Transfer Talk Topic

[Mark Kelly]

1 minute ago, Max Fowler said:

They didn't. Poch pushed hard for Gallagher to stay and he wanted to as well. So the board reluctantly adjusted.

It's not a good omen for Pochettino though is it? 

[Max Fowler]

 

 

[blueboy1905]

29 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

 

Not sure that the money obtained from these signings would fund two left backs, two right backs, another central defender, a winger and two strikers.

[Box of Tricks]

29 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

It begins with Enzo Fernandes

 

 

As much as I want to trash talk this kind of journalism, there must be all sorts going through their heads right now.

Saying that though, I don't think anyone who ups and leaves at this stage will be missed too much.

4 hours ago, chara said:

Now you see why I don't follow my local MLS side (apart from the Arse connection!)

Chosen wisely.

[Max Fowler]

Super important point by my guy Younes today. The way our long contracts work means that 

We buy Enzo for 100 million on an 8 year deal (12.5 million a year)
We sell him 4 years later for 50 million - we break even on the player in terms of FFP.

We can't amortise contracts over that long a period any more but it explains the ownership model of buying young.

They retain value and can be sold for money as they are still young players.

People say Mudryk won't be worth anything any more, but it breaks down as follows:

We bought him for 90 million (lets say - not even sure how bonuses factor in) on an 8 year contract.
That's 11.25 million a year. Sell him after 3 years we have only paid 33.75 million for him on FFP.
We sell him for 35 million - we have made a slight profit.

This is going to continue for time. FUCK THESE OWNERS!

[Max Fowler]

Good overview of today's endless briefings to the press from the club.

 

[Max Fowler]

Hint - used to play for Brighton reserves

 

 

[Rob B]

30 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

People say Mudryk won't be worth anything any more, but it breaks down as follows:

We bought him for 90 million (lets say - not even sure how bonuses factor in) on an 8 year contract.
That's 11.25 million a year. Sell him after 3 years we have only paid 33.75 million for him on FFP.
We sell him for 35 million - we have made a slight profit.

This is going to continue for time. FUCK THESE OWNERS!

Your Enzo example was correct, but the Mudryk one isn’t. 

If we bought MM for £90m on an 8 year contract (£11.25 per annum) and sold him for £35m after 3 years we wouldn’t make a profit because there would still be a balance on the books of £55m.   We’d make a £20m or so loss.    You haven’t factored in what was owed that still needs to be settled (from an accounts perspective even if we’ve physically already paid for the player)

[Dwmh]

36 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Super important point by my guy Younes today. The way our long contracts work means that 

We buy Enzo for 100 million on an 8 year deal (12.5 million a year)
We sell him 4 years later for 50 million - we break even on the player in terms of FFP.

I'm not sure you and your mate Younes should be talking about serious stuff like money.

[Max Fowler]

19 minutes ago, Rob B said:

Your Enzo example was correct, but the Mudryk one isn’t. 

If we bought MM for £90m on an 8 year contract (£11.25 per annum) and sold him for £35m after 3 years we wouldn’t make a profit because there would still be a balance on the books of £55m.   We’d make a £20m or so loss.    You haven’t factored in what was owed that still needs to be settled (from an accounts perspective even if we’ve physically already paid for the player.

Thanks for fixing my maths. Still shows how youngsters can be sold more sustainably than old codgers and against FFP.

21 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

I'm not sure you and your mate Younes should be talking about serious stuff like money.

Harsh!

[xceleryx]

4 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Super important point by my guy Younes today. The way our long contracts work means that 

We buy Enzo for 100 million on an 8 year deal (12.5 million a year)
We sell him 4 years later for 50 million - we break even on the player in terms of FFP.

We can't amortise contracts over that long a period any more but it explains the ownership model of buying young.

They retain value and can be sold for money as they are still young players.

People say Mudryk won't be worth anything any more, but it breaks down as follows:

We bought him for 90 million (lets say - not even sure how bonuses factor in) on an 8 year contract.
That's 11.25 million a year. Sell him after 3 years we have only paid 33.75 million for him on FFP.
We sell him for 35 million - we have made a slight profit.

