Transfer Talk Topic

[Mark Kelly]

17 minutes ago, McCreadie said:

I expect that's what the Wolfsburg fans were saying when they bought de Bruyne from us. 

It's quite amazing where all these great young players that have lit up the world have come from if they're all crap isn't it?

[ROTG]

52 minutes ago, McCreadie said:

I expect that's what the Wolfsburg fans were saying when they bought de Bruyne from us. 

Doubt it, Not sure Wolfsburg were a top team in Germany at the time - Maybe that is why the alleged Duran transfer fits the clubs current brief

Also one will assume Wolfsburg had been looking at KDB for the season he was at Werder Bremen - I wonder how many times our scouting dept have watched Duran in the PL

[ROTG]

43 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

It's quite amazing where all these great young players that have lit up the world have come from if they're all crap isn't it?

Mason Mount was a great kid POTY twice in succession, what do you think of him now?

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, ROTG said:

Mason Mount was a great kid POTY twice in succession, what do you think of him now?

He scored 11 goals one season , Cole Palmer has 9 and we're half way through , what do you think of him now?

[boratsbrother]

8 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

He scored 11 goals one season , Cole Palmer has 9 and we're half way through , what do you think of him now?

Palmer is  on a completely different level to Mount!  

 

[Thiago97]

3 hours ago, ROTG said:

Duran recruitment would certainly sum up where the club are, as he cannot make it in a top PL team, however he is good enough for Chelsea for the next 8 years

Where is it proven he cannot make it in a top team ? Signed as a teenager from the MLS, moves to a new country where the standard to succeed is higher than anywhere else. He has been here 1 year, showed great potential in that time, was not signed to be their No1 striker now, and has one of the most improved and in-form strikers in the league established well ahead of him.

He may go on to not be good enough. He has not shown anything of the sort yet.

Stop spouting such nonsense.

[ROTG]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

He scored 11 goals one season , Cole Palmer has 9 and we're half way through , what do you think of him now?

Think of who?

[ROTG]

50 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

Where is it proven he cannot make it in a top team ? Signed as a teenager from the MLS, moves to a new country where the standard to succeed is higher than anywhere else. He has been here 1 year, showed great potential in that time, was not signed to be their No1 striker now, and has one of the most improved and in-form strikers in the league established well ahead of him.

He may go on to not be good enough. He has not shown anything of the sort yet.

Stop spouting such nonsense.

Not sure of you take, but assume you are saying he is a number two like Jackson, therefore why is the club prepared "if we are to believe the media waste money on another number two" when the priority is a top draw striker?

[Mark Kelly]

35 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Think of who?

Mount , surrounded by all those amazing players , first name on the team sheet , with a far superior  coach and gets 11 goals 

Whereas by your own vitriolic assessment Palmer playing with a bunch of "brighton and Bournemouth" level players has got 9 in half the time. 

I'll give you your due though Mount has been a revelation at United . 

[Mark Kelly]

33 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Not sure of you take, but assume you are saying he is a number two like Jackson, therefore why is the club prepared "if we are to believe the media waste money on another number two" when the priority is a top draw striker?

You think all our players are number two's .

[ROTG]

14 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Mount , surrounded by all those amazing players , first name on the team sheet , with a far superior  coach and gets 11 goals 

Whereas by your own vitriolic assessment Palmer playing with a bunch of "brighton and Bournemouth" level players has got 9 in half the time. 

 

Not sure of what you are trying to prove, unless you mean Palmer has found his level as a far superior squad and coach released him in favour of other younger players at the club.

 

Edited January 30 by ROTG
One can only assume you are referring to TT and not SFL as a far superior coach

[ROTG]

9 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

You think all our players are number two's .

No they are at a certain level which is not good enough for top 4 teams - Kind of rise and repeat debate

[Thiago97]

55 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Not sure of you take, but assume you are saying he is a number two like Jackson, therefore why is the club prepared "if we are to believe the media waste money on another number two" when the priority is a top draw striker?

No, I am not saying anything of the sort. 

I am responding to your comment of 'he cannot make it at a top PL team'

We simply don't know that, as he has not had chance yet to show this. I don't base my whole opinion of a player on where he is in a pecking order at his current club, or what club wants to try and sign him. You should give it a go.

There is always context and circumstances involved.

[Bones]

Mount was a top player for us.

