Transfer Talk Topic

[chara]

4 minutes ago, Max Fowler said:

Don't bring @chara into this! He's always been a diplomat at heart.

Honestly it's incredible Mark how you can just say these players who won big trophies for us were either not that great, or we couldn't do anything to keep them. Absolutely astounding logic given our position.

😁Is that good or bad Max?

In fairness I am on board with the guys mentioned as related to The Poch,

Again FWIW I always read your posts with interest and without differing opinions and voices on here it would be just a bland "Letters To The Editor" forum....post as you feel,,,even your most vocal "opponent" would miss your input.

[xceleryx]

Wasn't expecting to come here and read the idea that we should've built around Kovacic. 

A man who didn't start more than 23 league matches for us during his entire period here, who often missed periods through injury, and by large has a skillset that leans more towards being a excellent supporting player opposed to being "the man". And that ignores all the other relevant factors others have already put forward re age, contract situation, etc. 

I like Kova, big supporter of him and felt he was often misused (particularly under Sarri), but like with many others we moved on from his time here had naturally come to its conclusion given the circumstances at the time. One decent performance at Man City doesn't magically change that. The truth is, he's been nothing more than a rotational option there since arriving and his performances so-so. 

He looked so disinterested last season when we needed senior figures like himself to step up, not really what you want around a group of young players moving forward. 

[RDCW]

22 hours ago, Max Fowler said:

Honestly @RDCW you are either being disingenuous / don't get it, or we have a different definition of "going for people":

There is a categorical difference between saying:
"Your argument is nonsense!" and "You are so naieve it must be your age"

The criticism is aimed at the argument - not the person making it.

I absolutely respect every person on here, their right to think and have views. But I will happily tear their arguments to shreds unless the mods tell me to calm down. 

But again - if I think someone's argument is baloney I am saying NOTHING about the person making it. Clever, brilliant and beautiful people have nonsense opinions all the time.

Max, when you grow up a little perhaps you will understand that your aggressive language and tone is neither persuasive nor acceptable. You may also come to the realisation that going for someone's arguments the way you do is as disrespectful as directly insulting them. Your assumption that your arguments are solid enough to "tear down" the opinions of others is frankly fallacious and silly. I am embarrassed for you. When you stop flailing against imaginary positions and ascribing false statements to other posters, in short show a bit of respect and intellectual integrity, perhaps the rest of us might take you seriously. Until then you are just a clown.

[RDCW]

6 minutes ago, RDCW said:

Max, when you grow up a little perhaps you will understand that your aggressive language and tone is neither persuasive nor acceptable. You may also come to the realisation that going for someone's arguments the way you do is as disrespectful as directly insulting them. Your assumption that your arguments are solid enough to "tear down" the opinions of others is frankly fallacious and silly. I am embarrassed for you. When you stop flailing against imaginary positions and ascribing false statements to other posters, in short show a bit of respect and intellectual integrity, perhaps the rest of us might take you seriously. Until then you are just a clown.

I see that you have threatened 2 members with not responding/debating with them. I'm sure they won't lose any sleep about that, but all this is unnecessary: as I have already told you, if you adopt a disrespectful tone then disrespect will be mirrored back to you. As far as "being alone" is concerned, if you are it is not because your central positions are different from everyone else, it is because you always refer to other members in a  disparaging manner. Stop this nonsense so that we can return to a civilised debate.

[boratsbrother]

re the argument about how greatl Kova and Jorginho were for us.

The real decline started to set in when Kova and Jorginho joined. 

Up until their arrival we had been seriel winners  starting almost every single season as serious title and CL contenders.  During all their years together the only proper trophies  we were the  CL and Europa League. Not once did we come close to ever putting in a title challenge finishing miles behind the winners year in year out. On top of that we started to lose way more of the big games and ofen looked completely outclassed by City. Started the losing domestic finals streak. Completely destroyed the midfield as any kind of creative and attacking threat. Furthermore, neither of them were up to much as defensive midfielders either. 

Last night our midfielders won us another game when all around them was pretty shite. Still  huge room for improvement with them, but last night was another game we would have lost had we had the one goal a season oldies in their place. At least we see some action and entertainment from the current lot, unlike the other two who bored me to tears week in week out year after year.

