Transfer Talk Topic

[ROTG]

8 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

He is now but that's only because he's improved enormously over the last year.

Probably the most improved player in the league over the last year. Add a few more goals and we could be looking at the best all-round midfielder in the league by this time neat year. Honestly wouldn't  sell him for £100m now!

Ange or pep are getting a bargain next month

[paulw66]

2 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

Honestly wouldn't  sell him for £100m now!

Really?

 

[Dwmh]

3 hours ago, Bones said:

It also always come down to the actual performance on the pitch right - if Mount isn't performing at MU he will not get another raise anyway.

Mount is 24 - he is now on top wages whether he performs or not until he reaches 30.  He has the perfect contract to give him at least £50m for his career.  Maybe more.

[Dwmh]

2 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

He is now but that's only because he's improved enormously over the last year.

Probably the most improved player in the league over the last year. Add a few more goals and we could be looking at the best all-round midfielder in the league by this time neat year. Honestly wouldn't  sell him for £100m now!

Sorry that is bollocks, he has been the best player in a mid-table team for almost every season he has played, except when he was by far the best player in a relegation team.

[Rob B]

11 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Really?

 

I would  sell Gallagher for £100m largely because of how well stocked we are in midfield, plus the fact that £100m for an academy player probably funds our transfer activity for the next 2-3 seasons (from a books perspective)

That said though, I must admit I was thinking myself a couple of days ago, if Gallagher added a few goals here and there to his game (we know he's done it previously for other teams) he would become about as complete a midfielder as they come. 

Let's be honest, he's already playing better than Enzo and Caicedo.  I certainly wouldn't be selling him for £40m or even £50m. 

[ROTG]

16 minutes ago, Rob B said:

I would  sell Gallagher for £100m largely because of how well stocked we are in midfield, plus the fact that £100m for an academy player probably funds our transfer activity for the next 2-3 seasons (from a books perspective)

That said though, I must admit I was thinking myself a couple of days ago, if Gallagher added a few goals here and there to his game (we know he's done it previously for other teams) he would become about as complete a midfielder as they come. 

Let's be honest, he's already playing better than Enzo and Caicedo.  I certainly wouldn't be selling him for £40m or even £50m. 

 Eh!

No club will pay £100m for Gallagher except Chelsea. £40 - £50 tops for him, which demonstrates how much the club paid over the odds for the South American duo.

 

[paulw66]

21 minutes ago, Rob B said:

 

Let's be honest, he's already playing better than Enzo and Caicedo.  I certainly wouldn't be selling him for £40m or even £50m. 

Agreed, as that is an entirely different conversation. 

[boratsbrother]

51 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Really?

 

Yes!!!

What's a £100 m these days when we've spent £350 m on the likes of Fofana, Enzo, Caisedo and Cucu😭😭😭😭 Gallagher is more important to this team than those four put together and I'm being serious about that too!🙂

To get back to where we want to be we need players who can get us there, not money in the bank. When we find one we keep them and try to add to them. Stating the obvious, but thats the only way we'll have a high quality team again.

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by boratsbrother

[thevelourfog]

4 hours ago, Dwmh said:

Mount, RLC, CHO and Hall last summer.
Gilmour went the year before.  So 5, not counting Christensen (nor really Academy) and  Clarke-Salter who was 25 but now playing regularly in the Championship with QPR.

Completely forgot Loftus-Cheek existed! Fair enough, still not a list that indicates some sort of demented determination to sell academy products. I'm not really having Gilmour as one of them. Christensen is debatable, but then letting him leave on a free (despite there being no other option) is one of the things Abramovich's badly run operation allowed. 

[Backbiter]

21 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Completely forgot Loftus-Cheek existed! Fair enough, still not a list that indicates some sort of demented determination to sell academy products. I'm not really having Gilmour as one of them. Christensen is debatable, but then letting him leave on a free (despite there being no other option) is one of the things Abramovich's badly run operation allowed. 

