Transfer Talk Topic

[Dwmh]

25 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

Mate, honestly you've not got a clue.

A release clause is a set figure within a contract that allows other teams to enter negotiations with said player if activated, generally being required to be paid upfront. If the figure is matched, and therefore the release clause activated, the players current club cannot reject or prevent the potential buying club from offering the player whatever deal they like. It's then up to the player to decide on whether or not they agree to any proposed contract.

There are no financial packages that need to be met, outside of the obvious release clause fee.

A potential buyer can also pay more than the release clause figure set, in the hopes of being able to more favourably structure the transfer fee payment, just as we did with Enzo. This however would require both clubs negotiating and coming to an agreement first, generally the part that activating a release clause bypasses.  

But yeah, you believe what you want. Not going to argue it with you further as there's nothing else to say or add. 

QED precisely.
So Liverpool are not trying to out bid clubs in their offer to Brighton.
But they have to outbid other clubs in their offer to macallister and his agent.
Thankyou for putting it so neatly.

26 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

All on a fraction of the wages Lukaku was signed on and therefore make for a far more manageable prospect if things don't pan out, therefore avoiding the circus we've had with Lukaku and trying to shift his ridiculous £400k pw wages or whatever it is. 

Yet again, not particularly comparable. 

I have a bridge to sell you.
So RM come to Fernandez  and offer him £400k pw wages.  What happens?  Can we keep him?  For 7 years?  We can't keep Lukaku even when we are paying him £400k  (your numbers).

Not comparable only in the sense that the situation is the inverse of your "fraction" worse.
 

[Ham]

17 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

QED precisely.
So Liverpool are not trying to out bid clubs in their offer to Brighton.
But they have to outbid other clubs in their offer to macallister and his agent.
 

A club doesn't necessarily have to offer a better deal to player or agent.

Player preference outweighs everything. There have been many examples of players saying no to an offer of higher wages to join their dream club. 

[Dwmh]

19 minutes ago, Ham said:

A club doesn't necessarily have to offer a better deal to player or agent.

Player preference outweighs everything. There have been many examples of players saying no to an offer of higher wages to join their dream club. 

????? Seriously.
So lets say Chelsea were willing to offer Macallister £400k a week.
How much would his agent demand from Liverpool?  £100k?  £200k?  £390k?

Imagine you were Macallister's agent and he said he was happy to go for £100k and your share was 10%?
lets get real

[Mark Kelly]

28 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

????? Seriously.
So lets say Chelsea were willing to offer Macallister £400k a week.
How much would his agent demand from Liverpool?  £100k?  £200k?  £390k?

Imagine you were Macallister's agent and he said he was happy to go for £100k and your share was 10%?
lets get real

Let's say, the player was a childhood Liverpool supporter (not a stretch as they all are apparently) and Liverpool meet the buy out clause and are offering 100k per week which is double what the player was earning, have just come a close second in the league and have qualified for Champions league football. 

Now consider the other club, let's call them London Blue for arguments sake, they're offering 400k per week are floundering mid table and flirting although not seriously with relegation and the player has no love for them. 

In this situation the players representatives will present both options to the player and they will choose between the two. 

Provided the buy out clause has been met there is very little the selling club can do about it. 

The player goes where the player wants to go and his representative has to suck it up and get on with it. 

I'm sure there have been occasions where the representative has leaned on the player and advised them to go to the club that makes the representative the most money and to hell with his client (Lukaku who seems to blame his representatives for every one of his own shortcomings comes to mind) but essentially the decision is the players. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Mark Kelly

[Chelsea_Matt]

54 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Let's say, the player was a childhood Liverpool supporter (not a stretch as they all are apparently) and Liverpool meet the buy out clause and are offering 100k per week which is double what the player was earning, have just come a close second in the league and have qualified for Champions league football. 

Now consider the other club, let's call them London Blue for arguments sake, they're offering 400k per week are floundering mid table and flirting although not seriously with relegation and the player has no love for them. 

In this situation the players representatives will present both options to the player and they will choose between the two. 

Provided the buy out clause has been met there is very little the selling club can do about it. 

The player goes where the player wants to go and his representative has to suck it up and get on with it. 

I'm sure there have been occasions where the representative has leaned on the player and advised them to go to the club that makes the representative the most money and to hell with his client (Lukaku who seems to blame his representatives for every one of his own shortcomings comes to mind) but essentially the decision is the players. 

Is that the same team as the London Blue Soccerball Chokers? 

[Dwmh]

35 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Let's say, the player was a childhood Liverpool supporter (not a stretch as they all are apparently)

You mean before or after he signs  🙂
As you point out fo Lukaku the decision has been pushed on him every time by the agent, not the player.
But no player is gong to accept 100k instead of 200k, let alone 400k.  Have you ever gone to a job interview and taken more than 10% less than a firm offer from someone else?
10% less, 15% at a push.  But Liverpool were clearly in competition with any other interested club, you tell me what discount you'd take for getting to play at Liverpool not Chelsea or Man U or City or anyone else wanting to bid.