This is going to continue for time. FUCK THESE OWNERS!

FWIW we didn't buy Mudryk for £90m. We paid closer to around £66m give or take and there's add-on's that could bump that fee towards that £90m mark. His on book costs only take into account the guaranteed money, not potential money owed through add-on's. 

The media just use the potential figure because it's larger and therefore more dramatic. 

[SideshowLuiz]

6 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

 

 

Find it hard to believe Disasi and Gusto are on the chopping block - they were signed less than half a year ago and have been (relatively) decent. 

[Floyd25]

56 minutes ago, SideshowLuiz said:

Find it hard to believe Disasi and Gusto are on the chopping block - they were signed less than half a year ago and have been (relatively) decent. 

They’re not, it’s nonsense. 

[Mark Kelly]

I don't believe the utter nonsense regarding selling players although out of all of the rumours the most likely one is Enzo Fernandez

He signed with the belief he was going to be an attacking midfielder and instead has spent his time mopping up in midfield at the other end of the pitch to where he wants to be and has gone on record saying he wanted to play further forward  this season .

He's still struggling on but something tells me he's not a happy bunny .

Gusto , Disasi and Cucurella has to be pure fantasy 

[xceleryx]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

I don't believe the utter nonsense regarding selling players although out of all of the rumours the most likely one is Enzo Fernandez

He signed with the belief he was going to be an attacking midfielder and instead has spent his time mopping up in midfield at the other end of the pitch to where he wants to be and has gone on record saying he wanted to play further forward  this season .

He's still struggling on but something tells me he's not a happy bunny .

Gusto , Disasi and Cucurella has to be pure fantasy 

Enzo played a lot further forward vs Everton and was able to get closer to goal than he's generally gotten. 

While it's not been a permanent fixture so far this season, he's certainly had matches where greater freedom has been permitted. I think just because of the nature of our midfield he's also spent time dropping back because Gallagher tends to get the green light to press higher up the pitch when we're without the ball. It's also easier for Enzo to drop back deeper to collect possession and progress the ball forward. 

He could use a rest though.

[Morgs]

As we approach the half way point of the season I thought it may be fun to do a round up of who we would keep and who we would sell, who needs a loan and who needs to buck their ideas up.

First up, Defenders and Goalkeepers. 

Petrovic - needs a loan. Cant get in the side ahead of Sanchez so can't be all that. LOAN.

Sanchez - decent back up but nowhere near the level required. Far too many mistakes in him. I'd keep him as a backup but if he's not prepared to accept that, (and he didnt at Brighton) then sell. SELL. 

Gusto - done well, looks a fitter and more aggressive, slightly slimmer version of James but with a better cross on him. A quiet success story and you'd back him to make the right back slot his own this season with James being made of plaster of Paris. I like him. Mature beyond his years, great in the tackle, works so hard getting up and down and if he can contribute a few goals into the package he will be not far off world class. A rare success story for our scouting department. It was interesting to hear the pelters the Lyon fans were giving him when he moved about being a defensive liability, always caught out of position and tactically very naïve/feckless, as I don't think we've seen any of that.  A class act. KEEP.

James - world class on his day but there is a growing feeling we have perhaps already seen the best of him in a Chelsea shirt and that making him Captain was a mistake because he is not capable of staying fit. I always thought Michael Essien's brick outhouse physique was his undoing in terms of injuries as his knees, ankles and hamstrings simply couldnt take the inertia of such a big lump of muscle at the pace of the Premier League, and so I think James is much the same. Too big, too muscular and needs to slim down to give his knees and hamstrings a chance. If we got a good offer for him of over 40m I'd let him go personally. His twiglet hamstrings mean that is unlikely though so he will stay by default. KEEP. 