Something happened with him mentally or something in his personal life and the performances have dropped of a cliff.

[martin1905]

25 minutes ago, ROTG said:

No they are at a certain level which is not good enough for top 4 teams - Kind of rise and repeat debate

We've had 4 nailed on first team players injured pretty much all season. 3 of our back 4. Plus Lavia and Chalobah I wonder how Liverpool would fair without 3 of their back 4, I mean they lost 2 of theirs  and went from 99 points to 69 then 92 the following season when they came back.

That's pretty much a third of their points and a pretty good example. So what would we have have with a fully fit squad, or at least not being without 75% of our first choice defence? If we, like they, were a third better off we would be 2 points off top 4. Then imagine the difference Nkunku would have made. It's really not that difficult to imagine if we weren't missing a so many players, all season we would be very close.

It's a funny old game.

 

Edited January 30 by martin1905

[ROTG]

9 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

No, I am not saying anything of the sort. 

I am responding to your comment of 'he cannot make it at a top PL team'

We simply don't know that, as he has not had chance yet to show this. I don't base my whole opinion of a player on where he is in a pecking order at his current club, or what club wants to try and sign him. You should give it a go.

There is always context and circumstances involved.

Sorry to continue, and you do make valid points 

However our club has gone through 12 month of this experiment of player development at huge cost financially and it has not exactly been a roaring success IMO, and wasting more money on another chancer. If the deal happens you also have to ask yourself is this a sports department or Poch buy

 

[Thiago97]

5 minutes ago, ROTG said:

Sorry to continue, and you do make valid points 

However our club has gone through 12 month of this experiment of player development at huge cost financially and it has not exactly been a roaring success IMO, and wasting more money on another chancer. If the deal happens you also have to ask yourself is this a sports department or Poch buy

 

If it happens, I would say it is a sports department buy. I don't really have any problem with that. Poch is the head coach on a 2 year deal. He knows and understands what his role is, that don't mean he should not have some input at times, but his job is to coach them squad he has.

We don't know it would be a waste of money though. He looks a very good young player now, with a lot of potential to develop further. Is he currently the top level striker who can find us 20 goals a season? You would have to say that is unlikely. We can all agree that a big mistake club made was going into this season with only Jackson and Broja, despite the bad luck with Nkunku injury. I see any potential deal for Duran as a realisation of that situation for the remainder of the season and the future.

Let's say we start next season with three strikers - New No1 , Duran and Jackson then with Nkunku as a potential 4th option to support in that role if/when required. It is a situation that would look a hell of a lot better than where we started this season.

He is most definitely an upgrade on Broja. From what I have seen, a different type of forward to Jackson, but I think probably on a similar level already. The only reason we have not seen more of Duran is below.

Olly Watkins since Emery became coach - 56 games 28 goals and 14 assists.

 

[Dwmh]

8 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

We've had 4 nailed on first team players injured pretty much all season. 3 of our back 4. Plus Lavia and Chalobah I wonder how Liverpool would fair without 3 of their back 4, 

Well they'd have some protection this season because they registered 22 over 21 players of which only 3 were GKs and none as far as I know were expected to be out for at least the first half of the season.
We had 20 over 21 players, of which 4 were GKs, and Nkunku and Fofana were both expected to be out for a long time (and possibly Chalobah who hasnt been available since pre-season).

We may be 10 players short now.  But 5 or 6 of that shortage was built into the squad when we registered at start September.
 

 

17 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

I mean they lost 2 of theirs  and went from 99 points to 69 then 92 the following season when they came back.

Has to be pointed out that a) 69 points is not a bad achievement for a "bad season".  Much like the 74 points we got in 2022 which has retrospectively been pointed out as proof the team needed a complete gutting out.

The level of "shit or bustness"  (and caffeine) required to get 99 or 92 points in a season inevitably leads to some bust from time to time.  Setting your goals too high can lead to big failures.  That is not our problem this year.

[ROTG]

19 minutes ago, martin1905 said:

We've had 4 nailed on first team players injured pretty much all season. 3 of our back 4. Plus Lavia and Chalobah I wonder how Liverpool would fair without 3 of their back 4, I mean they lost 2 of theirs  and went from 99 points to 69 then 92 the following season when they came back.