(I'm talking Summer 2023, not Summer 2024 when Chelsea will have to pay substantial premiums to get talent).

[Bones]

What do people think about Anthony Gordon now? 😁

Maybe TB sports dep arent too bad at identifying good players. We just cant glue them all into a proper team as we lack spine and experience to build around.

[chara]

55 minutes ago, Bones said:

What do people think about Anthony Gordon now? 😁

Maybe TB sports dep arent too bad at identifying good players. We just cant glue them all into a proper team as we lack spine and experience to build around.

Gordon is doing ok in a good side but still don't think he is a lost star,,,,, 

[xceleryx]

4 minutes ago, chara said:

Gordon is doing ok in a good side but still don't think he is a lost star,,,,, 

As one of the few that weren't opposed to us signing him, although not necessarily for £60m, whether he's a star or not doesn't excuse the fact he would've been good enough to contribute moving forward and more than earn his keep. 

That being said, he'd have gotten the Mudryk treatment had he joined us - in and out of the side and primarily coming off the bench when the games being chased and 10 men are behind the ball. Gordon needed the patience, trust, and minutes, all of which he's gotten at Newcastle and he's grown substantially for it. 

He's got all the tools to be a very good Premier League player long term. 

[Max Fowler]

2 hours ago, Bones said:

What do people think about Anthony Gordon now? 😁

Maybe TB sports dep arent too bad at identifying good players. We just cant glue them all into a proper team as we lack spine and experience to build around.

55 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

As one of the few that weren't opposed to us signing him, although not necessarily for £60m, whether he's a star or not doesn't excuse the fact he would've been good enough to contribute moving forward and more than earn his keep. 

That being said, he'd have gotten the Mudryk treatment had he joined us - in and out of the side and primarily coming off the bench when the games being chased and 10 men are behind the ball. Gordon needed the patience, trust, and minutes, all of which he's gotten at Newcastle and he's grown substantially for it. 

He's got all the tools to be a very good Premier League player long term. 

I admitted I got Gordon completely wrong. Difference between Gordon and Mudryk should be plain for all to see though. Gordon is a normal lad not afraid to get stuck into a tackle and put himself about. Mudryk is an instagram queen covered in cheap tattoos who has never gone into a single challenge where he could get hurt in his life.

[chara]

Actually my clumsy point wasn't in disgreement with either of you...a good EPL player..always a case of fitting in ...does at Newcastle but would he at Manure for instance..same player different work environment.......leading to Mount..will he fit in there eventually or need to go elsewhere?...

[Bison]

Watching Livramento play is such a depressing experience. 

[Max Fowler]

 

 

[xceleryx]

25 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

 

Don't think he extends, but also know and have said how ADL works and if Osimhen is sold he'll make whoever wants him pay through the absolute nose. If not, he'll just watch him leave for nothing because he's an egoistical prick. 

[Mark Kelly]

11 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

I admitted I got Gordon completely wrong. Difference between Gordon and Mudryk should be plain for all to see though. Gordon is a normal lad not afraid to get stuck into a tackle and put himself about. Mudryk is an instagram queen covered in cheap tattoos who has never gone into a single challenge where he could get hurt in his life.

With all due respect, I'm going with XceleryX's assessment of Mudryk and the comparisons between his path and Gordon's. 

Poch would have been too scared to play Gordon just like he's been too scared to play Mudryk.  We simply don't know how good Mudryk could be, we do know that in the games he had started his made an excellent contribution to his defensive duties and has generally given a more rounded performance than in the numerous  "chase the games whilst the opposition cruise to victory" ten minute cameos the cowardly lion has afforded him. 

[Max Fowler]

10 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

With all due respect, I'm going with XceleryX's assessment of Mudryk and the comparisons between his path and Gordon's. 

Poch would have been too scared to play Gordon just like he's been too scared to play Mudryk.  We simply don't know how good Mudryk could be, we do know that in the games he had started his made an excellent contribution to his defensive duties and has generally given a more rounded performance than in the numerous  "chase the games whilst the opposition cruise to victory" ten minute cameos the cowardly lion has afforded him. 

With all due respect, they are completely different characters and personalities. Gordon is an old-fashion player in many regards, a fighter, a passionate and determined lad who gives everything.

Mudryk is a quiet lad - also hard working by all accounts, but more likely to be scrolling TikTok looking for tattoo inspiration and the best ways to avoid injury.

Jokes aside, can you name one tackle Mudryk has put in in the last 18 months where he could have got hurt? 

He's done some better defensive work this season but he never goes in for 50 50s and puts his body on the line. His body is his temple, the gym is his church. He doesn't want to get studded in case it ruins the tattoo of a blue butterfly on his neck.

A Mark Kelly hateable player if ever there was one.

[Bison]

19 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

With all due respect, I'm going with XceleryX's assessment of Mudryk and the comparisons between his path and Gordon's. 