Pretty sure AC himself pulled the plug on the deal he was offered. The Ukraine war/ sanctions on RA might have played a part but AC saw the chance to join Barca on a free and took it. costing us millions in a transfer fee. The club certainly tried to keep him, as they did with Rudiger.

[thevelourfog]

1 minute ago, Backbiter said:

Pretty sure AC himself pulled the plug on the deal he was offered. The Ukraine war/ sanctions on RA might have played a part but AC saw the chance to join Barca on a free and took it. costing us millions in a transfer fee. The club certainly tried to keep him, as they did with Rudiger.

I was being sarcastic about the current owners and some of the stupid things they have said in public.

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

Completely forgot Loftus-Cheek existed! Fair enough, still not a list that indicates some sort of demented determination to sell academy products. I'm not really having Gilmour as one of them. Christensen is debatable, but then letting him leave on a free (despite there being no other option) is one of the things Abramovich's badly run operation allowed. 

No surprise there - he kept on being picked which meant the "bring back RLC brigade" went silent.
I agree, the trend has been strongly to remove the bought players, not the Academy ones.
Which fits with the idea that the new scouting is based on a very different algorithm to the RA owned scouting system.  Players the old team selected in have attributes that are low rated by the current lot, while the Academy players are likely to have a more random set of attributes and less likely to look overpriced on the new system.

49 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

Pretty sure AC himself pulled the plug on the deal he was offered. The Ukraine war/ sanctions on RA might have played a part but AC saw the chance to join Barca on a free and took it. costing us millions in a transfer fee. The club certainly tried to keep him, as they did with Rudiger.

I'm not sure that letting AC go cost us millions.  The alternative would have been to give him a big contract rise in 2020 to stay  which might end up costing us more you think we missed out on.  

Rudiger is different but if watching Chelsea last season was frustrating for us, imagine what it would have been like for Rudiger to be playing for us then or now.   Frankly I'm glad I don't have to watch that.  Or Werner, or Jorginho or Kepa or Havertz or Pulisic.  There is a lot of players that I am pleased to say have escaped the embarrassment and finger pointing of this season.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Dwmh

[boratsbrother]

31 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

 

Rudiger is different but if watching Chelsea last season was frustrating for us, imagine what it would have been like for Rudiger to be playing for us then or now.   Frankly I'm glad I don't have to watch that.  Or Werner, or Jorginho or Kepa or Havertz or Pulisic.  There is a lot of players that I am pleased to say have escaped the embarrassment and finger pointing of this season.

Rudi aside, we were going nowhere in the league with those players and the others we sold! We were only clinging onto top four because  of other top teams being so poor.

The fact that we wasted a huge amount of money on Enzo, Caisedo, Forfana, Cucu, Disasi, doesn't change the fact that we were right to start the big   rebuild that was desperately needed.

Edited December 29, 2023 by boratsbrother

[Backbiter]

1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

I was being sarcastic about the current owners and some of the stupid things they have said in public.

I see. I misread your post.

[Dwmh]

32 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Rudi aside, we were going nowhere in the league with those players and the others we sold! We were only clinging onto top four because  of other top teams being so poor.

74 points in 2021/22 and the only player really ageing is still here.  74 points is a good total 3rd, we took a lot of points off teams at all levels of the prem - something we can no longer do.

34 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

The fact that we wasted a huge amount of money on Enzo, Caisedo, Forfana, Cucu, Disasi, doesn't change the fact that we were right to start the big   rebuild that was desperately needed.

1.  nonsense really.  We had a set of players that all got grabbed by teams as big or bigger with CL entry.

2.  You can't drop 30 points as step on of a rebuild.  It takes 3 years to get that 30 points back - with a highly motivated proven set of players.  With our kids it won't happen.
We have gone from a 74 point team wanting to stay a 70+ team to a 44 point team trying to be a 54 point team.
There is no way in the world anyone can say that the rebuild has been positive.  It was suicide.

