Transfer Talk Topic

[Max Fowler]

 

 

[ROTG]

10 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Personally I think the likes of Mudryk are still quite sellable.

Yeah Mudyrk is sellable at a minimum of 50m loss, same for Madueke at minimum 25m loss and might be luck to break even on Fofana D

You could also argue how much the club would get Enzo and Cacideo?

[Sleeping Dave]

On 24/11/2023 at 11:35, paulw66 said:

Of all of your contrary viewpoints, this is gold.

He has started 4 PL games, out of 12 (or 384 minutes out of an available 1080), including  starting the game against us (he was substituted at 2-0)

To suggest Arsenal are having a good season because of him is just strange. How can a player who has played so little be so responsible for their overall form?

To take it further, when Arsenal bought Jorginho in January, they had 50 points from 19 games. They got 34 points from the next 19 games. A circa 47% drop. 

 

 

True to form, isn’t he?

Jorginho is a bit part player for Arsenal, and they were a top team before they even bought him. He’s had minimal impact on their success. Of all the players one can credit, Jorginho isn’t one of them. 

[Max Fowler]

12 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Yeah Mudyrk is sellable at a minimum of 50m loss, same for Madueke at minimum 25m loss and might be luck to break even on Fofana D

You could also argue how much the club would get Enzo and Cacideo?

I think it's ridiculous to suggest we will sell Madueke for £4 million. He's done done it for us but I think we can easily command at least £20 million for him in this market. 

Mudryk might be a trickier task. Actually, I think the ownership wants to stick with him but we definitely paid well over the odds, still we could command a decent fee for him. I could imagine him doing well abroad for example, even if he has struggled in the Premier League.

Good example is Werner - we bought him for £47.5 million and sold him for £25.3 million. Not a bad return on our investment considering he did some good things on the pitch. Crucially though, Werner at 170k a week earned more than Mudryk (100k) and Madueke (50k) combined.

[Max Fowler]

7 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

True to form, isn’t he?

Jorginho is a bit part player for Arsenal, and they were a top team before they even bought him. He’s had minimal impact on their success. Of all the players one can credit, Jorginho isn’t one of them. 

It's about having an experienced guy in the dressing room though. What they offer is more than on the pitch. We did okay to recoup £12 million considering he might have left on a free anyway, but for Arsenal it's another player who sets an example. And when he plays, at least you know he's been there before. We barely have any players like that any more.

[Max Fowler]

 

 

[jasonb]

On 03/12/2023 at 00:30, Max Fowler said:

I admitted I got Gordon completely wrong. Difference between Gordon and Mudryk should be plain for all to see though. Gordon is a normal lad not afraid to get stuck into a tackle and put himself about. Mudryk is an instagram queen covered in cheap tattoos who has never gone into a single challenge where he could get hurt in his life.

I thought we should have gone for Gordon when he was at Everton, he reminded me of Mount when Mount was one of our best players. Not through style but perseverance and determination  with skill to impact the match.  

[Backbiter]

5 minutes ago, jasonb said:

I thought we should have gone for Gordon when he was at Everton, he reminded me of Mount when Mount was one of our best players. Not through style but perseverance and determination  with skill to impact the match.  

We did. The Everton board rejected our offer

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11668/12674233/anthony-gordon-chelsea-submit-40m-45m-bid-for-everton-forward#:~:text=Update-,Anthony Gordon%3A Everton reject £40m-£45m,bid from Chelsea for forward&text=Everton have rejected Chelsea's bid,now made their interest official.

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, Backbiter said:

We did. The Everton board rejected our offer

So we went and paid double for Mudryk. 
 

I’ll get my coat and tin hat. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by ROTG

[Chelsea_Matt]

11 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

 

 

@Mark Kelly more Brazilian children

[Sleeping Dave]

19 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

It's about having an experienced guy in the dressing room though. What they offer is more than on the pitch. We did okay to recoup £12 million considering he might have left on a free anyway, but for Arsenal it's another player who sets an example. And when he plays, at least you know he's been there before. We barely have any players like that any more.

Lol. First he had been a fantastic addition to them out on the pitch. When that was debunked he’s now a great presence in the dressing room? 

Like someone mentioned earlier, after they signed Jorginho last season their form fell off a cliff. I’m not blaming him, but to credit their season based on buying him seems ridiculous. 