Disasi - a world away from Koulibaly in terms of his ability and comfort on the ball, quicker than a guy his size ought to be and a genuine threat at set pieces. Still young (only 25) and perhaps three years off his peak, he has unquestionably added power and steel to our back line that was sorely lacking last season. Another one of the scouting team's quiet success stories, we haven't seen the best of him yet. Has the potential to be an absolute monster, even if he lacks the finesse and cultured style of Fofana and Badiashile. KEEP. 

Fofana - A Marmite player if ever there was one, I am very much a fan of his. I think his languid, slightly laid back style makes people think he is lazy and I think it is a strength of his; he always looks like he has lots of time on the ball. I love that he has a nasty streak and isnt afraid to get involved and get in people's faces. He winds opposition players up, loves a tackle and is so comfortable in possession. Seen him run to the Chelsea fans fist pumping and giving it the big 'un - love that. Has genuine passion. Whether he can ever get back to full fitness is an open debate. I and a few others on here wrote him off after his latest major setback and were therefore shocked to see him back in training by the start of December. Getting him back fit and staying fit could be a major plus for us this season. Disasi has done okay in his absence but we are too reliant on Silva without Fofana and the latter needs to be used much more sparingly at this stage in the twilight of his career than he has been. KEEP. 

Silva - still our best player. Clearly in decline as any 39 year old would be, but a massive force for us and the scapegoating of him after all he has done for us is stomach-churning, as I've mentioned on here previously. I'd ask him what he wants - if he wants another season or so in Brazil, then let him go on a free and give him a testimonial. If he wants to stick around until the Summer, fine. If he wants to do his coaching badges at Chelsea and get into management, he would be a super addition to the staff.  If he does want to go back for one final Brazilian dance, then he goes with our love, gratitude and heartfelt best wishes. 

Colwill - clearly a class act and I love the passion and aggression he shows. He will be some player in a couple of years even if he is still raw and prone to the odd mistake. He isnt a left back, that is for sure. KEEP. 

Chalobah - I am fond of him and have always felt his ceiling is a lot higher then people give him credit for. Does the simple things well and is deceptively quick for such a big bloke, does pop up with the odd goal now and again too, or he used to anyway.  I don't think he has done a lot wrong, but sadly seems to have fallen out of the club's plans and if it is a choice between keeping him or Disasi, it is perhaps understandable that the club want to cash in as he is a pure profit youth team product. SELL.

Badiashile - awful mistake midweek for Everton's goal but this is uncharacteristic for him. He's a funny one - he doesn't look like a top footballer. But he is. I'd go as far as saying he is probably the joint-best signing we have made in the last five years, along with Palmer.  Deceptively quick, commanding in the air, silky-as-you-like on the ball and always looks like he has all the time in the world. If he has a weakness it is his positioning but he is only 22 and this will come. I rate him, big time. Scary to think how good he could be in five years time he will still only be 27, and I think he is on the cusp of world class even now. KEEP. 

Cucurella - I maintain there is a player in there. I'm in a huge minority but I do rate him. Pings the ball around with pace and verve, decent physicality despite his diminutive size and is quick enough to get back when caught out of position. I think he is made to look more vulnerable than he might ordinarily be, because of the way teams bypass Enzo and Caicedo in the middle with those long diagonal balls into the corners. He cant get forward enough because as soon as we lose possession he is under pressure from his runner chasing down those midfield bypass long balls. I think this is why he is always looking like he is out of position. His problem is he's not big or strong enough defensively to play at left back, but doesn't offer enough going forward to play left wing back because he cannot commit to the overlap. This is made worse by Mudryk's disastrously poor first touch and tendency to lose possession, forcing Cucu to hover backwards in no-man's-land waiting to see if he can bomb on or needs to get across to make the tackle to follow up Mudryk losing the ball.  Has been really unlucky with goals as well - normally he is a 6-9 goals a season kind of player and has been on a rotten run in front of goal for us, which is a shame as I think more would rate him if he did pop up with a goal or three. I'd keep him, I think he is clearly a better player than most think and has seen off Maatsen pretty effectively. KEEP. 