Poch would have been too scared to play Gordon just like he's been too scared to play Mudryk.  We simply don't know how good Mudryk could be, we do know that in the games he had started his made an excellent contribution to his defensive duties and has generally given a more rounded performance than in the numerous  "chase the games whilst the opposition cruise to victory" ten minute cameos the cowardly lion has afforded him. 

Strongly disagree. I'm not a Poch fan but what kills this argument is Palmer coming in and playing every game. Gordon, like Palmer, is a million miles ahead of Mudryk. 

Sooner or later people are going to have to accept the reality with Mudryk. He simply isn't good enough to start for any football club trying to seriously compete.

He is raw in every sense of the word. Of all the things to criticise the coach for (and there are several things) not starting Mudryk is the absolute last thing.

Mudryk is not Poch's problem. Mudryk is a club issue that the dumb arse recruitment team needs to figure out. He needs two seasons out on loan learning how to play football. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Bison

[Max Fowler]

13 minutes ago, Bison said:

Strongly disagree. I'm not a Poch fan but what kills this argument is Palmer coming in and playing every game. Gordon, like Palmer, is a million miles ahead of Mudryk. 

Sooner or later people are going to have to accept the reality with Mudryk. He simply isn't good enough to start for any football club trying to seriously compete.

He is raw in every sense of the word. Of all the things to criticise the coach for (and there are several things) not starting Mudryk is the absolute last thing.

Mudryk is not Poch's problem. Mudryk is a club issue that the dumb arse recruitment team needs to figure out. He needs two seasons out on loan learning how to play football. 

Totally agree, although "raw" makes him sound more dangerous than he actually is.

Nico Jackson is raw, and at least he throws himself about a lot - gets clattered by defenders etc.

Mudryk is soft. Mudryk lacks footballing intelligence.

What's a word for that - lightweight?!

Could be proved wrong on him but I agree we should ship him out on loan or cash in ASAP.

All rumours are the owners think he is going to be our main winger for years to come.

I knew Mary Jane was legalized in the US but I did not know the Clearlakes loves Spacecakes.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Max Fowler

[Dwmh]

14 minutes ago, Bison said:

Strongly disagree. I'm not a Poch fan but what kills this argument is Palmer coming in and playing every game. Gordon, like Palmer, is a million miles ahead of Mudryk. 

Very different players.  One plays possession football, passes it about intelligently but doesn't loses it.
The other constantly gambles on losing the ball vs getting around the back defender.  He is doing it with less and less confidence, almost as though he is being told not to play that way.
No prizes for guessing which one Poch prefers.

In theory a team with Fernandez and Cole Palmer passing should be having a whale of a time putting Mudryk, Jackson and/or Sterling through.  That we could barely do it against a 9 man Spurs playing the offside trap tells you about how we have been coached (or not coached)

[Max Fowler]

9 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

Very different players.  One plays possession football, passes it about intelligently but doesn't loses it.
The other constantly gambles on losing the ball vs getting around the back defender.  He is doing it with less and less confidence, almost as though he is being told not to play that way.
No prizes for guessing which one Poch prefers.

Also one of them gets told off by his club for spending too much time in the gym (even going to his own gym outside of the club). Where his hobbies not only include working out excessively but also laughing at older men working out and posting it on social media.

[Max Fowler]

The mudmeister starts!!

[Dwmh]

17 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Also one of them gets told off by his club for spending too much time in the gym (even going to his own gym outside of the club). Where his hobbies not only include working out excessively but also laughing at older men working out and posting it on social media.

I would hate that if some young buck did that to me,

and if I ever read that kind of social media.
Fortunately there are even fatter and more comic old men and women in my gym.

Curiously though I read that Palmer is 6'2" tall.  Yet I don't recall him competing for a header in his time at Chelsea.
I dare say he'll be made to play CF at some point and like Havertz everyone will forget what kind of player he is.

[paulw66]

On 02/12/2023 at 14:51, Dwmh said:

Have you ever gone to a job interview and taken more than 10% less than a firm offer from someone else?
.

It really is pointless comparing PL footballers and salaries with normal people.

For most, a 10 or 15% wage increase can materially make a difference.

Difference between 30k and 40k is more meaningful to the individual. Earning 300k versus 400k a week changes very little. 

[Dwmh]

28 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

It really is pointless comparing PL footballers and salaries with normal people.

For most, a 10 or 15% wage increase can materially make a difference.

Difference between 30k and 40k is more meaningful to the individual. Earning 300k versus 400k a week changes very little. 

It is not the money it is the plain insult of offering three quarters of what you think you are worth.
Otherwise every player would be playing for their home club just as soon as they offer £3k a week (more than enough for anyone).

[paulw66]

45 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

It is not the money it is the plain insult of offering three quarters of what you think you are worth.
 

Yes and no. It might be what one club can afford. 

Moreover, they could all get more money in SA, but they wont all go. Not those who care about their professional integrity and or their legacy.