Transfer Talk Topic

[martin1905]

Following on from that I'd love to know what people see in Osimhen, especially those that don't want Toney.

He would cost £150m, is completely unproven at the highest level and has had one good season in Italy. I've not watched that much of him but from what I have seen he looks very limited. He looks to me like a slim Lukaku, great finisher in the box but offers hardly anything else, compare that to Ivan Toney, who I have purposeful watched a lot of and its night and day.

Toney is a complete striker. He's big, strong, quick, good in the air, works hard, is a real handful for defenders. His movement reminds me of Crespo,  he drifts out wide, drops deep and is very good technically. He  has incredible awareness and understanding, his link up and hold up play is as good as anything in today's game plus as an added bonus  he's a really good finisher.

His penalty record, along with the way he came back yesterday and being a captain shows how mentally strong he is and that he's a leader on the pitch.

If you were to write a list of what attributes you want in a striker he ticks every box. Then add in he is premier league proven, in his prime, which I see as a positive rather than a negative, he's a leader, appears mentally very strong and you have the perfect player.

People will have to tell me why they don't want Ivan Toney for £80m(?) yet want Victor Osimhen for £150m(?).  I can only assume its the romance of signing a 'superstar' striker from a foreign league because in terms of ability there's only one choice.

I think people  just don't like him,  have made their mind up about him without really seeing him play and have been swayed by the £150m superstar,  probably without seeing too much of him either and it's crazy. 

So please, no one will change my mind on Toney, I would buy him above any striker on the planet right now, assuming we can't get Haaland, Kane or Mbappe, someone tell me what I'm missing when I watch this £150m striker because all I see is an overhyped, overrated player playing in a far inferior league that looks bang average.

Edited January 22 by martin1905

[martin1905]

1 hour ago, Thiago97 said:

I only have one doubt on him. Brentford play everything through him. If not everything goes through him at Chelsea, does he have the same impact ? I think he can, and I think his teammates and manager will soon realise that everything positive ends up going through him.

 

He'd have a much bigger impact here in my opinion. What he would do for Sterling, Palmer, Nkunku would change the whole dynamic of our attack. They would all thrive playing with him as the focal point. He's such a handful for defenders both physically and the way he drags them around he would create so much space for the other attacking players to exploit. 

Plus he would thrive playing ahead of those players from a goalscoring point of view.

 

[paulw66]

37 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Not that big a leap in my opinion, looking at exactly where Arsenal are, what they need and what he would bring to them, he could very well be the difference. 

 

Or he might not. It's guess work. Arsenal's "problems" getting over the line last year were not down to lack of goals.

37 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

 

In his prime, with premier league experience and even at £80m, in today's market that's not an outrageous fee.

 

Bit like Lukaku, but with MUCH less pedigree. 

37 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

 

Victor Osimhen who plays in a  pub league and has had one good season, for probably twice the price. Bizarre.

I don't think he will cost 160m, and he's 3 1/2 years younger. 

and how many "good" seasons has Toney had at the top level? One. 

Edited January 22 by paulw66

[paulw66]

Toney has scored 22 non-penalty goals in the top division in his entire career, and Osimhen is the bigger risk? Bizarre 

[Mark Kelly]

Here's a headline for the Tuchel in brigade ( if such a thing exists?) 

Thomas Tuchel 'goes full Mourinho' at Bayern Munich as he blames his stars and blasts 'nobody believes' they train well... but they say 'question the approach' instead - and he's warned about his future

[martin1905]

25 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Toney has scored 22 non-penalty goals in the top division in his entire career, and Osimhen is the bigger risk? Bizarre 

And Osimhen has scored none.

[paulw66]

2 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

And Osimhen has scored none.

Ok.

 

[martin1905]

31 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Or he might not. It's guess work. Arsenal's "problems" getting over the line last year were not down to lack of goals.

I've never mentioned goals.

He would add goals, for sure, but he would also add so much more.

31 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Bit like Lukaku, but with MUCH less pedigree. 

Nothing like Lukaku.

31 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

I don't think he will cost 160m, and he's 3 1/2 years younger. 

It's 2 1/2 years but still. 

We won't be getting Oshimen for much less than £150m

31 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

and how many "good" seasons has Toney had at the top level? One. 

Well that would be 2.