Jorginho is still in the wrong league. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

21 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

I think it's ridiculous to suggest we will sell Madueke for £4 million. He's done done it for us but I think we can easily command at least £20 million for him in this market. 

Mudryk might be a trickier task. Actually, I think the ownership wants to stick with him but we definitely paid well over the odds, still we could command a decent fee for him. I could imagine him doing well abroad for example, even if he has struggled in the Premier League.

Good example is Werner - we bought him for £47.5 million and sold him for £25.3 million. Not a bad return on our investment considering he did some good things on the pitch. Crucially though, Werner at 170k a week earned more than Mudryk (100k) and Madueke (50k) combined.

How does buying Timo for £47.5m and selling him for £25.3m represent “not a bad return on our investment”? 

[Max Fowler]

45 minutes ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

How does buying Timo for £47.5m and selling him for £25.3m represent “not a bad return on our investment”? 

Maybe ROI is the wrong term. He represented at least £20 million of transfer value for us during his playing time. Madueke is on a fraction of the wages and won’t be sold for much less than Timo. 

[Floyd25]

On 09/12/2023 at 07:40, thevelourfog said:

How is the emboldened bit a counter argument to the first bit? We've been awful and he can't get into the team, that strongly suggests something about him.

 

Yea but has he played often enough to even be judged yet? I think it’s just a bit harsh to call him absolutely dreadful personally, but maybe you’re right. 

[Dwmh]

5 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Lol. First he had been a fantastic addition to them out on the pitch. When that was debunked he’s now a great presence in the dressing room? 

Like someone mentioned earlier, after they signed Jorginho last season their form fell off a cliff. I’m not blaming him, but to credit their season based on buying him seems ridiculous. 

Jorginho is still in the wrong league. 

Just wrong Dave.  If you can't see it now, you never will.  Great player for us, great squad improvement for Arsenal.  Can't start in an Arsenal midfield  of (yesterday) Odegaard, Rice and Havertz, where is the shame in that?

1 hour ago, Floyd25 said:

Yea but has he played often enough to even be judged yet? I think it’s just a bit harsh to call him absolutely dreadful personally, but maybe you’re right. 

I'd certainly say yes, but he seems to have played much better for England U21.
Maybe he just has an effective agent.

[Dwmh]

No one talking about this:  Clearlake and Boely spend big

LA Dodgers sign Ohtani on a $700m deal over 10 years
I don't know much about Baseball but understand that Ohtani is a genuine class act because he is both a superstar pitcher and a superstar slugger, doing both extremely well is unusual.
Japanese too, which must make him a big commercial attraction.

https://www.football.london/chelsea-fc/transfer-news/todd-boehly-700m-deal-confirmed-28262906

 

[chara]

2 hours ago, Dwmh said:

No one talking about this:  Clearlake and Boely spend big

LA Dodgers sign Ohtani on a $700m deal over 10 years
I don't know much about Baseball but understand that Ohtani is a genuine class act because he is both a superstar pitcher and a superstar slugger, doing both extremely well is unusual.
Japanese too, which must make him a big commercial attraction.

https://www.football.london/chelsea-fc/transfer-news/todd-boehly-700m-deal-confirmed-28262906

 

Nearly responded but it's one thing to pay big bucks for a proven prime Messi level player (in any sport)...not rocket science ...so really a non headline in the way it was presented...yep..spent big ...but not unwisely or on "potential" .

Good sports business..perhaps they have a good advisory team?

[Dwmh]

5 minutes ago, chara said:

Nearly responded but it's one thing to pay big bucks for a proven prime Messi level player (in any sport)...not rocket science ...so really a non headline in the way it was presented...yep..spent big ...but not unwisely or on "potential" .

Good sports business..perhaps they have a good advisory team?

It is certainly not the New Chelsea Way.  He is 29 so might have a long career left as a hitter, but I don't know as a pitcher.
I agree they probably have only paid the going rate gor genius.  
But LA Dodgers and Chelsea are similar sized businesses - they had $581m in 2022, we had £480m or $600m in 2022.  That is one hell of a lot of commitment to one player.  Don't Baseball teams have salary caps?

(I gather the payments are structured towards later years, so that problem is just a can kicked down the road, much like our contracts and transfer fees).
It hints at Egos and Ponzi schemes but the separate interests of Clearlake and T Boehly should be reassuring.

