Transfer Talk Topic

[Dwmh]

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

Who is going to pay that much money for a mid PL table player.

Well brighton managed to sell Caicedo for something like that and they are mid-table.
oh

1 hour ago, ROTG said:

Maybe Todd & Co are hoping their rewards will be reaped after 2026 WC? 

And Fernandez has got to find a way to be sure he is picked for the 2026 WC.

It is not the club name that matters - Fernandez and Macallister were are Benfica and Brighton for 2022 WC.  It is being in a club doing well so you can look the part.

[Max Fowler]

Interesting

 

 

[Dwmh]

48 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Interesting

 

 

Hack A says they Do - Panic all around.

Hack B says they don't - everyone celebrates.

they are playing you Max.

[boratsbrother]

3 hours ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

So just looking at it from an FFP perspective, have I got this right:

We signed him for £106.8m on an 8 year contract

For the Summer 2024 transfer window, he will have been with us for 1.5 years

£106.8m divided by 8 year contract is £13.35m per year cost on the books

£13.35m multiplied by 1.5 years he has been with us is £20.025m

£106.8m minus £20.025m is £86.775m in total

So we would need to sell him for at least £86.775m to break even on the books?

Thanks for working that out.

We've done well to get the fees that we got for a lot of our players but we have to accept a loss every now and then, like all clubs have to do. So going by your figures, if we got £70m or even £60m that loss could easily be covered by the sale of a Chalobah or Matesen.  

Imho, teams have worked out  Enzo and single out his severe lack of pace as a weakeness that can be exploited. As good as Jorginho was at setting the tempo etc, his lack of pace also caused us problems even playing deep. Enzo looks even slower so even if played further back players will still run at him and go past him like he isn't there 😟 I just can't see anyway round this problem.

 

 

[Dwmh]

9 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Imho, teams have worked out  Enzo and single out his severe lack of pace as a weakeness that can be exploited.

Imho people are trying to dream up reasons to excuse their petty prejudices about individual players.
There is a similar creativity going on about Chilwell right now.

In a crap unbalanced team with no experience, most players look bad.  Especially when they finally get to play teams as good or better.  Pointing the finger at individuals doesn't help rational analysis - it might make people feel a bit better though.

[Ham]

3 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

Imho people are trying to dream up reasons to excuse their petty prejudices about individual players.
There is a similar creativity going on about Chilwell right now.

In a crap unbalanced team with no experience, most players look bad.  Especially when they finally get to play teams as good or better.  Pointing the finger at individuals doesn't help rational analysis - it might make people feel a bit better though.

Gave a like for the first paragraph.  

I don't agree it's a crap, unbalanced squad though. 

I swear it's more mental with a good few of these players.  The criticism is that they have little experience.  They're getting that in spades right now. 

I haven't given up on this group collectively growing a pair and turning it around although it'll be too late for anything good this season. 

 

[Max Fowler]

42 minutes ago, Dwmh said:

Hack A says they Do - Panic all around.

Hack B says they don't - everyone celebrates.

they are playing you Max.

Look Droy, the fact I am posting conflicting information shows precisely I am not being played.

I could easily not have shared that as it contradicts my view that we were in a bit of financial trouble and needed to sell players.

[Mark Kelly]

6 minutes ago, Ham said:

Gave a like for the first paragraph.  

I don't agree it's a crap, unbalanced squad though. 

I swear it's more mental with a good few of these players.  The criticism is that they have little experience.  They're getting that in spades right now. 

I haven't given up on this group collectively growing a pair and turning it around although it'll be too late for anything good this season. 

 

Pretty much my thoughts too , I've said for ages that the players are better than the performances , and I don't care how lopsided a squad is and how lacking in leadership they are , a decent coach finds a way of playing that gets the best out of the side , win lose or draw and if there are no leaders then they lead instead and lay out a framework that the players have to adhere too.

We are not seeing this at all , players are routinely being shoehorned into unfavourable positions as the coach has "reasons" 

Just one thing illustrates this to me , everyone knows that the best way of attacking is to create overloads on the pitch , we saw it in spades against Liverpool where whenever Caicedo had the ball he had four players closing him down and shutting down the passing routes out . 

We have either Chilwell or Mudryk up against a midfielder a right back and a centre half every game and Poch hasn't addressed it since game one of the season . 

The players are an issue but they are not THE issue. 

It's the coaching or lack of it. 

[Ham]

3 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Pretty much my thoughts too , I've said for ages that the players are better than the performances , and I don't care how lopsided a squad is and how lacking in leadership they are , a decent coach finds a way of playing that gets the best out of the side , win lose or draw and if there are no leaders then they lead instead and lay out a framework that the players have to adhere too.

We are not seeing this at all , players are routinely being shoehorned into unfavourable positions as the coach has "reasons" 

Just one thing illustrates this to me , everyone knows that the best way of attacking is to create overloads on the pitch , we saw it in spades against Liverpool where whenever Caicedo had the ball he had four players closing him down and shutting down the passing routes out . 

We have either Chilwell or Mudryk up against a midfielder a right back and a centre half every game and Poch hasn't addressed it since game one of the season . 