That's pretty much a third of their points and a pretty good example. So what would we have have with a fully fit squad, or at least not being without 75% of our first choice defence? If we, like they, were a third better off we would be 2 points off top 4. Then imagine the difference Nkunku would have made. It's really not that difficult to imagine if we weren't missing a so many players, all season we would be very close.

It's a funny old game.

 

Good to see you back with your old enthusiasm 

many of those crocked were brought with injury history, therefore it no such a shock for them to be missing for a majority of a season

not sure about the top four and how close we would have been - its a bag of liquorice allsorts. As i have mentioned before if you want the best our of this bunch go get Belisa.

one hopes you are continuing to put ￡3:80 every PL match into the jar 😀

[ROTG]

10 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

If it happens, I would say it is a sports department buy. I don't really have any problem with that. Poch is the head coach on a 2 year deal. He knows and understands what his role is, that don't mean he should not have some input at times, but his job is to coach them squad he has.

We don't know it would be a waste of money though. He looks a very good young player now, with a lot of potential to develop further. Is he currently the top level striker who can find us 20 goals a season? You would have to say that is unlikely. We can all agree that a big mistake club made was going into this season with only Jackson and Broja, despite the bad luck with Nkunku injury. I see any potential deal for Duran as a realisation of that situation for the remainder of the season and the future.

Let's say we start next season with three strikers - New No1 , Duran and Jackson then with Nkunku as a potential 4th option to support in that role if/when required. It is a situation that would look a hell of a lot better than where we started this season.

He is most definitely an upgrade on Broja. From what I have seen, a different type of forward to Jackson, but I think probably on a similar level already. The only reason we have not seen more of Duran is below.

Olly Watkins since Emery became coach - 56 games 28 goals and 14 assists.

 

Good points not going to contest anything, except having 3-4 strikers is depended to playing 60 games and not 40-45 should the team fail to qualify for Europe - that's just my take 

[Chelsea_Matt]

42 minutes ago, Thiago97 said:

If it happens, I would say it is a sports department buy. I don't really have any problem with that. Poch is the head coach on a 2 year deal. He knows and understands what his role is, that don't mean he should not have some input at times, but his job is to coach them squad he has.

We don't know it would be a waste of money though. He looks a very good young player now, with a lot of potential to develop further. Is he currently the top level striker who can find us 20 goals a season? You would have to say that is unlikely. We can all agree that a big mistake club made was going into this season with only Jackson and Broja, despite the bad luck with Nkunku injury. I see any potential deal for Duran as a realisation of that situation for the remainder of the season and the future.

Let's say we start next season with three strikers - New No1 , Duran and Jackson then with Nkunku as a potential 4th option to support in that role if/when required. It is a situation that would look a hell of a lot better than where we started this season.

He is most definitely an upgrade on Broja. From what I have seen, a different type of forward to Jackson, but I think probably on a similar level already. The only reason we have not seen more of Duran is below.

Olly Watkins since Emery became coach - 56 games 28 goals and 14 assists.

 

Bro a blind 97 year old with one leg would be an upgrade on Broja.

[paulw66]

1 hour ago, Dwmh said:

We had 20 over 21 players, of which 4 were GKs, and Nkunku and Fofana were both expected to be out for a long time (and possibly Chalobah who hasnt been available since pre-season).

We may be 10 players short now.  But 5 or 6 of that shortage was built into the squad when we registered at start September.
 

 

Why is 21 the cut off? Yes, the squad is lopsided towards youth, but not sure 21 year olds are counted, but not 20 year olds, or is 22 are and 21 not?

James, Chilwell, Gusto, Colwill, Cucurella, Maatsen, Silva, Disasi, Badiashile, Lavia, Caicedo, Enzo, Ugochukwu, Gallagher, Chukwemeaka, Palmer, Sterling, Madueke, Broja, Jackson, Mudryk

21 outfield players on 1 September, after discounting Fofana, Chalobah and Nkunku 

Trouble is off that 21, James, Chilwell, Cucurella, Badiashile, Lavia, and Chuk have all missed a lot.

Edited January 30 by paulw66

[Dwmh]

14 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Why is 21 the cut off? Yes, the squad is lopsided towards youth, but not sure 21 year olds are counted, but not 20 year olds, or is 22 are and 21 not?