Chilwell - one of our few world class players but his workrate and physicality (for such a small guy) means he is always doing all the hard yards up and down, getting kicked and pummelled into oblivion every game. Played too many games in recent seasons, had no rest and the injury record lately shows this. Regardless, he is a major goal threat in this goal-shy team and when fit is genuinely a top player and one that makes us better. I cannot for the life of me figure out why he isn't one of the most popular members of the team amongst the fans - there are loads who don't rate him and think he should be sold. I cannot get my head around that, sorry. KEEP. 

Maatsen - a real pity it hasn't worked out but it is what it is. We should get some decent money for him. SELL. 

 

Midfield to follow tomorrow and Attack on Thursday if I get time. 

 

Do let me know if you agree with my assessments. 

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, xceleryx said:

Enzo played a lot further forward vs Everton and was able to get closer to goal than he's generally gotten. 

While it's not been a permanent fixture so far this season, he's certainly had matches where greater freedom has been permitted. I think just because of the nature of our midfield he's also spent time dropping back because Gallagher tends to get the green light to press higher up the pitch when we're without the ball. It's also easier for Enzo to drop back deeper to collect possession and progress the ball forward. 

He could use a rest though.

Yes, agreed , Gallagher missing was why he got more forward I agree , however , personally , I think Enzo is better as a deep lying midfielder and I suspect Poch does too which sadly Enzo doesn't agree with , maybe that's where these rumours of Gallagher being mooted for sale keep coming from?

[Max Fowler]

5 minutes ago, Morgs said:

As we approach the half way point of the season I thought it may be fun to do a round up of who we would keep and who we would sell, who needs a loan and who needs to buck their ideas up.

First up, Defenders and Goalkeepers. 

Petrovic - needs a loan. Cant get in the side ahead of Sanchez so can't be all that. LOAN.

Sanchez - decent back up but nowhere near the level required. Far too many mistakes in him. I'd keep him as a backup but if he's not prepared to accept that, (and he didnt at Brighton) then sell. SELL. 

Gusto - done well, looks a fitter and more aggressive, slightly slimmer version of James but with a better cross on him. A quiet success story and you'd back him to make the right back slot his own this season with James being made of plaster of Paris. I like him. Mature beyond his years, great in the tackle, works so hard getting up and down and if he can contribute a few goals into the package he will be not far off world class. A rare success story for our scouting department. It was interesting to hear the pelters the Lyon fans were giving him when he moved about being a defensive liability, always caught out of position and tactically very naïve/feckless, as I don't think we've seen any of that.  A class act. KEEP.

James - world class on his day but there is a growing feeling we have perhaps already seen the best of him in a Chelsea shirt and that making him Captain was a mistake because he is not capable of staying fit. I always thought Michael Essien's brick outhouse physique was his undoing in terms of injuries as his knees, ankles and hamstrings simply couldnt take the inertia of such a big lump of muscle at the pace of the Premier League, and so I think James is much the same. Too big, too muscular and needs to slim down to give his knees and hamstrings a chance. If we got a good offer for him of over 40m I'd let him go personally. His twiglet hamstrings mean that is unlikely though so he will stay by default. KEEP. 

Disasi - a world away from Koulibaly in terms of his ability and comfort on the ball, quicker than a guy his size ought to be and a genuine threat at set pieces. Still young (only 25) and perhaps three years off his peak, he has unquestionably added power and steel to our back line that was sorely lacking last season. Another one of the scouting team's quiet success stories, we haven't seen the best of him yet. Has the potential to be an absolute monster, even if he lacks the finesse and cultured style of Fofana and Badiashile. KEEP. 

Fofana - A Marmite player if ever there was one, I am very much a fan of his. I think his languid, slightly laid back style makes people think he is lazy and I think it is a strength of his; he always looks like he has lots of time on the ball. I love that he has a nasty streak and isnt afraid to get involved and get in people's faces. He winds opposition players up, loves a tackle and is so comfortable in possession. Seen him run to the Chelsea fans fist pumping and giving it the big 'un - love that. Has genuine passion. Whether he can ever get back to full fitness is an open debate. I and a few others on here wrote him off after his latest major setback and were therefore shocked to see him back in training by the start of December. Getting him back fit and staying fit could be a major plus for us this season. Disasi has done okay in his absence but we are too reliant on Silva without Fofana and the latter needs to be used much more sparingly at this stage in the twilight of his career than he has been. KEEP. 