The players are an issue but they are not THE issue. 

It's the coaching or lack of it. 

So are you suggesting that this is on Poch?

🤔

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, Ham said:

So are you suggesting that this is on Poch?

🤔

I'm on the fence to be honest.

Nothing would please me more than us beating Villa five nil and Poch being lauded as our saviour, I just want him to be better.

[Dwmh]

34 minutes ago, Ham said:

I don't agree it's a crap, unbalanced squad though. 

I swear it's more mental with a good few of these players.  The criticism is that they have little experience.  They're getting that in spades right now. 

I haven't given up on this group collectively growing a pair and turning it around although it'll be too late for anything good this season. 

15 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Pretty much my thoughts too , I've said for ages that the players are better than the performances , and I don't care how lopsided a squad is and how lacking in leadership they are , a decent coach finds a way of playing that gets the best out of the side , win lose or draw and if there are no leaders then they lead instead and lay out a framework that the players have to adhere too.

Me too - my mantra remains - player prices is better than  player quality is better than  player performances > team peformance > chances created - chances against > *actual GD > points achieved

Of all those issues, over paying for players is probably the least problem.  Quality isn't a problem at all.

I agree the side  lacks leadership - but the whole club lacks leadership.
JT, Cech, DD, Lampard, Maka, Mikel, Ivanovic, Ash, Anelka, Cahill, Gallas, Carvalho, Kante, Rudiger Azpi Silva, Kovacic, Jorginho. (and feel free to add many more)

These players overlapped, - we had 5 or more of them in every RA team.  CA had about 10 of them.  Every RA team, even when we had a squad nearly as small in o21s (15/16) as now.   But all we have today is Silva.

And you can do the same on the coaching side, the Sports director side, and the Medical side.

That is where the big imbalance is.
It is related to the Age unbalance, and it is related to the contract issues.
But it is in additional to the experience imbalance, additional to the medical failure.
Most of all it is a leadership imbalance.
And no point in aiming at individuals or Poch or Silva

 

* Luton apart  🙂

 

[My Blood Is Blue]

Enzo agent has come out and said Enzo doesn’t want to leave:

"Enzo Fernández's desire is to be on the team and succeed . We don't meet with any clubs or try to talk to any clubs. We know what the player's desire is . Obviously he would like the club to be in another position, but that will be achieved with work. The player has no intention of leaving. The leaders were very clear with this project. It is a plan that was going to be difficult at the beginning because new and young players were going to arrive, but when the pieces of the team fit together well, Chelsea was going to move forward."

[Morgs]

On 07/02/2024 at 14:45, Mark Kelly said:

Pretty much my thoughts too , I've said for ages that the players are better than the performances , and I don't care how lopsided a squad is and how lacking in leadership they are , a decent coach finds a way of playing that gets the best out of the side , win lose or draw and if there are no leaders then they lead instead and lay out a framework that the players have to adhere too.

We are not seeing this at all , players are routinely being shoehorned into unfavourable positions as the coach has "reasons" 

Just one thing illustrates this to me , everyone knows that the best way of attacking is to create overloads on the pitch , we saw it in spades against Liverpool where whenever Caicedo had the ball he had four players closing him down and shutting down the passing routes out . 

We have either Chilwell or Mudryk up against a midfielder a right back and a centre half every game and Poch hasn't addressed it since game one of the season . 

The players are an issue but they are not THE issue. 

It's the coaching or lack of it. 

Spot on mate, couldnt agree more.

[Max Fowler]

” It would be foolish in many cases to dismiss the talent that Chelsea have assembled purely because the team’s Premier League results have been underwhelming. More pertinent is whether the bigger Boehly-Clearlake project — turning the first-team squad into an investment portfolio of promising young footballers on ultra-long contracts — is fundamentally flawed.

The belief underpinning the transfer strategy of Chelsea’s owners is that youth in football is underrated. This is why they have repeatedly paid premiums for potential rather than proven quality, a break from conventional wisdom. It has set them on a path that no club has walked before, one that demands they develop young talent in their first team while competing consistently at the highest level.

Can it be done? Some at Chelsea might point to the Villa win, achieved by a starting XI with an average age of 22.8, as cause for optimism. Many others outside Stamford Bridge will be more inclined to cite their prolonged slide into Premier League mediocrity, an increasingly toxic home atmosphere and many young players seemingly struggling under the weight of lofty expectations, as a compelling body of evidence against the Boehly-Clearlake vision.”

https://archive.ph/0fwAn

[jasonb]

Last window the rumour was we wanted £50m for Gallagher and that got me thinking.

I think we need to recoup about £60m to be compliant with FFP in June.

I was recently thinking it might be Enzo and Sterling that move on though now following Enzo's performance against Villa think Enzo will stay unless his form drops off a cliff between now and June.

So my current thinking is Sterling and possibly Mudryk.

Fulham have Willian, what's the bet that Barcelona come in for Willian and Fulham take Sterling off our hands for a cut price deal?

If we let Mudryk go try and put in a resale percentage unless of course it a bigger club.

