the current bonkers squad which could be around for 7-8 years.

[ROTG]

5 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

I just wish that 60 million wasn't going on Guehi

Why would Guehi come back to a club which is at the same level as his current team?