Silva - still our best player. Clearly in decline as any 39 year old would be, but a massive force for us and the scapegoating of him after all he has done for us is stomach-churning, as I've mentioned on here previously. I'd ask him what he wants - if he wants another season or so in Brazil, then let him go on a free and give him a testimonial. If he wants to stick around until the Summer, fine. If he wants to do his coaching badges at Chelsea and get into management, he would be a super addition to the staff.  If he does want to go back for one final Brazilian dance, then he goes with our love, gratitude and heartfelt best wishes. 

Colwill - clearly a class act and I love the passion and aggression he shows. He will be some player in a couple of years even if he is still raw and prone to the odd mistake. He isnt a left back, that is for sure. KEEP. 

Chalobah - I am fond of him and have always felt his ceiling is a lot higher then people give him credit for. Does the simple things well and is deceptively quick for such a big bloke, does pop up with the odd goal now and again too, or he used to anyway.  I don't think he has done a lot wrong, but sadly seems to have fallen out of the club's plans and if it is a choice between keeping him or Disasi, it is perhaps understandable that the club want to cash in as he is a pure profit youth team product. SELL.

Badiashile - awful mistake midweek for Everton's goal but this is uncharacteristic for him. He's a funny one - he doesn't look like a top footballer. But he is. I'd go as far as saying he is probably the joint-best signing we have made in the last five years, along with Palmer.  Deceptively quick, commanding in the air, silky-as-you-like on the ball and always looks like he has all the time in the world. If he has a weakness it is his positioning but he is only 22 and this will come. I rate him, big time. Scary to think how good he could be in five years time he will still only be 27, and I think he is on the cusp of world class even now. KEEP. 

Cucurella - I maintain there is a player in there. I'm in a huge minority but I do rate him. Pings the ball around with pace and verve, decent physicality despite his diminutive size and is quick enough to get back when caught out of position. I think he is made to look more vulnerable than he might ordinarily be, because of the way teams bypass Enzo and Caicedo in the middle with those long diagonal balls into the corners. He cant get forward enough because as soon as we lose possession he is under pressure from his runner chasing down those midfield bypass long balls. I think this is why he is always looking like he is out of position. His problem is he's not big or strong enough defensively to play at left back, but doesn't offer enough going forward to play left wing back because he cannot commit to the overlap. This is made worse by Mudryk's disastrously poor first touch and tendency to lose possession, forcing Cucu to hover backwards in no-man's-land waiting to see if he can bomb on or needs to get across to make the tackle to follow up Mudryk losing the ball.  Has been really unlucky with goals as well - normally he is a 6-9 goals a season kind of player and has been on a rotten run in front of goal for us, which is a shame as I think more would rate him if he did pop up with a goal or three. I'd keep him, I think he is clearly a better player than most think and has seen off Maatsen pretty effectively. KEEP. 

Chilwell - one of our few world class players but his workrate and physicality (for such a small guy) means he is always doing all the hard yards up and down, getting kicked and pummelled into oblivion every game. Played too many games in recent seasons, had no rest and the injury record lately shows this. Regardless, he is a major goal threat in this goal-shy team and when fit is genuinely a top player and one that makes us better. I cannot for the life of me figure out why he isn't one of the most popular members of the team amongst the fans - there are loads who don't rate him and think he should be sold. I cannot get my head around that, sorry. KEEP. 

Maatsen - a real pity it hasn't worked out but it is what it is. We should get some decent money for him. SELL. 

 

Midfield to follow tomorrow and Attack on Thursday if I get time. 

 

Do let me know if you agree with my assessments. 