 

[Holymoly]

I'm really starting to get wound up by the media rubbing its hands in glee over the idea that we need to find £100m or else fall foul of PSR and that we'll have to sell the likes of Conor Gallagher at a huge discount and probably still won't make it.

Bollocks

Lewis Hall is on an obligation to buy at Newcastle and Ian Maatsen is really liked by Dortmund and so will end up probably signing full time too so surely we are at least 2/3 of the way to £100m already before you even start thinking about the likes of Zyech, Lukaku, Broja or Arrizabalaga. Just getting those wages off the books will have a huge effect on profitability next year as well.

Personally I don't think we are in any danger of being forced to sell players we would rather keep. We have such a stock of players surplus to requirement we have plenty of options. Of course the problem we will have is the lack of funds moving forward to plug holes like a striker. Gone are the days of the £100m signing while we languish in midtable and out of Europe. That said I don't see too many of the current squad being up to the task of a Champions League semi final any time soon anyway so we need to seriously re-evaluate the structure of the squad and prioritise a  little experience.

[My Blood Is Blue]

39 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

I'm really starting to get wound up by the media rubbing its hands in glee over the idea that we need to find £100m or else fall foul of PSR and that we'll have to sell the likes of Conor Gallagher at a huge discount and probably still won't make it.

Bollocks

Lewis Hall is on an obligation to buy at Newcastle and Ian Maatsen is really liked by Dortmund and so will end up probably signing full time too so surely we are at least 2/3 of the way to £100m already before you even start thinking about the likes of Zyech, Lukaku, Broja or Arrizabalaga. Just getting those wages off the books will have a huge effect on profitability next year as well.

Personally I don't think we are in any danger of being forced to sell players we would rather keep. We have such a stock of players surplus to requirement we have plenty of options. Of course the problem we will have is the lack of funds moving forward to plug holes like a striker. Gone are the days of the £100m signing while we languish in midtable and out of Europe. That said I don't see too many of the current squad being up to the task of a Champions League semi final any time soon anyway so we need to seriously re-evaluate the structure of the squad and prioritise a  little experience.

Yep, completely agree, but the media love to create a bit of panic and also love nothing more than bashing Chelsea even with things that aren't based in any real reality. It's easy headline writing and they'll keep doing it until Gallagher signs a new contract.

[paulw66]

19 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

 

The real decline started to set in when Kova and Jorginho joined. 

 

 

I mean both players now play for teams that ARE challenging seriously for the league. So your equation doesn't really work.

During their time at the club we never had a top class CF. That's the actual reason why we never properly challenged for the league. 

 

[paulw66]

52 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

I'm really starting to get wound up by the media rubbing its hands in glee over the idea that we need to find £100m or else fall foul of PSR and that we'll have to sell the likes of Conor Gallagher at a huge discount and probably still won't make it.

Bollocks

Lewis Hall is on an obligation to buy at Newcastle and Ian Maatsen is really liked by Dortmund and so will end up probably signing full time too so surely we are at least 2/3 of the way to £100m already before you even start thinking about the likes of Zyech, Lukaku, Broja or Arrizabalaga. Just getting those wages off the books will have a huge effect on profitability next year as well.

Personally I don't think we are in any danger of being forced to sell players we would rather keep. We have such a stock of players surplus to requirement we have plenty of options. Of course the problem we will have is the lack of funds moving forward to plug holes like a striker. Gone are the days of the £100m signing while we languish in midtable and out of Europe. That said I don't see too many of the current squad being up to the task of a Champions League semi final any time soon anyway so we need to seriously re-evaluate the structure of the squad and prioritise a  little experience.

Modern click bait journalism.

Writing an article explaining that Chelsea can sell Broja, Maatsen, Hall and Chalobah, none of whom would directly impact the standard of the first team, just isn't interesting enough

[chrisb]

And now they’re throwing in the “Colwill being lined up for PSG switch”. Another academy player who would give us good money if he were to be sold but again an easy target due to him being an academy player. 