The best that can be said is that more sensible plans collapsed when all the core players fit enough to attract a bid walked (ran) out.
Which simply points the Fxxx up to an earlier point than the Summer window.

[thevelourfog]

9 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

The best that can be said is that more sensible plans collapsed when all the core players fit enough to attract a bid walked (ran) out.
Which simply points the Fxxx up to an earlier point than the Summer window.

I don't think you were back here for last summer, but it was essentially a core of maybe 7 or 8 posters consistently slating Mount without considering why it was he wanted out. The prejudice some posters had about our 2020ish team is so baseless strong that it has persisted when all current evidence tells you they were much better than so many would give them credit for.

[Dwmh]

53 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

I don't think you were back here for last summer, but it was essentially a core of maybe 7 or 8 posters consistently slating Mount without considering why it was he wanted out.

is so baseless strong that it has persisted when all current evidence tells you they were much better than so many would give them credit for.

I'm really greatful I wasn't here.
Of course much of the reason we got 44 points is because we got 5 points from the last 9 games under a manager that pretty much all the players knew well, Mount even better than the rest.  I can't help thinking that Lampard was perhaps the final insult for a lot of the players who quit (and some who were unable to quit because of fitness).  
I once said in 2021 that the Lampard issue would be the end to that site because the illogical love for him as manager (we all love the player) would bring it down.  So I can well imagine how Mount got turned on.

To quote myself 2 hours ago:

2 hours ago, Dwmh said:

Rudiger is different but if watching Chelsea last season was frustrating for us, imagine what it would have been like for Rudiger to be playing for us then or now.   Frankly I'm glad I don't have to watch that.  Or Werner, or Jorginho or Kepa or Havertz or Pulisic.  There is a lot of players that I am pleased to say have escaped the embarrassment and finger pointing of this season.

I should have added Mount but I'd assumed he got a free ride.  Given his other issues of last season I am still a bit surprised.  Glad for his sake and mine that he is gone.

53 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

The prejudice some posters had about our 2020ish team i

Indeed.
18/19 Sarri  72pts, 3rd, LC final, Europa Winners
19/20 Lampard 66, 4th, FAC final, 
20/21 Lampard/TT 67, 4th, FAC final, CL Winners
21/22 Tuchel 74pts, 3rd, FAC final, LC final, CL QF, SC & CWC winners

Under RA we were mostly 1st or 2nd until 2017 after which we were 3rd /4th but at the time when both Man City and Liverpool were at their peak.

Suddenly - and it really is Sudden, we are a 10th / 12th team with 44-50 points.

[Bones]

4 hours ago, Dwmh said:

Mount is 24 - he is now on top wages whether he performs or not until he reaches 30.  He has the perfect contract to give him at least £50m for his career.  Maybe more.

Yes, but the point was getting another big contract after this one. 

[Bones]

6 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

I'm really greatful I wasn't here.
Of course much of the reason we got 44 points is because we got 5 points from the last 9 games under a manager that pretty much all the players knew well, Mount even better than the rest.  I can't help thinking that Lampard was perhaps the final insult for a lot of the players who quit (and some who were unable to quit because of fitness).  
I once said in 2021 that the Lampard issue would be the end to that site because the illogical love for him as manager (we all love the player) would bring it down.  So I can well imagine how Mount got turned on.

To quote myself 2 hours ago:

I should have added Mount but I'd assumed he got a free ride.  Given his other issues of last season I am still a bit surprised.  Glad for his sake and mine that he is gone.

Indeed.
18/19 Sarri  72pts, 3rd, LC final, Europa Winners
19/20 Lampard 66, 4th, FAC final, 
20/21 Lampard/TT 67, 4th, FAC final, CL Winners
21/22 Tuchel 74pts, 3rd, FAC final, LC final, CL QF, SC & CWC winners

Under RA we were mostly 1st or 2nd until 2017 after which we were 3rd /4th but at the time when both Man City and Liverpool were at their peak.