[paulw66]

3 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

 

Well that would be 2.

 

If you want to count 7 non-penalty goals as a good season, that's your lookout.

[paulw66]

5 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

 

Nothing like Lukaku.

 

similar age, similar fee, is what I meant. Only Lukaku had scored 100+ PL goals by then.

The point being, that there is no guarantee.

[McCreadie]

The striker choice all comes down to someone intelligent enough to play against the fabled low block. In some ways, it’s harder for a striker to thrive against that setup, than against a much better team with better defenders, that are set up more progressively. Brentford don’t really have that problem and Toney doesn’t really live that day in, day out. I think Toney is decent and maybe could work in a Drogba type way for us. He is, at least, much more mobile than Lukaku. But as others have said, it’s one decent season and a lot of penalties…

Osimhen, I share the scepticism to a degree and he could easily fail gloriously here. I mentioned Sesko yesterday, who is really green and inexperienced at the highest level, but has good movement in the box and scores a lot of goals from outside the box, which we have missed hugely in recent years. Only 50m, but not sure we need another one for the future!
Not sure I want any of them!!

[Chelsea_Matt]

3 hours ago, Bison said:

This Caicedo hate is so bizarre. I can only assume the majority of our fans don't watch games but just spreadsheets instead. 

You’ll note I said “so far”, because imo he’s been absolutely shit. Like Enzo and so many others.

[martin1905]

Just now, paulw66 said:

 

If you want to count 7 non-penalty goals as a good season, that's your lookout.

So 7 non penalty goals or 12 goals in total for a newly promoted Brentford isn't a good season, doesn't matter what else he bought to the team? Also, not once have I mentioned Toney's goals. Not once. If you read what I've been saying about him it's everything else that I like and why he would be so good for us.

Be interesting to see how many strikers of newly promoted teams get into double figures in their first ever season. Might actually be more of a challenge than you give it credit for. Might not be, I have no idea but......

Drogba, playing for a much better team scored 10 in his first season.

10, 12, 20, 8, 5, 29, 11, 5. That's Didier Drogba's league goal record for us. Season by season. So much more to a strikers game than just goals.

[paulw66]

6 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

So 7 non penalty goals or 12 goals in total for a newly promoted Brentford isn't a good season, doesn't matter what else he bought to the team? Also, not once have I mentioned Toney's goals. Not once. If you read what I've been saying about him it's everything else that I like and why he would be so good for us.

Be interesting to see how many strikers of newly promoted teams get into double figures in their first ever season. Might actually be more of a challenge than you give it credit for. Might not be, I have no idea but......

Drogba, playing for a much better team scored 10 in his first season.

10, 12, 20, 8, 5, 29, 11, 5. That's Didier Drogba's league goal record for us. Season by season. So much more to a strikers game than just goals.

Drogba's first two seasons included a fair few injuries too, but we're veering off topic.

The proof of the pudding will be if anyone does decide to go big. My guess will be no, but let's see 

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, martin1905 said:

Not that big a leap in my opinion, looking at exactly where Arsenal are, what they need and what he would bring to them, he could very well be the difference. 

The real question is, why would Toney come to Chelsea, when at 28 one of the top 4 come knocking offering CL football and certainly a higher salary, vs a team in transition with no clear path of returning to the top

Arsenal are welcome to the new Ian Wright or may be its the new Pepe

BTW - If control give you a pick at Heathrow on Thursday morning then it's probably me  👍

[ROTG]

28 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

Be interesting to see how many strikers of newly promoted teams get into double figures in their first ever season

Bamford leeds

 

Edited January 22 by ROTG

[thevelourfog]

4 hours ago, Sciatika said:

Maybe it is the wrong thread, but apparently, Casey Stoney is on the list as a possible target to replace Emma Hayes. However, she has only been at San Diego Wave for a couple of years, so it might be too soon for her. Also, she has less experience despite having a period as player-manager of Chelsea for 6 months in 2009. Other candidates include Elísabeth Gunarsdóttir of Kristianstands DFF and Laura Harvey of Seattle Reign. The recruitment process is being led by Winstanley and Stewart.

I did wonder the other day if Wiegman's new England contract might have been the result of her agent saying to the FA "well here's what Chelsea have put on the table". I don't know enough about women's football internationally to have strong opinions. I instinctively would prefer a woman and that the women's game provides women with coaching opportunities but accept it is a bit more complicated than that.