[jasonb]

3 hours ago, Holymoly said:

I'm really starting to get wound up by the media rubbing its hands in glee over the idea that we need to find £100m or else fall foul of PSR and that we'll have to sell the likes of Conor Gallagher at a huge discount and probably still won't make it.

Bollocks

Lewis Hall is on an obligation to buy at Newcastle and Ian Maatsen is really liked by Dortmund and so will end up probably signing full time too so surely we are at least 2/3 of the way to £100m already before you even start thinking about the likes of Zyech, Lukaku, Broja or Arrizabalaga. Just getting those wages off the books will have a huge effect on profitability next year as well.

Personally I don't think we are in any danger of being forced to sell players we would rather keep. We have such a stock of players surplus to requirement we have plenty of options. Of course the problem we will have is the lack of funds moving forward to plug holes like a striker. Gone are the days of the £100m signing while we languish in midtable and out of Europe. That said I don't see too many of the current squad being up to the task of a Champions League semi final any time soon anyway so we need to seriously re-evaluate the structure of the squad and prioritise a  little experience.

Hope you are right yet for several seasons we have struggled to sell our loaned players.

Assuming that trend continues then we will need to let some of our  current first XI leave.

Do we know when the authorities tell us how much we need to recoup by 30th June to avoid harsh penalties?

If it is a short period then you have your work cut out to get the deals done promptly and as this is public knowledge it will be  a buyers market. 

Not pleasant and accordingly the papers will make the most of it, as that is their role and function and hyperbole sells.

Edited March 1 by jasonb

[Ham]

2 hours ago, jasonb said:

Hope you are right yet for several seasons we have struggled to sell our loaned players.

Assuming that trend continues then we will need to let some of our  current first XI leave.

Do we know when the authorities tell us how much we need to recoup by 30th June to avoid harsh penalties?

If it is a short period then you have your work cut out to get the deals done promptly and as this is public knowledge it will be  a buyers market. 

Not pleasant and accordingly the papers will make the most of it, as that is their role and function and hyperbole sells.

The club insist that they only need to sell players to fund purchases (Osimhen etc) and not to comply with P&S rules.

Maybe they're bluffing to avoid being held to ransom, who knows?

It wouldn't take the financial guys at other PL teams too long to consider our turnover during the relevant reporting period and then look at incomings and outgoings. 

Hell, one of us could do that with the right motivation.

 

[boratsbrother]

5 hours ago, paulw66 said:

I mean both players now play for teams that ARE challenging seriously for the league. So your equation doesn't really work.

During their time at the club we never had a top class CF. That's the actual reason why we never properly challenged for the league. 

 

Both of the teams would be challenging with or without Kova and Jorginho!  They were both low or medium proved squad players, not star players who make their teams better.  If anything, City have looked weaker this season both in defence and attack.

As for us not having a top striker when they were at Chelsea. We still haven't got one yet our midfield is now looking far more dangerous and creative without them clogging up places. 

Imho, besides  Pogba, Kova is the second most overrated player of the last 20 years of the Premiership.

[Ham]

Would it be possible for someone particularly smart and patient on here to take the time to scratch a metaphorical itch for me?

I want to know how much money has been spent in the TBSD era.

Then I want that split into;

1) Players bought specifically for the current first team squad

2) Players bought for the future including players still with their previous clubs until a certain date, loans and young academy players.

Then I want confirmation as to how much we've recouped from sales during that period.

I'm keen to debunk the"billion pound team" myth once and for all.

[Mark Kelly]

Just now, Ham said:

Would it be possible for someone particularly smart and patient on here to take the time to scratch a metaphorical itch for me?

I want to know how much money has been spent in the TBSD era.

Then I want that split into;

1) Players bought specifically for the current first team squad

2) Players bought for the future including players still with their previous clubs until a certain date, loans and young academy players.

Then I want confirmation as to how much we've recouped from sales during that period.

I'm keen to debunk the"billion pound team" myth once and for all.

I can't but what I can say is that after outgoings our net spend this season was around £135m  from memory which is a fair bit lower than the £1B used as a stick to beat us with 

[Sciatika]

You could try transfermarkt here. You can look at arrivals and departures for each season and add them up. I am unsure how you would disambiguate players for the future vs. the first team.