Suddenly - and it really is Sudden, we are a 10th / 12th team with 44-50 points.

Yes, plus we also got really hard done by in a few of those LC/FAC finals.. 🙂

[Dwmh]

21 minutes ago, Bones said:

Yes, but the point was getting another big contract after this one. 

I feel pretty sure Mount is on a bigger deal at Man U than he would have got from this lot.

19 minutes ago, Bones said:

Yes, plus we also got really hard done by in a few of those LC/FAC finals.. 🙂

We were a good team.  yes.

[xceleryx]

3 hours ago, Dwmh said:

18/19 Sarri  72pts, 3rd, LC final, Europa Winners
19/20 Lampard 66, 4th, FAC final, 
20/21 Lampard/TT 67, 4th, FAC final, CL Winners
21/22 Tuchel 74pts, 3rd, FAC final, LC final, CL QF, SC & CWC winners

Under RA we were mostly 1st or 2nd until 2017 after which we were 3rd /4th but at the time when both Man City and Liverpool were at their peak.

Suddenly - and it really is Sudden, we are a 10th / 12th team with 44-50 points.

And as you've routinely been told, and remind again just before by @boratsbrother, we also largely benefited by teams around us choking when it mattered most allowing us to squeeze into that top 4 position.

18/19 - We may have finished on 72pts but only were only 2 ahead of 5th placed Arsenal. Our second half of the season would've had us 6th, 4pts better off than 12th placed Burnley in that time. Tottenham were ahead of us going into the New Year, but fell off at the back end themselves. We could've quite easily have finished 4th or 5th. We also had quite possibly the easiest run of European fixtures I've seen any club have. Virtually didn't play a competitive team until the semi-final vs Frankfurt and nearly bottled it. Then it took Hazard to carry us in the final after one of the worst opening 45 minutes to a final. 

19/20 - We were 4th when the league stopped in March 2020, 5 points behind 3rd placed Leicester and 3 ahead of Man Utd in 5th. When things resumed we finished out the season with the 5th best return from the remaining games, if Leicester didn't bottle it completely picking up only 12 points from their last 10 games we'd have likely finished 5th - given Man Utd had the second strongest finish to the season behind only Man City (despite one less match). 

20/21 - Finished 4th but only just. Bottled our own future by losing to Villa in the final game of the season 2-1, only for Leicester to drop the ball themselves in a 4-2 loss to Tottenham. Ended up finishing a single points ahead of Leicester and 2 points ahead of 5th placed West Ham. Could have quite easily have finished the season in 5th. 

21/22 - A strong first half of the season had us 2nd going into the new year (albeit it had played more games than some other teams). Yet again we dropped off in the second half of the season collecting 32 pts from our 18 games. Deserved to finish were we did on merit. 

Our league form isn't as impressive as you try and paint it just by numbers alone. 

[ROTG]

2 hours ago, xceleryx said:

And as you've routinely been told, and remind again just before by @boratsbrother, we also largely benefited by teams around us choking when it mattered most allowing us to squeeze into that top 4 position.

18/19 - We may have finished on 72pts but only were only 2 ahead of 5th placed Arsenal. Our second half of the season would've had us 6th, 4pts better off than 12th placed Burnley in that time. Tottenham were ahead of us going into the New Year, but fell off at the back end themselves. We could've quite easily have finished 4th or 5th. We also had quite possibly the easiest run of European fixtures I've seen any club have. Virtually didn't play a competitive team until the semi-final vs Frankfurt and nearly bottled it. Then it took Hazard to carry us in the final after one of the worst opening 45 minutes to a final. 

19/20 - We were 4th when the league stopped in March 2020, 5 points behind 3rd placed Leicester and 3 ahead of Man Utd in 5th. When things resumed we finished out the season with the 5th best return from the remaining games, if Leicester didn't bottle it completely picking up only 12 points from their last 10 games we'd have likely finished 5th - given Man Utd had the second strongest finish to the season behind only Man City (despite one less match). 

