ROTG Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, east lower said: Must be quite difficult talking to the dog or the flock, with that tongue stuffed so firmly in your cheek! 😉 Thank you for saying tongue in cheek , some on this forum might have used another oral expressions 😀 Edited January 6 by ROTG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 5 minutes ago, xceleryx said: Sarcasm aside, it's almost as if some signings are made on the basis that they may end up being sold in a couple years time. Not every signing has to be for the first team, a mind-blowing concept I know. He cost us like £8.6m, absolute peanuts in this day and age. And there's nothing out there right now to clarify if it's a loan or sale. Maybe he could be used as a part-ex on Toney when Brentford get relegated in May "Oh sorry we can't buy players from relegated team" 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Just now, ROTG said: Maybe he could be used as a part-ex on Toney when Brentford get relegated in May "Oh sorry we can't buy players from relegated team" 😀 I wouldn't exchange a library card for Toney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 2 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said: Apparently Dybala's contract at Roma includes a release clause, active until January 15th, for only €12m and it then becomes active at the same price again in July. He averages about 1 G/A per game since he joined Roma. 15 goals & 12 assists in 2023, also 3 goals & 3 assists in last 6 games... and 35 G/A since he joined Roma. His name comes up a lot and i’m not suggesting he’s the answer and probably plays in the same position we want Palmer/Nkunku in, but surely for those figures someone is taking a punt on him? He’s 30, so you’d hopefully get a good few years out of him and he would give us some much needed experience. From memory he does like to visit the treatment table quite often though, so he’d feel at home here. The star player by a mile when I was there to see them win 7-0 near start of the season. 26 minutes ago, xceleryx said: Sarcasm aside, it's almost as if some signings are made on the basis that they may end up being sold in a couple years time. Not every signing has to be for the first team, a mind-blowing concept I know. He cost us like £8.6m, absolute peanuts in this day and age. And there's nothing out there right now to clarify if it's a loan or sale. Add in wages (200k for 6 1/2 years according to Spotrac*!!) that means we just need to find a club willing to put in £75m total to take on the rest of his contract and pay us for our investment. Peanuts. *Can't resist the sarcasm but that is what Spotrac actually says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 2 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said: The massive issue with that is that he clearly doesn’t want to be here, he’s burnt almost all his bridges with the club and majority of fans and we tried it before and it did not work. [Lukaku] The massive issue is that the owners walked into a club that was already in conflict after one season with a player with a huge 5 year contract. Yet for some reason they thought that 7 or 8 year slave contracts were risk free. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 hour ago, Dwmh said: [Lukaku] The massive issue is that the owners walked into a club that was already in conflict after one season with a player with a huge 5 year contract. Yet for some reason they thought that 7 or 8 year slave contracts were risk free. Slave contracts? Remind me , how much was a slave paid per week , generally? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 minute ago, Mark Kelly said: Slave contracts? Remind me , how much was a slave paid per week , generally? Well ask Palmer in a couple of years what he thinks about his 7 year contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoblyBobly Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 On 03/01/2024 at 03:26, Original 21 said: I thought the reason Silva was passed over for captain was because of the language barrier (only captains are allowed to speak to the ref on the pitch these days) and secondly, to look to the future. But really it’s because the manager thinks the captain should be English to communicate with the refs. That’s why the captains have all been English (James, Chilwell, Gallagher, Colwill). I’m pretty sure Silva knows this. I’d never thought of that, but you’d think after living in the country for a few years he’d have a basic grasp. But then the name Diego Costa springs to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dwmh said: Well ask Palmer in a couple of years what he thinks about his 7 year contract Not very I expect , but he was a fool to sign one for no wages to be bought and sold as a chattel then wasn't he? Edited January 6 by Mark Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 hour ago, Dwmh said: Add in wages (200k for 6 1/2 years according to Spotrac*!!) that means we just need to find a club willing to put in £75m total to take on the rest of his contract and pay us for our investment. Peanuts. *Can't resist the sarcasm but that is what Spotrac actually says Not sure how you get £75m when D Fofana earns around £35k pw? Presume you've looked at Wes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 2 minutes ago, xceleryx said: Not sure how you get £75m when D Fofana earns around £35k pw? Presume you've looked at Wes? https://www.spotrac.com/epl/chelsea-fc/david-fofana-80408/ Obviously I don't believe any of these numbers, but it is the Spotrac number for David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTG Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 2 hours ago, xceleryx said: I wouldn't exchange a library card for Toney. Library card or not he's an upgrade on what we currently have, with the exception of the striker the club loaned to JM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 18 minutes ago, Dwmh said: https://www.spotrac.com/epl/chelsea-fc/david-fofana-80408/ Obviously I don't believe any of these numbers, but it is the Spotrac number for David. Yeah, that's definitely incorrect. That would be more than Enzo, which isn't happening. Spotrac are known for being awfully inaccurate though to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 19 minutes ago, xceleryx said: Yeah, that's definitely incorrect. That would be more than Enzo, which isn't happening. Would it? I doubt it. Oh you mean more than Spotrac have for Enzo. Sure. 19 minutes ago, xceleryx said: Spotrac are known for being awfully inaccurate though to be fair. and for being the best available... ... except the few totally trustworthy ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xceleryx Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 2 minutes ago, Dwmh said: Would it? I doubt it. Oh you mean more than Spotrac have for Enzo. Sure. No, I mean more as a whole. Enzo is on a reported £190k, there's absolutely no chance in hell we're paying Dasto Fofana who we paid £8.6m for £200k pw. I'll staple my nut sack to my inner thigh if he is. 3 minutes ago, Dwmh said: and for being the best available... ... except the few totally trustworthy ones Maybe with other sports but not when it comes to football. They're notorious for being bad, or at least were a couple years ago. Check out Capology, far more in-depth and accurate IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 5 minutes ago, xceleryx said: No, I mean more as a whole. Enzo is on a reported £190k, there's absolutely no chance in hell we're paying Dasto Fofana who we paid £8.6m for £200k pw. I'll staple my nut sack to my inner thigh if he is. And I mean there is no way Enzo is on £190k immediataely after winning the WC - it is just that if the Chelsea board say we pay low wages, people put too much weighting on that. 6 minutes ago, xceleryx said: Maybe with other sports but not when it comes to football. They're notorious for being bad, or at least were a couple years ago. Check out Capology, far more in-depth and accurate IMO. Every single one of them is using the same information. 