[Backbiter]

3 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

It is certainly not the New Chelsea Way.  He is 29 so might have a long career left as a hitter, but I don't know as a pitcher.
I agree they probably have only paid the going rate gor genius.  
But LA Dodgers and Chelsea are similar sized businesses - they had $581m in 2022, we had £480m or $600m in 2022.  That is one hell of a lot of commitment to one player.  Don't Baseball teams have salary caps?

(I gather the payments are structured towards later years, so that problem is just a can kicked down the road, much like our contracts and transfer fees).
It hints at Egos and Ponzi schemes but the separate interests of Clearlake and T Boehly should be reassuring.

No.

[chara]

8 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

No.

But there is a strange "luxury" tax obligation if the payroll goes over a certain figure.

[Sleeping Dave]

20 hours ago, Dwmh said:

Just wrong Dave.  If you can't see it now, you never will.  Great player for us, great squad improvement for Arsenal.  Can't start in an Arsenal midfield  of (yesterday) Odegaard, Rice and Havertz, where is the shame in that?

I'd certainly say yes, but he seems to have played much better for England U21.
Maybe he just has an effective agent.

You are right. I can't see it and I suspect a lot of people are in the same camp. 

He's a bit part player for Arsenal. He should have been a bit part player for us as well but we wasted years of stubbornly playing him and Kovacic in CM instead fo being bold and going for a first choice CM-pairing that would have given us a chance of winning the league. 

You simply can't play in this league being so slow and weak. When a ref of 45 years old sprints past you, you really should think about what you are doing here. We are so lucky Arsenal was stupid enough to take him and Havertz off our hands.  

 

[Thiago97]

On 10/12/2023 at 06:43, Sleeping Dave said:

Lol. First he had been a fantastic addition to them out on the pitch. When that was debunked he’s now a great presence in the dressing room? 

Like someone mentioned earlier, after they signed Jorginho last season their form fell off a cliff. I’m not blaming him, but to credit their season based on buying him seems ridiculous. 

Jorginho is still in the wrong league. 

Yep. He was signed to be an experienced and calm presence, at a low transfer cost, and to help get them over the line in the league. It failed.

That is not on Jorginho. However, that was the whole point of his signing. The new season comes along and he ends up becoming ever more a bit part player, than he was in his 5 months there from the previous season.

I thought he might debunk my longstanding theory that you cannot win the PL with Jorginho in your team. In turns out, you cannot win the PL with a lead,  and with 5 months to play and Jorginho involved. Maybe he will debunk my theory this season.

[Morgs]

I wrote a post back in September about how after the current run of games moving into the middle of December we could be staring down the barrel of a nasty relegation fight, manager under huge pressure, unable to buy a win from anywhere and still struggling to score goals or keep them out. I said the manager would limp on until the new year by which time we wouldn't be in any better a position and get fired. I said our transfer window activity in Jan would be crucual to us staying in the league and that we were bloody lucky Sheff United, Bournemouth and Luton are rubbish because we would be bang in trouble otherwise. I think I even predicted the number of points we would get from this run of games. 

I remember I got slated for being hyperbolic and hysterical, but would just like to find that post to see how many predictions I got right? 

[Thiago97]

6 minutes ago, Morgs said:

I wrote a post back in September about how after the current run of games moving into the middle of December we could be staring down the barrel of a nasty relegation fight, manager under huge pressure, unable to buy a win from anywhere and still struggling to score goals or keep them out. I said the manager would limp on until the new year by which time we wouldn't be in any better a position and get fired. I said our transfer window activity in Jan would be crucual to us staying in the league and that we were bloody lucky Sheff United, Bournemouth and Luton are rubbish because we would be bang in trouble otherwise. I think I even predicted the number of points we would get from this run of games. 

I remember I got slated for being hyperbolic and hysterical, but would just like to find that post to see how many predictions I got right? 

I remember the post and I was one of the ones who was critical of it. I would still disagree with it too.

We are scoring more goals, though clearly not enough. I firmly do not believe we are in any relegation battle. We have two brand new players still to be introduced very shortly (Nkunku & Lavia). I believe we do have to add at least one January signing, possibly two. They need to be experienced and impactful to help improve the situation, not talented kids. 

If we can keep our forwards options fit, and we sign players who are ready to contribute now,I believe that by mid - late January the situation will look better. It still won't be good enough for a club of our stature and where we want to be. I expect we will still be sat somewhere between 8th-10th, but I think we will be seeing some further progress to build upon.

[Max Fowler]

🤦‍♂️