20/21 - Finished 4th but only just. Bottled our own future by losing to Villa in the final game of the season 2-1, only for Leicester to drop the ball themselves in a 4-2 loss to Tottenham. Ended up finishing a single points ahead of Leicester and 2 points ahead of 5th placed West Ham. Could have quite easily have finished the season in 5th. 

21/22 - A strong first half of the season had us 2nd going into the new year (albeit it had played more games than some other teams). Yet again we dropped off in the second half of the season collecting 32 pts from our 18 games. Deserved to finish were we did on merit. 

Our league form isn't as impressive as you try and paint it just by numbers alone. 

League tables and trophy rooms do not lie, however much you try to rubbish the previous regime and the success achieved during their time at the club.

The team is light years away if ever from being a +90pts team, and  would be very surprised if the team can make top 4 in the coming years with the current squad.

[xceleryx]

31 minutes ago, ROTG said:

League tables and trophy rooms do not lie, however much you try to rubbish the previous regime and the success achieved during their time at the club.

The team is light years away if ever from being a +90pts team, and  would be very surprised if the team can make top 4 in the coming years with the current squad.

There's also a huge fucking amount of context that gets lost just looking at things from a face value perspective, but of course that doesn't fit the narrative so is conveniently brushed under the carpet.

I've also not "rubbished the previous regime". In fact, never mentioned them. However, in true ROTG fashion you bring up something that's entirely irrelevant to what was being discussed - which of course was to highlight that we had our fair share of good fortune to secure some of the league positions we did during the aforementioned periods mentioned by Droy.

No shit we're light years away from being a 90+ point team at present, it's almost as if we're 6 months into a rebuilding process with a present focus on young talent, thank you captain obvious. We also weren't close to being one previously either.

[Floyd25]

16 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

We also weren't close to being one previously either.

True, which is why we should’ve added proven quality in key areas, not gone full kamikaze and signed truck loads of kids. Also on a side note, will be interesting next month if Poch picks Gallagher to play and finds out he’s been sold to Spurs, Boehly may as well make himself head coach if that’s the case. 

[ROTG]

36 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

There's also a huge fucking amount of context that gets lost just looking at things from a face value perspective, but of course that doesn't fit the narrative so is conveniently brushed under the carpet.

I've also not "rubbished the previous regime". In fact, never mentioned them. However, in true ROTG fashion you bring up something that's entirely irrelevant to what was being discussed - which of course was to highlight that we had our fair share of good fortune to secure some of the league positions we did during the aforementioned periods mentioned by Droy.

No shit we're light years away from being a 90+ point team at present, it's almost as if we're 6 months into a rebuilding process with a present focus on young talent, thank you captain obvious. We also weren't close to being one previously either.

Man, your strawman is the of the best!

Once again, the "fair share of good fortune" is so wrong, at the end of the day even after the clubs last PL triumph the team continued to deliver a top four finish season after season along with domestic and European trophies.

As for context, it not relevant in the big picture, nobody remembers teams who lose finals or the team that comes 5th in the PL and the cock and bull about how other teams performed in parts of the season who finished below 4th place is nothing more than clutching at straws to try a prove the good fortune quote. Therefore, face value is the correct statement especially on historical items.

Alternatively, one could say your continual statement of there are going to be bumps in the road with this rebuild, should not be taken at face value as the context is really its more likely pot holes rather than bumps in the road.

We were a lot nearer being a +90pts team in August 2022, and could have built on this with a little tweaking at probably one third of the cost.

Maybe you can enlighten us on when you think the +70, +80, +90 pts Chelsea teams will surface again?

Having an OG moment, I remember the early versions of football manager game on PC's in the ~90's, you could win the league in about 5 - 7 season by purchasing the best young talents in the lower leagues training the life out of them until they were either in the first teamers or sold on for profit. Maybe the ownership are fans of the early football manager game?