[paulw66]

59 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

Both of the teams would be challenging with or without Kova and Jorginho! 

I get that, but they were far from the problem when they were here.

59 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

 

As for us not having a top striker when they were at Chelsea. We still haven't got one yet our midfield is now looking far more dangerous and creative without them clogging up places. 

 

Is it? Far more dangerous, and further down the table.

I don't disagree with the decision to move them on at this stage of their careers, but I completely disagree with the idea that they were the problem when they were here. 

 

[Backbiter]

46 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

You could try transfermarkt here. You can look at arrivals and departures for each season and add them up. I am unsure how you would disambiguate players for the future vs. the first team.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/highest-income-in-a-single-transfer-window-chelsea-set-to-break-monaco-rsquo-s-record/view/news/425224

A large sum that gets left out of our player-sales income is the sell-on fee for Livramento, which could be as much as £15m

[Backbiter]

Quote

according to new data from transfermarkt, Chelsea have the highest transfer income since 2014-15, with £1.13bn made from shipping out stars

Quote

Only three other English teams joined Chelsea in the top 20, with Arsenal and Manchester United not even ranking in the top 30 teams with the highest transfer income.

Manchester City were 13th, having sold £678m worth of talent, while Liverpool ranked 15th after bringing in £631m in transfer income.

 

Edited March 1 by Backbiter

[Backbiter]

No English club can match our income from selling home-grown players: 347m euros 2014-23

https://football-observatory.com/WeeklyPost446

[Ham]

Ok so rudimentary enquires show;

Bought for the current first team squad and not subsequently re-sold = £845.20m 

Less Sales = £270m

Net cost of first team squad purchases under TBSD = £575.20m

Humour me but take away Lavia, Nkunku and Fofana, who we have barely been able to use and we are actually benefitting from £399.2m net worth of purchases under TBSD.  Not bad for a PL squad. 

One billion pound squad myth debunked. 

 

 

 

[boratsbrother]

51 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

I get that, but they were far from the problem when they were here.

Is it? Far more dangerous, and further down the table.

I don't disagree with the decision to move them on at this stage of their careers, but I completely disagree with the idea that they were the problem when they were here. 

 

I'm not saying they were the only problens, but imho they were most definitely a significant problem which had held the team back for years.

As for us being lower in the table. I think Stevie Wonder can see what has been out biggest problem lately.  We once  had Rudi, Azpi, Christensen, Alonso a younger Silva and James and Chilwell playing a lot more games. Contrast that group to a now a very old Silva, James hardly playing, Chilwell injured a lot. The inexperienced Gusto having to step in for James. Inexperienced Colwill playing out of position. Cucu. Disasi instead of a Rudi or Christensen.  Along with that we have seen one ridiculous unforced error after unforced error costing us goals. Awful marking for corners and free kicks. All of this has seen a sharp rise in goals conceeded and points lost because of them. None of those problems have anything whatsoever to do with Jorginho and Kova not being here!

[paulw66]

19 minutes ago, boratsbrother said:

None of those problems have anything whatsoever to do with Jorginho and Kova not being here!

Yes and no. 

We tended to control games better when they were here. Possession wise. Which takes the pressure off the defence.

Anyway, let's leave it there as I don't suppose we will agree! Which is fine.

[Holymoly]

2 hours ago, boratsbrother said:

Both of the teams would be challenging with or without Kova and Jorginho!  They were both low or medium proved squad players, not star players who make their teams better.  If anything, City have looked weaker this season both in defence and attack.

You could argue that none of the players we ended up selling for good money have made any impression at their new clubs.

Havertz, Mount, Kovacic, Koulibaly, Pulisic, RLC...total £230m. Ka-ching! Thank you very much.

[paulw66]

16 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

You could argue that none of the players we ended up selling for good money have made any impression at their new clubs.

Havertz, Mount, Kovacic, Koulibaly, Pulisic, RLC...total £230m. Ka-ching! Thank you very much.

Would agree with the domestic ones, but Pulisic and RLC have done very well at Milan. Less physical league helping a couple of players who were a bit fragile