 

[Max Fowler]

Ultimately I completely disagree with @Mark Kelly that Poch is the fundamental issue. The biggest issue is we have an inexperienced squad with some talented-ish players but also a complete lack of leaders. A squad that we have paid far too much money for with only Palmer looking like the real deal. Poch is underperforming but no one would get Champions League football with this group. Priority one should be to add experienced players, priority two to get rid of Poch (assuming our DoFs are staying).

[Max Fowler]

6 minutes ago, jasonb said:

Last window the rumour was we wanted £50m for Gallagher and that got me thinking.

I think we need to recoup about £60m to be compliant with FFP in June.

I was recently thinking it might be Enzo and Sterling that move on though now following Enzo's performance against Villa think Enzo will stay unless his form drops off a cliff between now and June.

So my current thinking is Sterling and possibly Mudryk.

Fulham have Willian, what's the bet that Barcelona come in for Willian and Fulham take Sterling off our hands for a cut price deal?

If we let Mudryk go try and put in a resale percentage unless of course it a bigger club.

 

We should loan Mudryk IMO. His value has tanked and he might be able to pick it up abroad. I could see Sterling going to Liverpool, especially if Salah leaves.

[Max Fowler]

11 minutes ago, jasonb said:

Last window the rumour was we wanted £50m for Gallagher and that got me thinking.

I think we need to recoup about £60m to be compliant with FFP in June.

I was recently thinking it might be Enzo and Sterling that move on though now following Enzo's performance against Villa think Enzo will stay unless his form drops off a cliff between now and June.

So my current thinking is Sterling and possibly Mudryk.

Fulham have Willian, what's the bet that Barcelona come in for Willian and Fulham take Sterling off our hands for a cut price deal?

If we let Mudryk go try and put in a resale percentage unless of course it a bigger club.

 

Also I don’t see how we sell Gallagher by 30 June with the Euros on. Hopefully selling Lukaku to Saudi will close the deficit.

[Max Fowler]

🤮

 

 

[paulw66]

14 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 

Can it be done? Some at Chelsea might point to the Villa win, achieved by a starting XI with an average age of 22.8, as cause for optimism.

That, in itself is extraordinary. I didn't realise it was that young, but I guess you take Silva (and Sterling) out of the regular team, and you really see how young it is.

Not only to win, but to dominate / control a game against a much more experience side, does show a big cause for optimism (IMO)

14 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Many others outside Stamford Bridge will be more inclined to cite their prolonged slide into Premier League mediocrity,

Trouble is, there is very little room for patience in the modern world / game.

The strategy is obvious. What is also obvious, is that it can't / wont happen quickly (irrespective of the coach)

4 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

 The biggest issue is we have an inexperienced squad with some talented-ish players but also a complete lack of leaders. 

The players are good players, I have no doubts. But they're young and not consistent enough. If you think back to some of the great young players we have had in the last 20+ years, they have all been surrounded by excellent, senior players to help them through.

The only leader we have is too old. 

11 minutes ago, jasonb said:

 

Fulham have Willian, what's the bet that Barcelona come in for Willian and Fulham take Sterling off our hands for a cut price deal?

 

none of this happen, for various reasons. Namely. Barca are not going to sign a 36yo Willian, and Fulham wont be able to afford Sterling's wages, even if he wanted to go there.

[Mark Kelly]

30 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Ultimately I completely disagree with @Mark Kelly that Poch is the fundamental issue. The biggest issue is we have an inexperienced squad with some talented-ish players but also a complete lack of leaders. A squad that we have paid far too much money for with only Palmer looking like the real deal. Poch is underperforming but no one would get Champions League football with this group. Priority one should be to add experienced players, priority two to get rid of Poch (assuming our DoFs are staying).

Really?

I must have misunderstood the seven hundred posts saying the same thing before then. 

[Max Fowler]

1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

Really?

I must have misunderstood the seven hundred posts saying the same thing before then. 

Right back at ya 😜

[jasonb]

2 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Also I don’t see how we sell Gallagher by 30 June with the Euros on. Hopefully selling Lukaku to Saudi will close the deficit.

That would be great if it happened, somehow don't think it will.

[Dwmh]

2 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Ultimately I completely disagree with @Mark Kelly that Poch is the fundamental issue. The biggest issue is we have an inexperienced squad with some talented-ish players but also a complete lack of leaders. 

leaders, experience, stubborness, depth the lot.  
A squad as bare as the 15/16 squad but with just 3 or 4 with the experience and hardness 14 of that squad had.

A quite incredible Fxxx up by the club.  I don't know exactly who is to blame, manager surely plays a warning role at least, but 90% of our immediate team problems are the squad.
Unfortunately we have a lot of medium and longer term problems with other things that may be even more damaging.

[chiswickblue]

Judging on the clear club briefings, they are trying to recoup funds by selling in the summer some of the following: Hall (if he's met the clauses in his loan deal), Maatsen, Broja, Chalobah and Gallagher. Without even going into the wisdom of this, or the impact it will have on the academy, the strategy is clearly to use academy player sales to offset the amortisation already incurred and potentially add another big signing like Osimhen.

I don't see many more big incomings and outgoings, unless we get a mega offer for an expendable player. The year of consolidation is upon us...