Think the hard truth is we have the best in the game, that's why the US wanted her, and it's a downgrade whoever comes in.

[thevelourfog]

Diego Moreira recalled. Already made a sub appearance for us before going to Lyon, so can't play for a third club before July. Either it was going so badly at Lyon that doing nothing for 6 months is better than staying there, or someone thinks he can be of first team use.

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

Drogba's first two seasons included a fair few injuries too, but we're veering off topic.

 

And Gudjouhnsen and Crespo meant he didn't start that much at all.

[ROTG]

5 hours ago, Sciatika said:

The recruitment process is being led by Winstanley and Stewart.

Oh dear. 

If it not broken 

[paulw66]

2 hours ago, Dwmh said:

And Gudjouhnsen and Crespo meant he didn't start that much at all.

38 PL starts for his 22 PL goals in seasons 1 and 2. 

I know you have pointed this out before, but the main difference in season 3 was the number of starts, not the improvement of output 

32 starts for 20 PL goals in season 3. On par (slightly improved) with the combined 1+2

Edited January 22 by paulw66

[xceleryx]

8 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

Diego Moreira recalled. Already made a sub appearance for us before going to Lyon, so can't play for a third club before July. Either it was going so badly at Lyon that doing nothing for 6 months is better than staying there, or someone thinks he can be of first team use.

It's neither.

Basically the Moreira situation was influenced by Mendes trying to get his foot in the door at Lyon and done as a favour by Textor, hence the surprising €2.8m loan fee they paid to secure a deal for a virtual no one. As I understand it we had no real expectation to initially loan Moreira out, presuming no one would be interested in him and therefore was set to be part of our U/21 setup. That changed with Lyon coming in and offering what they did. 

They've gone on to have one of their worst seasons ever, currently sitting 2 points above relegation. Moreira isn't of that level yet and deemed considerably raw still, despite some underlying talent there. So his playing time as been minimal, which probably also hasn't helped with the predicament Lyon are in. 

From what some Lyon fans have said there's been no issue with Moreira in terms of his mentality, work rate, or attitude during his time there, he's just not at a Ligue 1 level. They're also in the process of trying to sign Danjuma and other attackers that can be more impactful in their fight to stay up, so that probably influenced their decision to end the loan early also. 

He'll likely go back into our U/21 setup and play there, maybe seeing the seniors bench if we're short at any point. I don't expect him to get much of a first team role upon return. 

[Chelsea_Matt]

30 minutes ago, xceleryx said:

It's neither.

Basically the Moreira situation was influenced by Mendes trying to get his foot in the door at Lyon and done as a favour by Textor, hence the surprising €2.8m loan fee they paid to secure a deal for a virtual no one. As I understand it we had no real expectation to initially loan Moreira out, presuming no one would be interested in him and therefore was set to be part of our U/21 setup. That changed with Lyon coming in and offering what they did. 

They've gone on to have one of their worst seasons ever, currently sitting 2 points above relegation. Moreira isn't of that level yet and deemed considerably raw still, despite some underlying talent there. So his playing time as been minimal, which probably also hasn't helped with the predicament Lyon are in. 

From what some Lyon fans have said there's been no issue with Moreira in terms of his mentality, work rate, or attitude during his time there, he's just not at a Ligue 1 level. They're also in the process of trying to sign Danjuma and other attackers that can be more impactful in their fight to stay up, so that probably influenced their decision to end the loan early also. 

He'll likely go back into our U/21 setup and play there, maybe seeing the seniors bench if we're short at any point. I don't expect him to get much of a first team role upon return. 

So another stupid, senseless signing.

[Floyd25]

1 hour ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

So another stupid, senseless signing.

Profit signing basically, unless he develops in to something unexpected at this stage, Angelo looks a far better prospect at Strasbourg. 

[xceleryx]

2 hours ago, Chelsea_Matt said:

So another stupid, senseless signing.

He signed as an 18 year old on a free transfer from Benfica on the back of winning the UEFA Youth League in 2022.

A little ridiculous getting your panties in a bunch over such a signing, the type of signing we've been making for the best part of the last 20 years, irrespective if he develops or not.