Great post. You overrate Gusto who has been mixed this season, though I thought he started really well. And fail to point out if it's worth keeping Fofana because of how injury prone he is or trying to cash in while we can. Chilwell isn't world class I am sorry, has not been for a while. We need to look at moving on both Chilwell and James for the right price.

[Max Fowler]

 

 

[Mark Kelly]

10 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

 

The circus rolls into town again...

[xceleryx]

35 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Yes, agreed , Gallagher missing was why he got more forward I agree , however , personally , I think Enzo is better as a deep lying midfielder and I suspect Poch does too which sadly Enzo doesn't agree with , maybe that's where these rumours of Gallagher being mooted for sale keep coming from?

There's a middle ground for me, which is more like how he played at Benfica. Yes, he had more freedom to get forward but it wasn't in the same vein as an outright #8 would. But he also spent a lot of time playing in the deeper half space on the left hand side of midfield, yet not quite a true deep lying midfielder/playmaker like a Pirlo. 

I do believe the construction of our midfield at present is somewhat unbalanced. Caicedo isn't really a holding DM type, but more a roaming ball-winner similar to what Kante provided. Athletic strengths but maybe a little positionally lax at times which requires others plugging the gaps he leaves. Enzo on the other hand lacks the athleticism but is very good on the ball in terms of controlling tempo, ball progression and getting the ball into the final third. Can offer a bit defensively but similar to Jorginho if isolated he's not going to win a foot race. 

Gallagher sort of plugs that gap in dynamism because he's a real work-horse with running capabilities, which helps make up for when Enzo is higher up the pitch and transitional play, but doesn't really have the polish on either side of the ball. He's needed, but at the same time a a more specialised option could level things out a bit. Eg; sign a proper holding type that sits, Caicedo takes up Gallaghers role, which then lets Enzo sort of float between. We'd have proper protection on the defensive side with a holder, yet would still retain someone that can press a bit higher up the pitch to create pressure in Caicedo. 

Not that I'd want to sell Gallagher as even if he isn't a starter he's good enough for a role here in some capacity.

 

[Max Fowler]

 

 

[Thiago97]

13 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Hint - used to play for Brighton reserves

 

 

I can provide a bit of a decent scouting report on this lad. I had  quite a decent bet on Coventry to be promoted last season, and that bet was based upon their style of play, but also because they had two players who are better than Championship level. One of them is Gyokeres and the other is Hamer (who moved to Sheff Utf for about £10million)

So I seen quite a bit of Coventry play over the last 12-18 months. 

Gyokeres is a complete handful at that level. I am not surprised he has started well in Portugal. He is very strong and for a big lad, he has a turn of pace too. What he is very good at is taking the ball with his back to goal and rolling the defender. Luis Suarez was one of the best around at doing this. Gyokeres also does this very well, he is much bigger unit than Suarez. Another player who used to do this well was Christian Vieri a few years back, and I think Gyokeres has some similarities in his play to Vieri. He is a decent finisher from inside and outside the box. At the same time, he is still learning the game and is also quite raw in parts of his game. He can sometimes try to do too much when he has the ball, rather than maybe lay it off to a teammate who is in a better position.

The big surprise for me is that no PL took a gamble on him. I thought he was an ideal option for a team like West Ham, Everton at the price he left Coventry for. I think he was probably too raw for a top6 club to take that gamble as a regular starter, and I would probably say he still is too raw for Chelsea, as you would be talking £40m at least to get him out of Lisbon so soon.

Overall, I don't see him as being the right man we need now. We need someone more proven who can come in and make an impact. However, I think he is certainly someone we should be keeping tabs on over the next 12-18 months and monitor how he progresses at Sporting.

[CarefreeMuratcan]

13 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Hint - used to play for Brighton reserves

 

 

I thought I recognised the name. This is the kid that was making a name for himself with Coventry last season. I think he would be a great buy.

[CarefreeMuratcan]

1 hour ago, Max Fowler said:

 

 

Not heard of Nusa, but the other 4 would all be solid buys.