1. Club wage totals, where available and 18 months after the fact, and with not idea whose performance bonuses, sign on bonuses, terminal bonuses, and deductions for insurance payments are included in which years. 2. Rumours spread by a mixture of people mostly who haven't a clue and with an unnamed few who might know but would be sued if they actually gave an honest number and want to distort anyway. It isn't even GIGO, it is deliberate lies in, deliberate lies out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 hour ago, Dwmh said: And I mean there is no way Enzo is on £190k immediataely after winning the WC - it is just that if the Chelsea board say we pay low wages, people put too much weighting on that. Every single one of them is using the same information. 1. Club wage totals, where available and 18 months after the fact, and with not idea whose performance bonuses, sign on bonuses, terminal bonuses, and deductions for insurance payments are included in which years. 2. Rumours spread by a mixture of people mostly who haven't a clue and with an unnamed few who might know but would be sued if they actually gave an honest number and want to distort anyway. It isn't even GIGO, it is deliberate lies in, deliberate lies out. Surely, if as you say, they're "slave contracts" we won't be paying them anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 21 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said: Surely, if as you say, they're "slave contracts" we won't be paying them anything. Are you still on about one word? Do you really think I meant it literally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kelly Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 9 minutes ago, Dwmh said: Are you still on about one word? Do you really think I meant it literally? You were doing what you always do, making something up then arguing that it was wrong to do it. You know full well that they're not slave contracts at all, the players are free to leave whenever they like, all the longer contracts do is allow us the time to get more value out of the player or realise their worth. It's a good thing not a bad thing. But you knew that all along. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 33 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said: You were doing what you always do, making something up then arguing that it was wrong to do it. You know full well that they're not slave contracts at all, the players are free to leave whenever they like, all the longer contracts do is allow us the time to get more value out of the player or realise their worth. It's a good thing not a bad thing. But you knew that all along. They are long term contracts of the kind Bosman fought against and which well might fall foul in courts and are very likely to fall foul when players are determined to break them. They are (IMO) very much bad things for some players who sign them too quickly. They are probably very bad things for the club mostly because Agents will encourage players to break them when they out perform, but the club will find it very hard to break them when the player does badly (or gets injured). Again - they are bad things. Sure I used an emotive word - they are horrible things and IMO have had a significant on what appears to be a toxic atmosphere at the club. If you want to disagree on the merits of long term contracts why spend so many posts just talking about a single word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCreadie Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 16 minutes ago, Dwmh said: Sure I used an emotive word - they are horrible things and IMO have had a significant on what appears to be a toxic atmosphere at the club. What toxic atmosphere? I see no evidence of that at all. Thats a pretty weird agenda to be pushing. We also know absolutely nothing of the finer details and break clauses in these contracts, so it is impossible to pass any measured comment on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 14 minutes ago, McCreadie said: What toxic atmosphere? I see no evidence of that at all. Thats a pretty weird agenda to be pushing. No toxic atmosphere at Chelsea? OK, maybe they are just partying too much. But the only senior players post RA not to have left are now Betinelli, Silva, Gallagher, Chalobah, James and Chilwell. And 2 of them are reported to be off this window. 16 minutes ago, McCreadie said: We also know absolutely nothing of the finer details and break clauses in these contracts, so it is impossible to pass any measured comment on them. True we only know the contract length (which is reported by the club). But we also know that the club believes that long contracts for young players is a sensible investment policy and that they are using that policy. They also claim to have be bringing the wage bill down. So we know the strategy, and the strategy is controversial. But if the players have options to shorten the length of their contract or break them early that really should be part of the club's reporting and should negate the depreciation policy As far as I am aware it isn't and doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCreadie Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 5 minutes ago, Dwmh said: No toxic atmosphere at Chelsea? OK, maybe they are just partying too much. But the only senior players post RA not to have left are now Betinelli, Silva, Gallagher, Chalobah, James and Chilwell. And 2 of them are reported to be off this window. That has been an owner driven systematic clearout (a sizeable part of which was totally necessary) and certainly would have led to a toxic atmosphere last season. There is no evidence to suggest that atmosphere prevails now. Chalobah is likely the only one with the hump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwmh Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 12 minutes ago, McCreadie said: That has been an owner driven systematic clearout (a sizeable part of which was totally necessary) and certainly would have led to a toxic atmosphere last season. There is no evidence to suggest that atmosphere prevails now. Chalobah is likely the only one with the hump. other than the way we play and the points we don't get, and the fact that we have lost 8 games without ever being down at h/t. I'd say there was a ton of evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCreadie Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 2 hours ago, Dwmh said: other than the way we play and the points we don't get, and the fact that we have lost 8 games without ever being down at h/t. I'd say there was a ton of evidence. Frustrated yes. Disappointed yes. “Toxic” suggests infighting and unrest. No. 5 wins in the last 6 games. Green shoots of positivity. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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