James, Chilwell, Gusto, Colwill, Cucurella, Maatsen, Silva, Disasi, Badiashile, Lavia, Caicedo, Enzo, Ugochukwu, Gallagher, Chukwemeaka, Palmer, Sterling, Madueke, Broja, Jackson, Mudryk

21 outfield players on 1 September, after discounting Fofana, Chalobah and Nkunku 

Trouble is off that 21, James, Chilwell, Cucurella, Badiashile, Lavia, and Chuk have all missed a lot.

Each club announces a PL squad around Sept 1st with an A list of up to 25 players.
A  B list consists of U21s with 2 years of experience in Prem (some U21s can only go on the A list like Gusto).
(u21 may mean 22 by end of season).  I'm using u21 for the squad list definition and o21 for those older.

It used to be easy to find the squad lists as given to the prem each season, I really can't find this years lists, no idea why.
As a result I have just counted the players we have that are not U21s.  (20 is my count i can't confirm it anywhere, and players like Gusto may be included in the A list despite being u21)

So the question is how many U21s can genuinely be considered as full members of the squad.
If it is Castledine then obviously not.  If it is Colvill, after a near full season at Brighton, then yes.

But if you got that route you also have to question the availability of the o21 players in the A list.  So GK4, Nkunku, Fofana and probably Chalobah should be removed from our initial 20 back in September (at least for the period prior to the Jan window).

Nobody wants to talk about having u21s taking a prime role in the squad - no surprise there.2

2 issues :

• do we know if they are good enough (we mostly don't, Lavia, Colvill yes, Big les, Carney, Gusto and even Palmer - we didn't know)
• will they be fit enough - quite possibly not (Lavia, Big les, Carney haven't been, Colvill mostly has been Gusto partially has been).  Unexpected injuries for u21s happen all the time.

In the end the contribution of U21s is going to be limited to 2 or 3 players (and picking more brings its own problems).
Every club has 1 U21 making a contribution.
 

So no - you can't excuse the club for having not enough o21s by saying we have the u21s can take up the slack.

And i'd really like to see someone try.
 

 

[Mark Kelly]

18 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

Each club announces a PL squad around Sept 1st with an A list of up to 25 players.
A  B list consists of U21s with 2 years of experience in Prem (some U21s can only go on the A list like Gusto).
(u21 may mean 22 by end of season).  I'm using u21 for the squad list definition and o21 for those older.

It used to be easy to find the squad lists as given to the prem each season, I really can't find this years lists, no idea why.
As a result I have just counted the players we have that are not U21s.  (20 is my count i can't confirm it anywhere, and players like Gusto may be included in the A list despite being u21)

So the question is how many U21s can genuinely be considered as full members of the squad.
If it is Castledine then obviously not.  If it is Colvill, after a near full season at Brighton, then yes.

But if you got that route you also have to question the availability of the o21 players in the A list.  So GK4, Nkunku, Fofana and probably Chalobah should be removed from our initial 20 back in September (at least for the period prior to the Jan window).

Nobody wants to talk about having u21s taking a prime role in the squad - no surprise there.2

2 issues :

• do we know if they are good enough (we mostly don't, Lavia, Colvill yes, Big les, Carney, Gusto and even Palmer - we didn't know)
• will they be fit enough - quite possibly not (Lavia, Big les, Carney haven't been, Colvill mostly has been Gusto partially has been).  Unexpected injuries for u21s happen all the time.

In the end the contribution of U21s is going to be limited to 2 or 3 players (and picking more brings its own problems).
Every club has 1 U21 making a contribution.
 

So no - you can't excuse the club for having not enough o21s by saying we have the u21s can take up the slack.

And i'd really like to see someone try.
 

 

All this from the bloke railing at the World when Conte wanted to sign experience. 

Funny old game. 

[Dwmh]

19 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

All this from the bloke railing at the World when Conte wanted to sign experience. 

Funny old game. 

I think you really never did read any posts in that 16/17 season.  I railed at the world in 15/16 because we went into the season with 21 senior players of which 3 were  crocked CFs in a season that included the CL.  I blamed JM for that.  I praised Conte for bringing in 6 senior players and of course the big difference was that the 21 players JM left us was an incredibly strong core which could be added to so easily.  It even included a decent CF.

I railed at Conte when he bought Bakayoko, Rudiger, Zappacosta and Barkley in summer 2017, none with great experience.
by the end of that season the old site had just me and (I think) xceleryx who were supporting Conte as a competent coach when all were trying to blame him.

But you'd rather read what other people said about me.